Friday, July 27, 2012

The Updated "Manson File"

Charlie up front in the McNeil Island prison band
I have finally started reading the updated version of "The Manson File."

Thanks Grump and thanks Patty!

I can not possibly type up the entire 988 pages. I decided to share some of the things I found bizarre in the book periodically. I say periodically because my other job, the paying one, takes up most of my time lately. I was thinking, remember when The Colonel had his minions type up the entire Paul Watkins book? Maybe he can send those minions my way to take over the typing.

Right now I am up to page 41.  

According to this book, Alvin "Creepy" Karpis took Charlie under his wing in a Washington State prison where they both served time.  Karpis sent a letter to his buddy Frankie Carbo most likely to ask Carbo to keep a look out for Charlie since he was going to be transferred to McNeil Island where Carbo was already serving time. Carbo was a member of the Genovese crime family.

"Less well-known to this day are Carbo's business dealings with a then obscure Los Angeles syndicate player and hopelessly indebted gambling addict named Leno LaBianca.  Among other things, LaBianca was the director of a decidedly shady enterprise known as The First Bank of Hollywood.  The Los Angles Department didn't beat around the bush when they described Mr. LaBianca's financial institution as a "front for hoodlum money."

Eviliz has never read that any where, has anyone else?

"Very early on, the perennial links between American show biz and the underworld left their greasy finger prints all over this case.  That these tell-tale traces have been overlooked in the years since La Bianca's much publicized but still mysterious demise is no accident."

"To begin to get some sense of the previously hidden level that's been obscured under more familiar accounts, a quick game of six degrees of separation may prove an illuminating digression.  For other Carbo connections to coming events in our parolee's (Charlie) life also unfolded around that same time.  For example, it was thanks to Carbo's drastic removal of Bugsy Siegel from his post as the East Coast syndicate's movie industry overseer that a Mafia lawyer named Sidney Korshak moved into the power vacuum opened up by Bugsy's death.  Shortly before our convict's (Charlie again) release from Terminal Island, it was consiglere Korshak- a power-broker so potent he was known by friends and enemies alike as "The Myth"- who pulled strings to see that Robert Evans, a young actor since proven to have maintained close mob connections throughout his career took over Paramount Studios. 

That dream factory's glossy product had not infrequently been funded with mob blood money.  Evans, in turn, helped establish the career of a gifted Polish exile director named Roman Polanski.  Robert Evans produced Polanski's first Hollywood hit, Rosemary's baby. Probably unknown to Polanski, that film was financed with funds, some have surmised, procured from sources directly connected to the Genovese Family activities then taking place in New York. We will come to examine how these mammoth criminal enterprises later collided and intertwined with our subjects (Charlie) considerably more modest outlaw operation."

So begins the Charlie/Mob/Hollywood/LaBianca connection.

Little known fact, Eviliz went to Catholic high school in CT with two girls from the Genovese clan. I remember when we were about 15, someone late at night threw a molotov cocktail into the attic window of their brick home causing the roof and attic along with their bushes and front lawn to burn quickly. Any doubts we had in school as to if they were really mafia were quickly erased.

Evilz also had beef with one of those Genovese girls, the one in a grade ahead of me. She always made it clear on daily basis she wanted to kick my ass because I got to date the few boys in our school and she didn't. I don't think the boys would not date her because she was Mafia. I know it was because she was fat and ugly with a blonde afro.

Stay tuned for more.

Eviliz circa 1983






37 comments:

starship said...

It appears you haven't read the LaBianca Homocide reports which are readily available online. It's probably a good idea. The cops made the connection early on that Leno had been on the board of directors of a Hollywood bank backed by 'hood' money. Some members of the board and employees were convicted of a check kiting scheme in 1968 or so.

That said, there is a lot of smoke, but very little fire as it turns out. Either the cops gave up or there was no connection to be found, or else Helter Skelter ruled the day.

william marshall said...

Off to another fine start in my opinion eviliz great job great site everyone seems solid people even Col. Scott hopefully don't remain
On your shit list have alota respect for your knowledge and excellent blog. Bound to lock horns from time to time over opinions and views once again this isn't my life just great entertainment peace to all from Jersey shore

bobot420 said...

This is all so interesting. I am very intrigued and want to hear more. I may just have to get my own copy. :)

Farflung said...

I think many of these ‘connections’ with various criminal enterprises are the result of a heavily skewed bell curve. There are a few people (relatively speaking) on each end of the curve with the balance being buried deep within the 99th percentile, who go to a W2 job, 9-5, M-F, for life. Of course this bland characterization sparks anger in the hearts which it most certainly applies, who plan vacations to run concurrent with three day weekends and obsess about chinch.

Remember Bonnie Lee Bakley? She was the woman who Robert Blake was accused of murdering. Blake who played a convict in the movie ‘In Cold Blood’, based upon a book written by Truman Capote, who interviewed Bobby Beausoleil which was posted in this very blog four days ago. My goodness the insidious hand of the Manson Family can be traced here as well.

Back to the, not so beguiling, Bonnie Lee Bakley. Apparently she was pregnant and it was a celebrities’ child. Can you say Cha Ching? Well she could, and was extremely happy to announce her condition to the father….. Christian Brando. Then that pesky DNA test revealed that the father was actually Robert Blake. Oops, an honest mistake when it comes to back tracking the likely date of conception and the vast pool of potential fathers, which happen to include a pair of Hollywood names.

If I was to be a cynical and crass sort of person, I may arrive at the conclusion that Bonnie Lee was a passed around, ‘get over’ girl, who knew her fifteen minutes were up last week. The odds of her being with Brando and Blake were increased because she was always next in line, and made it her life’s mission to place herself there and in front of anyone else meeting her criteria.

I would imagine the odds of meeting and dare I say, establishing an intimate relationship of forbidden love with someone connected to The Mob, would be greatly increased if the environment was a prison versus a Starbucks or VFW. So the corollary of establishing a mob connection in prison appears less impressive. In fact I would be more amazed to hear about a convict that didn’t meet a mob associate.

The next step is where I believe the leap in logic may occur. Once a set of circumstances is established, the previously narrow orbit expands until it touches another set of circumstances with similar characteristics. A mob run or influenced banking operation with LaBianca as an officer and Manson who made a mob connection in prison. Although each may be true, the overlap of these conditions is little more compelling than the coincidence of both men also wearing pants or speaking English. The gangster stuff is exciting because I’m one of the above mentioned W2 people, and have time to ponder these things while trying to control this damn chinch.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Starship and I, have been studying the Leno/Carbo gambling-debt angle for years.
I was particularly intrigued by this topic, for a very long stretch.

If I’m welcome here… please allow me to share.

Carbo is mentioned in Sander’s book, as well as Gorightly’s.
Those two books, I’m sure of… there may be others.

From Gorightly:
"At the time of his death--it has been alleged--Leno was in debt to the tune of $30,000 to Frankie Carbo's organization“.
(Although) I’m told Gorightly’s source for that information, was Bill Nelson.

Basically, the theory goes, that Leno (like most gamblers) had borrowed money from places, other than the bank.
Most claim, it was the Italian Mob, and Frank Carbo specifically (whom Leno borrowed from).
Hence… Carbo "contracted" a "hit" on Leno, (outsourced, if you will… LOL) to Manson... when Leno became a dead-beat for his debts.
Bottom line: Carbo “employed” Manson, to teach Leno a lesson.
This is all just “in-theory”, of course.

The “Pro’s“, to this theory:
1) Some authors have it, that Manson interfaced with Carbo in prison at one point… with Karpis acting as the go-between.
Hence, the two inmates (Manson and Carbo) “knew of” each other.
Sorry… On the spot, I can’t remember where I’ve read that… but, I’ve read it.

2) Leno’s debts were certainly large, and his debts are specifically outlined in the homicide report, down to the dollar (as Starship suggested).
That fact, we have in spades, as TLB researchers.

3) The assertion that, “the bank where Leno was an executive, was backed by hoodlum money”, is also stated specifically in the homicide report.
Again… that’s a fact, we have in spades, as TLB researchers.
“Italian hoodlums“, is implied.

The big "Con" or loophole to this theory, which always dogs everyone (including me):

Why would the professional Mafia contract a "professional hit" with a bunch of hippies?
A complete bloodbath, with foolishness left behind... and the man's wife (Rosemary) being killed to boot... just doesn't fit the mafia's methods.
The mafia doesn’t do “business“ with hippie kids.
That’s the big bug-a-boo, to this theory.

As an aside:
Carbo was born in 1904... his hey-day was in the 1930's and 40's.
So, he was no spring chicken.
One thing that does match well, is that Carbo, was big on organized gambling, and gambling schemes.
Specifically, he was involved heavily with boxing schemes.

In 1961, Carbo was sentenced to 25 years… charged with conspiracy and extortion against the National Boxing Association.
I’m not sure how many years Carbo actually served… but, I believe he was (likely) still in prison during the late 60’s.
The nearest I’ve found (to a release date) is that “Carbo was granted early parole due to poor health”.
I’m not sure when specifically, he was released.
Of course, either way… Mafioso’s certainly conduct “business” from jail.
He died in 1976.

More here: http://www.lsb3.com/2011/06/back-to-leno.html

Peace!

Farflung said...

It looks quite probable that Leno LaBianca had some ‘unconventional’ debt service as LynyrdSkynyrdBand has outlined and sourced. These are data points which are virtually measured with a micrometer and should be reliable.

Involving Manson can include several approaches. In a vacuum, with Leno and Charles existing as the result of bad debt and outsourced labor, it appears plausible. All else being equal, with these narrow parameters, the possibility of Charles having a contract on Leno is a possibility.

Out of the vacuum and with some boring statistics, this appears far less probable to me. Not only would Manson have a mob contract on Leno, he also just happened to visit and party in the house next door to Leno’s…. future home. Oo-eee-oo.

That sort of shatters the statistical base in itself. Then there are the Hinman, Cielo and Shea murders which need to be reconciled and synchronized into the mob related LaBianca hit. With each additional variable, the ‘Rubik’s Cube’ of requirements, gains another layer of complexity.

GrumpFromPahrump said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
hippichick40 said...

Wow, check out that feathered hair! You look like such a wholesome, ladylike lass. That's ginger ale in that glass, I'm sure.

Farflung said...

GrumpFromPahrump,

I guess I shall wait with bated breath as this saga detangles.

I think the mob element has the same effect to this story, as the artifacts in a Planet Hollywood, has on customers. I listened to a good five minute description of what it was like to eat at one of those places which was interesting because there wasn’t any mention of the food. Just how they sat next to the jacket someone wore in a movie and how they had an uninterrupted view of someone else’s shoes. I finally asked what they ordered and after a long ponderous delay she said “I don’t remember, but it’s great and you have to go!” Who am I to criticize? I go to Hooters and wasn’t aware, until recently, that they actually served food. So I guess we all have our blind spots; but go to a restaurant to look at shoes?

Jesse2112 said...

Actually the mob connection has been explored momentarily on lots of TLB sites. But usually the poster gets slammed quickly and the topic is dropped, due to some peoples need to keep these victims on a pedastal made of gold, even though none of know the real motive for their deaths. I understand for family members and friends to want to keep the memory of the victims a certain way. But for most of us who have never meet these people it is ridiculous to come to a conclusion that they were squeaky clean and morally rightoues. That mentality about someone we have never met will keeps us from finding the truth behind thier unfortunate deaths.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Grump said:
"Liz has over 800 pages to read. With the exception of Shea, this books connects the Mob to the other murders as well"/

Hi Grump.

I have to ask, out of sheer curiousity...

Does Schreck utilize all 900+ pages of this book, to explain (and flesh-out) a mob motive for these murders?
I mean... is mob involvement, the sole thrust of this book?

OR...
Does Schreck throw a dozen different motives at the reader... and let the reader pick their own poison?

It seems (to me), the latter is more popular among TLB authors.

I'm just curious, as I've never read a single page of Schreck's book.

A book presenting one motive, might be a bit refreshing.
If nothing else, it implies a certain level of committment and certainty, on the part of the author.

Then again... Bugliosi stuck to just one motive throughout his book... and look where that got us! LOL

GrumpFromPahrump said...

Skynard

It has been a few months since I sent the book to Patty, and there was so much information in it. LIZ - Please take notes while reading it.

LaBianca - offers two theories. First, the gambling debt. But I’ve always thought with the $$ Rosemary had at the time of her death, why didn’t she pay it off for him??

Second - Has to do with Beach Boys manager Nick Grillo and Charlie. Remember when Charlie told Geraldo about the Beach Boys manager not paying him his money. Grillo said “I’ll call New York”, and Charlie said, “No, I’ll call New York!” As he left, Grillo made a phone call. Charlie returned a little later and asked his secretary who he called. She told him, “Leno LaBianca”.

It talks a whole lot about Rosemary being an LSD supplier. Going as far as saying she supplied LSD to the Family and Sebring. No real proof, but I wonder, where did she accumulate all that wealth? Tex sold wigs, her store sold wigs too. Oo-ee-oo

As far as Tate, it was all just supposed to be a drug burn/robbery set up by Tex. Joel Rosteau delivered drugs to Sebring that day or the day before. That has been said in other books before. He was unable to get LSD because Rosemary was at the lake. That caused Tex to flip out.

That is the jist of what I remember other than a prior burn Tex and Bruce did on Joel Rosteau. BTW, his girlfriend was Sebrings employee. Joel Rosteau is one of the names mentioned repeatedly in this book and said to be big time Mafia.

Easily 100 pages on Hollywood porn and gay sex, 100 pages on Mama Cass and John Phillips. Personally, I think it is pretty darn good. All the names we’ve read about over the years, like say Pic Dawson, all seem to come together. It in no way paints Charlie as an innocent bystander, but it does shed a whole new light on Tex.

BTW - I’ve been of the radar for awhile. Glad to see things have calmed down here. In the words of Elvis Costello, “What’s so funny about Peace, Love, and Understanding?”

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Thanks Grump, for your explanation.
I have a pretty good idea, what to expect from this book now.

You're right.

In regards to Cielo:
Tex's drug-burn motive.... and Joel Rosteau's "untimely demise" are discussed frequently.
Sanders even mentions Rosteau's body being found in an automobile trunk "mafia-hit style"... during a 1975 interview.

I've always been open to the possibility that Cielo was Drug-burn (and Tex) related.

Regarding Rosemary not paying Leno's debts:

According to the homicide report, Leno kept some of his debts and dealings private.

He had been embezzling money from the supermarket business... and the report suggests, that some of his family members (also board members for the supermarket business) were not aware of the true extent of Leno's embezzling and squanderings.
Eample:
They discovered after his death that Leno personally owned nine thoroughbred racehorses... including a prominent racehorse named "Kildare Lady".
According to the homicide report... they had no idea Leno owned any horses at all... until, after the fact.

Homicide report:
"To the family's astonishment, it was learned after Mr. LaBianca's death--he owned nine thoroughbred race horses, including Kildare Lady, one of the more prominent horses".

Maybe... just maybe... Rosemary wasn't aware of the true extent of Leno's gambling debts?
Just a thought...

As an aside:
Has it been established beyond doubt, that Rosemary was, in fact, loaded (financially)?
I've heard that many times... but, I've never seen proof.
Maybe, I should read that second report again. LOL
They talk about Rosemary a LOT, in there.
Several pages on her sex life, alone. LOL

Thanks Grump!

I can't comment further, as I haven't read any of Schreck's book.

Peace!

lurch said...

According to this book, Tex shot Rosteau in the foot about 1 week before the attempted burn of Lottsapoppa. I know LA can be a small place, but Rosteau seems to pop up in this tale a lil too often to just be a coincidence. Then he ends up dead in a car trunk at JFK. Sounds like a mob hit to me.
Anyone have a bio on good ole Joel? Seems he might be more than just a bit player in this.....

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
cielodrivecom said...

I suppose when the hit was ordered, the gangsters forgot to tell Charlie where the Labianca's lived. Seeing as how they drove all over Los Angeles looking for the house for hours upon hours.

eviliz said...

eviliz said...
LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...
Starship and I, have been studying the Leno/Carbo gambling-debt angle for years.
I was particularly intrigued by this topic, for a very long stretch.

If I’m welcome here… please allow me to share.

From Gorightly:
"At the time of his death--it has been alleged--Leno was in debt to the tune of $30,000 to Frankie Carbo's organization“.
(Although) I’m told Gorightly’s source for that information, was Bill Nelson.

eviliz said...w0w, another connection- ;)~
Adam Gorighyly is my and Pattiecakes "Uncle Go Go." I am going to ask him about it.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...
The big "Con" or loophole to this theory, which always dogs everyone (including me):
Why would the professional Mafia contract a "professional hit" with a bunch of hippies?
A complete bloodbath, with foolishness left behind... and the man's wife (Rosemary) being killed to boot... just doesn't fit the mafia's methods.
The mafia doesn’t do “business“ with hippie kids.
That’s the big bug-a-boo, to this theory.

eviliz said...
I have never EVER believed LaBianca was a "Family/Mafia hit."
Like LSB said, Why would the mafia hire Charlie? And you cannot say it was because his price was cheap either. The mob has people hanging around just for "icing" people purposes. And the "icer" is usually a mob member and would do it for free.

What is the proof about Carbo and the black book? Because, Charlie said so? I am NOT familiar with the mob theory on LaBianca because I never believe it or wanted to peruse it, that is why I asked -is it just because Charlie said so? Is there any proof other than Charlie saying so and Bill Nelson writing in one of his books
that Leno's first wife (I think it was her) said there was a black book? Though I forget if she said she personally saw it while cleaning up the house after the murders at Waverly.
Didn't Nelson also say something about Lt. Deemer and the black book too?

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...If I’m welcome here… please allow me to share.

eviliz said...
Eviliz's blog is like church-
You and everyone else are always welcome!
We have no beef with you LS.

eviliz said...

GRUMP- Don't give it all away. There is more to my book report coming up.
:)

eviliz said...

eviliz said...
hippichick40 said...
Wow, check out that feathered hair! You look like such a wholesome, ladylike lass. That's ginger ale in that glass, I'm sure.

Feathered and plastered with Aqua Net.
After all it was the 80's! Thrown in the mix was one purple double barrel microdot and lots of dirt weed and a Budweiser pop top can, which they don't even make anymore. Just the thought of Budweiser today makes me want to gag. But I thought it was good back then.
Today I would have a Magic Hat #9 or maybe a Sam Adams with some good
green bud! Speaking of............

GrumpFromPahrump said...

eviliz said...

GRUMP- Don't give it all away. There is more to my book report coming up.
:)

I'll do that luv!

matt prokes said...

purple microdots.....the good old days.
charlie looks like a low rent desi arnez in that picture.

eviliz said...

hexjoe53 said...
Evilitz,not that I am as relevent as the other posters here, and I know my points are more abstact, and deviate from the conversation a little, BUT is it not sexist hate speech to call an other girl, (fat and ugly) with a blond afro? Moving on, if I could just say to far flung,when you mentioned bonnie lee bakely,you stuck my mens rights nerve, just a little tid bit for you: bonni lee bakely had scammed men, in ALL 50 FIFTY STATES! P.S, HOW COME A.C. FISHER doesn't blog lately?

What is sexiest about(fat and ugly)with a blond afro?
You obviously came here looking for a fight. OR-
Are you the President of the "Defend Fat Girls With Blonde Afros Club?" Or are you fat and ugly with a blonde afro and that is the nerve I struck?

hexjoe53 said...
just a little tid bit for you: bonni lee bakely had scammed men, in ALL 50 FIFTY STATES! P.S, HOW COME A.C. FISHER doesn't blog lately?

No shit Sherlock. You come on a MANSON and want to fight about Bonnie Blakley?
That would be the
"Bash Bonnie Bakely blog."
Click on link below.

www.bashbonniebakely.com

And leave Farf alone. He is Family.
As far as A.C's whereabouts concern, like you I didn't get the memo or fax, not even a text from her this week as to why she is not blogging lately.

eviliz said...

matt prokes said...
purple microdots.....the good old days.
charlie looks like a low rent desi arnez in that picture.

Yes they were and yes Charlie does!

Matt said...

matt prokes said...

charlie looks like a low rent desi arnez


priceless...

andy said...

ive never fully gone for the mob hit theory either. soon as things got as big as they did charlie wouldve been buried 6 feet deep. the mob had no problem offing their own when seen as loose ends, why on earth would they have had enough faith in manson and/or the family to not off them? It doesnt make sense. No matter how much someone somewhere may have trusted him "why take a chance, at least thats my opinion." It cant be denied, thats how the mob works. soon as the shit hits the fan, people start disappearing.

andy said...

i might add, that so much of the mob hit theory does make sense. But after the fact is where it falls apart. I really cant think of anything but dead on proof would sway me to believe that they wouldve let him live after that hit went to national front page news

Matt said...

Good point, Andy.

Farflung said...

Here’s a little video of Mr. Creepy of the famed Ma Barker Gang. Gee whiz, he seems so sweet and soft spoken, more like an insurance salesman than bank robber credited with multiple murders. I found what he said about Ma Barker interesting (6:49-7:29):

Alvin Karpis

It looks like ‘spin’ was used during the Great Depression era as well. I suppose admitting that you mowed down some grandmotherly woman during an undisciplined, fire fight wouldn’t sound too noble. Adding that J. Edgar Hoover himself, captured Karpis, only reinforces the existence of crippling insecurities tied to hubris as a long standing frailty of the human condition. This doesn’t mean I’m so naïve as to think Creepy wasn’t responding with an equal amount of counter-spin. But who ya going to believe?

Considering the arc of Ma Barker has taken over 75 years to settle down a bit, I suppose that it isn’t out of line to anticipate the same for Manson sometime around the year…… 2044.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I agree Andy.

The mob hit theory looks great on paper... but, when you step back a few paces, and look at it from a distance... it's not realistic.
It falls apart.

According to the homicide report(s), the police actually started their investigation with Leno's gambling debts... his "hoodlum bank contacts"... and a set of coins which Leno had hawked to a shady character.
Initially... those were their primary leads.

It makes sense.
I mean...
How could one launch a legitimate investigation, and completely ignore a man's "$500 per day gambling habit"?
(Mind you... that's 1960's money... and yes... the "$500 per day gambling habit", is also specified in the report).
A logical place to start.

However:
The police subsequently hit a dead-end, and abandoned their pursuit of those leads.
Were the police completely inept... or, was there nothing there?
I think there was nothing there.

The mob hit theory looks great on paper, but in reality, it doesn't hold much water.
It would have, to have been, the most poorly executed mob hit in history. LOL

Was Leno actually stooping to lower life-forms and organizations, for his gambling "loans"?... like bikers maybe?
Eh... who knows... but, it would make a bit more sense.

If it was a "contracted hit" it was likely NOT linked to an "Italian" outfit.

I agree Andy.
Great on paper... but, lacking in reality.

eviliz said...

ANDY- How did you make out the other night with the storms? They mentioned on the news that the city you lived in 15 years ago when we first met got hit hard.

Though Andy probably won't read this since it is kind of an old thread.
FYI- Andy is MY oldest Manson friend.
15 years ago we met and he came to visit me in CT ALL the way from NY.
He spent the weekend buy nothing "funny" happened. ;)

eviliz said...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand-
You and I have always thought alike, you even mentioned that "great Manson minds think alike" :)

As far as Leno's gambling debt, which has been mentioned places, everyone wonders if Rose Mary had all that money why didn't she just pay off his debt? Maybe Leno kept it a secret from her? Most gamblers do his the fact they are in debt from their family.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Was Leno's organized crime connection dropped by the police cuz they were bought off?

We are, after all, talking about the third most corrupt police dept. in the USA, after Chicago and New Orleans.

andy said...

liz i was down on the Jersey shore. My girlfriend (and her family) have a nice quiet summer place. Yesterday it got pretty stormy but nothing major. Im back home and it doesnt look like anything too major went on here. thanks for asking though.
Was that really 15 years ago that we hung out and traded books and vhs tapes? for whatever
its worth i wear it with a badge of honor that i (we) have stuck around this long. Ive been into this case since i was 18 and read Helter Skelter. But it wasnt til the internet came along that i found others into it like me. Weve been able to learn so much through all the boards/sites/forums/people who have come and gone through this little journey to find out not only the truth, but all the little interesting tidbits that went on, and continue to. You know who i wonder what ever happened to? the guy who (i think) ran a squeaky fromme site. I dont remember his name (was it ergot?) or his site but he had a lot of interesting stuff. i know you were on the board he used to post on a lot, it was one of marks boards. Plus when Barbara or Jennifer Gentry posted and answered questions about life on the ranch for a while. one thing the Col used to say that i totally relate to is that ive forgotten more about this case then most people will ever know. sorry for rambling.

eviliz said...

Andy- 13 years I would say we have known each other. I can NEVER forget Ergot, I sent him my "Love Letters To A Secret Disciple and he kept it and refused to answer my e-mails.
And yes it was Turner's chat room.

eviliz said...

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...
Was Leno's organized crime connection dropped by the police cuz they were bought off?

I never thought of that. Thanks A.C.

william marshall said...

Andy bud disapointed getting the update that you where in my neck of the woods not sure where abouts you where in jersey but its a small state im 20 minutes outside of Atlantic City. Been following your advice still deep in the T.L blog although im sure your aware the good Col and I already locked horns once on here im sure it wont be last time either
actualy made me feel part of family
Col seems do dislike most people and things
Saving ordering your recomended books for my surf trip to Bali in November. Love your site eviilz spend as much time.here and the Cols blog as my Fiance allows she's never got my MANSON fasination peace to.all from Jersey shore