Friday, March 29, 2013

Manson "Attorney" Jailed as a Fraud

Remember Giovanni di Stefano the attorney who was going to get Charles Manson cleared of all charges in the World Court?  Well, it seems that di Stefano himself was a conman too, just like Charlie, and not an attorney at all.  He has been convicted of fraud and money laundering in the UK and received a 14 year sentence.  Many thanks to a loyal Eviliz lurker for this story!



Read the story here- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21969624

Eviliz's previous post on di Stefano
http://www.eviliz.com/2011/05/giovanni-di-stefano-asks-governor-jerry.html





21 comments:

St. Circumstance said...

Of course he is a fraud...

All Manson supporters are sort frauds in my humble opinion.

I am waiting for someone who disagrees with me to answer one simple question...

WHY????? Why help Charlie if your not related to him and never met him??? This is the stranger who you just have to get to know better? Why chose a guy who you have never met outside if jail, and who spent almost all of his free time breaking the law or hurting and stealing from people as the face of your movement?

All of the people on Earth who you could really make a difference with, and for- why insist on this guy?

Regardless if it is true or not- regardless if you agree it is fair or not- 90% of our population views him as the most evil monster who ever lived. People will never take him or what he says seriously. Even his staunchest supporters understand that people don't like him and wont take you seriously if you start your conversation with his name or mention him in the process of explaining your cause. I have seen enough interviews with his own people to know they get it. They may have answers and reasons for it- but they know the prejudice exists.

Charlie is not the most evil man on Earth- but we all know that is how he is viewed...

So what good is he going to do for the environment, or anyone else- when people will not ever take him seriously or think anything else of those who would support him other than that they are misguided and crazy.

Anyone who didn't see this lawyer for what he was is sleeping... Attention grabbing 5 minutes of fame seeking media whore...

Now people like star and greywolf and AC- I respect more than that. They have ideals and values which they stand by- but the result is so predictable you have to wonder why they bother??

maybe Star is a genius and ultra intelligent and gifted. Maybe greywolf is the same. I know AC is a very smart and thoughtful lady. But they are shooting themselves in the foot by championing this guy and it defeats any purpose they might be trying to accomplish because when they attach themselves to Charlie- they loose all credibility with anyone who could ever really help them accomplish any of their goals. Sorry to say Charlie Manson and his clique of friends have not done one thing in all these years to make a single dent in any major environmental issue, and why do you suppose that is?? lol

And when you get caught trying to break the law in his name- then you just cant argue with people who call you a puppet and follower- which makes it even harder for you to be taken seriously.

If you want to make real change in the environment or anything else- you are going to need some people to take you seriously at some point.

But they make no effort to be taken seriously....

there is a deeper and darker reason why people go down this road. pretty easy to figure out why an attorney does anything lol

and we are all drawn into the mystery of the times and the people and the lifestyle to take a closer look and try to make some sense out of it...

but to pick a guy like Charlie Manson knowing nothing about him but the fact he was involved in a gruesome crime which hurt so many people so badly- regardless of his exact participation, and knowing that you will never spend any real time with this person in any significant way...

and still deciding to champion him and his causes to form your own identity in life is saying something very loud about the person who makes such a choice...

You have to live with it- own it.

you want to defend this guy in a court room or the court of public opinion your going to take some shots...

I would appreciate it if just one time someone would be totally honest and just tell the truth about befriending him.

Which is that Charlie is a dark bastard who represents the evil freaky side of human nature and that turns some people on....

At least that would be honest. giving these other reasons which we all know are not reasonable is fraudulent, and a cover for the true feelings lurking inside of you.

leary7 said...

Sorry Saint, but for old times sake I am going to disagree here.
Obviously your point that anyone who associates themself with Charlie, for whatever cause or reason, does so at their own peril given his reputation in the general public is a valid one.
That said, however, to pigeon hole Manson as someone who is just about evil and murder is extremely shortsighted.
What attracts allot of folk, myself included, to TLB is the success that Manson's nihilistic philosophy had in capturing the minds of a group of thirty odd peace loving hippies.
With respect, you seem to view Manson as one-demensional. Not even Bugliosi saw him that way.
The general public, as you say, has accepted the one-demensional description of Manson, but anyone who has read more that HS knows that is taking the lazy road.
Of course this lawyer is just a media whore, much like that female one who is everywhere, Gloria Alfred or something. He is not worth discussing.
But I do strongly disagree that the only reason to be interested in Manson and TLB is for his "evilness".
Folk have been attracted to various forms of nihilism since the Stone Age. Charlie is just one in a long list of preacher/proponents. Clearly, one can be a student of Manson and even an admirer of some of his talents without being a defender or even supporter of Manson.

In the end, doesn't it all come down to the question of can society benifit from understanding Manson and his deeds? Or should we just write him off like a bad TV show?
I have NEVER defended Manson and never will. But I have vehemently defended those who seek to study, learn and understand the man.
Bringing a dismissive and condemning attitude into the Manson arena is always counter-productive - something most of us wish the ol Col would learn.

Panamint Patty said...

Leary said "In the end, doesn't it all come down to the question of can society benifit from understanding Manson and his deeds? Or should we just write him off like a bad TV show?
I have NEVER defended Manson and never will. But I have vehemently defended those who seek to study, learn and understand the man."

Patty agrees with your statement Leary, but she also agrees w/ST that DiStefano is a slimy self promoting boob.

St. Circumstance said...

Leary- hello first :)

One distinction your not making...

you said :

But I do strongly disagree that the only reason to be interested in Manson and TLB is for his "evilness".

I didn't say that as the reason people are interested in him -

I said that may be a reason nobody will admit as to why they FOLLOW him...

I agree we all have our reasons for being interested in this case.

I said : we are all drawn into the mystery of the times and the people and the lifestyle to take a closer look and try to make some sense out of it...


BUT not all of us dedicate ourselves to him and his causes completely and as for those who do... I offer one possible idea as to why

They have to see something in him or there has to be something about him which cause people to go to such lengths for a total stranger right???

It cant be anything positive, because the only things they can bring up about him which is positive are his environmental ideas. Most of them don't know him.
I say again- what has he ever done for the environment? so if that is just a front-then lets get down to the real reason a person chooses Charles Manson for hero worship....

I bring up his one dimensionness ( if that is a word) because it is how the world sees him.

I point that out because it is impossible to keep saying he can be used to help any cause when nobody wants anything from him or people who associate with him...

and when you ask these people what the attraction is they bring up the environment and other causes he is supposedly fighting for and helping...

so is it not fair to point out they cant get any help as long as he is attached???

My firm belief , and this is just mine, is that it is a total waste of time trying to figure him out, or understand him. He doesn't care. he wont try to communicate in any meaningful way...

He plays games and amuses himself and will for the few years he has left. We are done with him for all intents and purposes. he wont even attend parole hearings anymore. Charlie played by his own rules and makes no apologies for it. he toys with those who try to interview him. But he is done in public. the chance to have sit down examination has passed.I have watched many of them and not sure anyone ever had a real chance to get a real idea of what makes him tick.

But we can try to get to these other people who support him. what makes them tick? why do they chose a person like this?? what inside of them thinks he is o.k. and what he did is alright??

That might be possible.

Charlie was not that different from other nickle and dime hustlers- he just wound up in the right time and place around certain people and the combination had a deadly outcome....

But to have people 20 and 30 years later who decide that he is worthy of admiration after knowing what he did and was all about...

that is much scarier to me and much more worthy of sorting out..

hope that makes some sense

leary7 said...

I guess we are talking about seduction here my friend.
How does one get "seduced" by Charlie's rap. What makes someone become more than just a curious investigator and cross the line to thinking Charlie has the answers. Gypsy and others have told us how it happened for them. And Star and folk like AC can give us some contemporary insight I suppose.

It's funny, but in my last therapy session my doc asked me if I could have ever been "seduced" by someone like Manson or Hitler (I am currently studying Germany in the 30's).
My response was no, I have never been attracted to large egos and I just don't think Manson, or Hitler for that matter, were particularly intelligent.
Anyways, I am off course here. I too, Patty, agree with the Saints main initial thrust - the this lawyer and most who align themselves with Manson do so for warped reasons. I just wanted to make sure we distinguished those folks from those of us whose main interest is cultural or such and not just the evil thing.

Panamint Patty said...

Patty made a mental list the other day about reasons people are into this subject:
historians
anthropologists
legal types
radicals
victim's rights advocates
satanists
christians
survivalists
family and friends were involved
artists
acid heads
journalists

Which of these are you? You don;t have to say.

Panamint Patty said...

gun advocates
desert rats
OCD...

St. Circumstance said...

seduction is what draws me to it...

the times and the romantic ideas of the 60's the parties, the freedom, the sex, the drugs...

I admit that it makes me curious as hell. The devil worship and the evil all of it makes it fascinating to me...

but there are lines none of us would cross...

We were all kids once and we all had temptation. every neighborhood in America has a version of the " the bag kids" or "the kids from the other side of the tracks"...

we all have had to make our choices in life as to how far we would go and when it was time to stop.....

this isn't that different to me.

as youngsters there it is a lot easier for me to understand why some would get caught up in it. We were all wilder in our youth, and those were some of the wildest times ever. the line may have blurred a bit for some of them.

I get that...

Diane and Ruth seeing the older girls doing what they did, and not knowing better- I give them some room....


BUT for someone in the last 15 years or so to know the history and the tragedy and still decide to worship this man is beyond my understanding. He wasn't seducing Star or Greywolf...

They went to him. there are others as well...

they seek this darkness out from some reason and that I never will understand???

women who know how he treated women who want to support him??? Who have no ties to him...

here is a guy who beat, raped, and used women - and then women decide without even meeting, or having ties to him to support and defend him???

If they had known him and he had a chance to sweet talk them or smething maybe then it would be easier...


but to read and watch and hear what everyone in the country has been exposed to as your only source of information- and make the decision to get closer...

that has to come from somewhere I just don't think most of us have inside of us...

leary7 said...

you know the other thing I have to confess to is this, and this may be where we split a bit Saint.
I know Charlie is evil, that he has some serious darkness inside of him. But for the life of me I have never been able to lump Manson in with Bundy and Berkowitz, or Dahmer, Gacy and Ramirez. Maybe because I see all of the latter as one-dimensional bores. I mean those guys were just demented sub-humans. Bundy, for crapsake, used to return to his killing sites, brush the maggots off the corpses and have sex with them again. Dahmer, of course, ate his. Can you picture Charlie doing that?
Charlie is interesting the way Dillenger and Bonnie and Clyde were. The way Lizzie Borden was.
He was as much a cultural phenomonon as he was an evil asshole. And he is, let's face it, an oft-times entertaining and charming fella.
I know I have said this before so forgive me - but it fascinates me that if we made a Mount Rushmore of Evil for the 20th century the four faces on it would most likely be Hitler, Stalin, Oswald and Manson. And it is possible that none of the four ever killed someone with their own hands. I don't know why that kills me, but it does.

Panamint Patty said...

Saddam Hussein? He was pretty evil.

Panamint Patty said...

And another client of DiStefano's

St. Circumstance said...

I am into this subject because it was my favorite time in our history and it intersected with the most important time in the history of my favorite music and happened in my favorite place....

growing up a kid in NJ I always dreamed of being a rock and roll Star in California and hanging around the beautiful famous people. Partying, and living life without a care in the world...

This story had it all.

and then some

GrumpFromPahrump said...

Patty - You said boob!

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

ST., you ask WHY? For the same reason I fight against any injustice, or fight against harm to our biosphere (I'm saving the water YOU drink too, even though I've never met YOU either).

Why do people fight to save whales they've never met, protect wolves they've never met (and wolves have some characteristics you'd consider unsavory, too; if you invited them into your home they'd pee on your sofa and eat your cat), fight to protect manatees they've never met, raise money for animals in shelters they've never met, vote for legislative measures to preserve natural environments from fracking that we've never visited, etc. etc. etc.

In fact, I bet you've VOTED for people you've never met, watched concerts of people singing you've never met, gotten aroused by girls you've never met, and supported causes by people you've never met. And most of this stuff is not one tenth as important as the environment, IMHO.

Ninety percent of our population was wrong about slavery in the 1840s. Ninety percent of Detroit voted for Kwami Kilpatrick, too, and he is a much more lawless, criminal person than Charles ever thought of being. Ninety percent of our population was wrong about Gay rights in the 1950s. In fact, if you came into some of the VFW meetings that I attend, and say you're for Gay marriage, well, you might leave without pieces of your hind end. Does that make marriage equality wrong?

I don't particularly care about what other people think is right or wrong. I care about what **I** think is right and wrong, I care about what the Gods think is right and wrong.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Sorry, deleted comment #2 for typos.

"Sorry to say Charlie Manson and his clique of friends have not done one thing in all these years to make a single dent in any major environmental issue"

Really? Palisades, the second worst nuclear power generator site in the nation (ten miles from my house, on Lake MI, ready to pollute 1/5 the world's fresh water), is CLOSING in 2014.

Did Manson do that? Nope. Did I do that all by myself? Nope.

Did a whole bunch of people working together, do that? YES. We circulated petitions, talked to our legislators, made a nuisance of ourselves at government meetings, marched and protested, sued, and most importantly, prayed and did magick.

So, is this attorney a weenie? Yup. So is Jesse Jackson Jr., who just defrauded a whole bunch of Chicago citizens of their money, didn't show up to legislative meetings for 1/2 the year, and is being prosecuted for fraud. Does that make every Democrat who voted for him a bad person?

St. Circumstance said...

I stand corrected... good job!

your new picture is very nice :)

would you believe I hardly ever vote.

But I hear you on the rest... I could use some Magic myself these days...

Still not sure what Charlie has to do with anything you said or how greywolf sneaking him a phone helps the environment- but you have so much passion and you make great points.

Charlie Higgins said...

This guy is well known over here in Ireland. He has represented some of the most dangerous gang land leaders and drug barons in court here over the last few years. He likes to portray himself as the type of character one one see portrayed in a Hollywood mafia blockbuster movie . He has been a thorn in the side of the Irish police force for a long time now and I'm sure that they will be happy with the sentence handed down to him.

Doc Sierra said...

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Really? Palisades, the second worst nuclear power generator site in the nation (ten miles from my house, on Lake MI, ready to pollute 1/5 the world's fresh water), is CLOSING in 2014.
----------------------------------
In the late 80s or early 90s, when I lived in Sacramento, we voted to shut down the Rancho Seco nuclear power plant. It was great. A lot of people lost their jobs but keeping another Chernobyl from happening was more important.
I don't know what your local VFW is like but I'm a disabled vet and I find that most vets are just happy to be alive and don't care one way or the other what people's environmental and sexual beliefs and preferences are. Maybe you can show some of them a new way of looking at issues. I may not agree with all of your beliefs but I'll fight to defend your right to exercise them..

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Doc, some of the VFWs and Legions in this area are very socially conservative, still run by WWII era vets. They're the "greatest generation" but need some updating about current issues.

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

"Still not sure what Charlie has to do with anything you said or how greywolf sneaking him a phone helps the environment"...

I would say that a political prisoner who doesn't have the first amendment right to be interviewed by the press needs an open line of communication to those outside of prison. It prevents abuse by authorities.


Did you know that Charles's first amendment rights are suspended? It's true. ANY other prisoner can distribute art, music, written words, outside of the prison. For example, cop-killer "Tookie" Williams wrote a children's book, and was the darling of liberals such as Whoopi Goldburg and Barbra Streisand. Some prisons actually have taxpayer-funded programs for that, with art shows, books of poetry, music studios, etc. They certainly have the right to be interviewed by the press. Manson does NOT.

That said, I think a better question would be WHY are members of notorious, dangerous gangs and drug cartels allowed cell phones? They're actually using them to order hits (murders!) and run their illegal empires from behind bars. Last year, the head of Dos Emmes was caught with a cell phone. Did THAT make headlines? Nooooooo...