Wednesday, June 19, 2013

Barbara Hoyt tears Lulu a new one!

From Leslie Van Houten's 2007 parole consideration hearing, Barbara Hoyt wrote a letter to the board. It was an extremely telling letter, which probably sealed Leslie's fate for good in the eyes of the parole board. It sure made me think twice about Leslie ever deserving to get out of prison. Wait a minute! Come to think of it, I never was of the school of thought that any of these scumbags should ever be released....The letter was read in the parole hearing by Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney Patrick Sequeira. Read on:


"Dear Board of Prison Terms. My name is Barbara Hoyt. I testified in many Manson related trials against these defendants for seven years. I also testified before you on 10/20/06 against Bruce Davis. I lived with the Manson Family for six months when I was seventeen years old. One of the ways I have to judge whether or not a particular defendant has changed or is sorry is by how truthful they are in the present about their roles in the past. If they are lying or minimizing their actions, I know it because I was there. I was struck by Leslie's 2006 parole hearing because she made that task more difficult by refusing, (like Sadie) --" referring to Susan Atkins, that's Susan Atkins nickname -- "to discuss the crime events at all. She not only murdered these poor people but she is now playing Manson-esque games, i.e., demanding that their memory cease to exist. This is a major red flag to me. In none of Leslie's prior parole hearings that I have watched has she ever owned up to how aggressive she was, or how aggressive her participation was in these crimes. If there was something she wanted and you got in her way, she could be quite abusive. Her demeanor never changed after the murders. Her affect was never sad to me. According to Sadie, who I overheard talking about the murders to Ouisch, O-U-I-S-H, Leslie forced Mrs. LaBianca into her bedroom, put a pillowcase over her head, and wrapped a lamp cord around her neck and shoved her onto the bed and held her down so Katie, Patricia Krenwinkel, could stab her, which she attempted, but her knife bent on the victim's collarbone. When Mrs. LaBianca overheard her husband being murdered, she jumped up from the bed with a superhuman strength, screaming, 'What are you doing to my husband?' She managed to keep Leslie and Katie at bay by swinging the lamp at them with the cord still around her neck. So Leslie got Tex. She knocked the lamp from Mrs. LaBianca's hands, and Tex, with a large knife, stabbed her, bringing her to the floor. There were several people that lived with the Manson Family who, despite believing that Charlie was Jesus Christ, that despite fearing the coming of the end of the world and Helter Skelter, despite the cult techniques of indoctrination, chose not to harm others, even if it meant not surviving Helter Skelter. There was also a group of Family members who couldn't wait to kill. Leslie was in the latter group. I believe that even without Charlie she would have harmed others in some capacity. I saw an interview with Leslie's father and he stated that, 'He has never asked her about the murders and she has never commented about it, that he has not lost any sleep over this entire -- over this crime, and that he doesn't think about the victims, and that he forgave Charlie Manson a long time ago.' It must be nice. If my child had been involved in a murder, I would have asked a lot of questions and I would have lost a lot of sleep. Leslie's ability to kill --" or, excuse me. "Leslie's ability to feel no concern for others isn't a trait she learned from Charlie but from her father. Charlie just gave her a place to express herself. She chose to kill. She asked to kill. She wasn't a mindless drug-crazed zombie soldier for Charlie, as she described herself in an earlier parole hearing. She had lots of fun. She played games, camped, sang songs, raced in dune buggies, had casual sex with favorite partners. She enjoyed herself. She was not an innocent who was plucked from her home. She came to the Family with her own group, including Bobby Beausoleil and Gypsy Share, who were both involved in another murder and attempted murder. Leslie also at the time knew that what she did was wrong. On the morning following the LaBianca murders I entered the back house of the ranch to find Leslie on the bed counting coins. A call came from the field phone that a man was on his way to the back house looking for Leslie. She told me the man had given her a ride last night from Griffith Park and for me to hide her, which I did. In 1977 Leslie was out of prison for a few months. She came to Paul Watkins' home and I met her there. She demanded of me, 'Did I know what it was like to live under a death sentence?' Having been a victim of an attempted murder, I said indeed I did know, and I wasn't given a trial like she had. I feel from her statements that the only person she feels is a victim here is herself. I compare the Manson story with that of Hitler because there are so many similarities. Both groups consisted of antisocial people who in their blood thirsty quest for personal power were willing to kill innocent people to get it. At least Hitler's cronies were held responsible for their murders despite pleas that they were only following orders, and so should the Manson followers who chose to kill. Both groups have left behind a legacy of evil that haunts us still today. I believe that if Leslie were truly and deeply sorry, she would stop these parole hearings and let the victims' family have some peace and serve her time in silence and dignity. In closing, I would like to say to Leslie that there is a fact that you seem to be unaware of, and that is, that murder is something you can never recover from or make right. The victims never get their lives back. The families never get to stop mourning. The witnesses never again get to live without fear, and the killers spend the rest of their lives in prison. You demanding to be able to leave prison would mean that you would be the only one to be able to walk away from the carnage you caused, and that would be a travesty of justice. Thank you. Barbara Hoyt."





44 comments:

orwhut said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Max Frost said...

I've never been a fan of Hoyt. But she does make some VERY good points.

Thanks Ann.

Max Frost said...

The only thing wrong with what she said is that she was the victim of an attempted murder.

You don't try to kill someone by spiking their burger with LSD. You try to keep them high and tripping for a week so they can't testify.

Given all the murders before her incident, it seems like if they wanted to kill her, she wouldn't have lived to write that letter to the parole board.

orwhut said...

Barbara seems to be at a gathering of the Scottish clans or something of the sort. I hadn't noticed the plaid before.

AustinAnn74 said...

Well, I think their intention, regardless was to harm her to prevent her from testifying. I can't begin to imagine how strong acid used to be back then. Maybe they thought that giving her a lot of it would kill her. Ouisch and company weren't exactly criminal masterminds. They were dumb kids! I always wondered where they got the $$$ to fly to Hawaii, and get a hotel. I know a lot of people loathe BH, but I think she truly has empathy for the victims families.

Max Frost said...

They weren't a bunch of dumb kids.

By the time this Hoyt incident happened all these "kids" had become very street smart survivalists. Of course desperation can make smart people do stupid things but by then these guys had pretty much seen it all. If they wanted to eliminate Hoyt it would not have required taking her all the way to Hawaii. And they certainly wouldn't have left anything to chance - she'd be gone.

orwhut said...

Max,
Could you tell us why you think Barbra was given all that acid?

Panamint Patty said...

there was BEL in Hawaii at that time. they were canning their new mauie wowie hybrid and shipping it to the mainland. Patty always wonders if that had anything to do with the trip? probably not. where's kimchi when you need her?

Ole J.C. said...

I understand Jobba the Hoyt's reasoning for doing what she does. BUT the garbage she spews is HEARSAY. It's someone telling someone else what someone else said, then Hoyt retelling is AS SHE HEARD-REMEMBERS IT.

Ever play that game "Grapevine" in school-- where the teacher tells the first kid something. Then that kid whispers it into someone else's ear, and that kid whispers it into another ear and over and over until it gets back to the teacher to be a completely different phrase?

This is why hearsay is not evidence, well unless it's in the Manson case where 85% of the testimony was "I heard..."

Donna Nelson said...

Who is this bitch? Leslie compared to the third reich. PLEASE.

Ole J.C. said...

As for the LSD incident; I never thought they intended to kill her. There was way too much evidence putting them together. I think they intended to put her in a different world, leave her, and let her figure out how to get home.

Ole J.C. said...

As for the LSD incident; I never thought they intended to kill her. There was way too much evidence putting them together. I think they intended to put her in a different world, leave her, and let her figure out how to get home.

Max Frost said...

orwhut said:
"Max,
Could you tell us why you think Barbra was given all that acid?"

To send her flying for a while.

Max Frost said...

She wasn't comparing Leslie to the third reich. She was comparing the circumstances.

Doc Sierra said...

Panamint Patty said...

there was BEL in Hawaii at that time.
----------------------------
Hi Patty, what is BEL?

I remember Maui Wowie back in the 70s. I smoked some with a friend before 1st period band class in 8th grade. During class he was playing trombone and smoke came out of his trombone. We laughed our asses off........

lman28 said...

Hoyt met LVH at Paul Watkins house!!!??? I'm guessing if this is actually true LVH might have arranged for Paul to set this meeting up in anticiption of Hoyt testifying at her retrial. They (H & VH) drove to the desert for this meeting??? Would this be ethical? Am I the only one finding this hard to believe?

lman28 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
orwhut said...

Max,
What was the purpose of sending Barbra flying for a while? Didn't Ruth Ann immediately hop a plane back to the mainland? I can't understand why she didn't hang around in case Barbra needed her while she was on her trip?

Max Frost said...

If she was tripped out on acid for days in Hawaii obviously she'd have a hard time getting it together enough to figure out what was going on in enough time to find a way back to testify.

Doc Sierra said...

I agree with you Max. Everybody who was ever in the psychedelic/hallucinogenic culture knows that an overdose of LSD won't kill you. It'll make you a trippy person but it won't kill you. A huge dose of LSD will make you what we used to call "clay brained" back when my friends and I used to use it. If you're clay brained you're going to appear stupid for days after you come down. If you appear stupid you're not going to be an effective witness on the stand if you can even make it there....... I coined a term back then for when one is clay brained. I called it the Play Dough syndrome......

Max Frost said...

And being stranded "over seas" in Hawaii would seriously complicate the situation.

If they wanted to kill her it would've been much easier to take her to Death Valley, dosed her, and left her there to crawl her way out. No guarantee she would've died but chances would've been pretty good considering the remoteness and conditions.

Aaron said...

I never understood the hatred for Barb. It seems like sometimes when someone speaks out against the killers, people get mad at them.

If they actually were trying to kill her, who knows. Nobody involved is going to say so. Maybe it was like people have said just to put her out for a while. Maybe to get a point across. You know "snitches will be taken care of" What is strange though, there is always talk about how strict of vegetarians the family was. Now we know Sadie would sneak off for steaks, and Charlie has even said he ate if from time to time, but do you think it's actually true that they were that strict about not eating meat? Ruth was pretty hardcore in the family. Doesn't the fact that it was a hamburger seem odd to anyone? Is it just me?

Aaron said...

I never understood the hatred for Barb. It seems like sometimes when someone speaks out against the killers, people get mad at them.

If they actually were trying to kill her, who knows. Nobody involved is going to say so. Maybe it was like people have said just to put her out for a while. Maybe to get a point across. You know "snitches will be taken care of" What is strange though, there is always talk about how strict of vegetarians the family was. Now we know Sadie would sneak off for steaks, and Charlie has even said he ate if from time to time, but do you think it's actually true that they were that strict about not eating meat? Ruth was pretty hardcore in the family. Doesn't the fact that it was a hamburger seem odd to anyone? Is it just me?

sherm maniac said...

"Jobba the Hoyt", classy.

Max Frost said...

The whole "strict vegetarians" thing has always been exaggerated.

Repeat: If they wanted her dead, she would've been.

Panamint Patty said...

Hey, doc. BEL means brotherhood of eternal love. Put it in the blog's "search" box, then hit enter. Posts should come up. Its Patty's favorite long shot theory. What if, what if, what if.

Doc Sierra said...

Thanks Patty. I just went on Amazon and put the book Orange Sunshine in my wish list......

orwhut said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
orwhut said...

So, according to your theory, Barbra who, was in Hawaii as a reward for not testifying, was dossed liberally with LSD as insurance that if she changed her mind, or if the police found her, and took her back. She wouldn't make a good witness. I can see how that's possible, and right now, it seems more likely to me than the attempted murder theory. I can also see that, if that was the plan, it backfired miserably.

Max Frost said...

By the way, Doc, I dig your coined "play-dough syndrome."

It's an accurate description.

At least that's what I heard...

Panamint Patty said...

That's a good one! The British book on the subject goes into a lot more detail if you end up wanting more.

Doc Sierra said...

Hi Patty. By any chance do you know the title or the author of the British book?

brownrice said...

"The Brotherhood of Eternal Love" by David May & Stewart Tendlar. There's also a book called "Acid: A new secret history of LSD" by David Black which is worth a look.

Doc Sierra said...

Thanks Brownrice. They're both in my Amazon cart ready to buy when I get paid.

Panamint Patty said...

Patty just went looking for her BEL books and realized that she loaned them to MATT. Can Patty have them back? She's got an idea brewin'.

Also check out Acid Dreams: The Complete Social History of LSD: The CIA, The Sixties, and Beyond by Lee & Shlain

Doc Sierra said...

It's now in my Amazon cart. Thanks Patty.

AustinAnn74 said...

Ruth Ann Moorehouse is still owed a bitch slap by one Barbara Hoyt, in my book!

Panamint Patty said...

ha! nice one, Ann.

AustinAnn74 said...

Thank you. :-)

ColScott said...

The reason to hate Orcette is not because she testifies against the killers. Testifying against killers is a GOOD thing.
LYING about killers to put yourself in the center of attention helps no one and is a sign of mental illness.

Ray Morgan said...

at the same time barbara hoyt is as much to blame as leslie van houst, hoyt did not mention anything at the time only now, why is that?

If you were there and suddenly u wanted to get out of it but 2 mad people were stabbing others to death, how do u get out of it without dying yourself from these loonies??

Sharon Thomas said...

Barbara Hoyt was a 17 year old, naive, girl, who ran away to oppose her parents. Unfortunately she met up with the "Manson Family" where she found acceptance and freedom to do as she wanted. A spoiled child, probably. On drugs, away from home, experiencing the behavior of people older and more street wise was exciting and made her feel grown up. Did she make a lot of mistakes, yes. Did she perhaps bow to authority after the arrests, perhaps. She has all these years lived with guilt, sadness, attempting to make amends to humanity. God will judge her.We have all made mistakes.

Charlie Troll said...

If her little vacation in Hawaii didn't turn out the way it did, would we still be hearing from this woman? Let's be real. She's on a 46+ year vendetta because she was a selfish fool and wants to rid herself of the guilt she has over accepting a vacation in exchange for not testifying. I've always felt this way about her and then sure enough, it was confirmed when I found old testimony from her online in which she tried to rid herself of that guilt and makes the claim she was being threatened. That makes zero sense. Were you being threatened or offered vacations? You were too scared to say no to the vacation, but after it backfired in your fat face, you weren't scared to take the witness stand? She is a proven liar too. It's been confirmed long ago that the murder of Shorty happened at least a mile down the road from the ranch and during the day. She claims she heard it take place at night. Based on this, she has absolutely no place butting her nose into LVH parole hearings or anyone else. Is she trying to earn brownie points with Debra Tate out of guilt for finding some fun in the sun a good incentive to not testify against the killers of her sister? She like countless others make the claim that Charlie has a "long reach", yet since 1969 not one person has ever been murdered on the instructions of the evil guru and if she and people like Vincent Bugliosi, Jeff Guinn and others who make the same claim really believed that utter bullshit, they wouldn't be putting themselves out there like this, let along saying it on TV while spewing lies. The fact is, she is a hired victims rights advocate. The most amusing claim is that the first thing Manson asked her when they met was if she was a Beatles fan. She claims Mary and Sandy were arrested buying "Helter Skelter" supplies. She reads from the script a little too much. My guess is, if she isn't a total bullshit artist, she was just a dumb ass who wasn't let in on what was going on and Helter Skelter was used a front or a smoke screen from people who weren't involved in what was going down at that time.

Cybele Moon said...

hear hear!! I also do not think they should get out. Yes, they may be remorseful e.g. Leslie Van Houten but the crimes were so horrific and heinous and cold blooded. Yes in a controlled environment with little else to do some of them have found God and educated themselves. I don't applaud that. Many people not in jail do exactly the same thing without applause. What I don't understand now that LVH's hearing is coming up again this month, these groupie type supporters who try to make them into the heroes and victims of an unjust system!! What the ----!!!!