Monday, October 19, 2015

Truman Capote's Credibility

Truman Capote


Recently I was reading some transcripts of Bobby Beausoleil parole hearings and I was interested (beyond Sassy Bottoms!) to see how much weight was given to the content of an interview that Beausoleil gave to writer Truman Capote when he was housed in a maximum security unit at San Quentin prison in 1972 (or 1973, depending on the source). That interview saw its final form as a chapter in Capote's 1980 book Music For Chameleons entitled "Then It All Came Down." Beausoleil's reaction to the interview can be seen in the two parole hearing transcript sections quoted below, beginning with where a hearing representative responds to some material which was submitted to the Board by the District Attorney's office for the 1985 hearing:

Hearing Representative Lander: The first part of the material is a letter signed by Mr. Franks (phonetic) from Random House, Incorporated, and it indicates that Mr. Truman Capote had conducted an interview with you, and for the purposes of writing a book about death row murderers, and to do a television special on the subject of Death Row.

Inmate Beausoleil: Hmmm.

HRL: This was never shown on TV, and he remarks that there are editing marks on the (reported to be) transcript of an interview conducted by Mr. Capote with you when you were at Death Row. This had been sometime, some years ago, when you were at San Quentin, in the early 1970s.
Counsel obviously has advised you of your rights related to this material. The material relates to your attitude at that time, as well as what had transpired during the crime, as well as your attitude at the time that you were imprisoned, and what your lifestyle had been. 
Are you willing to discuss this material with us today?

IB: Sir, I have been advised by my attorney that it wouldn't be appropriate at this time to go into that material.

Later, Bobby Beausoleil's Attorney Daniel Helbert said: I'd like to point out that the material that's been considered in connection with the Capote situation was material that was solicited by [LA County Deputy District Attorney Jeffery] Jonas. Also, I think, really, I understand that my objection's been overruled, and the panel's going to consider that information, but I think in terms of the weight of evidence that's going to be given to something like that, I think you have to realize, this material is material that allegedly came from the Capote interview. It's been edited by somebody, and that's indicated by the cover letter, by Mr. Fox. Furthermore, it's obviously been transcribed by someone, who we don't know who actually did the transcriptions.
It's also been punctuated by someone, and for instance, what appears to be an answer, in reality could be a question. Merely by putting four words together -- get me out of jail -- that could be a question, or that could be an answer.
And I think the panel is left with absolutely no direction whatsoever when you try to take a look at isolated excerpts from that type of a transcript.

On page 115 of the transcript Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney Jonas says: In the information that we have submitted to this panel with regard to the interview by Truman Capote, there is a comment made by Mr. Beausoleil as to what influence he thought he had on Manson, and how they met, and basically he was with his girls, Manson, with his girls, met in a bar and it became sex and it became music and ultimately it became one family. And we'll get into that....

And you understand that this interview is now four or five years after the facts, the 19, uh, -70 statements. You'll see in the upper righthand corner, there are page numbers. 
I'm referring the panel now to page number 16…. On page 16 Mr. Capote is apparently asking why the killings, why Gary Hinman died in a certain way. And halfway through there, the question is:
"In other words, they committed these murders in imitation of the Gary Hinman murder so to prove that you couldn't be guilty? Is that what you said?"
Answer: "To get me out of jail."

Mr. Helbert: That doesn't have a question mark at the end of it, does it?

Jonas: Is that what you say? It has a question mark? Answer: "To get me out of jail," has no question. "To get you out of jail?" has a question mark. I think the panel can read that.
But the answer is far more significant, counsel.

Helbert: Unless it's a question, Mr. Jonas.

Jonas: Well, that doesn't sound like a question to me. "You know, they've called us a family?" No, it's, "You know, they've called us a family, and we are a family. It's just like if you're really one with a family." Is that a question? "I mean like we're mother, father, sister, brother, daughter, son." Question? "To each other, that's where it's at. That's our family." That's a question, counsel? "That's our country, our world, and our society if you want to call it that. If a member of that family was to be in jeopardy, like you know, a family that loves wouldn't abandon that person. So for the love of brother those killings came down."
Not a member of the Manson family?….
Question: "You say you don't believe in killing just now? Before you said you didn't think there was anything wrong in the Sharon Tate murder case."
"Anything wrong? You see, when it comes to right and wrong, everyone has their own idea of right and wrong. Some people believe in the right and wrong that society dictates. My right and wrong is different. I don't even have a right and wrong. It's just whatever's right for now. That's the way it is. I don't judge it."
…. And I submit to you that I'm very, very concerned about that statement, because I submit to you that I am still concerned about Mr. Beausoleil's perspective of right and wrong, and who makes the rules, and whether we go by Mr. Beausoleil's rules, as he makes them up, or whether we go by society's rules….
But you know, there's something else that's a little bit curious in all of this. Mr. Beausoleil goes on and he talks about the Tate-LaBianca murders in this interview with Truman Capote. And Capote says, well, they were relatively innocent, weren't they? -- this on page -- meaning Tate and all those other people….
And he says, "Relatively innocent?" "Relatively innocent." check page 126.
On page 19, another question is asked by Mr. Capote: "But what possible justification could there be for the murder of the man and his wife the next night?" Meaning the LaBiancas. Answer: "You know I was in jail at the time, you know." Question: "Yes, but you approve of those things. You say, well, we're all a family and anything goes. All for one and one for all. (You're) saying you approve of it." 

Answer, Mr. Beausoleil: "I just don't question my brothers and sisters, you know."


Bobby Beausoleil

Twenty years later, this is from Beausoleil's 2005 hearing, starting at transcript  page 107:

Deputy District Attorney Sequeira: Did the inmate tell Truman Capote, in an interview that's in a transcript, that he was a member of the Manson Family?

Inmate Beausoleil: I never told Truman Capote that, and that was not a transcript. I know what you're referring to.

DDAS: Someone just made this up, is that what you're saying?

IB:Yes, and he is notorious for having done that sort of thing. He apparently -- the best that anyone has been able to determine, and of course that was also looked into in one of the investigations that Mr. Farmer referred to earlier, no one was able to get any sort of verification of that so-called transcript. Apparently it was something that he took out of his own head. Everything that I've read about him indicates that this is something that he did on a regular basis.

DDAS: I'm looking at a letter from the Random House publisher, specifically including the transcript copies, and saying that these are a copy of the transcripts and there's some writing on it. Some of the inks are by the copy editor, some of the pencils are his editing and that is Mr. Joseph M. Fox from Random House Incorporated.

IB: That was a transcript submitted by Mr. Capote to Random House. Yes. 

DDAS: And that's a transcript of the interview -- 

IB: No, it's not a transcript from the interview, it's a transcript that he made up, based on a very brief interview that did occur many, many years ago at San Quentin that I stopped in the middle because I didn't want to answer questions about the Manson Family.

DDAS: So you are saying that you didn't say in this transcript, "You know, they've called us a family and we are a family. It's just like if you were really one with family. I mean we are mother, father, brother, sister, daughter, and son to each other."

IB: I did not make that statement to Mr. Capote --

DDAS: Excuse me, let me finish Mr. Beausoleil.

IB: I'm sorry.

DDAS: "Where it's at, that's our family, that's our country, our world and our society if you want to call it that. If a member in that family was to be in jeopardy, like you know, a family that loves would [not] abandon that person, so for the love of brother those killings came down. I don't believe in killing, I don't want to believe in killing; but if I have to use violence I'll use it, you know?" So those are not your statements in the transcript?

IB: No, they are not. 

DDAS: The rest of the transcript, was that all made up as well?

IB: Pardon me?

DDAS: I'm not going to go into all the details --

IB: I'm sorry, you're fading out, I can't hear you.

DDAS: I'm not going to go into the detail of the rest of the transcript, but you are saying that this was all made up by Mr. Capote.

IB: To the best of my knowledge and to the best of the knowledge of anybody that has been able to figure out where it came from, yes. You know, I'm going to say -- 

DDAS: Is anything in this transcript true?

IB: No. The fact -- I don't know. There might be something that he remembers -- that he remembered at the time he made that transcript that is kind of similar to what I was talking about, but it wasn't about the Manson Family because I would not talk to him about that subject. He came to San Quentin saying he wanted to talk about prison problems. Well he had an agenda and he didn't tell anybody what the agenda was. He got in front of the camera with me and started talking about -- asking me questions, as I tried to evade him and that didn't work and I eventually just walked away. I did not discuss the nature of my relationship -- and I don't know where he got that or where he concocted it or whatever, but he has me in his book, sitting in a prison cell, chewing gum -- this is supposedly under the supervision of -- I don't know what he thinks but anyway --….

It's just simply that Mr. Capote is known for manufacturing things that he thinks will promote himself, I guess. I don't know how to say it any better than that. The interview that you just quoted from appears in a book in which I am sitting in a prison cell, with him, on the bunk, and I'm chewing gum and I'm acting a smart ass and I'm making these statements that you just read. I'm telling you that that interview never took place…. The interview that he provided a transcript to Random House did not take place.

And, a little later in the same hearing (page 113): 

Deputy Commissioner Garner-Easter: I reviewed the file and I did see that Mr. Capote came in there, his purpose was supposedly looking at Death Row inmates across the nation. This has been in contention at other Board hearings. I recognize that the Board of Prison Terms did an investigation on this matter. My understanding -- and you can correct me Mr. Beausoleil -- is that the investigation revealed that the interview took place, but no one can find the original transcripts. They've talked to Mr. Capote's personal attorney. He could not find it. He said the transcripts exist but they never could find the original transcripts and that you have always contested that those weren't your words. But I did not get the impression in looking at the documents that the interview never took place. That there [was] an interview but the question had to do with whether or not you said what he said.


Inmate Beausoleil: Precisely.



Where should we begin when attempting to determine the truth teller in this "he said/he said" situation? Perhaps a good place to start would be with the alleged interview itself, as it appeared in Music For Chameleons


Just a superficial examination of the interview chapter, "Then It All Came Down," by anyone even faintly familiar with Beausoleil's case shows that Capote is wildly inaccurate in many of his statements. In just the second paragraph Capote says that Beausoleil has been incarcerated for over a decade when in fact the true time span was less than half of that. In recounting the Gary Hinman homicide Capote mistakenly says that Hinman was killed when his throat was slashed (he was stabbed in the heart) and that "Death to Pigs" was written on the wall ("Political Piggy" was). Further, Capote has the name of the second half of the collective murders attributed to the "Manson Family" as "Lo Bianco" not "LaBianca." Beausoleil claims that additional erroneous reporting had the interview occurring in his cell instead of in an interviewing room and that he was chewing gum during the interview. But most importantly, in Beausoleil's view, Capote completely fabricated sections of the interview when he supposedly discussed his relationship with Charles Manson and "the Family" and his attitude towards the murders committed by the group. (Also in those sections Beausoleil concurs with Capote's suggestion that the Tate-LaBianca murders were committed in order to get him out of jail, i.e, the get-brother-out-of-jail/copycat motive.)

But looking beyond the chapter about Beausoleil it's worth a look at the credibility of the rest of Music for Chameleons as well. The centerpiece of the book is a 80-page bit of work entitled "Handcarved Coffins," which is described in the paperback edition I possess as a "nonfiction novel" and "A Nonfiction Account of an American Crime."  Both of these descriptions imply (to me, anyway) that the story was about something that actually happened. But after wading through four score pages of amphetamine-crazed rattlesnakes, piano-wire decapitations, and the handcarved coffins themselves, it's hard to believe that such an unusual case involving multiple victims wasn't better known and that in fact no one had even heard of it until Capote's rendition. At one point in the story Capote laments, "The amazing thing is, nobody seems to know anything about this case. It's had almost no publicity."  Well, the reason it never got any publicity was that it never happened -- at least not the way Capote wrote it. Instead, it was only very, very loosely based on a single event that did happen. (I won't take the time and space to critique the work here. Instead, you can read this complete investigative debunking of "Handcarved Coffins.")

But Capote's penchant for embellishing (okay, lying) wasn't just confined to MFC. The book that was the highlight of his career, In Cold Blood (the story of the 1959 shotgun slaying of the Clutter Family in Holcomb, Kansas by ex-cons Richard Hickock and Perry Smith), was also plagued with much fictional nonfiction.

Although hailed as a "masterpiece" by some reviewers at the time of its publication (1966) other critics were less kindly, some even calling the writing style hackneyed and contrived.

A  good takedown of In Cold Blood can be found in Truman Capote's In Cold Blood: A Critical Handbook, a college text edited by Irving Malin. In his book Malin presents convincing evidence that in In Cold Blood Capote manufactured scenes of events that never occurred, like the ending where the detective who solved the case met the best friend of slain Nancy Clutter at the family grave marker (that is described as "gray" instead of its actual red color). Nancy Clutter's horse Babe was not sold to a Mennonite farmer as a plow horse; instead she was sold to a Clutter neighbor determined to keep her in the area. (Babe lived long enough to play herself in the 1967 movie version of ICB.) The interactions between Perry Smith and the wife of the jailer at the Garden City jail as described by Capote were denied by her. Capote misrepresent Smiths's frame of mind during the murders. According to other witnesses present Smith did not apologize for the murders moments before he was hanged. Other critics of the book have pointed out that there are situations and dialogues recounted wherein the only person or persons who could have witnessed them were later murdered without first recalling them to third parties. Perhaps Capote's friend Harper Lee put it best when she later told an interviewer about his writing style, "He knows what he wants and he keeps himself straight. And if it's not the way he likes it, he'll arrange it so it is." 

In Cold Blood killers Richard Hickcock and Perry Smith

Conclusion

As I said at the beginning of this article I was surprised by the importance given to Capote's questionable version of his interview with Beausoleil by the Parole Board and the Deputy District Attorney. But what was really surprising to me was that as much as I thought that the quotes attributed to Beausoleil by Capote had very likely been mangled and misrepresentative, I couldn't dismiss them as completely fabricated because they did sound like things that Beausoleil would have said at about that time in his life (early '70s). I've seen letters and other material from Beausoleil's time on Death Row that testify to a state of mind similar to that expressed in the interview, to cockiness, swagger, and braggadocio. So his words in the interview did sound like things I think he might have said when he was on Death Row, things such as, "When the police put me in chains -- put me in jail and threatened to kill me -- eight or nine people were killed in an attempt to free me. That's a strong love. That's the allegiance that we have with each other." 


I'm sure that Bobby Beausoleil would rather not have people think that an attempt to free him after his arrest for murder was the primary motive behind some of the most infamous murders in American history. Such a concept would surely be an unwelcome weight added to his already precarious legal situation. And while he certainly cannot and should not be held legally responsible for the actions of others on his behalf, it might be difficult for people meeting to decide on his parole chances not to extrapolate this take on the Gary Hinman murder: If not for Beausoleil's  crime, seven more people would not have been killed.






79 comments:

equinox12314 said...


@George, First of all, I hope things are getting better for you on the post-fire situation.

The fundamental problem in the Bobby/Capote situation is that both are known liars. Without a copy of the original interview transcript, it’s impossible to know where the truth begins and ends.

George, would you clarify for me, as far as you are able to do so, whether it is true that Bobby was visited in Los Angeles County Jail by one of the Family women (Linda K?) whom he told that they (the Family ) better get him out of there, or he would cut a deal with the DA. This may be simply untrue which is why I would appreciate your input.

I would also point out that Nikolas Schrek referred in an interview to Bobby as being the one who 'set the catastrophe in motion'. It looks like you are taking are different view from Nikolas and yet you are both highly knowledgeable on this case.

When BB says that the interview never took place, he does qualify the statement “I'm telling you that that interview never took place…. The interview that he provided a transcript to Random House did not take place.” However, I have copied below a piece that Bobby wrote in 2006 and reproduced on one of his Facebook pages in late 2014, in which there is no doubt that an interview did take place. I suspect that the timing of this was to put his position over in the run up to his original 2015 parole date. In this statement from 2006, he makes the claim that he was a member of the Arthur Lee band, Love, as a means of negating any accusations of racism. However, in a YouTube interview, Love member, Johnny Echols states categorically that Bobby was not a member, but that the band had an ‘open guitarist’ slot like bands do an ‘open mike’ slot and BB participated on a number of occasions. Indeed, if you look at Love’s Wiki page, they give a detailed account of their line-ups over the years, and Bobby does not feature.

My point is that until Bobby stops lying, the California Parole Board will not be giving him the green light. It will be interesting to see when he appears before the Board in person on 8th December if he is more frank given that the decision makers are on the other side of the table from him watching his body language.

To an extent, I think it is unfair of the Parole Board to continue using this Capote interview against him because it is over forty years old, and I am sure none of us would want to be held accountable to opinions we expressed that long ago. Also, the Board has been unable to come up with the original transcript, so it is not fair to use whichever source they have available against him. It is like using unreliable evidence.

DUE TO A RESTRICTION ON THE NUMBER OF CHARACTERS IN EACH POST, THE 2006 BEAUSOLEIL STATEMENT TO WHICH I REFERRED IS COPIED BELOW.

equinox12314 said...

The Capote Interview
3 November 2014 at 23:35
In late 1972 or early 1973, Truman Capote came to San Quentin to interview some of the prisoners there. Word was spread about that he had come there to “expose prison problems”. This stated mission appealed to many of the prison inmates there at the time, and naturally – “revolutionary” that I considered myself to be at the time – I must count myself among them. As I would learn later, I was among a handful of prisoners Mr. Capote specifically requested interviews with, all young men who were doing time for murder, or known homosexuals. My ignorance of this was an extreme liability, as it turned out.
 
I knew very little about Capote at the time. I had seen a couple of his appearances on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, and from these I knew he had done some jail time. It seemed reasonable to assume from that that he might be sympathetic to the plight of prisoners. Beyond this I knew virtually nothing about him.
 
In the pre-interview that took place the day before the actual interview, I laid out a couple of preconditions. I told Mr. Capote that I was still appealing my case, and that I would consent to be interviewed only if he would agree to refrain from asking me questions about the crime I was doing time for, or about Charles Manson and company. Furthermore, I told him that I was willing to discuss my personal history in the counter-culture movement, and my “philosophy of life”, but that questions about my parents and siblings were off limits. He agreed to my terms. Believing him was my second mistake.
 
The interview took place in a section of South Block that wasn’t being used to house prisoners at the time. The tiers of empty cells formed a dramatic backdrop. Flanking the setting were six or eight prison guards. There were there ostensibly to supervise and protect Mr. Capote and his crew from potential harm, but likely more out of curiosity than as a hedge against threats.
 
With the first questions Mr. Capote posed to me, I knew that he was out for blood. He probed my defenses and I naively, ignorantly, played right into his hands. What I desired most in those days was some understanding in the eyes of the world. In my arrogance I assumed that I could steer Capote’s insinuating line of questioning to talk about what I considered important. So I evaded and danced around his blatant betrayal of my preconditions, and attempted to bring the exchanged around to serve my own interests. After about fifteen minutes it finally dawned on me that I had was behaving stupidly, that I was engaged in an exercise of futility. Abruptly and somewhat angrily I ended the interview.
Mr. Capote had the upper hand the entire time, and he knew it. All he had to do was bide his time. It would not be until years later that I would come to realize the full scope of the mistake I had made.
 
Many of the comments attributed to me in Capote’s book actually bear some resemblance to what I said in the interview. What was changed, primarily, were the questions. All Capote had to do to get the interview he wanted, for the most part, was to reframe the context of my answers and add some fictional set pieces. First he characterized me as a gum-popping antisocial brat who had dissolved his conscience with too much pot and LSD. Setting the interview in my prison cell where he was allowed to sit on my bunk with me was entirely an invention – that would never have been allowed at San Quentin, any more than prisoners being allowed to chew gun. Virtually all of the written descriptions of the surroundings, the offhand remarks and idiosyncratic behaviors he attributed to me, as well as his bemused and chagrined responses to them, were contrivances of the author. We can only speculate about the true nature of the fantasy Mr. Capote was indulging when he depicted me in this manner.
 

equinox12314 said...

Worse yet was the license taken when he rephrased his questions for the book version of the interview. Mind you, I’m not proud of much that I said in the actual interview but at least I can take ownership of my remarks in their original context, and attribute them to the folly of my youth. This was hardly possible when a writer of some repute had deliberately reframed the interview to warp the intended meanings of my statements.
 
For example, I attempted to express my neo-Zen approach to life and my fledgling spiritual awareness when I spoke about how life flows and “I flow with it,” and when I said, “It’s all good’ – meaning that the universe, the totality of creation, is ultimately and inherently good. These are statements that I might make even today, in the appropriate context. Under subtle manipulations of the author’s pen, the context was sufficiently altered to make these statements seem as though I was offering lame justifications for murder, or at least a cavalier regard for the well being of others. I was not – then or now – so irresponsible or blind to the consequences of my actions as this characterization would suggest.
 
Other examples of Capote’s manipulation include comments I made in reference to the kinship I felt toward people I had been involved with in the youth movement in general. These were subtly re-purposed and made to seem as though I was referring to the so-called Manson family. Admittedly, some of this interpretation can be attributed to my own poor choice of words, but my biggest mistake was being gullible and allowing myself to be set up this way in the first place.
 

(BEAUSOLEIL 2006 STATEMENT CONTINUED)

By the time an account of the interview had appeared in Capote’s book the business about there being an Aryan Brotherhood connection had crept into it, much to my dismay. Presumably Mr. Capote lifted this bit from Vincent Bugliosi’s book, Helter Skelter, which has spread a lot of this sort of misinformation.
 
Once and for all, I have never been allied with the Aryan Brotherhood, as a member or otherwise. It would have put my life at risk to even claim such an affiliation, especially when it was untrue. Moreover, I have never been an adherent to any racial supremist or racial separatist ideologies. Early in my incarceration I may have mouthed some inane remarks about sticking to one’s own culture, because adopting such a stance was de rigueur in California prisons at that time. Crossing racial boundaries was dangerous – and to some extent this is still the case. I was intent on surviving. In my heart of hearts, though, I’ve never been able to embrace any sort of racial elitism.

equinox12314 said...


(BEAUSOLEIL 2006 STATEMENT CONTINUED)

Back in ’65, when I was seventeen, I joined what is widely accepted to be the first racially integrated counter-culture rock band – Arthur Lee’s band, The Grass Roots (later known as Love). When I was living in San Francisco in ’66 and ’67, I occasionally sat in with an R&B trio at the Bar-B-Que Bar in the Filmore District, the only white face in the crowd. I’m a musician, and music is a language that cuts across all ethnic and cultural barriers. In this arena it’s good musicianship that counts, not skin color or cultural background. For me, this same rule of thumb applies to all aspects of my life. My standard response when someone attempts to play the race card with me is: “Life is too short to get hung up over a couple of silly chromosomes”. So you can imagine how offended I felt when I found myself characterized as a racist in Capote’s book, and a couple of others. However, in fairness, it must be said that neither Capote nor Bugliosi originated the misinformation of the AB affiliation. It actually came out of a misbegotten press release issued by the public relations officer at San Quentin following an incident that occurred at the prison some months after my interview with Capote.
 
During the period when I was on the mainline at San Quentin, I preferred to hang with guys who avoided associating with prison gangs – or “tips”, as they were called back then. Such groups by their nature tend to bully individuals who do not have the protection of numbers, and to predate on them through intimidation and the threat of any degree of violence required to meet a given objective of the group. Often the sole purpose of such predation might be to provide a prospective member an opportunity to “make his bones” to prove himself worthy to gain acceptance in the group, or for an accepted member to obtain greater stature within its ranks. My motivation for the crime that brought me to prison was not so far removed from the dynamic at work in prison gangs. By this time I had wised up enough to know that I did not want to make the same mistake a second time. I was fortunate to have made a few friends at Quentin who, like me, chose to avoid joining a lifestyle that could only, we all agreed, lead a man to a bad end.
 
I suppose it was inevitable that a confrontation would develop. My closest friend at that time ran afoul of one of the most sanguinary tips on the Quentin yard. Through sympathetic sources within that group we learned that a “hit” had been put on my friend – that he had, in other word, been targeted for murder. In those days there were few options for dealing with that sort of dire challenge. My friend chose to take the offensive and face the threat head on, and I – because staying on the sidelines and letting him face it alone was not something I believed that I could bear to live with afterward – made the fateful decision to stand by him.

equinox12314 said...


(BEAUSOLEIL 2006 STATEMENT CONTINUED)

The fight that ensued grew larger as it went on, and before it ended involved seven or eight guys, several of whom – myself included – had to be taken to the infirmary for treatment of injuries (remarkably, my friend was unhurt). Prison authorities considered the incident to be relatively significant, even for those insane times, and decided that notification of the public through a press release was warranted in this case. The upshot is that the prison officials didn’t know quite what to make of the incident, and none of the participants were talking. Since everyone involved was Caucasian there was a natural inclination for the authorities to jump to certain conclusions prior to issuing a statement to the press. The day following the incident a San Francisco newspaper ran a small article characterizing it as “an in-house power struggle within the Aryan Brotherhood”, naming me among those injured.
 
By such foibles is history written.
 
A little fact checking would have revealed the truth, as there is no evidence in my legitimate prison record of any actual gang involvement. It was just the product of a misunderstanding, but the truth would not have served the interests of Mr. Bugliosi, who was quick to exploit this bit of misinformation.
 
For years, I bitterly resented Truman Capote for the way he exploited me. I felt so violated that I seemed justified in maligning in some pretty harsh terms in the years following publication of his fabricated interview piece. Gradually the resentment turned to pity. He became a pathetic figure to me, one who compromised his own integrity as a journalist and book author – and this for the meager payoff of having his characterization of me to use as window dressing for the image of himself that he wished to present to the world.
 
Eventually even the pity faded. As I came to face the truth about my own actions and accept that I had violated another far worse than Capote violated me, I was finally able to forgive him and move on.
 
Bobby BeauSoleil
Summer 2006

AustinAnn74 said...

I totally agree that the Truman Capote interview being used in the parole hearings are ridiculous, but the whole reason they bring it up, is because BB has lied a WHOLE HELL OF A LOT and they are trying to see how truthful he's being. He has also tried to distance himself from even associating with Manson & family, almost like he didn't even know them and that's complete & utter, uh, malarkey. In the board's eyes, if he cannot even come clean about his association, then he isn't showing genuine remorse for what he did. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter why he killed. All we know is, a man is dead and BB did it and did it in a terribly brutal way. Mr. Stimson, I appreciate your views too, by the way and am so glad we can write for the same blog, while holding completely opposite opinions on it's subject matter. Also, I do hope you are doing well after the tragedy of losing your home in the fire. Peace, dude!

equinox12314 said...

Austin Ann74 said...

"..He has also tried to distance himself from even associating with Manson & family, almost like he didn't even know them and that's complete & utter, uh, malarkey"

Yes Ann, exactly. On YouTube, there is a recorded Bruce Davis parole hearing where one of the Board says as an aside that what bothers him about Beausoleil is that he will not admit to being a member of the Family. Now, I don't know what criteria there is in Bobby's mind as to Family membership, but to me if you spend a lot of your time with the Family, and have two female Family members pregnant to you at the same time (Kitty and Sandy) then onlookers might just start to believe that you are a member of the Family.

Having said that, I don't for one minute believe that if Bobby were released that he would be a threat to anyone.

Mr. Humphrat said...

Ann may I say you look ravishing in your new photo. I've got to know who does your hair!

Robert Hendrickson said...

When I come across ANY controversial writings, I NOW first look up the age of the "person" in question and SEE how THEY responded to the WAR.

Capote - born in 1924 would have been the "perfect" soldier AGE for WW II, BUT apparently decided to suck his way out of that one.

BERNIE: I would disappear NOW - before YOU become more dispised than Charles Manson. He, at least, ENDED the war YOU so protested against.

Mr. Humphrat said...

Yeah Robert can't you just see Truman Capote on the beach in Normandy storming the bunkers? LOL.

AustinAnn74 said...

Mr. Humphrat, I had my hair done yesterday, because I was going out to a concert to see the "Buena Vista Social Club." Thank you!

equinox12314 said...


@AustinAnn74

Love the new photo Ann. The belle of Texas!!

equinox12314 said...


Robert Hendrickson said...

"..BUT apparently decided to suck his way out of that one."

In Capote's case, that phrase would definitely seem appropriate.:)

Matt said...

Actually equinox, that was a great way to beat the Vietnam draft. During boot camp otherwise completely heterosexual young guys would "get caught" pleasing one another knowing it was an automatic discharge from the army.


equinox12314 said...


Matt said...
"
Actually equinox, that was a great way to beat the Vietnam draft. During boot camp otherwise completely heterosexual young guys would "get caught" pleasing one another knowing it was an automatic discharge from the army."

@Matt,

I believe this entirely. Out of the young guys who were at Spahn, I wonder how many of them should have been doing service in Vietnam? I know Bobby B gave a convoluted story of how he dressed up as a simpleton to avoid the draft (as if he needed to dress up!) Maybe our resident Vietnam expert, Mr H, could enlighten us.

Matt said...

To be clear, I'd prefer to be machine-gunned by the Viet Cong...


equinox12314 said...


Matt said...

"To be clear, I'd prefer to be machine-gunned by the Viet Cong..."

HAHAHA We wouldn't expect anything less from our very own Love God:)

Robert Hendrickson said...

Maybe I can address Christopher, Grim and EQ with this one comment:

Here is how Bernie Sanders, the "draft" and draft-dodgers along with other criminals not unlike certain members of the Manson Family ALL relate to "back-then" and NOW.

YES: Members of the Manson Family were hiding out (evading) the military draft. Paul Watkins and Brooks Poston being the better known.

AND, as well "Bernie" was dodging IT by the more sophisticated WHITE "educated" man's (Conscientious Objector) method. Apparently, HE graduated collage in 1964 and was then faced with LBJ's "escalation" of the Vietnam Conflict.

Paul and Brooks were specifically "excused" for "evading" in exchange for testifying against Manson. BUT Bernie likely NEVER looked ahead to the future when HE would seek the US Presidency. AND because HE also spent from 1964 - 1968 "protesting" the WAR instead of "serving" HIS country - well, YOU get the picture - or maybe YOU don't.

You SEE, even as a "conscientious objector" you can "serve" like as in being a "medic." BUT most likely, Bernie had the "I'm NOT gonna DIE for THEM" attitude. "That's for BLACK and BROWN boys."

HE did NOT have the ability to comprehend future insights. Of course, neither did many such characters of that time. AND because HIS "selfish act" involved Mr. EVIL (LBJ himsel), HE may have gotten a lifetime membership in the Manson Family, BUT now HE can only bring back a time when the America Democrat Party was the "racist" PIG of the day.

There are already documentarys out and coming out that reveal just how the BLACKS and BROWNS were "used" as cadavors to advance the careers of guys like Bernie Sanders.

How about "Will YOU die for ME" by Bernie Sanders.

equinox12314 said...


Robert Hendrickson said...

"..You SEE, even as a "conscientious objector" you can "serve" like as in being a "medic." BUT most likely, Bernie had the "I'm NOT gonna DIE for THEM" attitude."

Hi Mr H,

Apparently, Sanders struck lucky because by the time his conscientious objector application was turned down, he was too old for the draft anyway. I am sure when people who lost loved ones in Vietnam go to the polls, they will keep this in mind.

I always laugh at your comments about LBJ!

D. LaCalandra said...

Nearly ever writer has an inflated ego and wants to be looked at as one of "the greats" and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know you can't do that without compelling material. Their entire life depends on it. But unfortunately for them, it's rarely what they get and they compensate with their disillusion with fiction and their own imagination (they call it "narrative nonfiction" now). This is evident in the homoerotic tone of the final piece. He had an idealized scenario in his mind and when he didn't get it, he created it.

George Stimson said...

"George, would you clarify for me, as far as you are able to do so, whether it is true that Bobby was visited in Los Angeles County Jail by one of the Family women (Linda K?) whom he told that they (the Family ) better get him out of there, or he would cut a deal with the DA. This may be simply untrue which is why I would appreciate your input."

Equinox, I'm not aware of any such visit or ultimatum.

equinox12314 said...


George Stimson said...

"Equinox, I'm not aware of any such visit or ultimatum."

Thanks, George

Mr. Humphrat said...

Matt said...

"To be clear, I'd prefer to be machine-gunned by the Viet Cong..."

Please don't judge every man-man relationship based on your unfortunate
experimentation with the Colonel!

ColScott said...

why was it unfortunate?

Mr. Humphrat said...

Ha! I got the Colonel to rear his head.

beauders said...

Austin Ann first you are a very beautiful woman. Secondly Booby oh I mean Bobby has five children, the first being with some anonymous 13 year he got pregnant before his Manson days (why are most of the Family men pedophiles?). While he was with the Family he had four women pregnant at the same time, being his supposed wife Gail, Kitty Lutesinger, Mary Brunner, and Linda Kasabian. Busy non member of the Famiy. Supposedly all these children have had DNA tests and they are his. Five children who he has never financially supported raised by single moms, except Ivan (Good's son) who was taken in by a family who was friends of Goods and raised by them.

equinox12314 said...

ColScott said...

"why was it unfortunate?"

Matt has been worried that in the event of you two splitting up he would have to pay you alimony and a lump sum.

equinox12314 said...


beavers said..

"...he had four women pregnant at the same time, being his supposed wife Gail, Kitty Lutesinger, Mary Brunner, and Linda Kasabian."

What was the name of Bobby's child to Mary Brunner? Do you have a source for Kasabian's son having had a DNA test? I knew that tests had been done in respect of the children by Sandy, Gail and Kitty.

equinox12314 said...


Apologies - in the post above, I have referred to 'beavers' when I obviously meant 'beauders'

christopher butche said...

Mr Hendrickson, why the downer on LBJ when he stepped down after one term? Surely if he was that evil he would have held on to power?

An interesting point you bring up about how newer eyes will tar Sanders as racist for choosing to save himself and not ethnic minorities who were drafted. Reminds me of trawling through decades of parole hearings for the family and the race element of Helter Skelter isn't mentioned until more recently (along with the domestic terror aspect, another new fear).

I feel obliged to mention that Tex could not have joined the army as he had damaged his knee in a car accident.

Matt, Iggy Pop apparently went the 'screaming queen' route to spectacularly fail his draft interview.

ziggyosterberg said...


From the biography of Jim Morrison, 'No One Here Gets Out Alive' :

"Jim tampered with his blood pressure, blood sugar, heartbeat, respiration, vision, and speech with a wide and plentiful assortment of drugs, marched into the army induction centre for his physical, told the doctors he was a homosexual and if they took him they'd be the sorriest motherfuckers on the face of the earth. He was refused for service."

AustinAnn74 said...

Beauders, thank you. I've never heard of BB fathering a child with Mary Brunner. I thought Mary had gotten pregnant way back in 67 by CM? I knew of Kitty & Sandy definitely getting pregnant by BB, but didn't know about the other women.

beauders said...

Oops I meant Sandra Good, Kitty Lutesinger, his wife Gail, and Linda Kasabian. Mary Brunner was not in the line-up.

Mr. Humphrat said...

I only knew about Lutsinger's baby by him. Interesting. Learn more every day thanks to you all.
Butche good point on LBJ stepping down in 68. On his tapes you can hear his extreme reluctance to run even in 64. And he felt pressure to be tough on the commies partly from campaigning against Goldwater.
Also, as far as Bernie Sanders saving his own skin getting out of the draft, most of those kids, including the poor minorities who had to go, would have tried to save their own skin if they could have. I'm not discounting the substantial amount who were brave and went.
And did Capote actually GO to bootcamp and get 'caught' giving head or did he just get out at his interview?

equinox12314 said...


beauders said...

".. and Linda Kasabian."

You state that "..Supposedly all these children have had DNA tests and they are his." Where is your source that there was a DNA test done on Linda Kasabian's son? I am only asking because perhaps you have a source for this which has not been previously made available to anyone else who studies this case.

Robert Hendrickson said...

CHRISTOPHER: I wish you would elaborate on YOUR findings concerning the Parole hearings. Remember, for ten years AFTER the Vietnam WAR, it was never mentioned in public schools / text books. That threw a wrench into the whole education system and began the "political" agenda education system in America.

I call "LBJ" EVIL in hopes it will ignite a thoughtful comparison with Charles Manson. THEIR only significant difference seems to be: ONE actually ignited a WAR and ONE ended it. Kind'a like the Alfa / Omega.

AND because the whole BLACK / BROWN boys do our fighting for us ISSUE is NOW moving to the forefront. Of course, even in the US Civil WAR of a 100 years ago, the percentage of BLACKS in the Union Army was 10 times the percentage of BLACKS in the US. Nothing really changed that much and then along came LBJ (the GREAT civil Rights champion) and HE created perhaps the most dispicable RACIAL situation ever played upon a human race in modern times. The RIGHT to affirmative "action" in the rice paddies of Vietnam.

I almost can't wait for "Bernie Sanders" to stand at the pulpit of the AME church and thank ALL his BLACK supporters for giving HIM the chance to be THEIR man in the WHITE house. They got on their knees for LBJ - let us SEE if they do it again - this time for BS.

equinox12314 said...


Mr Humphrat said...

"..I only knew about Lutsinger's baby by him."

@Mr Humphrat

I was only aware of the children to Kitty, Gail, and Sandy.

christopher butche said...

Mr Hendrickson, I will have a look through, but you should notice the race/terror element is an issue in say van Houten's most recent hearing.

Mr Smalldino "...And I think we have some of these other type of hearings coming up with some of these terrorist acts. And really, these people were terrorists"

Mr DiMaria "...Consider Leslie Van Houten's racist, terrorist intentions in the months leading to the Hinman murder mid-1969"

(Presiding Commissioner summing up) "Race was clearly a factor in your crimes. While you acknowledge that you had no close friends at the time that were African Americans, you made no mention of how your experiences and how your beliefs contributed to your ideology at that time."

christopher butche said...

During his 2010 hearing Beausoleil is accused of 'terrorizing' Los Angeles.

But that is more of an expressive use of the word rather than political.

In some respects if their crimes do become viewed as (political) acts of terror, there is a chance that they may one day be viewed as political prisoners (say 100 years from now).

By enlarging the scope of the killings original motive to encompass violent revolution LA DA's may well end up elevating Manson into a bona fide anti-establishment freedom fighter (imagine Che Guevara without the beret and less homophobic).

MHN said...

Homophobia was the least of Guevara's issues. He was nothing short of a genocidal fascist.

But he was cute and kinda creative. Say, think I'll print me a Cupid t-shirt.

grimtraveller said...

equinox12314 said...


"beauders said...

'.. and Linda Kasabian.'

You state that '..Supposedly all these children have had DNA tests and they are his.' Where is your source that there was a DNA test done on Linda Kasabian's son ?"


Linda Kasabian says she came to Spahn on Independence day. She remembered the date because she was meant to go to the beach with friends as it was a holiday but fell out with Bob so came to Spahn with Gypsy instead. Just over 5 weeks later on the night of the LaBianca murders, while walking in the sand, she told Charlie she was pregnant. She later told law enforcement that she thought she'd conceived the last time she was with her husband and she eventually had the child in early March 1970. Unless she had known Bobby before she came to Spahn and had sex with him while still with her husband or unless the baby Angel, was a month or more premature, then there is no way Bobby could be the Dad. The baby had to have been conceived in early June of '69 to have a birth date of March 7th.
It's the DNA of it's day......
It's science we can all agree on !

Robert Hendrickson said...

CHRISTOPHER:

Then you probably understand that the "FUTURE" is being created as we speak.

Unfortunately, the "establishment" understands that also AND they are NOT going to give-up any "ground" unless they have to. THUS, when the time is RIGHT, they will turn Charlie Manson into THEIR hero !

Remember - it ain't OVER until the little guy SINGS.

equinox12314 said...


grim traveller said...

"...Linda Kasabian says she came to Spahn on Independence day. She remembered the date because she was meant to go to the beach with friends as it was a holiday but fell out with Bob so came to Spahn with Gypsy instead. Just over 5 weeks later on the night of the LaBianca murders, while walking in the sand, she told Charlie she was pregnant. She later told law enforcement that she thought she'd conceived the last time she was with her husband and she eventually had the child in early March 1970. Unless she had known Bobby before she came to Spahn and had sex with him while still with her husband or unless the baby Angel, was a month or more premature, then there is no way Bobby could be the Dad. The baby had to have been conceived in early June of '69 to have a birth date of March 7th."

Thank you, but those of us who have read widely on the case already know these details. My query was to Beauders as she was the one stating that BB was the father of LK's second child. I inquired as to HER source.

beauders said...

I don't remember where I heard this but I think it was Kasabian herself in one of her few interviews.

Matt said...

beauders are you saying that Michael Brunner is Bobby's and not Manson's?

equinox12314 said...


@beauders

Thanks beauders. I know where you're coming from because when you read so much about this case it's difficult to remember who said what and where!! The thing about Kasabian is that it looked like sadly there were numerous candidates as the daddy:):)

I do agree with your observation that BB has fathered a number of kiddies and got out of maintaining them.

Matt said...

Sorry beauders. I just saw your follow-up comment...

ColScott said...

Beauders is wrong on almost all of those paternity statements. As the great Col always says, STFU and don't make shit up.

christopher butche said...

Back to the draft, back in 2005 Beausoleil attempted to join up,"... though I did not believe in the Vietnam conflict I went and signed up for the draft. I was immediately inducted, however I was rejected for a bad ear." Pretty sure it was early 1969, classified 4F.

Fiddy 8 said...

Ted Nugent in a High Times interview from 1977:

"I got my physical notice 30 days prior to. Well, on that day I ceased cleansing my body. No more brushing my teeth, no more washing my hair, no baths, no soap, no water. Thirty days of debris build. I stopped shavin' and I was 18, had a little scraggly beard, really looked like a hippie. I had long hair, and it started gettin' kinky, matted up. Then two weeks before, I stopped eating any food with nutritional value. I just had chips, Pepsi, beer-stuff I never touched-buttered poop, little jars of Polish sausages, and I'd drink the syrup, I was this side of death, Then a week before, I stopped going to the bathroom. I did it in my pants. poop, piss the whole shot. My pants got crusted up.

"So I went in, and those guys in uniform couldn't believe the smell. They were ridiculin' me and pushin' me around and I was cryin', but all the time I was laughin' to myself. When they stuck the needle in my arm for the blood test I passed out, and when I came to they were kicking me into the wall. Then they made everybody take off their pants, and I did, and this sergeant says, "Oh my God, put those back on! You fucking swine you!" Then they had a urine test and I couldn't piss, But my poop was just like ooze, man, so I poop in the cup and put it on the counter. I had poop on my hand and my arm. The guy almost puked. I was so proud. I knew I had these chumps beat. The last thing I remember was wakin' up in the ear test booth and they were sweepin' up. So I went home and cleaned up.

But you know the funny thing about it? I'd make an incredible army man. I'd be a colonel before you knew what hit you, and I'd have the baddest bunch of motherfuckin' killers you'd ever seen in my platoon. But I just wasn't into it."

Fiddy 8 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fiddy 8 said...

Also, Snopes has this posted about Ted Nugent:

Questioned about that account some thirty years later (by which time Nugent was known as a staunch political conservative, a supporter of the Republican Party, and and advocate of hunting and gun ownership rights) in an interview with the UK's Independent newspaper, Nugent disclaimed that previous account of his draft-evading activities as story he had made up and fed to a gullible High Times reporter and asserted that he actually had avoided the draft through the legitimate means of a student deferment.

________________________


"I never shit my pants to get out of the draft," says Nugent, good-naturedly.

"You also told them you took crystal meth before the medical — as a result of which, and I quote: 'I got this big juicy 4F.'"

"Unbelievable. Meth," he replies, in a tone of deep sarcasm. "Yes, that's my drug of choice. You've got to realise that these interviewers would arrive with glazed eyes and I would make stories up. I never did crystal meth. And I never pooped my pants."

"But you did dodge the draft."

"I had a 1Y [student deferment]. I enrolled at Oakland Community College."

"You said then that you wanted 'to teach the stupid bastards in the military a lesson'. I'd have thought you'd have loved the army. Guns. Travel. Danger."

"Back then, I didn't even understand what World War II was."

"So basically, — I admit that I have, unaccountably, started to speak Nugent — "you didn't want to get your Michigan ass blown off in Vietnam."

"Correct. I did not want to get my ass blown off in Vietnam."

beauders said...

Colonel I was just going to ignore you and your nastiness but this is the second time you have insulted me. You are a bully, you insult anyone you disagree with. Why don't you ask your good friend the torture murderer how many children he has before slamming me-he claims every single one I listed. Since you stopped writing for your blog, you have become irrelevant. Everyone jokes about you and Matt, but the relationship you have with Beausoleil is the one I wonder about. Tex is scum but so is Bobby. He tortured a good friend who had tried to help him for three days. Even Watson didn't do that. You should be ashamed of your association with this man. I'm glad he got sent back to California, especially Tracy, the armpit of the California prison system. Oregon was too easy on him now he'll live and die in the cesspool where he belongs. He's never getting out and hopefully the people who he pissed off enough to get sent to Oregon, will now catch up to him. I really don't think he'll be able to make suck ass music or draw kiddie porn when they get back in touch with him and break all his fingers. He is an arrogant buffoon and so are you, maybe that's the attraction. You deserve each other.

christopher butche said...

I've always thought that 'torture' was a bit strong, 'unlawful imprisonment' and 'denying medical treatment' strike me as more appropriate. The wound Manson inflicted was I believe not fatal as of itself had it been treated.

As to the children, the last three or so hearings he claims the one with Lutesinger and three others 'by marriage' ie step-children. Making four in total.

It is my understanding Sandy Good has never revealed the father of her child, at various times I have understood him to have been Steve Grogan.

Mentioned elsewhere, I see also in a recent hearing Beausolieu not claiming to have been a member of Love, but its proto band Grass Roots.

To be fair to the Col at least he his offering Beausoleil a job if paroled, thus releasing the California tax payer from the burden of paying for him for the first time in over 45 years.

equinox12314 said...

christopher butche said...

"To be fair to the Col at least he his offering Beausoleil a job if paroled, thus releasing the California tax payer from the burden of paying for him for the first time in over 45 years."

In the unlikely event of the California Parole Board and, thereafter, the Governor permitting BB's release, I don't think he would be allowed to take up this kind of work. My reason is this, a while back I started reading up on some of the Aryan Brotherhood members. While in prison, one of them did paralegal training and had a job fixed up in an attorney's office for his release. In the transcript of his California Parole Board hearing, they told him that that type of employment was unacceptable, and that it would have to be a trade. Obviously, I don't know if that is a hardfast policy of theirs, but I can't see the CPB wanting BB in the entertainment industry. We also don't know if the Col's offer still stands.

Bobby is definitely the father of Ivan Pugh. DNA testing was done. Ivan employs his half sister (Gail's daughter) at his restaurant in Texas. On his Facebook page, he is featuring one of BB's paintings. Ivan seems to be a lovely guy and a credit to the nice couple that brought him up.

As for BB's membership of 'Love' the narrative which I posted above was written by Bobby in 2006 and then reprinted by him in late 2014 on his Facebook page - he did not edit out the bit about being a band member.

christopher butche said...

Equinox, you never know, seeing Beausoleil face to face rather than down the end of a bad telephone line, they may feel the warmth of his sincerity and parole him.

Perhaps it's just his telephone manner that gets the presiding commissioner's back up?

On a more serious note, I do get the impression that each of the convicted men are regarded as the 'right-hand man' of Manson. A kind of latent sexism in that only the women were swayed with their feeble minds, but the men, being made of stronger man-character, must have played a more active role in the planning of all race wars.

The perceived gender stereotyping of Beausoleil as an arrogant macho man renders him unsympathetic for the portrayal of an impressionable 19 year old wannabe outlaw who was way out of his depth with his chosen peer group.

Had he been convicted in his first trial, he may well have avoided such a lengthy sentence, been paroled around the same time as Grogan and then go on to become the next Barbara Hoyt.

equinox12314 said...

@christopher butche

I agree with you about the face to face hearing this time round. Obviously, the hearings held down the phone have been difficult due to technical issues, and perhaps Bobby felt he has to be more forceful over the phone to make his points. He mght be a more sympathetic candidate in person. I wonder if the CPB have moved it to an 'in person' hearing because they are more amenable to releasing him. There is also the issue of the 115 violation which Bobby has been fighting. If it was upheld, we will get to find out what it was all about! It will be interesting to read the transcript after Dec 8th. To me, the most helpful thing for BB would be to stop changing his story.

The infö where Bobby discusses his kids is in the 2010 hearing in a response to Deputy Commissioner Martin. It is also Martin who tells him that his parole employment plans are unrealistic.

Christopher, you make a very pertinent point about the gender stereotyping because as you say, Bobby was young when he met up with the others and vulnerable to the influence of a life time crook and conman, irrespective of his sex.

Robert Hendrickson said...

KEVIN:

I saw GS when it came out and I remember the news reports when the deadly concert happened. For ME it wasn't DARK, but exciting. ALL my generation coming to the event with the pounding "Stones" sound was like one would hope the "second coming" should be.

The REVOLUTION was on !! Those who talk of the sixties as "terrible times"
either couldn't get laid in a whore house with a $100 bill in their hand OR were just like "TED" the poop-butt.

How pathetic - the "establishment" had to turn "kids" into KILLERS and MR. Policeman had to "BEAT" woman and children in the public streets.

I just saw a show last night where they confirmed that the word "PIG" was officially applied to the cops at the 1968 Democratic Convention where NAZIBATION was apparently "born again." YES the Black Panthers first used "pig" as a lable for the police, but it really took hold in Chicago that ugly day.

Of course, that is a relevant CLUE related to the Tate / LaBianca Massacre, BUT the Prosecutor did such a wonderful job of distorting the TRUTH, most folks will NEVER even understand where babies come from OR what is a BLACK Muslim.

Mr. Humphrat said...

Does anyone know did Capote make up having met Lee Oswald in Moscow after he defected?

equinox12314 said...


Grim traveller said...

"That would've been truer of other fémmes de la famille but not Kasabian at that time."

How do you know for sure? Do you know her personally, or did you know her or her inner circle of friends at that particular point in time? Are you basing your assertion on an interview she granted, because she was hardly likely to be frank about whom she was sleeping with.

ColScott said...

Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel writes: Colonel I was just going to ignore you and your nastiness but this is the second time you have insulted me. You are a bully, you insult anyone you disagree with. Why don't you ask your good friend the torture murderer how many children he has before slamming me-he claims every single one I listed. Since you stopped writing for your blog, you have become irrelevant. Everyone jokes about you and Matt, but the relationship you have with Beausoleil is the one I wonder about. Tex is scum but so is Bobby. He tortured a good friend who had tried to help him for three days. Even Watson didn't do that. You should be ashamed of your association with this man. I'm glad he got sent back to California, especially Tracy, the armpit of the California prison system. Oregon was too easy on him now he'll live and die in the cesspool where he belongs. He's never getting out and hopefully the people who he pissed off enough to get sent to Oregon, will now catch up to him. I really don't think he'll be able to make suck ass music or draw kiddie porn when they get back in touch with him and break all his fingers. He is an arrogant buffoon and so are you, maybe that's the attraction. You deserve each other.

The Col responds: I insulted you because you are an idiot spouting nonsense on an internet forum. I called you on your lies and told you to stfu and only speak of what you know. Mr. Beausoleil is not the father of Michael Valentine Manson and no one has ever stated that before save for yourself. I could delve into your other statements but they remain equally uninformed.
The Col thinks you should look at what bullying means before you start crying all butthurt at being exposed for idiocy. I do not insult those who I disagree with I insult those who are just WRONG. There is some weird internet warrior thought that one is "entitled to their own opinion." This is inaccurate. And a fact is not an opinion in either case.
You falsely call Mr. Beausoleil "my good friend" as a means to insult and attack me, ignorant (as always) of the fact I have had virtually no interaction with him in a decade. You ignorantly claim he admits to all those paternities when he does not. You call Hinman a good friend of Mr. Beausoleil's when in fact you are ignorant again, he was a friend of Mary's. You ignorantly try to equate Watson's seven slaughtered bodies including a 9 month pregnant woman with Beausoleil's one. You sadly and pathetically then go on to wish harm to a fellow human being. You do all of this because you are angry and frustrated that your lack of education and intelligence have limited your station in life.
It is clear to anyone who reads your nonsense you are desperate to matter. You in fact state I no longer matter since I ceased blogging. Yet I ceased for a good reason and you never even started.
It must be the saddest thing ever to wake up every day like you do, look in the mirror then have to sweep the floors of the local lavatory. But somebody needs to do it.

MHN said...

Colon Scrotum: For some reason Matt always seeks to assure us that in real-life you are funny and kind, though remarkably ugly - his words. He explained everything, and I want you to know that we understand, we don't hate you; we know you are angry, we know how much it must have hurt when, on your 15th birthday, mommy said you couldn't have her boobies to suck on anymore, and pushed you away, and you were stood there with hot tears streaming down your big cheeks and dripping onto your shriveling little erection. We've all been there buddy, don't beat yourself up about it - just keep beating off about it and things will feel better.

So Beauders talked about paternity / maternity issues, the area that brings back all the Bad Memories for you, and you flew off the handle and started lashing out. We feel for you. Sure, if you were a dog we'd have zipped you in a bag and thrown you in a river by now, to free you from the rage that has blighted your life and made you impotent, but as you are technically and legally a fellow human being, we want to try to help you. Let's start:

"I insult those who are just WRONG"

Colon, you don't have to. You can simply correct them! That way you look like a man, rather than an angry little boy with a big red puffy face and tiny hairless balls.


christopher butche said...

Mr Stimson, I suppose it could be argued that Capote was a writer and not a journalist. The distinction being that he would be more concerned with creative writing than reporting.

However, I did notice the DA from van Houten's most recent hearing quoting her from John Water's Role Models.

Not too mention the shoe-horning in of Davis being Zodiac at his.

All these examples are not testimony from court proceedings but from published non-fiction and they do seem to be made frequently. To paraphrase Manson at his (1992?) hearing when his crimes are being read into the record he asks which book is that from?

I was interested to read your final paragraph implying Beausoleil's action led to the more notorious murders. In a similar fashion to the parole hearings it could be argued Beausoleil was never convicted on a conspiracy count or gave testimony regarding them.

ColScott said...

MHN- I am glad you felt the need to exercise your humor skills. It is sad that is all you could muster. I went to your homepage http://tinyurl.com/ggc and realize now why you are so backed up with emotion.

I mean "Colon"? That is not at all clever. No wonder you add nothing to the discussion!

MHN said...

Ah, just when we all thought the old rate-my-poo gag had well and truly run its course, along comes the Col to squeeze one last cold boring turd-stain from its stale old sphincter.

I couldn't tell whether it was a reference to Rudy Guede or a sly pun on the shit Hugh Jackman robot-boxing comedy Real Stool.

Come on man, if you're going to be a douchebag you might as well amuse us while you do it! This is lazy and lame, we expect better from you, fucker.






St Circumstance said...

You look amazing Ann!!

St Circumstance said...

interesting Post George! I too hope things are getting better ;)

beauders said...

Colonel can't you read, I corrected my mistake in a later post. Big deal I made a mistake and wrote Mary Brunner and meant Sandra Good. In fact I never said Michael Valentine Manson was anyone's son, but like I said you must not be able to read. You can try to insult my education and intellectual level but I have a feeling that I went just as far in school, as you if not further. You know nothing about me or what I have done with my life. So go fuck yourself because I can't believe any woman would put up with your misogyny. But thanks for liking us queers.

Jody Welch said...

Has anyone heard any recent news about Bobby? Was he really moved back to California. Is his cancelled parole hearing rescheduled yet?

Matt said...

Hi Jody, the Bobby transfer story is HERE

The date was moved again when Bobby was transferred back to CA. The new date is Dec. 8, 2015.



beauders said...

You're real bright aren't you Joseph, and actually I was raised Catholic.

MHN said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
beauders said...

Intelligent and classy you must be a real treat Joseph.

Jody Welch said...

Thank you Matt. I appreciate your reply. 😃

xreles said...

Colon Scrotum from his mother.

ColScott said...

xreles- you are so weak you can't even make sense much less BE FUNNY

Mr. Humphrat said...

ColScott you produce movies. Have you ever wanted to or had the resources to venture into a Manson movie? At least it would be legit.

grimtraveller said...

equinox12314 said...


Grim traveller said...

"That would've been truer of other fémmes de la famille but not Kasabian at that time."

How do you know for sure?"


Simple biology. It's a straightforward matter to work out from when a child is born, the window in which the mother got pregnant. Angel arrived in March '70. Linda arrived at Spahn on Independence day '69.


equinox12314 said...

"Do you know her personally, or did you know her or her inner circle of friends at that particular point in time? Are you basing your assertion on an interview she granted, because she was hardly likely to be frank about whom she was sleeping with"


No, I do not know her personally, I've never met her and if I've ever rubbed shoulders with, walked or driven past, flown with or eaten next to any members of her inner circle at the time, I wouldn't have a clue. Until you posed the question, such a thing has never even occurred to me. Neither do I base my thoughts on any particular interview she's given, which is partly why, like you, I'm interested in beauders' source of BB's paternity of Angel. She did state at trial though, for all the world to hear and ponder, that she had had sex with all of the guys at the ranch "except Larry" which, I for one, take as pretty specific and frank.


grimtraveller said...


Blogger George Stimson said...

"But what was really surprising to me was that as much as I thought that the quotes attributed to Beausoleil by Capote had very likely been mangled and misrepresentative, I couldn't dismiss them as completely fabricated because they did sound like things that Beausoleil would have said at about that time in his life (early '70s). I've seen letters and other material from Beausoleil's time on Death Row that testify to a state of mind similar to that expressed in the interview, to cockiness, swagger, and braggadocio. So his words in the interview did sound like things I think he might have said when he was on Death Row"


And if you look at the words of Bobby in the book "The Garbage people" by John Gilmour that appeared in 1971, one will note that he comes across in exactly the same way. The interviews for the book were done in '69/70 {Gilmour did about 12 jailhouse interviews with Charlie too} and they cast a long shadow over Bobby's present day, or should I say, more latter day, claims about what happened and most telling, his involvement in crime {and his criminality has nothing to do with Charlie}. The book goes nowadays as "Manson: The unholy trail of Charlie & the Family."
As an aside, why do updated versions of books {it's happened with "Trial by your peers" becoming "Blood Family" and "Without conscience" becoming "Manson in his own words"} end up with such lame titles when the original titles were actually more incisive ?