Thursday, February 18, 2016

Charles Manson???

While looking up things for a post on the blog, every so often stuff pops up that seems like it might be an unearthed treasure.  Upon further reading it turns out that what was found has nothing to do with the Manson Saga.  These are a few of the things I've run across that have made me do a double take, then chuckle or shake my head when reality set in.

Ed Sanders and Maury Terry really missed an opportunity with this first article.  Just think of the conspiracy theories they could have come up with had they stumbled on this one!


WOW!  Charles Manson was murdered.  The timing was right, July 1967, Charlie was out of prison.  The location was right, Oakland CA, right next door to Berkeley in the San Francisco Bay Area.  The age is certainly in the ballpark, about 34 years old.  What could be wrong?

I was curious enough about this one that I located a relative of this Charles Manson and sent her a message through Ancestry.com.   She was a cousin and young at the time of the murder.  Her mom and aunt had given her just the bare facts and she had some unanswered questions.  I was able to email her the article, which she had never seen, and in turn she sent me pictures of her cousin.




This next one is more humorous than anything else.  The mind plays tricks, seeing what you want to see and not necessarily what is really there.

From the Ukiah newspaper.  Was the Manson Family doing an LSD musical production in Mendocino County in 1968? 


What do you want to bet that there was never a revival of this production after 1969!

Then I came upon something that was purported to be an actual photo of the Manson Family.  The photo appeared in the April 1970 issue of Men's Digest accompanying an article titled "MODERN WITCHCRAFT Part 20- Charles Manson and his cult of Black Magic."

The article was predictable and rehashed the many rehashed stories about the Family written up until that time.  But the photo, OMG, had I found the Holy Grail of Family images?  A picture of the Family at Dennis Wilson's home with Dennis in the picture.  Okay, so the caption doesn't say they are at Wilson's home nor is Dennis mentioned but the home is very nice looking, well furnished and it certainly is not Spahn or Barker.  And, there is a resemblance between the guy sitting in the wing chair in the upper right and Dennis.  The caption begins, Charles Manson, sitting on a rug in the foreground......


I contacted Jon Aes-Nihil to ask about this amazing find.  He had never seen the picture, so he fired up the Helter Skelter Telegraph.  A frenzy of emails and phone calls ensued.  Comparisons were made of the people in the photo, that could be so and so, this could be such and such, shouldn't  a tattoo be here or there.  We were flummoxed and wanted to believe it could be true.  Then one of the Skelter-ites asked, "Is there a photo credit?"  Brilliant!  

There was no credit on or around the photo itself so I went looking through the magazine.  I found what I was looking for.  Right there on the index page down in the lower left corner buried in the publishing info with the smallest print ever, it read, Photos in MEN'S DIGEST posed by professional models.  What a giant letdown......

So if you ever see this photo, which someone will undoubtedly poach from the blog, and it claims to be the real deal, you will know better!

I will leave you with a great Blues tune by none other than Charlie Manson.  This song is titled Nineteen Women Blues.   oo-ee-oo

The song is on a CD titled Mama Let Me Lay It On You 1926-1936. 







64 comments:

CarolMR said...

What happened to the post from last night about Gary Hinman? Or was I dreaming?

George Stimson said...

It's being reworked.

CarolMR said...

Thanks, George.

Manson Family Archives said...

It looks to me Men's Digest used a photo of random hippies and said it was the Family. I don't see Charlie anywhere in that photo. One girl resembles Mary Brunner, but that's about it.

DebS said...

MFA, as I noted in my post, the people in the photo are actors, not a single one is remotely associated with the Family. I still would like someone to come up with an authentic photo of anyone in the Family at Dennis's, preferably with Dennis in the picture!!

Matt said...

"Mama let me lay it on you". Are you sure a different Manson wrote that?


Still Grooving said...

I enjoyed the post. Hmmmm, LSD and LDS. Of course, we all know that LDS is Latter Day Saints, as in Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the Mormons. They are a very religious bunch, but have a few things in common with Charlie's family. They treat their women like crap and follow along blindly when the church leaders give them orders.

grimtraveller said...

I'm just laughing at the fact that of the three Charles Mansons in this thread, two of them are Black !

Logan said...

WOW...what an incredible post...Charlie Manson the delta bluesman...it's this kind of stuff that really makes me go "huh" at all of these fantastic coincidences. Reality and the history you guys glean from what gets left behind are really trippy as hell...

"Can't you listen, listen to the blues they're playin'...Aw man, it's really fine..."

"If god is one, what is bad?"

Logan said...

Also the LSD/LDS Manson family connection made me LOL

orwhut said...

When I saw the heading about a slaying on a stairway, I immediately thought of Sadie.

DebS said...

Matt, it had to be a different Manson, our Charlie was only two when the last song was written!

Still Grooving, ironic isn't it? The Mormon's are thought by some to be a cult, too.

Logan, look for the CD on Youtube. The whole album is really good but I am partial to the old blues tunes.

orwhut, I thought of Mary Brunner!

Grim, that was the shortest comment I've ever seen you make! Yep, two out of three were Black. Go figure.....

orwhut said...

Deb,
I'm lost. Sadie left a butt egg on the stairs. What did Mary do?

Jenn said...

There's a great recording of the song by the very interesting Blind Boy Fuller, a fine Piedmont blues singer and player.

Robert Hendrickson said...

Love this POST cause I always get a kick out of coincidence OR is it something else.

The Mormans used to have the swasiska as THEIR symble. I have a 100 year old post card that shows it. I also have a 1920's wanted poster for Charles Watson.

AND I don't want to hijack the subject here BUT: Most of you know about the F.B.I. wanting APPLE to hack the iphone of the San Berdenio TERROISTS. So WHY did the cops blast them to pieces with bullets?
The Cops could have just done the stand-down procedure AND WAITED FOR THE TERROSITS TO run out of bullets or food and water.

In L.A. we have cop / crim car chases almost daily and THEY always wait for the perps to give-up and lay down on their stomaches. So is there really a "COP mentality" that infects so stressful situations ? Cause YOU folks are NOT going to be happy with the "government" having YOUR personal info. AND that's for sure !


orwhut said...

When Apple finishes hacking the iphone, they can go to work on the Zodiac's code.

Still Grooving said...

The Mormon church was certainly a very segregated bunch of folks. They permitted blacks to become members of their church in the 20th century but it wasn't until around 1978 that they started allowing non-whites to hold leadership positions. I think it was kind of a "Oh, they have money too!" moment.

Robert, I have always been puzzled by the kill orders when a terrorist is backed into a corner. It makes sense to capture these people alive to interrogate and learn as much as possible. I certainly understand that if there's a situation where other people's lives are at stake there's a need to take them down quickly, and perhaps that was the situation in San Berardino.

As for Apple and hacking the phone, why not just take the cell phone up to Apple's corporate headquarters, ask them to hack into the phone, and get the information they need? That's not what the FBI folks want. They want to be able to get into ANYONE's phone anytime they want.

AustinAnn74 said...

There is a girl in that photo that looks very much like Pat Krenwinkel.

Matt said...

I noticed that too, AA.


Fiddy 8 said...

I wonder if Charlie is supposed to be the one guy grabbing the girl's boob, or the other guy lying down prone and staring at the blonde's crotch from 2 feet away.

Farflung said...

I think DebS has found some of the Family "glory holes" which have supplied many a myth.

Begin with a theory, and some confirmation bias, along with some porous research, and you've got a Manson-Elvis connection.

You're good at keeping me honest DebS.

AustinAnn74 said...

Instead of Kevin Bacon game called the "Oracle of Bacon" this is the "Oracle of Manson."

grimtraveller said...

AustinAnn74 said...

There is a girl in that photo that looks very much like Pat Krenwinkel

Would that be the one next to the piano leg ?
The 'Charlie' character looks like the guy that played him in the first and awful "Helter Skelter" film.


Sadie, Linda, Katie, Leslie, Mary, Gypsy, Ella Jo, Barbara Hoyt, Doris, Patty, Sharon & Debbie Tate, Ruby Pearl, Stephanie Schram, Snake, Rosemary LaBianca, Abigail Folger, Doris Day and Kitty......didn't Charlie end up with '19 Women' blues ? ☺ ☺ ☺

grimtraveller said...

DebS said...

Grim, that was the shortest comment I've ever seen you make!

Wasn't it just !

St Circumstance said...

Hey all! Very clever post Deb!! Lol :)

If I may send a side note to Mr. Hendrickson:

It seems an old time Black Panther was released today. Maybe a new interview from that perspective is coming ...

St Circumstance said...

Albert Woodfox I believe his name is

Robert Hendrickson said...

Thanks ST; It was Albert Woodfox. He served 43 years in "solitary confinement" as one of the "Angola 3" convicted of killing a prison guard. The Solitary Confinement was because HE was associated with the Black Panther Party.

So NOW I'm thinking: the Manson Family killers should be thanking GOD they aren't BLACK.

Hey, Albert - don't forget to thank Beyoncé for YOUR release.

BTW: there are reports of drive-bys shooting up police stations, so they may have to BAN Beyoncé and GUNS.


DebS said...

Yes, Fiddy8, the guy laying down looking like he's going in for a muff dive does look like it could be Charlie but the caption does say "Charles Manson, sitting on a rug in the foreground". So they were pretty clear about that. The guy sitting up on the rug has no tattoos, it can't be Charlie.

I think the photographers must have gotten a bunch of guys for the photo shoot that looked similar to Charlie and chose one out of the bunch to portray him. The guy sitting on the piano looks like Charlie, too, but again no tattoos. All of the guys have long hair and a beard. The girls have a more varied look.

DebS said...

Grimtraveller said...

DebS said...

Grim, that was the shortest comment I've ever seen you make!

Wasn't it just !

Grim, now you're just toying with me!

Fiddy 8 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fiddy 8 said...

A Tale of Three Charlies.

I don't get why that one Charlie is sitting on the piano. I don't know anything about Charlie's tattoos - maybe someone has done a mapping survey.

Thanks Deb, a funny, funny post to contrast the reality of the topic...an MFB classic for sure. This is the Manson Family on LDS. LOL

DebS said...

There are images online of the tats on the upper part of Charlie's forearms. He has a woman's head on each arm. Cielo Drive has a good picture of the tat on his right arm.

http://cielodrive.com/photo-archive/charles-manson-arm.php

orwhut said...


DebS said...
orwhut, I thought of Mary Brunner!

Deb,
Try as I might I can't figure out what Mary Brunner had to do with stairs. Did she watch Sadie take a dump. Orwhut?

penny lane said...

Kinda like Waco...blast the truth of the face of the earth..and then say " nothing to see here"....


AustinAnn74 said...

Personally, I'd love to see Beyonce banned. Just sayin.....

Matt said...

Before Destiny's Child became big I actually met them. I had no clue who they were. Even if I had I'm not sure I would have cared.


Robert Hendrickson said...

"Kinda like WACO... Blast the TRUTH off the face of the earth.. and then say "nothing to see here."

OPPS, we got a very aware person in the house.

I have a VHS copy of original WACO news footage BEFORE they edited it for public consumption.

Beyoncé is NOW "banned" in Florida - the cops refuse to "stand guard" at HER concerts there.

I think Rudy Guiliani NOW wants to "ban" ALL the Black Panthers from ANY super bowl games - until the Panthers change their name to WHITE Panthers OR PINK Puss*#?

Mr. Humphrat said...

Great finds Deb. These could all be considered alternate universe or parallel dimension Mansons-two versions of Charlie as the black man that separated from white Cincinnati Charlie back in time. The LDS Manson family who were the pure as driven snow family separated off from the darker side LSD family. And the actors trying to channel the Charles Manson family experience. They have some sort of karmic connection. It's as if there's a super bad ass cop out there named Robert Hendrickson
who needs to reunite with his opposite to become whole again.

DebS said...

orwhut I didn't realize you wanted a serious comment from me! The only reason I thought of Mary Brunner was because the first name of the woman who shot Charlie Manson was Mary, it had nothing to do with the stairs.

When I exchanged emails with Charlie Manson's cousin she told me the reason Mary Alexander shot Charlie was because he had just told her that he was leaving her to go back to his wife in Washington. He had two young sons that he would rather be there for than not. Alexander was sentenced to 3-5 years in prison for the murder.

Robert Hendrickson said...

HUMP: What a fantastic idea.

Did you know Dr. Hondorus, who was my mentor and Sharon Tate's personal counseler gave Karmic readings into past lives.
He even offered to get ME a position on Vampire Killers.

"Past life intersects with present life" ! Now, that could be a REAL intellectual NIGHTMARE on the big screen.

DebS said...

Robert I have never heard you expand on Elmer "Geronimo" Pratt, a Black Panther who was convicted and sentenced to 25 years to life in prison for the murder of Caroline Olsen. The murder happened in Santa Monica in 1968 but he was not brought to trial until 1972. The FBI was involved because of the COINTEL investigations into the Black Panther Party. Pratt was in prison for 27 years, eight of those years were spent in solitary confinement. He was finally freed in 1997 when it came to light that the LA DA's office and the FBI lied by omission in court about the chief witness in the case. The witness was an FBI informant with a shady background and that fact was never presented to the defense or the court.

Coincidentally Pratt's wife, Saundra, who was 8 months pregnant, was shot five times and left dead in a ditch on November 5, 1971 in LA County. It is said that her murder was never seriously investigated. As far as I know it was never solved and LA law enforcement and the FBI tried to blame warring factions within the BPP which Pratt learned later not to be true.

The LA DA's office naturally appealed Pratt's release but they lost. Pratt was eventually awarded $4.5 million for wrongful imprisonment. Mind you the arrest, investigation, trial andconviction of Pratt were happening at the same time as the arrest, investigation, trials and conviction of Manson et al by the very same DA's office!

penny lane said...

Robert...i would love to see the WACO vid Is that possible ?

Matt said...

That is a fascinating detail, Deb. A connection I never made. Wow!

orwhut said...

Deb,
Thanks! It's my fault. I only read the headlines and didn't realize the shooter was named Mary.
Whut

Robert Hendrickson said...

DEB: The sixties were actually very scary times with a "government" basicly controlled by one deranged J. Edgar Hoover.

The mere fact that the (Federal) F.B.I. was able to get local law enforcement to join in Hoover's criminal activities against American citizens (Blacks, Indians and Hippies) has left a dangerous scar on America's face that also relates to Charles Manson (the anti-hero)

IF the Blacks, Indians and Hippies did NOT have such BIG hearts, full of forgiveness, these United States would have been just another rusted train-wreck - long ago.

It also seems like every time a new train is built, it CRASHES also. Just look at "WACO the Lie by Linda Thompson" on Youtube.


Robert Hendrickson said...

I would like to add: It is entirely possible that the Manson Family was infiltrated by the F.B.I.

AND that Helter Skelter was influenced by same. YOU only have do some research into the F.B.I.s dealings with the Black Panthers to understand just how far the F.B.I. would go and MURDER was NOT a stop sign. It might also explain WHY Col Tate's hands were TIED.

penny lane said...

Robert..you said the sixties where scary times...scarier than now..??..i see the trump train rolling and dont know whether to laugh or cry..thats scary..

Robert Hendrickson said...

OMG Penny: That is a question that should be posed to EVERY US Presidential Candidate and they should be required to answer in written essay form for ALL to study before VOTING.

In the sixties ALL were of military draft age, BUT "none" were drafted. We even have a "socialist/Communist" running, who evaded the draft in the sixties, when America was at WAR with the Communists.

So I don't know IF the present times are MORE scary that the sixties, but they are sure MORE insane. Of course, I'm NOT even sure if "insane" is a BAD thing anymore.

YOU folks are really taxing MY brain these days, so I better check on eBay for any available marbles for sale. Last month I bought some and low and behold they had MY initials on them.

DebS said...

Penny I think today is equally as scary as it was back in the 60s but in different ways. Back in the 60s our parents taught us not to question the status quo, that the government had our best interests at heart and all was for our own good. The children of the 60s balked at that idea and began to ask questions. In doing so many wrongs were brought to light, government tried to sweep these questions under the rug but the younger generation persisted. Slogans such as "Don't trust anyone over 30" and "Question Authority" were the government's worse nightmare.

The covert programs such as COINTELPRO are a testament to the government's underhanded ways in those days. The actions of those who protested in the 60s paved the way for a more transparent government but it also drove the covert operations of the government deeper underground which in itself is scary as hell.

The scariness of the 60s was more contained to the US but today that scariness is global. The expectations of loyalty to the government and all it stood for was mostly implied in the 60s, today there are specific laws about how you should conduct yourself and if you don't follow those laws you could branded as a terrorist.

Farflung said...

I view the 60's as a Faustian transition period. "We" blindly followed the government, because they were the good guys. Defeated the NAZIs, rebuilt Europe, found a polio vaccine, walked on the moon, stopped Thalidomide, and were admired on a global level.

Four months after the lunar landing; My Lei became public, after an 18 month cover up. This wasn't Truth, Justice, the American Way. We were the bad guys, and we sort of knew it, but the commies were worse.

I witnessed American prestige decay and vanish overseas. We were the beacon which shined via setting a good example. The Berlin Airlift, and massive grain shipments to Africa. Americans are so generous, was often said. It must be a wounderful place.

We have gone from defeating a global powerhouse (NAZIs), to struggling in a country with a per capita income of around $900 a year. But we're "safe".

I feel the better living through more government ethos is going to end the same way it did for the Romans. Ultimately it may simply be a flaw universal to our species.

orwhut said...


Robert Hendrickson said...
Of course, I'm NOT even sure if "insane" is a BAD thing anymore.

Charles Manson...
You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays
everybody's crazy.






St Circumstance said...

So well said Deb :)

HellzBellz said...

is that musical ever recorded live ??

Matt said...

Farf, when I was in the seventh grade the teacher was lecturing us about Rome and why it was important. The obvious connection was that America was/is the benificiary/inheritor of the Roman Empire. He was explaining to us about why Rome fell. He wasn't quite reaching us. Finally he said, "they got fat."

I still didn't get it. But, I get it now. America is doomed. We're fat.


penny lane said...

Slams home the whole " ignorance is bliss" thang...i wish could stop watching and reading all the horror stories...but I cant...lol...i wanna know EVERTHING....

penny lane said...

Walked on the moon ...or did we..ha !!

penny lane said...

America is doomed...not cos your all fat...its because of the likes of the Bundys and co...perhaps someone should have WACO'ed them of the planet..hmm wonder why they didnt?

Robert Hendrickson said...

This day in 1965, Malcomn X was assassinated. So I think there are not as many assassinations NOW, BUT NOW we have the internet AND I-PHONES today and we don't even KNOW the extent of how safe or dangerous that is. I recently realized that my email address rarefilms@yahoo.com has been made into a new kind of website by YAHOO. There are even webpages there from this blog where you can click on to.

I guess MY privacy is NOW all shot to hell. AND that's something that NEVER existed in the sixties.

Of course, in a strange way, that gives MY words a new sense of power - a kind of power that Charles Manson never dreamed of - or did HE ?

Jenn said...

Robert, Sanders is not a Communist.

penny lane said...

Robert ...so was Justice scalia..whacked or not ? :o

HellzBellz said...

is that musical ever recorded live ?? Owh and Debb,... you remember the Pics/Video Snap Shots I send you a while back,... ?? Maybe same as this post..

DebS said...

Hellz I do remember the pics you sent me but I don't think they have anything to do with this post. People record everything these days but back in 1968, not so much. I have no idea if there is a recording of the musical.

ziggyosterberg said...


Robert Hendrickson said...

"I recently realized that my email address rarefilms@yahoo.com has been made into a new kind of website by YAHOO. There are even webpages there from this blog where you can click on to."

The internet is a series of tubes, Robert.


fiona1933 said...

I dont believe that is posed. Thats Ruth Ann Morehouse sitting to the left...