Wednesday, June 8, 2016

The Mystery of the Booking Numbers



 While composing my post on Stephanie Rowe I discovered something that left me confused and curious.  Initially I was trying to find out what arrests Stephanie's two mug shots were from.  I am assuming one of them is from the Mendocino arrest but I was unclear where the other mug shot was from.

I consulted Deemer's List of Family members and associates.   This list was compiled by Lt. Earl Deemer in the days leading up to the arrests for the TLB murders.  Notable on the list is an entry for Charles Montgomery who we know was an alias that was used by Tex Watson.  This pretty much dates when Deemer created the list as it wasn't until late November that the Los Angeles Sheriff's Office finally figured out Tex's true name and put out a warrant for his arrest.

Deemer's List as well as some of the police reports can be viewed at Michael Channel's website.  You will need to refer to the list as well as two of the police reports in order to follow along with this post.  The reports start about 3/4 of the way down the page.

What I started looking at specifically are the LASO#'s on Deemer's List.  Not everyone has an LASO#.   What I noticed is that the numbers seem to correspond to various specific arrests.  There are two sets of three numbers, the first three numbers in the set seem to reference a specific arrest and the last three numbers are a particular person.

If you looks at the Summit Trail arrest report (labeled as LASD Arrest Report May 2, 1968 at Channel's website) all of the people booked have 702 XXX as a booking number.  You can go back to Deemer's List and find that Louis Covell, Sandra Collins, Bruce Van Hall, Diane Lake, Robert Murray and Paul Watkins all have an LASO# that begins with 702. 

While Manson and Bruce Davis were also arrested on Summit Trail and were given 702 XXX booking numbers on the arrest report they have lower LASO#s on Deemer's List which leads me to think that the LASO# assigned to them by Deemer was from an earlier arrest by the LASO.   As a matter of fact I checked Charles Manson's rap sheet and see that the LASO# 386 798 on Deemer's List was from a 1955 arrest with a Dyer Act charge.  That same number is also on the rap sheet for arrests in 1957, 1959 and 1960.  However later arrests on Charlie's rap sheet, in 1968 and 1969 do not reference that number.




What is curious about the Summit Trail arrest is that Paul Watkins was given LASO# 702 040 on Deemer's List but he does not appear on the arrest report.  Also, whoever was LASO# 702 041 does not appear on Deemer's List or the Summit Trail arrest report.  The booking numbers on the arrest report begin with 702 042.  It cannot be a coincidence that Watkins, out of the blue was assigned LASO# 702 040  by Deemer.  And who is the missing person????

When I got to the Spahn Ranch Raid arrest report of August 16, 1969  I saw that all of those arrested were given booking numbers beginning with 892 XXX with the exception of those who might have been arrested previous by LASO the LASO#s pretty well match up between the people listed on the arrest report and on Deemer's list. 

The newspaper article on the arrest differs somewhat from what is written in the arrest report as far as naming the arrested.  Also, the newspaper says there were seven juveniles taken into custody but the arrest report lists five children plus one juvenile, Herbert Townsend Jr., who was charged.



So, the above leads to my original quest, what was Stephanie Rowe's other arrest?  When I looked up Stephanie on Deemer's List I saw that she had LASO# 850 544.



What I noticed was that there were a number of people who had an LASO# beginning with 850 XXX.  Stephanie Rowe, Sherry Cooper, Madaline Cottage, William Feeny, Barbara Hoyt, David Lipsett, Nancy Pitman, Barbara Rosenberg, Catherine Share and Leslie Van Houten.

Stephanie must have been arrested along with nine other people, possibly more considering that Deemer was known to use older booking numbers for some people.  But when was the arrest made and what was it for?  I am absolutely clueless.

Barbara Hoyt was one of those arrested and the date I have for her hooking up with the Family was April 1, 1969.  That gives us a date to begin with, it couldn't have been before then.

I even emailed Grim to ask if he was aware of a group arrest before the Spahn Ranch Raid of August 16, 1969.  He did not know of one. 

One of the 10 names stands out to me, William Feeny.  He's not particularly well known and I wasn't aware that he ever went down to Southern California much less was arrested with a bunch of Family members in LA .  The last name is actually spelled Feeney and he is the person who was the official renter of the 636 Cole St address that Manson was associated with in San Francisco.  Feeney was also the brother of Patricia Friedman who along with her husband Irwin "Partee" Friedman raised Sandra Good's son Ivan.



So, what gives?  How can there be another large arrest of Family members and no one to my knowledge has ever talked about it?  There do not seem to be any police reports with an 850 XXX booking number for those arrested.  If you know something, give it up!!!  I'd hate it if it turned out I've gone completely brain dead and just blanked this arrest from my mind........





35 comments:

Cielodrive.com said...

Very observant Deb.

LASO arrested Paul Watkins on April 30, 1968 and booked him with possession of marijuana on May 1st.

Cielodrive.com said...

According to her record, Leslie Van Houten was arrested on suspicion of GTA in April 1969. This had to have been where the 850 booking number came from because it is the earliest arrest on Van Houten's record.

DebS said...

Thank you Cielo! It's no surprise that Watkins was booked May 1, 1968 because that is the date on the Summit Trail arrest report but what is curious is that Watkins is not named on the arrest report. I don't think that the omission is because Paul was a juvenile at the time. He was born January 1950 so would have been 19 years old in April 1969.

The info about Leslie's first arrest makes sense. The Family would have been living on Gresham Street at the time, so not different Spahn Ranch arrest. According to my notes Dale Butler of Butler's Buggy Shop learned in April 1969 that he had purchased a stolen VW from a friend of Manson. That friend was Madaline Joan Cottage using the AKA of Patricia Joan Baldwin.

The VW that Butler bought had been stolen from his own storage yard. Dale Butler's brother Phil was an officer with LAPD. So, all of this would have triggered warrants to be issued and served on those at Gresham Street.

Cielodrive.com said...

Do you have the Summit Trial report? I thought that was on May 2nd. Paul's mugshot said he was arrested on April 30th. What I'm wondering is if Paul's pot bust led LASO to Summit Trail?

DebS said...

I emailed the report to you. You're correct about the arrest being on May 2, 1968. So Paul's pot bust could have been the catalyst for the arrest of the others.

Cielodrive.com said...

Description of Leslie Van Houten's (the 850 booking) from Leslie's 1985 parole hearing..

"The arrest record -- the first entry is dated April 19, 1969, I guess she was about 20, the entry is for grand theft auto, but that charge was dismissed for insufficient evidence. The prisoner was -- she stated she was in a milk truck, along with some friends and they were stopped by the police.

"And she is quoted as saying, 'Some dude was driving.'

"And this is the vehicle which was -- allegedly stolen but she told the police that someone had given them that milk truck."

DebS said...

Thanks Cielo! That pretty much solves that mystery.

Cielodrive.com said...

Thank you, Deb.

Do you have any idea when and where this mug of Barbara Hoyt was taken?

DebS said...

I'm not positive but going by what we know I can take a guess. Hoyt was also arrested in the Spahn Ranch raid Aug. 16 1969. She used the alias of Barbara Whyer and coincidental to my post she said her birthdate was 3-23-50 which is Stephanie Rowe's birthdate. It's in the Spahn Ranch raid police report.

In the mug shot of her that you linked she is wearing her glasses. She was one of the people that said her glasses were taken from her because Charlie did not feel that people needed to wear them. The Milk Truck arrest happened a little less than three weeks after she hooked up with the Family so probably the mug shot is from that arrest. She hadn't been with the Family long enough to give up her glasses is what I'm thinking.

Cielodrive.com said...

You are probably right. She wasn't wearing glasses in her Aug 16

Robert Hendrickson said...

Here's a relevant QUESTION: At what point in the history of the Manson Family did ANY "officer of the law" THINK: "Hey, maybe we got a GANG here" ?

Cause TODAY the cops SEE 3 homies walking down the street in the barrio or ghetto and they KNOW they got a GANG on the prowl.

St Circumstance said...

I think I could listen to Deb and Cielo talk about this stuff all day and it's almost as interesting as the RH Manson Documentary.

The details and minutiae you are aware of is on another level. It's just researching on a professional level in my opinion. Nothing short of professional. Amateurs like me will just have to stick to having a big mouth I guess lol I'm a good copy and paster though :)

In regards to the post my thoughts always go back to the same place. I can't stop wondering how so many of them kept getting arrested over and over. Parole, probation, parents, nothing seemed to matter. They kept being released and allowed to go back to the group.

Until actually killing someone it seems that the system was nothing more than a revolving door for these people.

There is a certain sad irony to trying to sort out all of the different arrests of a group of people BEFORE some of them went out and killed people.

Hope everyone is peachy keen

orwhut said...

Anybody know the story behind Little Paul's halo?

Cielodrive.com said...

Thanks St. I'm not sure I am worthy of such praise, but I'll take it.

Leslie has three GTAs on her record. All were in 1969 and all were dismissed. When I was looking some of this stuff up yesterday I came across some of Leslie's own comments on those arrests. She related that at the time, police would charge large groups with the same crime in an effort to break up groups of hippies.

St Circumstance said...

You are both worthy and both of the sites rock!!

grimtraveller said...

St Circumstance said...


I can't stop wondering how so many of them kept getting arrested over and over. Parole, probation, parents, nothing seemed to matter. They kept being released and allowed to go back to the group.

Until actually killing someone it seems that the system was nothing more than a revolving door for these people


Very little of any serious note seemed to stick. I mean, prior to TLB, with the exception of Charlie, how many serious incidents actually were there in which there was the kind of evidence that warranted some kind of trial ?
Unfortunately, sometimes all one can do is wait until the serious shit happens because the system just gets clogged up with minor trifles.
I remember about 25 years ago, in Chelsea, there was a serious problem with Moroccan teenagers and kids snatching bags and mugging. They used to call it "lash a tec." Anyway, when the police did catch them, because they were all underage, there was little of any note that could be done. The police considered it a waste of time and resources to try and get these petty crimes up to the point where there might be a prosecution, only to have it kicked back by the CPS {Crown prosecution service}. So unofficially, they would log the crimes and just wait until those guys reached 18 and then Kerblammo ! After that it was gloves off and stuff the Queensberry rules. LE showed little mercy after that !

St Circumstance said...

Fair point that it was mostly non felony type of stuff for the most part. It just seems like a lot of arrests and parole/probation violations went on and when bad people slip through the cracks as a result - as a couple of them were- the system is failing the victims in a sense as well.

No?

DebS said...

Thanks St!!!! Everyone here at the blog has a different style and that's what keeps it interesting.

orwhut....the story behind Little Paul's halo.

http://www.mansonblog.com/2015/09/october-2nd-auction.html

I doubt the link to the auction works anymore but you'll get the gist.

orwhut said...

Deb,
Thanks! You put up that post in Sept. of last year and I was the first to comment on it. It's hard to believe I'd already forgotten about it.

Robert Hendrickson said...

AWH ! Maybe someone is on to something - The GROWTH of a catapiller into a butterfly, (or a wasp that only appears to be a butterfly) ?

OR the GROWTH of an unauthorized music / movie uploader into a full fledged "pirate."

Maybe Charlie planted the SEED, but it was the "establishment" who kept it watered until it grew and grew into a WEED.

BUT that provided the incentive for Monsanto to invent the chemical "Weed Be Gone" which in turn made the world a better place for YOU and ME.

So on the seventh day, everyone deserved a REST.

Robert Hendrickson said...

I understand the NEW 7 hour OJ documentary will begin Saturday night. They say it begins with the Police / BLACK confrontations in the 1960s. Please watch it and let me know if YOU think the US is NOW ready for a 5 hour non-cryptic MANSON documentary.

grimtraveller said...

Robert Hendrickson said...

let me know if YOU think the US is NOW ready for a 5 hour non-cryptic MANSON documentary

I can't comment on the US but I'll watch it if it comes, cryptic or not !


orwhut said...

You put up that post in Sept. of last year and I was the first to comment on it. It's hard to believe I'd already forgotten about it

During 2013, I kept on hearing this lovely snatch of a piece of classical music on this radio advert {I think it was for insurance by a bank}. It was so beautiful and I thought to myself "I must get this !" but I didn't have a clue what it was or who it was by. After a while trying to locate clues about it online and coming up with zilch, I went into this very highbrow record shop, one of the few that still deals in vinyl in central London. It's a very exclusive classical music store. Anyway, I asked the man behind the counter if he had a fairly extensive working knowledge of the classics and he said yes so I proceeded to hum the piece to him and he identified it. It was by Holst, from "The Planets" and he asked me if I wanted to buy it. I said no and went back to my van.
I felt such a fool because I already had it and had done since 1996 !

St Circumstance said...

It just seems like a lot of arrests and parole/probation violations went on and when bad people slip through the cracks as a result - as a couple of them were- the system is failing the victims in a sense as well

In "Helter Skelter" Bugliosi makes an interesting point when he comes to his review of Charlie's rap sheet and says he could find no sustained history of violence. Then he enumerates things Charlie was popped for and asks if this adds up to mass murder.
Point being, if you looked at Charlie with his rap sheet and the things he was arrested for post '67, you'd be hard pushed to conclude that he'd end up involved, even if it's at the level he says it was, in murder. You wouldn't have looked at Leslie, Pat or Susan and necessarily thought "now there's a bunch of murdering wenches." Robert says that Bruce used to give him the chills but when he was sailing round Europe and scientologing in London, despite his drug use, would one have looked at him and predicted he'd spend most of his life in jail for murder ? Would Bobby, Clem or Tex have been fingered as future killers ? Danny Decarlo told LAPD that he felt they would all kill if Charlie told them to but by that time, he had knowledge that they all had. Linda Kasabian in some ways represents the perfect example of someone who had a loose attitude towards the law but wasn't a killer, yet ended up in the midst of murder. Had Susan Atkins not recanted, she, with her minor infractions of the law, would have been done for at least 2nd degree murder.
Four kids I worked with and knew well {3 of them particularly} ended up committing murder. Although one of them developed serious mental problems, I wouldn't have pegged any of them as killers {although with one of them, I wasn't surprised. I found a piece I wrote back in July 1991 that I'd completely forgotten about where I referred to him as 'Randall the knifeman' so I must have been conscious of his leanings}. Systems aren't perfect because we aren't. There will always be people slipping through the cracks because they may only be at the minor degree of their eventual escalation when they initially get caught. I think that's what happened with the Family.

Panamint Patty said...

Grim said snatch (snicker)

orwhut said...

Patty's cute when her mind is in the gutter.

Fiddy 8 said...

The NBC television program *Dateline* will have a two night special this Thursday and Friday.

Fiddy 8 said...

...on Manson Family.

Fiddy 8 said...

Thursday at 8pm on...6-16-16.

Robert Hendrickson said...

TO Everyone and especially GRIMM:

What do you think of the PRAISE Muhammad Ali is NOW getting for HIS refusal to be drafted into the US Army and fight in Vietnam. At the time HE was really put down for his REFUSAL and even stripped of his Boxing Privileges. NOW, he is even being credited with helping to end that ugly WAR.

So when Charles Manson dies, is HE also going to get some credit for "helping" to END that WHITE / YELLOW race WAR? OR is that humanitarian mission reserved for ONLY Black Muslims ?

In re-thinking my 5 hour mini-series, I'm beginning to realize that there are so many angles to the Manson Family Story that not even 5 hours will do it justice.

Just the Roman Polanski issue and the "rapping" crew that roamed in Hollywood at the time, could be a whole movie in and of itself. When Merrick found out from the cops about the biggest Country & Western music star's lust for little boys, I remember thinking: "My God, money will buy you the freedom to do ANYTHING.

Of course, Bill Cosby is living PROOF of that, but ONLY Hollywood shared in that secret at the time. So what OTHER Hollywood secrets dwellth in the house of Manson ?

grimtraveller said...

Robert Hendrickson said...

What do you think of the PRAISE Muhammad Ali is NOW getting for HIS refusal to be drafted into the US Army and fight in Vietnam. At the time HE was really put down for his REFUSAL and even stripped of his Boxing Privileges

Ours was a Muhammad Ali household. My Dad absolutely loved him and if an Ali fight was on during the week and it was a school day, it was the only time as kids we were allowed to stay up even though none of us liked boxing. But we couldn't mess around, it was silence and reverence and my Dad would laugh and quote his poetry. He always found it funny when Ali would have another wife and he'd say "Ali's money is now paying alimony !"
I suppose it was kind of humorous.
Though he got a raw deal, my Dad was always a supporter so I guess I never really was conscious of the contemporary slagging off that Ali received or I didn't understand it.
I'm conscious of the fuss retrospectively though and in fairness, long before his death, the media, at least over here, tended to hold him up as a paragon of principled virtue for stating why he wasn't going to fight. I get the feeling that the Ali/Vietnam/licence stripping was one of the signifiers of small changes being made in America at the time because the civil rights issue was right up in peoples' faces and although Robert has often said that civil rights legislation only went through so that Black and Brown men could be carted off to war, I look at what came out the other side. Even if that were true, I doubt there are many Black people that would return to the way things were in the USA prior to the 70s just on a point of principle. Sometimes, one needs to get that foot in the door even if the thing being given to you is not really meant to benefit you. If you're smart, you'll get it to benefit you !
I do think that when certain people die, it's just not cricket to come out and bad mouth them and in the case of Ali, 50 years of hindsight is a goodly period in which to assess actions that one may have been savage about initially.


NOW, he is even being credited with helping to end that ugly WAR

I find that ridiculous. I agree with his reasons for not going but that didn't bring the war to a close. It didn't even stop many other Black people from participating.
Ironically, according to David R. Williams in his book "Searching for God in the 60s" the defence secretary Robert McNamara concluded by the end of 1965 that the war in Vietnam could not be won.
That all said though, it was around March '66 that Ali refused to fight in the Vietnam war and the anti war protesting and polarization really took off after that. Even the Beatles commented about it in August of that year. So although it's beyond stretching it to claim he helped stop the war, speaking on college campuses about it certainly helped spread the antiwar fervour and I'd say much of the counterculture held him in fairly high esteem for actually risking liberty on a point of principle instead of running off to Canada to escape the draft.
Another irony is that he was initially rejected by the draft board because his literacy wasn't up to par.

So when Charles Manson dies, is HE also going to get some credit for "helping" to END that WHITE / YELLOW race WAR?

No matter how one stretches it, I still can't work out the logic of that one. Or even the illogic !


grimtraveller said...

In re-thinking my 5 hour mini-series, I'm beginning to realize that there are so many angles to the Manson Family Story that not even 5 hours will do it justice

I think you're right on that. However, that would probably only really apply to those of us that have a particular interest in the case and it's "attendant packages." 5 hours would probably do the general telly punter fine and it would be an eye opener to not have it being one of those poorly researched sensationalist efforts.


When Merrick found out from the cops about the biggest Country & Western music star's lust for little boys

Don't give the identity, but were they male or female and when you say "little boys" how little are we talking ?


Robert Hendrickson said...

I remember thinking: "My God, money will buy you the freedom to do ANYTHING

There again, it didn't seem to do Mike Tyson or OJ much good.
I think there have been some miscarriages of justice that could well be put down to the fact that a perp or one of their kin had money. Fortunately, it doesn't always work out that way. Over here, it didn't help Tam Paton, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan King or Gary Glitter.

Robert Hendrickson said...

GRIM: Your other side of the pond perspective is ALWAYS appreciated.

Ali was bigger than life HERE, but the media really hit him hard over his Vietnam stance.
Of course, for HIM of all people, to say: "NO I won't go" set the "mean" machine in overdrive.
In 65 LBJ had just escalated Vietnam into a real WAR and in 66 everyone was still gung-ho.

Trust ME on this one, most young men of draft age could NOT believe any BLACK man had the balls to say NO, not me. ALL the White draft age guys like Bill Clinton, Steven Spielberg, Donald Trump, Sylvester Stallone and many movie star's sons left the country or PAID off their Congressman to avoid the rice-paddies of Vietnam. BUT the media made it like ALI had simply come up with a new excuse.

Here's the FUNNY part: All ALI had to do was grow a beard and say it was part of HIS new Muslim religion and the military would have to excuse HIM.

PS: In Texas, at the time, where LBJ crawled out of a hole, it was illegal for a Black man to marry a White woman, BUT if HE was a US soldier, he could go to Vietnam and marry any White woman.

So much for the US making the people in Vietnam FREE of OPRESSION. Kind'a makes sense in a somewhat perverted way.

grimtraveller said...

Robert Hendrickson said...

Trust ME on this one, most young men of draft age could NOT believe any BLACK man had the balls to say NO

I do trust you on that.
I also think that it was evidence that the times, they were a changing. 20+ years earlier, Black soldiers went to fight in WW2 against the Nazis but a guy called Willie Dixon refused to go and fight. He was a bass player and songwriter {and ironically, a boxer that won the Golden gloves and turned pro} and he was sent to prison for not refusing army induction. He said at the time that he couldn't fight for a country that institutionalized racism and enshrined it in law. But of course, in the 40s, you didn't really have Black people freely speaking in the media and he wasn't exactly a national figure. However, he beat Ali to it by a quarter of a century but few remember him for it. Many people haven't even heard of him.
He was very important to English lads though, because he wrote great blues songs that ended up being covered by Cream, the Stones, Led Zeppelin, the Pretty Things and the Jeff Beck group. Indeed, the Pretty Things took their name from one of his songs. Bands like them and the Stones taking their names from the songs of Black people and the amount of blues covers that appeared between 1963 and 1970 went a long way towards paving the way for some of those time changes.
Back to Ali for a moment, I found it amusing that the army rejected him 2 years before his refusal to fight......but like much of history, that gets left out.

orwhut said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
orwhut said...

Robert C.

Did you get my life expetancy from the url you provided?
The way I understand that list, it means in 1900 the average U.S. male lived to be 46.3, in 1951 he lived to be 65.6, and in 1998 Mr. average U.S. male lived to be 73.8. I hope I'm right.

grimtraveller said...

he was sent to prison for not refusing army induction

Even America in the 40s wasn't that unfair ! That should read "he was sent to prison for refusing army induction."