Tuesday, February 7, 2017

So-Called Journalist Elias Spreads Fake News

So one of the most faithful followers of the TLB case, CieloDrive, tweeted today a link to a new opinion piece in THE UNION.   In it he whines like a mope about all the parole hearings the killers keep coming up for, oblivious to the fact that they are simply availing themselves of the law.   If he doesn't like the law he should fight to change it.  That would be work though, and not get him attention.  As disinherited daughter Debra Tate can tell you, the cameras only pay attention to you when you whine not when you try to get laws changed.  Not glamorous enough.  (like her nude teen photo sold last week on ebay)


Here is a link to the screed by admittedly pre-senile dementia afflicted writer Thomas Elias.

As true scholars thirsting for TLB knowledge you will see lots of obvious errors that 3 minutes with google would show you.  Or a 12 year old editor.

So The Col wrote to Thomas.

Not sure Shea bought Clem clothes.

It was "Healter Skelter" on the refrigerator not a wall. The misspelling is actually extremely important since it helped convict her. 

And for godsakes man spell her name right-Krenwinkel. 



For all that outrage a Google search would've taken you five minutes.

I mean I was just being helpful.  Sure I was curt but I was doing his fucking job was I not?  His reply was a stunner!

Sorry, but I saw it on a wall. And was there. Apologies if there was a misspelling. Can you tell me where you saw the column?
tom elias


It took me several emails to conclude he seems to think he was in the LaBianca house.  Maybe he was.  But he is so determined to stick with his bullshit I doubt his name is Elias.  So I wrote.

I assume you are joking.  Transcripts confirm fridge.  And a photo from Bug's novel shows fridge. 

And it's not if there was a misspelling there was a misspelling. As an assumed journalist one would think you would appreciate the errors pointed out.

Noted Blogger/site Cielodrive.com tweeted the article. 


You would think he would stop there.  He's been struck down twice with pesky facts.  But no.

I already apologized for any misspelling, which might be just a simple transposition of letters. But I will go with my memory on the scrawls on the wall.  Wonder where that website got my column, as I have not yet seen it in any of my client newspapers...

A simple transposition of letters?   You mean ranting about someone and not spelling her fucking name right?  And you will note he apologized by saying IF he misspelled.  Like he might not have. "I will go with my memory" was just incredible to me...you cannot help stupid I guess. 

I wrote back-

Great reporting.  You stick to your memory.  Very Trumpian. 

It said "Death to Pigs" on the wall.

It said "Healter Skelter" on fridge.

If you are going to get paid to write something about this vile killer who will never be released being riddled with errors is bad enough. Doubling down is shameful. 


Yet, when someone confronts this amazing asshat with actual facts he STILL responds with the "neener neener I was there so what are you?" response.

 I was there, and I wrote about it at the time. Were you?

As a logical scholar, seeking the truth (not trying to establish Manson Brand Martial Arts Schools ala Tom O'Neill) you can seem my jaw hit the ground.  Surely this asshat will hit Google and see that he is mistaken. Or maybe he is ill.  I reply-

So then shall we attribute your errors to early onset dementia?

He replies

You can attribute the typos to being that. The other is no error. 

So I send him a picture of the fucking fridge.  And silence. Because that is how asshats roll.



Of course a second read of his bizarre rant revealed even more errors...Death to Pigs in Gibby's blood?   Ummm no.....

I looked at this guy's profile pic (posted above) and saw the liver erosion in his face and the sad reliance on lies and I realized who I was reminded of-

  People like this make things harder for scholars/  Like the Bug they spread lies and then double down on them.  Caveat Emptor.

85 comments:

Matt said...

The Union, or The Onion?


DebS said...

I read the same column last night, I got it in a Google alert. I actually started writing an email to him pointing out the errors in his column which are not limited to your observations. There are many errors!

I pretty much wore myself out with my rant to him and ended up hitting the delete button. Why? I've dealt with this guy before, regarding a Manson related column, and like you received the same idiotic replies. (iirc, it was a column on Bobby) Some people just aren't worth getting all lathered up over, this guy is one of them.

What's unfortunate for me is that my local weekly newspaper runs this guy's column. It's the only local paper so lots of people around here read it. He is equally as ignorant on other topics.

DebS said...

Yeah, the column that upset me was about Bobby. Elias said that Gary Hinman was chopped up along with Shorty Shea and parts of his body were found at Spahn Ranch.......

http://www.dailynews.com/opinion/20150302/some-killers-dont-deserve-parole-hearings-thomas-elias

ColScott said...

we need to find who syndicates him and send them this posting- does not deserve the job


Deb?

Manson Mythos said...

Bannon is a genius. I think Elias looks more like a charecture you'd see on an old Nazi propaganda poster.

DebS said...

He owns his own syndicate, California Focus that serves 93 California newspapers according to his website.

http://www.californiafocus.net/

His LinkedIn page says he is the owner of California Focus.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-elias-20b4527

St Circumstance said...

First glance I though it it was Kelsey Grammar

But I'm high. Sounds like the usual no nothing blowhard.

St Circumstance said...

Not that Kelsey Grammar is lol. Sorry Mrs Matt.

r shep said...

(pre-senile dementia). There are other words or phrases that could be used. Obviously you don't have a loved one with this horrible disease.

cielodrivecom said...

You gotta love when someone wants to argue established facts. You can't reason with stupid

MrsMatt said...

Lol, Saint.
Too late. I already sent Kelsey a screen shot of your comment.

St Circumstance said...

Sigh.... lol :) I hope you are very well!

ziggyosterberg said...


His 2015 story on Bruce Davis contained some more fun non-facts :

"Shea's carved-up body was later found in small pieces spread around the former Spahn Movie Ranch”

"Hinman's dead body was later found in Davis's home”


He was there, maaaaaaan.

ziggyosterberg said...


St Circumstance said...

"First glance I though it it was Kelsey Grammar”


This is who Elias reminded me of


Another good scene from that movie :

Buddy Repperton : The World's Oldest Looking High School Student

Fiddy 8 said...

You can't prove Elias wasn't there.

Fiddy 8 said...

Maybe Buddy got held back a few grades because of his fascination with knives.

brownrice said...

..."saw the liver erosion in his face and the sad reliance on lies"... yep... pretty much sums it up. Like ya say, ya can't argue with stupid.

St Circumstance said...

I only ever saw that actor in Christine and Back to School with Rodney Dangerfield. He was a two hit wonder lol

Matt said...

cielodrivecom said...

You gotta love when someone wants to argue established facts. You can't reason with stupid


Cielo we are not political here. Don't pick on POTUS.


ziggyosterberg said...


Fiddy 8 said...

"Maybe Buddy got held back a few grades because of his fascination with knives.”

I personally think that Buddy was a Narc.


St Circumstance said...

"I only ever saw that actor in Christine and Back to School with Rodney Dangerfield. He was a two hit wonder lol”

The only other movie I ever saw the blonde haired guy from the Karate Kid in (other than Karate Kid 2) was Back to School.

Robert Downey Jr was also in Back to School. Robert Downey Sr was born Robert Elias. Which brings us back to the original topic of this thread : Kevin Bacon.

St Circumstance said...

Lol

ziggyosterberg said...


St C :

Jenny Wright's GoFundMe

Latest Update (2 months ago) :

"As I reflect on my experience up on the mountain I realize I must do much research on the dark art of necromancy and shape shifting. There is much that occurred that I don't understand yet. I do know that I layed myself bare to any sort of encroaching evil that might be near. It was a poor mexican mountain community and I believe the attacks were not solely human. As perhaps David was a victim as well."


"It's Casual." ;)

St Circumstance said...

Lol

St Circumstance said...

I don't get the whole survivalist - live off the grid thing. I was at Barker a couple of hours and was ready to go. It's cool for a minute but to live there??

I need AC. I need clean running hot water. I need cable TV. Pizza delivery. Cold coots- light and refrigeration.

Not to be happy. To survive.

Not sure how the family did it? Charlie helped kill Shorty and he Shot Crowe and left him for dead. He could have killed Gary the was he slashed at his head.

He got lucky he is not a murderer personally. And who really knows what else he did on his forays away from the Family?

ziggyosterberg said...


I lived in Arizona/Nevada for a bit, and it was depressing. I'm not sure if that was because of the desert, or because I was losing so much money gambling. I was living in hotels, though. If I had to live off the grid, I probably would have lost my mind. In the daytime in the summer, it feels like you're in an oven. You can feel your brain cooking. Maybe that's what happened?

I think maybe around the time when Charlie shot Lotsapoppa, he had decided that he wanted to go back to the comfort of prison, because the outside world had failed him. It was like a cry for help. :-O

St Circumstance said...

Lol. The outside world failed him..

I should get failed so badly.

Traveling Around with a group of girls who cook clean and steal for me at my beckoning. Rolling my joints for me.

Hanging around the biggest rock stars of the time and loving with a beach boy

A gang of men who roll over and sit at my orders.

Never work a full time job for one day of my adult life.

The world really failed Charles Manson alright. It's no wonder he was a no good crook who beat, raped and plotted to kill people...

:)

St Circumstance said...

They went to desert for one reason and one reason only. To hide out with the other rats.

They knew what they did was wrong and they went to hide. It would be harder to find them there.

Theron lies Charlie's love for desert. If he wanted to be left alone he would have left others alone. He did not. Then he ran and hid.

Showing his true nature...

St Circumstance said...

Sorry for typos. Traveling and my thumbs are too big for this phone lol

ziggyosterberg said...


Home is where the heart is.

You don't shoot people when you're happy. (unless you're crazy)

I don't think that Charlie would have shot Lotsapoppa in the good old Dennis Wilson party days, if he was faced with the same situation - drug burn, bailing out Tex.

He was in a different frame of mind when all the bad shit went down.

Who or what caused it? It may have just been the culmination of everything from the day he stepped out of prison in 1967. And he surrounded himself with a lot of people who would have ended up in prison or mental hospitals regardless of having ever met him. One of the illusions of this case is that Charlie made all of those people bad, but they were fucked up to begin with. (yes, that includes Van Houten)

St Circumstance said...

All the bad shot happened at Charlie's nudging no?

St Circumstance said...

You are right though that he accumulated just the right mix of cuckoos around him. But even so it was only select few that would go too far.

But whatever bad direction they went in. I feel Charlie was steering..

ziggyosterberg said...


St Circumstance said...

"They went to desert for one reason and one reason only. To hide out with the other rats.”

Didn't Matt go to university in Arizona?


How dare you!

Matt said...

I did indeed. There was an underground newspaper on campus that I always read called "Rat Sass".


ziggyosterberg said...


Jud Suss reference?



Oh wait. I got it now. lol

ziggyosterberg said...


St C is clearly a "suppressive person" :

Scientology's "Gold Base" Headquarters

Scientology's "Trementina Base "


St Circumstance said...

Lol. I have partied in Mesa and it's a blast. But a college town in AZ is a long way from living off the grid in Death Valley...

I am as suppressive a bastard as the law allows ;)

I have been to both Gold and Flag bases lol. Although they never let me inside.

Robert C said...

Off the grid --- done it before --- you get used to it quick --- compensate for everything except Coors Lite.

Think Charlie headed to desert to keep his underground theory alive, land/cabin opportunity, get away from searching cops, and most importantly to control the flock. Things were more intense after the murders. Reports Chuck was getting more paranoid, more aggressive. Some in harem, even Tex eventually fled ?

St Circumstance said...

Yeah. All true lol. Especially the Coors light part.

I went to Bonnaroo first year in a tent. Second three in a RV and the last in a Marriott taking a cab back and forth each day.

I was not cut out to live off the land.

I wonder if Charlie had done nothing himself personally why he felt need to run at all? The cops certainly weren't doing anything to keep him off streets...

Fiddy 8 said...

"I was up to my knees in rice paddies, with guns that didn't work! Going in there, looking for Charlie, slugging it out with him, while pussies like you were back here partying, putting headbands on, doing drugs, and listening to the goddamn Beatle albums! - Ohhh! Ohhh! Ohhhh!"

St Circumstance said...

If that is directed at me all I can tell you is that...

I never wore a headband in my life. Not for sports music or any other reason.

Specifically because I am not a ......

Lol but I guess to a person who lives off the grid - in the words of Johhny Cash:

Maybe I am

St Circumstance said...

And if I may tie "Fake News" in with " Hidden News" in politics and tie it into Scientology...

I ask you to consider the case of Great Van Sustawhatever...

She first came across my radar on CNN with Roger Cossomething back when there was no cable news. They did play by play on OJ trial ( please don't blame me if he returns)

Then she was a Fox news host and now she is on MSNBC - which I watch lately as much as ESPN.

All of the people at MSNBC have been kissing her butt royally....

Why is nobody talking about who she really is???

A hard core Scientologist who handles law suits for them. Her husband was the personal Advisor to Sarah Palin during that campaign.

Imagine that. Someone who had a 50/50 chance to be the number two person in our Government was being advised and instructed by an advisor was a dedicated Scientologist....

That should scare you much more than a bunch of locked up senior citizens....

St Circumstance said...

http://gawker.com/5185380/sarah-palin-advisers-secret-scientology-plot-to-take-over-washington

Bobby said...

LOL,
That picture reminded of someone too.

ziggyosterberg said...


This is directed at St C :

How come we didn't cross the 38th parallel and push those rice-eaters back to the Great Wall of China? Then take the fucking wall apart brick by brick and nuke them back into the fucking stone age forever? Tell me why! How come? Say it! Say it!

ziggyosterberg said...


Saint, the Clittons gave the Co$ its tax exempt status. Remember the Clittons?

Have you been inside the Celebrity Centre in Hollywood? The Co$ owns a lot of buildings in Hollywood. Those fake navy uniforms that their adherents wear are quite spiffy. Do Greta and her hubby dress up like Naval officers when they go to a Cruise/Travolta Co$ film festival? The funny ones to me are the ex-scientologists who bash it. Like, what took you so long to figure out that it was a scam, sweetie?

St Circumstance said...

I like the way you think. I'll be watching you

Lol

St Circumstance said...

I have been outside the celebrity center but never in. I'm afraid to go in any Of the buildings. They won't leave you alone lol

Leah R is a hypocrite. She is just trying to stay relevant. Her acting career was over. It needed to be exposed. But it does not sit well with me that she is reviving her career doing it.

Travolta is terrified the world finds out he is gay for some reason so he is stuck.

No excuse for Cruise. He should be ashamed. Alas he is not.

Bobby said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ColScott said...

Dear Ziggy

The Clintons did NOT give the Church tax exempt status. Cease your bullshit lies immediately.

Saint- I will long remember your needless derailing of my thread

St Circumstance said...

Apologies but I said the guy seemed useless lol. How long should I beat a dead horse :)

Please excuse me and let's return to insulting this guy. Better him than me lol

St Circumstance said...

You know speaking of this guy...

It appears he writes stuff that reaches a total
Circulation of 1.89 million and has been nominated for a Pulitzer 3 times...

But he doesn't seem to know the difference between ignorance and stupid.

Everyone is ignorant about some things and there is nothing wrong with that. We are all ignorant about something. But when you talk too much about a subject you are ignorant of them you can end up looking stupid

And not everybody does that...

Sometimes the way to look smartest is to defer to those who are not ignorant about a subject.

It's really hard for some people to do that. Some people feel some responsibility to know it all. And to me that is just stupid

Matt said...

I think Confucius said that!


St Circumstance said...

Probably more eloquently than I did lol

ziggyosterberg said...


Saint, this thread was going places before you needlessly derailed it. We could've had this old guy's phone # by now if we didn't get sidetracked.

Back to Operation : Harass an old dude who looks like Kelsey Grammer.



Remember that time when the Clittons deregulated the banks? I miss the 90's. :(

St Circumstance said...

Your going to get me crushed lol.

But you do have to wonder how a guy who has such a resume as his - go google it he wins awards and has a following - can be so blatantly unwilling to absorb facts.

St Circumstance said...

He is a joke who is no joke lol


Columnist and author Thomas Elias writes a syndicated politcal column appearing twice weekly in 70 newspapers around California, with a circulation of over 1.89 million. He has won numerous awards from organizations like the National Headliners Club, the California Newspaper Publishers Association, the Greater Los Angeles Press Club, and the California Taxpayers Association. He has been nominated three times for the Pulitzer Prize in distinguished commentary. Elias is the author of two books, "The Burzynski Breakthrough: The Most Promising Cancer Treatment and the Government's Campaign to Squelch It" (now in its third edition; also published in Japanese and recently optioned for a television movie) and "The Simpson Trial in Black and White," co-authored with the late Dennis Schatzman. He is currently at work on a third book about his experiences with kidney failure and later as a kidney transplant recipient. Elias was the West Coast correspondent for Scripps Howard Newspapers for 15 years before he began writing books. Among many other assignments in that position, he covered eight national political conventions; every planetary fly-by; the rise of the AIDS plague; several World Series, Olympics and Super Bowls; two papal visits; several national political campaigns; as well as conducting numerous investigative projects. His work has resulted in the unseating of two judges; helped create a major state park and cause significant changes in the federal treatment of immigrants

ziggyosterberg said...


His Bio needs a little work :

"Columnist and author Thomas Elias writes a syndicated politcal [sic] column..”

St Circumstance said...

Like another recent friend. He seems to have ties to both Charlie and OJ

St Circumstance said...

not to mention Sports, Papal visits and planetary fly-by's...

Multiple planetary fly-by's ???

lolololol that is it. I am too high.

Night

Dreath said...

Mr Elias does have some problems with the facts of this case:

http://www.chicoer.com/opinion/20160607/thomas-elias-another-manson-parole-that-brown-must-halt

LVH carved War among others. And he does claim he was there.

Dreath said...

And a TLB juror saw a death photo of Shorty Shea:

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/opinion/columnists/tom-elias/2016/11/28/thomas-elias-no-parole-for-mass-killers-even-under-prop-57/94589042/

No wonder they made Aquarius. He must have been the technical advisor.

Matt said...

He's an opinion columnist. Opinions aren't facts. Oh, wait...

Dreath said...

He's a 1968 graduate of Stanford and I found no record of him in that timeframe. The Cols post comes up though when you google him. That's fun.

St Circumstance said...

I'm still stuck on " multiple planetary flyby's"

DebS said...

I was able to find a senior picture of him in Stanford's 1966 yearbook. He was a history major. His LinkedIn page, where he provides the info, says he went to Stanford 1962-1968. I can place him in Santa Monica in 1970 but the year 1969 is illusive. The bio that Saint found says he worked for Scripps-Howard as a West Coast correspondent for 15 years prior to writing an OJ book. That book was published in 1996, the trial ended Oct. 1995. That would put him in the journalism biz in about 1980. If he worked for another publication prior, there's no hint of it.

St Circumstance said...

I didn't get that bio anywhere special I just googled the guy lol

They could have gotten there info from anyone icuding him himself ?

What the hell or how the hell does one perform a " planetary flyby"

??? Was he in a rocket ship or something ?multiple times lol

Trilby said...

Elias looks like a rocket scientist compared to the morons over at the 'TardBlog. Made my semi-annual visit to that link this morning - Jeebus, *words fail me*. But they're a commentary on exactly why sloppy, inept "writers" like Elias prosper in today's world. When someone serves as a "voice to the masses", they have an ethical responsibility to get the facts correct. In approx. 80% of stories, documentaries, etc. I find re: TLB, Manson, etc.; there are glaring factual errors that the slightest attempt at fact-checking would have caught. Careless journalism abounds and a dumbed-down public can't discern the difference. And it empowers idiots like Elias with the nerve to get testy when called out for the sloppy writing. Hubris and stupidity walking hand-in-hand.

The collective intelligence & critical thinking over here, & informative (rational) posts by the likes of Dreath, Mr. Stimson, Deb, Col. Scott, Matt et al. are a bright ray of sunshine. Enough to give me hope that TLB truths will still come to light.

P.S. Miss your posts, "Patty"!

(And to clarify: Although I disagree 100% w/ the 'TardBlog's politics; that's not my issue. It's the stupidity. The utter stupidity.)

ziggyosterberg said...


There's mention of him in "Reclaiming Parkland" writing about Bugliosi's run for DA in 1976. Apparently it was published in the Lodi News-Sentinel.

I have no idea why he's claiming that he "set foot in the crime scene the next day" (link that Dreath posted). Hard to believe that he was foolish enough to put that in print.

"Death to Pigs" was leaked to the press, but they reported that it was on the refrigerator. The press didn't know about "Healter Skelter" or "Rise".

One other thing : Note that he says in his bio that he was "nominated three times for the Pulitzer Prize in distinguished commentary".

Apparently that's a bit of a con, because anyone can nominate themselves for a Pulitzer Prize if they have $50 and an entry form (ATTN : St Circumstance). And only the finalists are supposed to say that they were nominated.

If you go to the Pulitzer website and look at the finalists and winners in distinguished commentary, you'll see that his name isn't there. So, yada yada.

DebS said...

The first successful planetary flyby was Dec. 14, 1962. Elias was born in 1944. He's been at for a long time, LMAO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_flyby

I fail to grasp the significance of why someone would have this in their resume.

ziggyosterberg said...


Link didn't work. (Thanks Obama)

Pulitzer Prize - finalists and winners in distinguished commentary



(Reminder to Saint - $50 and an entry form)

DebS said...

ziggyosterberg said...

There's mention of him in "Reclaiming Parkland" writing about Bugliosi's run for DA in 1976. Apparently it was published in the Lodi News-Sentinel.
----------------

This is in the 2016 edition of the book but not in the 2013 edition.

https://books.google.com/books?id=DNaLDAAAQBAJ&q=Elias#v=snippet&q=Elias&f=false

The Col treated everyone back in 2013 to the chapter which was left out of the 2013 edition due to the lawyers cutting it.

http://tatelabianca.blogspot.com/search?q=Reclaiming+Parkland

Sure enough on page 28 of the DropBox link Elias is mentioned.

ziggyosterberg said...


What do you make of this, Deb? (Link)

I did a search on newspapers.com of Thomas D Elias from 1968-1971 and it appears that he was working for AP Detroit. He was mostly writing about Detroit and Michigan related issues. I'm not seeing him writing anything about Manson or Tate-LaBianca. He doesn't appear to have been working in California in 1969. And I think Linda Deutsch did most of the coverage of the murders and trial for AP.

I think his pants might be on fire.

St Circumstance said...

I cant nominate myself Ziggy.

For I too am but an opinion writer who exaggerates and manipulates information to serve my own purposes. I leave the serious work and research to others, and therefore to others the awards should go...

However, I would love to do a planetary flyby

Except I cant ... sigh.... I am deathly afraid of heights

:)

( Pulitzer Prize nominated ST. Circumstance- not a bad ring too it though I must admit)

DebS said...

That is a really good find Ziggy but not exactly conclusive. Narrow the search to just 1969 then in the "sort" dropdown select oldest first. He was writing regularly in January 1969 and then two articles in April 1969 with the Detroit (AP). There are just three articles written in September 1969 and those don't have Detroit (AP).

The Ironwood Globe article looks like it could have been written sooner than when it was published. The Battle Creek and Escanaba newspaper articles are portions of the Ironwood article.

It's possible that he was transferred to elsewhere after April 1969.

You're correct about Linda Deutsch being the AP writer for the trial. She was new on the court beat back then and was sent to back up a "veteran AP reporter". By trial's end she was the AP's trial expert.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/18/veteran-ap-trial-reporter-linda-deutsch-to-retire/

DebS said...

That said, I looked at the newspapers from the time of the murders, Elias said he was at the crime scenes, and he does not have a byline for any of the AP articles written at that time. I have found Donald Harrison, Vernon Scott, John Philip Sousa (!) as writers plus a lot of articles that were AP with no writer stated.

I don't believe that Linda Deutsch covered the murders as they were unfolding.

We are having a rare day of sunshine, I'm going back outside now!

Dreath said...

Elias writes those articles in Michigan Deb and Ziggy mention above and then he reappears in California writing with a guy named Arnold Friedman in 1972. Friedman has some articles dating back to 1964 when he won a student award in journalism i college and '65 when he writes a piece on basic training at Fort Polk.

Nothing on TLB.

In October '72 Elias and Friedman now teamed wrote a piece about suspected fraud in obtaining signatures for a farm labor proposition. It seems the DA Joseph P. Busch apparently handled the probe badly and his opponent in the upcoming DA election was very concerned. The opponent: Bugliosi.

Mr. Humphrat said...

Elias wrote in his column on March 2, 2015 on Bobby B's upcoming parole hearing and said:

"Beausoleil was a Manson henchman who fled Los Angeles after the 1969 murders of musician Gary Hinman and movie stuntman Donald “Shorty” Shea."

and

"The Hinman and Shea murders marked the beginning of the Manson Family’s campaign of killings."

and

"Eventually, Hinman was chopped up along with Shea, who Manson allegedly feared would turn him in to Los Angeles police. Parts of their bodies were found on the Spahn Ranch, the scene of many early Western movies."

Elias did say a mescaline drug burn was the reason for the attempted extortion of Hinman.

Matt said...

Speaking of BS journalism, it appears that the Windy Buckley fantasy bus continues its tour.

ziggyosterberg said...


Deb,

From what I can tell, the story about Michigan campuses written by Thomas D. Elias, was originally published on Sept 10, 1969 in the Ironwood Daily Globe, Lansing State Journal, and Battle Creek Enquirer. It was later published in The Escanaba Daily Press on Sept 16, 1969, and the Hillsdale Daily News on Sept, 24, 1969.


If you look online, the Hillsdale Daily News story says July 24, 1969. But that appears to be an OCR text error. When you click on the picture to view the article, you can see that the date says Sept 24, 1969 (Screenshots) :

Hillsdale Daily News Sept 24, 1969 (Link)

Hillsdale Daily News Sept 24, 1969 (zoom) (Link)

This is the Ironwood one from Sept 10, 1969 :

Ironwood Daily Globe Sept 10, 1969 (Link) (Date is only on the front page of the newspaper, from what I can tell)


You can see the full size picture of the newspaper story at newspaperarchive.com - not to be confused with newspapers.com - but it's a bit of a pain in the ass, because you have to delete the newspaperarchive.com cookie if you look at more than one picture.

ziggyosterberg said...


Matt said...
Speaking of BS journalism, it appears that the Windy Buckley fantasy bus continues its tour.

"But under Manson’s manipulation, clean-cut Grogan was reborn as a shaggy, drug-addled assassin.

“I'm not Steven anymore. I’m Clem Roo,” he told Bucklee."



Clem Roo = More proof that the Manson Family were big Winnie the Pooh fans.

DebS said...

I'll be writing a Windy debunking post in the future. I have it on good authority that the Daily Beast writer intends to write up more of Windy's stories so I will wait to see what transpires.

WTF is wrong with people? They write crap about a crime that on its own is pretty damn remarkable without all the embellishments and exaggerations.

Fiddy 8 said...

Ziger said:
Clem Roo = More proof that the Manson Family were big Winnie the Pooh fans.
----------------------
----------------------

I think some of Manson thought and philosophy has been influenced by Winnie The Pooh. Here are some quotes from the literature of A.A. Milne:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

“I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost.”

----------------------------------

“Some people talk to animals. Not many listen though. That's the problem.”

-----------------------------------

“Rabbit's clever," said Pooh thoughtfully.
"Yes," said Piglet, "Rabbit's clever."
"And he has Brain."
"Yes," said Piglet, "Rabbit has Brain."
There was a long silence.
"I suppose," said Pooh, "that that's why he never understands anything.”

-------------------------

“You can't stay in your corner of the Forest waiting for others to come to you. You have to go to them sometimes.”

----------------------

“Think it over, think it under.”

ziggyosterberg said...


"I live in the NOW, Christopher Robin!"

"It looks like we're gonna have to show Tigger how to do it"

"Now is the time for Pooh Sticks"

Fiddy 8 said...

“How does one become butterfly?' Pooh asked pensively.
'You must want to fly so much that you are willing to give up being a caterpillar,' Piglet replied.
'You mean to die?' asked Pooh.
'Yes and no,' he answered. 'What looks like you will die, but what's really you will live on.”

ziggyosterberg said...


Ahhhh. So Piglet is Manson.


BTW, I'm surprised that's a real quote from Winnie the Pooh. (I Googled it). It's very Mansonish.