tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post3807526219891901714..comments2024-03-27T21:24:06.590-04:00Comments on The Manson Family Blog: Gary Hinman's Bus -- AgainMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-8053792733642278962017-12-06T16:40:30.343-05:002017-12-06T16:40:30.343-05:00The drug deal of a drug that isn't even illega...<b>The drug deal of a drug that isn't even illegal can no longer be said to be wrong at this point</b><br /><br /><b>Except that the drug Gary manufactured and sold wasn't illegal</b><br /><br />Scratch these two statements. Mescaline wasn't federally illegal until 1970 but it was illegal under California state law in 1969.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-49055556263145733802017-05-09T19:03:07.277-04:002017-05-09T19:03:07.277-04:00I agree with Grim. It was Charlie that showed up a...I agree with Grim. It was Charlie that showed up and pushed things past the point of no return. <br /><br />I'm curious about a discrepancy between the accepted version of events and Bobby's recent parole hearing testimony concerning the writing in blood on the wall. In the original version, Bobby wrote it on the wall, but then either he or someone else returned later to wipe it off. In later versions at his parole hearings, they leave the house and no mention is made of any writing in blood. Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08760641498649508874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-76980454433768819912016-06-05T12:35:26.899-04:002016-06-05T12:35:26.899-04:00Brilliant quote and a truthfully valid point. Well...Brilliant quote and a truthfully valid point. Well done Austin Ann. Really enjoyed that, nice work!!!<br /><br /><br />And Justice for Allhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11912119169341388557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-25237203110210759202016-04-17T14:02:47.130-04:002016-04-17T14:02:47.130-04:00Except that the drug Gary manufactured and sold wa...Except that the drug Gary manufactured and sold wasn't illegal.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-38908234027278221892016-04-02T05:59:27.599-04:002016-04-02T05:59:27.599-04:00One good reason to disbelieve the drug deal theory...One good reason to disbelieve the drug deal theory is that according to Beausoleil, Hinman was killed because he was insisting on going to the police over his slashed ear. Does a dealer go to the cops? What's he going to say? If he grasses Bobby or Charlie, they can tell the cops the drug angle.fiona1933https://www.blogger.com/profile/00041216158548547908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-89081074223379474962016-03-05T20:41:14.148-05:002016-03-05T20:41:14.148-05:00Martin Colter said...
Gary may have been trying t... Martin Colter said...<br /><br /><b>Gary may have been trying to work something like that out and didn't really know what he was doing. You can get mixed up with some pretty bad apples like a bike gang that way quickly and get in over your head</b><br /><br />I agree that sort of thing can happen. But not if Bobby's story is true. We are talking about 1000 hits of mescaline. Remember Bobby's words ¬> "And they wanted to score something different, some psychedelics for their party. And I thought that I might be able to impress them to, you know, to kind of get in with them if I were to set up a deal for them. I knew someone in Topanga Canyon who made mescaline out of peyote cactus buds. That was Gary Hinman. I'd known Gary for a couple of yearsand I saw an opportunity to sort of ingratiate myself in these ~ with these people. So I set up a deal."<br />If Bobby was happy to provide via Gary, then Gary must have known what he was doing. Bobby may not have been wise but he wasn't stupid.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-21951877487404495702016-03-04T18:44:34.435-05:002016-03-04T18:44:34.435-05:00Here's my take. I have read Bobby's story...Here's my take. I have read Bobby's story and it made much more sense to me that the "official" version. The thing is, I can see it happening that way. As to the drug dealing. I was attracted to the same kind of thing. Though I came from a family that would have been shocked at my activities, making something like mescaline has an attraction to some people like myself in my younger years. Maybe the same way growing pot attracts some people. It takes a little skill, research and scheming to pull it off. When I was in 8th grade, I collected together a crap load of marijuana resins and reasoning that it came from really high grade weed I figured I could make some kind of homemade hash from it and make money! All I did was compress resin into cubes and sold it. I didn't figure there'd be one guy that had the experience to know the difference in my little town to bust me with my scam but that's exactly what happened and there I was refunding his money. Gary may have been trying to work something like that out and didn't really know what he was doing. You can get mixed up with some pretty bad apples like a bike gang that way quickly and get in over your head.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17371156338355183538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-69557512909888949292016-03-04T13:00:59.856-05:002016-03-04T13:00:59.856-05:00Cielodrive.com said...
When Mary Brunner testifie...Cielodrive.com said...<br /><br /><b>When Mary Brunner testified that Leslie and not herself was at Gary's house, Mary related what Susan had told her about happened. One thing she mentioned was there were dope dealers at the house and there was some kind of fight. I don't really know what to think about what she said because so much of it was fabricated</b><br /><br />I find it almost impossible to believe Mary Brunner. She reckons all she said in the Beausoleil trial was prepared for her by the police. She emphasized that she said what she said about Gary's ear because the police told her what to say. <br />But she was there !<br />In Robert's book, when she talks, I find myself wondering if she really imagined back then that the entire world was composed of a planet of brainless asses that couldn't see through the newly found criminal superbrain of the wonder librarian from Wisconsin.<br />That all said, I did say I find her <i>almost</i> impossible to believe. Because she does actually say some things that are plausible. I don't believe the cops told her what to say but I do believe they leaned on her heavily and threatened her with taking away her son unless she testified. And they were pretty clear about what they needed testimony about. But I don't know what she was complaining about. She was involved in a murder in which a guy had had part of his ear hacked almost in half and as he was dying, nicked $27 out of his wallet. Then later on implicates Leslie in a murder that could bring the death penalty when everyone knows she wasn't there.<br />Classy. <br />In Robert's book she admits that she lived with Gary {though not as an item} which was later reiterated in two books by Susan Atkins and she also told Laurence Merrick that Gary was.............into dope dealing.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-73050804113134599732016-03-01T10:42:57.196-05:002016-03-01T10:42:57.196-05:00Thanks George. When Mary Brunner testified that Le...Thanks George. When Mary Brunner testified that Leslie and not herself was at Gary's house, Mary related what Susan had told her about happened. One thing she mentioned was there were dope dealers at the house and there was some kind of fight. I don't really know what to think about what she said because so much of it was fabricated. However, if there was a dope deal, I'd imagine there had to be a third party involved. I struggle greatly with Bobby saying Gary was dealing "lightweight" and then saying he sold him 1000 hits of mescaline for a grand. That's about $6500 today. I don't consider that a lightweight transaction. Mescaline might not be difficult to make, but what is the yield when producing it? Can one make 1000 hits fairly quickly or would that require several productions? CieloDrive.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03772677089227025942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-63967197090513083562016-02-29T21:26:55.316-05:002016-02-29T21:26:55.316-05:00@ Cielodrive,
Dealing dope, no. Drugs in the hous...@ Cielodrive,<br /><br />Dealing dope, no. Drugs in the house, yes. George Stimsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01335003151229883480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-12449909143305293722016-02-29T20:24:01.226-05:002016-02-29T20:24:01.226-05:00Her transcripts are in the worksHer transcripts are in the worksCieloDrive.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03772677089227025942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-89969827611978086342016-02-29T17:50:18.311-05:002016-02-29T17:50:18.311-05:00Cielodrive.com said...
Ella testified at Manson&#... Cielodrive.com said...<br /><br /><b>Ella testified at Manson's Hinman/Shea trial and Davis' trial.......I'm curious, does Sandy have any recollections of Gary dealing dope ?</b><br /><br />I can't remember if it was Dennis/MFA that reprinted it but somewhere recently, I saw a part of Ella's trial testimony from, I think, Bruce's trial and Ella Jo was affirmative in her answers about mescaline being bought from Gary. That's another set of trial testimony I'd love to read.<br /><br /> George Stimson said...<br /><br /><b>Why does it matter? <br /><br />If the first motive version (the strong-arm robbery gone bad scenario) is true, it reinforces the perception of Charles Manson and the people around him as being violently murderous sociopaths who would stop at nothing in order to further their own interests. If the second motive version (a drug deal gone bad) is true it reinforces an alternative perception of those same persons being caught up in unfortunate criminal circumstances that spiraled out of control and culminated in murder</b><br /><br />Call me the proverbial double minded wishy washy man but I think both have elements that are true. Bobby's story seems to be presented in such a way as to challenge the hearer to "man up and pick a side" {ladies, my apologies ~ it's not my phrase} and Charlie has kind of picked up and run with this. But examining the various perspectives on this, I think that both really have true aspects to them. Because even in the first version, nowhere are we ever told that the initial intention was to kill Gary.<br />In a way, by being presented with the alternative, the person who comes out of this worst is Charlie. Because either scenario leaves him culpable but the alternative makes him much more directly so. One defence that the helter skeptics always utilize is that Charlie wasn't present at any of the TLB deaths and didn't kill anybody by his own hand. Fair comment. With Gary Hinman, that ME's autopsy sinks him bad and even without it, I can't escape the conclusion that Charlie's rather than the Satans part in matters is what did for Gary Hinman. It's a catch 22 lose~lose that he can't really escape from.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-62729488395647046612016-02-29T14:11:35.684-05:002016-02-29T14:11:35.684-05:00No problem George. I'm curious, does Sandy hav...No problem George. I'm curious, does Sandy have any recollections of Gary dealing dope?CieloDrive.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03772677089227025942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-16913753721333687182016-02-29T08:48:54.141-05:002016-02-29T08:48:54.141-05:00
Thank you for the correction, Cielo. <br />Thank you for the correction, Cielo. George Stimsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01335003151229883480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-60914686485987280502016-02-29T03:04:54.241-05:002016-02-29T03:04:54.241-05:00Hey Grim, Ella testified at Manson's Hinman/Sh...Hey Grim, Ella testified at Manson's Hinman/Shea trial and Davis' trial. She did not testify at either of Bobby's trialsCieloDrive.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03772677089227025942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-75470810359803138792016-02-28T10:44:43.652-05:002016-02-28T10:44:43.652-05:00George Stimson said...
Some people have decried t...George Stimson said...<br /><br /><b>Some people have decried the description of Gary Hinman as a "drug dealer" as a libel against a dead person unable to defend himself, but it is worth noting that the term "drug dealer" can be used to describe a wide variety of individuals, from the stereotypical image of the shady character peddling narcotics on the schoolyard to someone who is merely a friend who can get you drugs. Hinman likelier fit more into the latter category</b><br /><br />I think that part of the reason that many have had issues with Gary being described as a drug dealer is because the overwhelming majority of people do not pick up on the nuances of that phrase. We have this image of the drug dealer, that essentially comes from an amalgamation of movies, biographies, books on rock stars and news items, some good, some realistic, some awful, some totally nonsensical. But over a period of 70 years the image {whether shady, streetwise, drugged out or smart suited and booted} has built and stuck.<br />But lots of people "who know someone" have acquired drugs for their friends or friends of their friends. I used to do it myself and I never considered myself as a drug dealer anymore than if I was picking up a consignment of chocolate and passing some to friends would I have seen myself as a chocolate dealer !<br />With Gary it has become a thing because he's dead and no one outside the Family says they bought stuff from him {aside from this upcoming Straight Satan doc that MFA has told us about and as it's essentially supposedly corroborating Bobby, then we're in the same situation}. Whereas with Tex and Lotsapoppa, one is still alive and one was alive long enough for us to get a good sense of their drug dealing ways and they both get a bad press because a] Tex is a murderer and was a lousy individual in his drug dealing days and b] Lotsapoppa, if his TLB trial testimony is anything to go by, was hardly a boy scout. He was an embarrassment on just about every level.<br />Death, especially death by murder, seems to have a way of making people reassess the dead one and many of us become reluctant to ascribe heavily negative stuff to them, especially when the only noises being made about their dark sides are coming from people with even darker sides or ulterior motives and agendas.<br />That doesn't make the dark sides of the deceased untrue, though.<br />We're unlikely to ever discover the truth about Gary Hinman and drug sales. But even if we did, it still wouldn't make a great deal of difference as to why he was killed. The man who killed him has told us why he was killed and it wasn't <i>because</i> of drugs. grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-27749609047032244282016-02-27T14:24:03.356-05:002016-02-27T14:24:03.356-05:00George Stimson said...
Hey Grim, I emailed you
G...George Stimson said...<br /><br /><b>Hey Grim, I emailed you</b><br /><br />Got it George ! <br />Thanks.<br />grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-25250279137107783462016-02-27T09:40:58.822-05:002016-02-27T09:40:58.822-05:00Hey Grim, I emailed you. Hey Grim, I emailed you. George Stimsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01335003151229883480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-22044466432622038832016-02-27T02:02:58.275-05:002016-02-27T02:02:58.275-05:00Bobby Beausoleil said....
It was 1,000 tabs or ca...Bobby Beausoleil said....<br /><br /><b>It was 1,000 tabs or capsules of homemade mescaline for 1,000 dollars. [But] the next day [after the mescaline was delivered to the club], [they] came back to the Spahn Ranch and essentially [they] kind of beat me up. You know. They hit me in the stomach and, you know, pushed me around and held a knife up to my throat and said they wanted the money back because I had sold them bunk. They said that they had gotten sick on the drugs, and they wanted their money back. So I told them I would do everything I could to get the money back."</b><br /><br />1000 tabs of mescaline.<br />Were there that many bikers trying to trip ? They didn't have a single tab left for Bobby to give to his supplier to test it out for it's bunkness ?<br />One of the big ????s against Bobby's tale for me is the timeline. If it was pot they had bought and Gary had just provided them with thyme and herbs {as happened to me and a mate once in our young days}, then all the bikers would have known within 30 minutes that they'd been sold a pup. Mescaline isn't like that. Peyote is that hallucinogen that used to turn tribal Indians mad as they were whisked off to lands unknown, back in time through "previous lives." Part of the onset of the drug was intense throwing up, especially for those not experienced in it. It was the sickness that intensified the early rush of the trip. But either way a trip would be anything from 8 to 14 hours and sometimes more than 20. The sick Satans would have had to travel a bit of a distance to come and knock Bobby about which calls into question whether they <i>were</i> sick. But Bobby said he picked up the drugs from Gary on Friday night so exactly when did the Satans come to Spahn for Bobby ? At what point were all these drugs distributed and how long did it take to determine that 1000 tabs had been ingested and every taker of them was sick ? Are you really in a condition to go fighting someone after you've been getting sick for goodness knows how many hours on a hallucinogenic drug ?<br />It's a really tight timeline. It's far more problematic than Cielo night.<br />But stranger things have happened.<br />grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-51844271041871792032016-02-27T01:37:24.198-05:002016-02-27T01:37:24.198-05:00George Stimson said...
as Ella Jo Bailey testifie...George Stimson said...<br /><br /><b>as Ella Jo Bailey testified at Beausoleil's first trial (which ended with a hung jury)</b><br /><br />Did Ella Jo Bailey actually testify at any of Bobby's trials ? She certainly didn't at the first one. I don't know about the second {I look forward to reading the transcripts of that one day} but Dennis/MFA stated in his July Hinman article that she didn't even speak to police about the Hinman murders until March '71.<br /><br /><br /><b>this aspect of "get money" was not introduced at Beausoleil's second trial where he was successfully convicted. Was it not mentioned because the prosecution knew that it was nebulous?</b><br /><br />No. It was not mentioned at the second trial because the prosecution had Mary Brunner dropping bombs on Bobby. It's Mary's testimony that made the difference between a hung jury and death. In the first trial, none of the other defendants were there. Bobby didn't even have to speak. He doesn't, other than to say he hadn't slept well or something like that.<br />But in that trial, the "get money" angle isn't emphasized as such, it's used mainly as a raison d'etre to demonstrate that prior to the death, Bobby had told Kitty why he was going away for a few days to "get money from a rich faggot." But it's never definitively established that it's Hinman being spoken of. Danny DeCarlo mentions it in passing.<br />So Mary made the difference. Such a huge one, that she thought by recanting, it would get Bobby off Death Row. Susan thought the same thing about Charlie. Both were wrong.<br /><br /><b>Remember, trials are where contentions might have to be supported by actual evidence, as opposed to books, media statements, or even statements to police, where no rules of evidence are in effect</b><br /><br />One could just as easily apply all this logic to Bobby and the mescaline story.<br />Fact is, both versions {get money or get money back} lack actual hardcore evidence. Giving a van to someone who knows a brother of a Straight Satan is hardly corroborating evidence. What does it corroborate ? It doesn't even begin to explain <i>why</i> Marcus Arneson was given the van, let alone how this has anything to do with the Satans getting their money back, which you emphasize is all they wanted and gave Bobby some good blaffs and showed him the blade to show their intent. To describe Arneson as "a known close associate of the Straight Satans motorcycle club" is one heck of a stretch. It's rather making the most of the most tenuous link imaginable. <br />It is inescapable that both versions of the happening are actually reliant, not upon actual evidence, but the word of <i>people</i>, some of it gossip, maybe some of it actual. Unreliable people, at that. People with ulterior motives. People who have demonstrated that <i>that which is factual and reliably verifiable</i> is not something they have counted as a high priority in their lives.<br />Ultimately, the evidence that can be relied on in the Hinman killing is circumstancial and that led to the right people for the crime, with Mary Brunner highly fortunate to have escaped at Bobby's expense.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-28435378535788758732016-02-27T00:39:45.369-05:002016-02-27T00:39:45.369-05:00George Stimson said...
What could turn the previo... George Stimson said...<br /><br /><b>What could turn the previously carefree and non-violent Bobby Beausoleil into someone who could bludgeon and stab another person to death? Ruling out a sudden and inexplicable metamorphosis into a sociopathic hit man, a likelier explanation is that he had recently had such violence visited upon himself</b><br /><br />The implication being there that he was afraid of the Satans after the vintage violence that they'd supposedly visited on his person.<br />But for me, that is one of the mighty chasms in your prognosis, indeed, it is where the entire "Gary died as a result of a drug deal gone wrong" falls down because Bobby Beausoleil has repeatedly said that he had sorted out the problem with Gary. He claims Gary had turned over the pink slips to him and so at that point, there is no longer any problem. No Satans to be shitting oneself about. No recurring nightmares of another Satans battering....or worse. It is done and dusted and it's a win~win for everyone. Gary refunds the money. Bobby doesn't get razored. The Satans get some money and a VW to carry their bikes in. Gary gets to go to Japan and chant. Mary & Susan no longer have to witness any violence {ironically, they both end up in jail because of it}. Bobby & Gary patch up their quarrel. There's no chance of the Satans deciding to pay Gary "a visit." The drug deal of a drug that isn't even illegal can no longer be said to be wrong at this point. It is no longer in the realm of "gone wrong" because all has been made well.<br />Enter Charlie. With sword.<br />Another point worth considering is this: even after Charlie has whacked Gary with the sword, as far as the Satans are concerned, all is well. Everything I stated earlier still applies. As you pointed out "the Straight Satans just wanted their money back. They didn't care if the money came from Hinman or from the man in the moon." Crazier still, even Gary's eventual death doesn't make it the realm of "a drug deal gone wrong." Because if Gary did give Bobby the pink slips, then the vehicles were legally his.<br />Another way of considering this matter is this; had Charlie not turned up, would Gary Hinman still have been killed ? If Bobby's story is true, then the answer to this can only be 'no, he would not.'grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-723549950633549672016-02-27T00:11:21.793-05:002016-02-27T00:11:21.793-05:00This is the third heavyweight "Gary Hinman&qu...This is the third heavyweight "Gary Hinman" thread since July. You could loosely characterize George's and Dennis's as being more pro Charlie and St Circumstance's as being more "Bobby is guilty and there is more evidence from the various players of robbery than drug deal."<br />All three have something fascinating in common which has only just occurred to me. None of them speaks of the <i>reason</i> that we are actually given by the murderer himself, why Gary Hinman got murdered. And that reason is essentially Charles Manson. Bobby is crystal clear on this across a number of parole hearings, that the reason he killed Gary is because he wanted to go to hospital to get his face seen to and that would have brought in the police.<br />And why was his face needing to be seen to ?<br /><br />As an aside, it's worth focusing for a moment on Hinman wanting to go to hospital. Susan Atkins, Mary Brunner, Charlie and Bobby have all rather underplayed the seriousness of the wound that Charlie dealt Gary. It's nonchalantly and flippantly referred to as a guy getting his ear cut off or cut in half. Charlie says he gave instructions for Gary's face to be taken care of, Bobby and Mary both say they sewed up his face, Susan speaks of going to get the necessary stuff to tend to his wounds and in court says <i>she</i> tried to sew the wound. Now, unbeknownst to them all, that wound would later be written up by the medical examiner as "possibly fatal" and he went on to explain that had the bleeding not been properly stemmed, Hinman could have died. It required a Doc who knew what they were doing, not a group of Spahn ranchers that had group trouble identifying when someone was dead {a la Crowe, LaBianca, Shea and Frykowski}. That wound went to a depth of an inch. Just as an experiment, measure off an inch and imagine that depth on your own face. Any inch deep wound is going to hurt. But on your face ? We are talking grade A agony here. And no pain relief. And it was 5 inches long. No wonder Gary wanted to get to the hospital. And don't forget, after that had happened, he'd tried to escape and "been prevented from doing so." Read into that what you will. <br />We all generally know our bodies, what causes us discomfort and when we can hold on and when we can't. Hinman was no mug. He knew he needed proper attention. It's one thing to deliver a couple of babies and sever the umbilical cord with a guitar string. It's another thing altogether to get a guy from a point where he could possibly die to survival. His pain is what drove him to want to go to hospital.<br />That ultimately is what got him killed.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-17141138763174660522016-02-26T17:16:09.479-05:002016-02-26T17:16:09.479-05:00The robbery motive started with Kitty Lutesinger. ...The robbery motive started with Kitty Lutesinger. The only other account of what happened prior to her talking was from Atkins (Hinman died during a sex act with her). She implicated her God Charles Manson and Susan Atkins. Yet when you look at the 2nd LaBianca Homicide Report, the source of that story is "unknown". In other words, she wasn't scared enough to not implicate Charlie but kept her mouth closed about who told her that story.<br /><br />Which is curious. Because Al Springer of the Straight Satans told Police:<br /><br />""this other girl kitty, or Patty or something like that. She not only probably has talked to ya, but once she sees Danny, her on her own, from what he hears, she's going to let it all hang out too. Everything she knows right to a T, So I figured I'd get the ball rolling. because I don't want to see Danny get in trouble for something he didn't do"<br /><br />So, they knew she talked to them and for clearly let's them know that SHE is going to corroborate what HE is saying and that she spoke to DeCarlo. He's confident this girl is going to back up what he and later Decarlo, is telling them.<br /><br />Unless you're naive person, it's pretty clear to see that Kitty was either talked into or threatened into giving cops a story that absolves them of any wrong doing. THIS is how that motive started and the DA ran with it.<br /><br />What makes it all the more funny, shorty before Kitty talked to them and brought up DeCarlo, they were already after him when his name came up when investigating the bus. I suspect word reached him and he put Kitty up to telling that bullshit story.<br /><br />Sgt. Paul Whiteley,: "He had nothing to do with this car, as far as I know. In other words, I originally received information fourth hand that Daniel Decarlo had possibly been in possession of a Volkswagen bus at some time. Just about the time that I received this information, I was called to Independence, California, where I talked to other witnesses who told me that Daniel Decarlo had nothing to do with the car; that it was another person, and I just completely dropped him at that time"<br />THE COURT: But it subsequently revealed that he actually did have something to do with it?<br />Sgt. Paul Whiteley,:Yes.<br /><br />RIGHT. After DeCarlo had Kitty tell a bullshit story he later corroborated. Not to mention DeCarlo was in bed with Bugliosi shortly after, giving a tour of the Ranch and helping him build his case.Manson Mythoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10335867657444116691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-21026357397181487182016-02-26T15:14:17.687-05:002016-02-26T15:14:17.687-05:00Gary had been planning a trip and the family knew ...Gary had been planning a trip and the family knew he had money saved. Also, Charlie prodded Bobby by saying "you know what you gotta do, be a man and take care of it". He said this after he nearly sliced Gary's ear off with a long assed knife. Remember?Ballarat Babehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17230524748768198274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-17820719327150530452016-02-26T11:19:30.956-05:002016-02-26T11:19:30.956-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.com