tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post4599650786782339332..comments2024-03-27T21:24:06.590-04:00Comments on The Manson Family Blog: Five To PukeMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comBlogger138125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-29443783967663132482022-04-19T16:41:17.456-04:002022-04-19T16:41:17.456-04:00And Putin has proved now to be a really awful pers...And Putin has proved now to be a really awful person.Loegria15https://www.blogger.com/profile/05228022510504226954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-17841271796487407932021-02-02T05:39:29.911-05:002021-02-02T05:39:29.911-05:00You never need to scroll to the bottom to verify t...You never need to scroll to the bottom to verify the author of a Stimsom article.<br /><br />The defence of Manson usually starts in the first paragraph.Tragical History Tourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16419266493227241434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-85392356108167679442018-08-20T20:52:38.951-04:002018-08-20T20:52:38.951-04:00brownrice said...
Funnily enough, they’re also a ...brownrice said...<br /><br /><b>Funnily enough, they’re also a primary source for the prosecution</b><br /><br />Interestingly, when accused by the Paul Fitzgerald of telling a different story to Ivor Davis than the one he was telling in court, Brooks Poston said that that was not the case. But later, Poston volunteered that some of what he told Davis was not represented accurately in the actual book "Five to die."<br /><br /><b> Many in the “underground” at the time felt that some kinda “revolution” or shake-up was imminent. Lots of people were talking this way. The whole rural commune movement was at least partially inspired by a desire to get away from the imminent shit-storm. Only Charlie & his friends though called it Helter Skelter. To separate “helter skelter” from the broader cultural trends at the time and turn it into a motive always looked like Vince’s doing to me... but it's looking like it was actually down to sleazy tabloid creeps like Ivor Davis & Lawrence Schiller</b><br /><br />On the other hand, maybe the Family were the group that actually chose to do something rather than just talk revolution and shit storms....<br /><br /> Mr. Humphrat said...<br /><br /> <b>you say those three guys knew how to use tabloid stories to their benefit-in what way did they benefit?</b><br /><br />I have to say, during the trial, Brooks Poston was brazen about how he benefitted !<br /><br />FITZGERALD: What was your motive in selling this story ? <br /><br />POSTON: <i>Money.</i><br /><br />Q: You thought you could make a little money off Charlie ?<br /><br />A: <i>Yeah.</i><br /><br />Q: How much did you make ?<br /><br />A: <i>I think I got $1100.</i> grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-86325072154019767862018-08-13T21:43:58.625-04:002018-08-13T21:43:58.625-04:00ColScott said...
Also I knew Stovitz and I f... ColScott said...<br /><br /> <b> Also I knew Stovitz and I find it very unlikely he would have said such a thing. He knew that Helter Skelter was BUG's brain damage</b><br /><br />Interestingly, when Stovitz spoke to Rolling Stone reporters off the record in March 1970, he described the theories as his. He starts by saying <i>"But uh, I don't think that, on the night of the killings that he thought Melcher lived there anymore. He just thought that rich people lived there, part of the Establishment, and that, he had this plan of setting in progress this revolution – of uh, blacks against whites."</i><br />Then later, when speaking about how he feels the copycat is part of the motive and how there's no evidence for it, just his hunch, he says <i>"Well, you got to remember this.There's a difference between theory and proof. We won't be able to prove this in court.This is my theory. Just as it's my theory also that this killing was part of an overall uh, deal, to put into play Manson's philosophy."</i><br />So even in 1970, before the trial he had a certain ownership of the HS direction.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-31623540982766399612017-09-26T19:11:30.780-04:002017-09-26T19:11:30.780-04:00Didnt read for a While....Not realy much time. So...Didnt read for a While....Not realy much time. So had my whole evening filled last night..... Cool Posts,...intresting , Greetz To Y"All ,<br />from Gold-Coast Brisbane Australia <br />Hanz<br />HellzBellzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17922649120979516836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-22701314640434892652017-09-24T20:53:48.764-04:002017-09-24T20:53:48.764-04:00JAY EEE TEE ESS JETS JETS JETS!!, (sorry...)JAY EEE TEE ESS JETS JETS JETS!!, (sorry...)Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-18455309469785790692017-09-24T13:59:57.340-04:002017-09-24T13:59:57.340-04:00St.C. said: "I still maintain that H/S is the...St.C. said: "I still maintain that H/S is the best I have read and probably the closest to the truth we will ever get."<br /><br />I agree HS remans the front-runner in the horse race for plausible explanations even though I'll always be open to other possibilities, and have even considered many times the reason for the Family actions being several rather than just one.<br /><br />St.C. said: "I wait with baited breathe or the definitive movie to come put and hope that Quinten can come through."<br /><br />For me the probability of a movie accurately portraying all that went down is less likely than a rationale explanation for lost airline luggage in the rings of Saturn. For starters the producers and director need to fully understand "all" rather than regurgitate media hype which has been the case so far. At best maybe a well researched documentary -- perhaps get Ken Burns on the case.<br /><br />Robert Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11931071604173368606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-47397748864178123212017-09-24T11:01:50.027-04:002017-09-24T11:01:50.027-04:002/2
Ed Sanders and The guy who wrote Ultimate Ev...2/2<br /><br /><br />Ed Sanders and The guy who wrote Ultimate Evil simply used each other a sources to spread one crazy rumor after another. There are so many things in Sanders book which I know came from faulty sourcing- I'm not sure how to trust any of it? It was an ok read though before I knew all of this lol<br /><br />Tex's online book- Will you Die for me" was one of my other favorite things to read. There aren't many articles about him. He doesn't have nearly as many parole hearings transcripts to read/view as the others. This was the first time I got to learn his history and hear his version of the way things went down, from the actual person who did the crimes. Chilling and even more reason to believe he is twice as as scary as Charlie.<br /><br />Atkins books were horrible. Her final piece of literature- posted online as she was expiring- the Myth of H/S was the most believable thing she ever wrote- but Im still not sure I believe all of it. She claimed to have learned a lot from "overhearing" and being in the right place at right time kind of stuff...<br /><br />Some really interesting stuff about Manson and the Music scene can be found in the Books "Laurel Canyon" by Michael Walker, and Charlies Topanga days are covered in "Shakey" by Jimmy Mcdonoughs bio of Neil Young.<br /><br />Also there is an online series 'Inside the LC" which has a whole Chapter about Charlie- and mentions him and his encounters with many of the Laurel Canyon consegneti throughout. This gave me a whole bunch of information that wasn't in any of the other books on the case.<br /><br />I will let others read Simons book ans let me know if it is better than his appearances here....<br /><br />Anything else I read was, to me, so unmemorable- I don't really remember it enough to cast an opinion. I have all the videos and DVD's as well, but I recently gave them away to an other member of the community who hadn't seen any of them. The only ones I ever re-watched were MR. H- documentary, and I felt the need to spread them around for the less fortunate to get a chance to view the last, greatest live recordings of life on the ranch any of us will ever see...<br /><br />I wait with baited breathe or the definitive movie to come put and hope that Quinten can come through.<br /><br />Alas, I think we have already read the definitive book on the case, and ultimately- like it or not- H/S will end up being the last word....<br /><br />Happy Sunday and lots of football and beer for everyone I hope :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10291550902325920904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-84250549368385024322017-09-24T11:01:35.875-04:002017-09-24T11:01:35.875-04:001/2
George this post has made me think back at al...1/2<br /><br />George this post has made me think back at all the Books about the TLB case. I have read probably 75% of the books published specifically about the case, and a dozen or so Biographies about people who came across Charlie and had chapters that mentioned him...<br /><br />I will never read Schrek because I cant take anything a guy takes seriously who thinks he is vampire one minute and a monk the next. I don't even think he should count.<br /><br />I still maintain that H/S is the best I have read and probably the closest to the truth we will ever get.<br /><br />I like Restless Souls almost as much as H/S. It tells the same story - but from the victims side, and Deb Tate is my hero forever. Every pro-Manson Family person should be forced to listen the an audio version of that book- like every anti-semetic should be forced to walk through the Holocaust museum in DC. Until you can really comprehend the pain and suffering some people cause- you should be careful when you comment about it. It is so classless.<br /><br />Marylin Marlin or whomever book was ok too... He pretty much plays it straight and gives his mostly qualified psych opinions. We get to here Charlie a little bit too.<br /><br />Geroge- your book was a good read, and well done job of you to get it self-published. But, your book is much like a lot of the rest of them. Trying to push forth a pro-Manson agenda that hold water in some arguments, and not so much in others. I did like the part towards the end where you compare what Charlie says about the girls today versus how they speak of him. You definitely made your point there in that he is a lot less hostile and more forgiving. Which in most cases would be a sign of graciousness. But, considering what the mistake of following Charlie ended up costed the others, isn't it sort of understandable that the others would be more bitter than vice versa?<br /><br />( Here is where the die-hard Mansonites will say that the Girls got Charlie in trouble and that's where they totally loose me. How can anyone believe that? How can anyone say Charlie didn't call the shots?)<br /><br />Long Strange Prison Journey of LULU was easily the worst book about this case that anyone ever wrote. Only the strongest of feminists and Grim like this book :)<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10291550902325920904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-34509894736484444562017-09-24T07:21:06.561-04:002017-09-24T07:21:06.561-04:00I think during the cross of one of the girls when ...I think during the cross of one of the girls when they are spinning their various lies trying to clear Charlie, Mary and Bonby, , Bugliosi asks why and they talk about the music and Melcher and his response was "that is why that house was chosen, but what was the motive for the murders". Which is true in that they don't need to be the same. Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08760641498649508874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-22499531976467159502017-09-23T20:07:53.162-04:002017-09-23T20:07:53.162-04:00Another fine and informative post, Mr. Stimson. Di...Another fine and informative post, Mr. Stimson. Different folks seem to be drawn to different angles of the case. Mr. Stimson and David/Dreath, and the various commenter of late, are foremost among those drawn to the still murky motive. For me, the music angle continues to interest me most. <br /><br />In that vein, I chanced upon Dean Martin’s daughter Deana Martin's 2004 memoirs "Memories Are Made of This" today. In it, she spends a few pages detailing her encounters with CM circa 1968-1969. While dating Terry Melcher at age 19 or 20, she met CM at Cielo Drive two or three times. The first time was the oft-mentioned incident when CM gave her a silver Indian ring. Once when she met him at Cielo, CM was with Charles Watson and the other time(s) with Lynette Fromme and perhaps other females. At the time, Martin states that TM was working as an independent producer for Apple Records. A little Googling revealed that TM produced the Apple act Grapefruit in 1968. It makes one wonder if CM, like so many other unsigned musicians of that era, responded to Apple’s April 1968 “This Man Has Talent” advertisement. <br /><br />Further, regarding CM being at Cielo Drive, Mark Lindsay of Paul Revere & the Raiders recalls seeing CM at Cielo twice, meeting him once as CM sat in front of Cielo’s kitchen refrigerator, blocking Lindsay from opening it. (I don’t have a copy of Candice Bergen’s memoirs on hand, but I seem to recall her meeting CM at Cielo too. No?) I just had not realized how often CM had been to Cielo. Peace.<br />Chris Tillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13645842550523612266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-16260833703616272192017-09-22T22:41:50.721-04:002017-09-22T22:41:50.721-04:00David said...
Col,
You seem to be sugges... David said...<br /><br /> <b> Col,<br /><br /> You seem to be suggesting that Bugliosi could have received the death penalty for his alleged perjury. That is simply not the case. Here is the statute.<br /><br /> California Penal Code Section 128:</b><br /><br />You can 128 Scotty until everyone currently on earth is fertilizer of one description or another, it doesn't matter. You've explained this to him a number of times. <br />However, monomania is harder to crack than a diamond. He wilfully chooses to ignore all the things he claims to stand up for when it comes to justice, when it does not support his position re: Bugliosi and his propensity for continually going on about it is greater than that of those that are actually armed with facts. <br /><br /> robin torro said...<br /><br /> <b>Books written pre trial, all inaccurate</b><br /><br />I'm not sure that they are all inaccurate. They may be questionable, rubbish even, but inaccurate isn't the word I would use. Just about every book on the subject has <i>some</i> element of inaccuracy but it doesn't make the whole show so. <br /><br /><b>Why does no one, write the tex Watson murders?</b><br /><br />Maybe someone should put that to Charles Watson at his next parole hearing.....in 5 years time.<br />People ask that question as though it not being referred to in that way has resulted in Tex only serving 10 years. Few call them the Leslie Van Houten murders or the Patricia Krenwinkel murders but they're still inside too......grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-38409477917095308582017-09-22T19:57:59.898-04:002017-09-22T19:57:59.898-04:00I don't think he was sworn in. It all happened...I don't think he was sworn in. It all happened in chambers. As an officer of the court he was probably under a similar obligation but he did not take an oath. Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08760641498649508874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-32471989244691965762017-09-22T19:52:24.680-04:002017-09-22T19:52:24.680-04:00ColScott,
IF (caps on purpose) Bug had caused/he...ColScott, <br /><br />IF (caps on purpose) Bug had caused/helped Kasabian, Jakobon, etc., etc. to lie. And IF someone was innocent (not sure who that would be) and IF the innocent person was executed. You win. <br /><br />But lying about turning the Hollywood Hit List (alleged) over to a reporter and lying about it. Clearly, you are not a disbarred attorney. The oath really goes like this: <br /><br />Do you swear.... [Witness: all the time]<br />To tell the truth....[Maybe, about what?]<br />The whole truth....[ Not likely]<br />And nothing but the truth.....[of course not]<br />Under penalties of perjury? I do. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551377673977145628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-14463072210032081722017-09-22T18:24:28.119-04:002017-09-22T18:24:28.119-04:00Davey
Bug could have and should have received the...Davey<br /><br />Bug could have and should have received the Death Penalty for his perjury.<br /><br />GoliathColScotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04198505620789173534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-86159042722016822692017-09-22T18:11:38.225-04:002017-09-22T18:11:38.225-04:00Col,
You seem to be suggesting that Bugliosi cou...Col, <br /><br />You seem to be suggesting that Bugliosi could have received the death penalty for his alleged perjury. That is simply not the case. Here is the statute. <br /><br />California Penal Code Section 128: Every person who, by willful perjury or subornation of perjury procures the conviction and execution of any innocent person, is punishable by death or life imprisonment without possibility of parole. The penalty shall be determined pursuant to Sections 190.3 and 190.4.<br />Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551377673977145628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-13225393131665304592017-09-22T17:42:37.948-04:002017-09-22T17:42:37.948-04:00Was he acquitted or did it all go no where? I can...Was he acquitted or did it all go no where? I can't recall.<br /><br /><br />So according to you the rules only apply SOME times?ColScotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04198505620789173534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-89214242389859520132017-09-22T16:33:07.741-04:002017-09-22T16:33:07.741-04:00Col. I understand that. I've seen the posts on...Col. I understand that. I've seen the posts on this topic on the other blog. It makes sense that if you secure a guilty verdict in a case with the penalty of death by perjuring yourself that you should face the same penalty. It's basically using the legal process to murder someone.<br /><br />But. <br /><br />Bugliosi was eventually acquitted. And, I'm not sure you would apply the rule to Bugliosi's alleged perjury the same way you would apply it to someone who perjures themselves on the stand to the jury, which is probably what that law was contemplating. But I am just a humble, small town antitrust lawyer, so I don't know for sure.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08760641498649508874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-37701036332047794952017-09-22T16:00:19.108-04:002017-09-22T16:00:19.108-04:00Petey
This allegation was for subornation and ne...Petey<br /><br /><br />This allegation was for subornation and never got any traction<br /><br />He did in fact commit perjury on the stand during a Capital trial and despite what some might tell you it is in fact a capital offense. It has to be because if you lie about someone's guilt and they get killed by the state then you done did commit a crime that cannot be fixedColScotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04198505620789173534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-23271441686807849962017-09-22T15:02:08.828-04:002017-09-22T15:02:08.828-04:00Thank you everybody and sorry if I've sidetrac...Thank you everybody and sorry if I've sidetracked this thread a bit. <br /><br />I looked up the Bugliosi perjury allegation. What I'm seeing is something different. This has to do with allegations concerning subornation of perjury with respect to Sadie's Grand Jury testimony and related to the sale of her book.<br /><br />But the more I read, the more I'm convinced it's kind of a non-starter because it's all based on a bunch of bullshit.<br /><br />Basically, what happens - and I urge everyone to just pay Cielo the damn buck (or more if you can afford it because what he/she does is really a labor of love) and read the transcripts because it shows the genesis of all these alternate motive theories - is that the girls take the stand and try to absolve all the other Family members by claiming that: Bobby gave Gary $100 for a car and that when they went to get the car or their money back, Gary pulled a gun on Charlie so she stabbed him because he "threatened my love." (Sadie); that Gary was involved in dealing drugs (Mary); that Leslie was really there at Hinman's not Mary (Leslie); that Linda came up with the idea for the copy-cat killing because she was in love with Bobby (Sadie); that Linda had been burned for $1000 in a MDA drug deal by the residents at Cielo Drive; and that Leslie drove them all to Cielo Drive and then to Harold True's house the second night.(Sadie) That Sadie lied to the Grand Jury because her attorney said it was the only way for her to get off (Sadie), and that Marvin Part told Leslie to tell the same lies as Sadie on recordings so he could play them to psychiatrist and get her off on an insanity plea (Leslie).<br /><br /><br /><br />Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08760641498649508874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-63394516871103675632017-09-22T14:55:26.097-04:002017-09-22T14:55:26.097-04:00ColScott said: "....which in itself is a capi...ColScott said: "....which in itself is a capital offense."<br /><br />In the context of his lie: Nope.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551377673977145628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-75883284939045736112017-09-22T13:56:29.840-04:002017-09-22T13:56:29.840-04:00The Bug committed perjury in a capital crime which...The Bug committed perjury in a capital crime which in itself is a capital offense. He lied through his teeth and got away with it. He was mentally unwell and a sick fuck inside and outColScotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04198505620789173534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-40915652928160613022017-09-22T12:17:25.835-04:002017-09-22T12:17:25.835-04:00Peter said...
What is the whole thing with the Bu...Peter said...<br /><br /><b>What is the whole thing with the Bugliosi perjury indictment? My understanding is that is stems from an article that appeared in the LA Times where the author admits to receiving materials from two of the trial lawyers but never identifies which two</b><br /><br />Talk to ColScott about this one. He professes to be the expert. If you unreservedly agree with him on this one, you'll be an expert too.<br /><br /><b>At the time all the attorneys represented to the Court it wasn't them and since the allegation was that Bugliosi was one of them he perjured himself</b><br /><br />In his book, one of the interesting angles that Simon Davis majors on is the conduct of some of the defence lawyers. If what he has to say about them has any legs at all, then it's by no means unfeasible that Farr could have been given those transcripts from members of the defence. If his angle was in any way accurate, it would actually make sense and be quite logical that it came <i>from</i> them. Arguably, Daye Shinn brought in the newspaper with the '"Manson guilty, Nixon says !"' headline in the hopes that something would happen that might lead to a mistrial and Ivor Davis stated that throughout the trial, Paul Fitzgerald was a "great source of inside information" to the media. In George Bishop's "Witness to evil" from 1972, we see Fitzgerald making statements to the press about Pat's guilt, in clear contravention of the gag order, among other things.<br /><br /><b>What are the materials that they supposedly leaked?</b><br /><br />A supposed death list of various Hollywood celebs that the Family were supposedly out to get.<br /><br /><b>Kanarek keeps alleging that Bugliosi suborned perjury by Sadie in her Grand Jury testimony</b><br /><br />Have a listen to this <a href="https://vimeo.com/45600845" rel="nofollow">interview</a>, it's fascinating and although it's way into the future as regards the trial, it does give something of a window into some of Kanarek's moves and motivation. It's also sad in a way but that's just my take on it.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-76198773743423358842017-09-22T11:23:34.021-04:002017-09-22T11:23:34.021-04:00Troll Control
The blog will be on moderation for ...<b>Troll Control</b><br /><br />The blog will be on moderation for the foreseeable future. Comments won't post instantly but instead will have to wait for an Admin to approve it. We apologize, but the situation warrants it. We will check as often as we can to make your comments live.<br /><br /><br /> Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-91617044258935442122017-09-22T08:37:05.181-04:002017-09-22T08:37:05.181-04:00Thanks. Cielo and Deb. Thanks. Cielo and Deb. Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08760641498649508874noreply@blogger.com