tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post5492977761937915376..comments2024-03-27T21:24:06.590-04:00Comments on The Manson Family Blog: The Long Prison Journey of Leslie Van Houten - What is Fair Versus What is RightMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comBlogger123125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-78519930508170849192020-03-15T13:57:19.215-04:002020-03-15T13:57:19.215-04:00The Broker said...
Perhaps we can ask Sharon ... The Broker said...<br /><br /> <b>Perhaps we can ask Sharon Tate Polanski and her unborn son if Leslie should be paroled and enjoy the liberties that she unilaterally revoked from them.<br /><br /> Oh, wait: You mean Sharon's not around to expound? I guess she and her unborn son are still doing time, too</b><br /><br />Is ignorance really bliss ?grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-72468419321939107222019-08-12T09:26:53.755-04:002019-08-12T09:26:53.755-04:00Perhaps we can ask Sharon Tate Polanski and her un...Perhaps we can ask Sharon Tate Polanski and her unborn son if Leslie should be paroled and enjoy the liberties that she unilaterally revoked from them.<br /><br />Oh, wait: You mean Sharon's not around to expound? I guess she and her unborn son are still doing time, too.<br /><br />If LVH were truly contrite, she would do her time and not even ask to be released. Ever.The Brokerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03337248430578719726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-69690808381392773162018-03-15T13:47:20.979-04:002018-03-15T13:47:20.979-04:00Do you know where I can get this book?Do you know where I can get this book?Burdenedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14689458902165552042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-8731413005175213952016-08-01T05:12:08.618-04:002016-08-01T05:12:08.618-04:00I'm planning on spending the 50th anniversary ...I'm planning on spending the 50th anniversary in Los Angeles and hopefully will be watching Robert's 5 hour documentary on one of those days.beaudershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14223387983663922713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-66543219595210709802016-07-31T14:11:58.474-04:002016-07-31T14:11:58.474-04:00I am currently listening to Karlene Faith's bo...I am currently listening to Karlene Faith's book on audio and Saint's review of it is dead on IMO. ( I did get it at a discount luckily!) it's interesting in that it has a few minor details I had never heard of before but otherwise the author seems to spend about eighty percent of her time making excuses for VanHouten's involvement in the crime. She blames everyone from Bugliosi (sp) to Manson and yes men in general. I do still have about twenty percent or so of the book left to listen to but I don't think I'm going to change my mind about Ms. Faith's biased ( to me anyway) viewpoint. <br /><br />Excellent review and writing Saint. Thank you!BluMoon36https://www.blogger.com/profile/08332269268533986337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-55575407445064570832016-07-31T10:17:34.426-04:002016-07-31T10:17:34.426-04:00Dear SAINT: I lost my grandfather when I was 15 y...Dear SAINT: I lost my grandfather when I was 15 years old and HE was the greatest man I ever knew - even to this day - and HE was an elder in the Beverly Hills chapter of the Shrinners. I was raised from birth in HIS house until my father returned from WW II. THUS WAR directed my formative years into my grandfather's care.<br /><br />Strange how a missing father (though replaced by a better man) can have such a drastic effect on a young man's life. BUT I successfully made it to adulthood and then the Vietnam WAR turned MY world all upside down AGAIN.<br /><br />I'm sorry I don't have ANY feelings for Sharon, Abigail, Voicket, Jay, Leno, Rosemary, Bernard, Gary, Shorty, etc. BUT I do have a host of names I do care for - THEY are all posted on a WALL.<br /><br />It wasn't until decades later, that I would realize that I was the luckiest man alive to have been created by the most wonderful man (my father) I would ever know.<br /><br />BUT it's still like: "War, what is it good for ?"<br /><br />YOU have to admit the "comment" about ME and a video camera is sure relevant today. Just look at all those videos being made concerning Cops, Criminals, Victims and the TRUTH.<br /><br /><br />Robert Hendricksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02880909248364077567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-9662546905551978232016-07-31T09:37:01.452-04:002016-07-31T09:37:01.452-04:00justice_4_all2010 said...
And what about punishm... justice_4_all2010 said...<br /><br /><br /><b>And what about punishment for ones crimes ? does that not matter any more ?</b><br /><br />That would be a stellar point if we were 5, 10, even 25 years into her incarceration. We're not. We're at close to half a century. You make it sound like she only got convicted yesterday.<br /><br /> ColScott said...<br /><br /><b>knowing what happened at CIELO she ASKED (some sources sound like begging) to come the next night. This gives credence to the copycat motive theory</b><br /><br />Among other reasons, I think that it takes away credence from the copycat. When Leslie spoke with Marvin Part, she fessed up to murder. She implicated Charlie, Tex and Pat. She wasn't by this point playing her Mike McGann games. The game was up. Yet nowhere did she mention copycat murders to free Bobby Beausoleil. Instead, she talks revolution, the White album and Helter Skelter. She had nothing to lose by talking about freeing Bobby. But she didn't. Not a bean. <br />Susan Atkins was in exactly the same scenario. And not a bean about freeing Bobby. She fessed up to Graham, Howard, the grand jury, Nancy Jordon, Caruso, Caballero and Bugliosi. She landed everyone in the shit. But not a word about freeing Bobby.<br />The first occasion I'm aware that the actual "free Bobby" bit comes up is actually from Aaron Stovitz in that Rolling Stone interview of March 1970 {though it came out in June of that year} that got his wrists slapped.<br />But I find it strange that Leslie says nothing about it then when she tries to align herself to it during the penalty phase, she implicates herself in the Hinman murder in which the world and their dog all know she wasn't at and had nothing to do with.<br /><br /><br /> Zelda Formaldehyde said...<br /><br /><b>Nothing about Leslie's lifestyle and actions from 1968-1971 are defensible. Nothing. She was an irresponsible, gullible, angry kid. Now take a close look, is she any of those things now?</b><br /><br />When one is talking about close to half a century later, this really is the bottom line. Is she any of those things <i>now</i> ? What ultimately is parole about ? grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-27162729580673376192016-07-30T19:55:12.951-04:002016-07-30T19:55:12.951-04:00St Circumstance said...
She was the sole person w...St Circumstance said...<br /><br /><b>She was the sole person who asked to be involved. Every person Save Leslie can say Charlie - NOT HER!!!!!!!!!- Sorry Karlene</b><br /><br />But even that is not without context. Crowe, Hinman and Cielo being the major game changers. Van H didn't ask to be involved out of the blue at a point when nothing had happened.<br /><br /><b>are we back to saying it really wasn't her fault?</b><br /><br />Has she said that in the last 25 years ?<br />It seems that you need everything to be black and white, straight down the line and free of all nuances where these murders are concerned but that just doesn't wash. It would more likely wash if the copycat could be shown to be the only motive, or if revenge for the rape of Linda or the settling of a score for the burning of $1000 on an MDA deal could be shown to be the reason. In fact if HS had absolutely nothing to do with anything it would be pretty simple. "A group of friends decided to take the law into their own hands."<br />And we wouldn't be talking about it 50 years on.<br />But it's not straight down the line. It's shrouded in dark cloaks and robes of mystery and there are multiple nuances. It's not like being a Mafia hitman. Even when Charlie speaks lucidly, he lays strange patterns all over the mindscape.<br />If the reason she was convicted is accurate, then the notion that these murders wouldn't have happened without Charlie <i>and</i> LVH being totally responsible for her actions.......are both true.<br /><br /><b>See this is why Faiths book is shit as well as why Leslie will never get out.<br />Plain and simple.<br />You simply cannot continue to try and tell smart people you understand your personal responsibility, but that you weren't personally responsible</b><br /><br />But neither are saying that. <br />She doesn't count her Mum as being responsible for the murders. But her Mum forcing her to have an abortion played a role in the evolution of the mindset she went on to adopt. Is she making excuses by pointing this out.....or is she trying to trace the ingredients that helped bring her to where she ended up ~ the very thing the guv'nor says she's not doing ?<br />Bugliosi made it clear in his closing argument that HS was <i>not</i> the women's motive. So even he, her original prosecutor, recognized that there was an element of them being influenced. So why was it OK for him to recognize it and gain convictions on it.....but not her to recognize it and present it as part explanation ?<br />Besides which, over the years, it's the parole boards that have been asking all of these questions and bringing out what she has needed to recognize and be aware of. So when you say she'll never get out, bear in mind that the parole board that knocked her back 19 times over 37 or so years <i>have</i> said they feel she's suitable for release.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-66036218469977327712016-07-30T19:50:43.912-04:002016-07-30T19:50:43.912-04:00Dear Mr. SAINT: I love you, respect you and admire...Dear Mr. SAINT: I love you, respect you and admire your persistence also, BUT may I suggest Pabst Blue Ribbon instead of Coors (too many harmful chemicals included in Coors).<br /><br />I thought ALL of Leslie's CRIMES were rooted in a one night "Burglary" gone wrong.<br /><br />YES, it was "extraordinarily brutal", BUT as the Prosecutor CLAIMED and CHARGED her - it was ONLY a "burglary." Now, if the "establishment" is saying that because the "robbery" was to obtain military grade weapons in order to prevail in the execution of a Black and White race WAR - that's a whole different ball game. I mean that's like "Invasion of the Body Snatchers." Are the aliens just "stealing bodies" cause they are hungry or are THEY intending to take over the world. Cause that's NOT unlike the Communists trying to take over the world and thank God for sending Lyndon Johnson down to earth to STOP them.<br /><br />AND most of the controversy is based on the premise that Charlie Manson "brainwashed" the kids to kill, BUT that they would have killed anyway - without him.<br /><br />THEN, to make it even more confusing you got some "marble loser" suggesting that IF Lyndon Johnson hadn't gone off the deep end, we might never even have heard of a Manson Family.<br /><br />NOW, we have a drastic situation where the Communist Body Snatchers have already taken over half of America and convinced the Snatchees THEY have only been converted to Socialism.<br /><br />So the only thing we know for sure is "snatchers" can be good or bad or both.<br /><br />Robert Hendricksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02880909248364077567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-87374225082447595512016-07-30T19:27:06.633-04:002016-07-30T19:27:06.633-04:00 I like them French fried potaters. I like them French fried potaters.Fiddy 8https://www.blogger.com/profile/13633505037758578259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-10800777526190110822016-07-30T19:13:39.719-04:002016-07-30T19:13:39.719-04:00St Circumstance said...
Yeah but I made them bett... St Circumstance said...<br /><br /><b>Yeah but I made them better</b><br /><br />That may be so. But the essential difference is that Karlene Faith argues from a basic position of equality under the law. And in order to do that, she had to make comparisons between how male cons are seen and how that differs from female cons and the different kinds of treatment that are meted out to both for the same offences. Then she had to draw parallels between the two women that were on the death row {that hadn't yet been built} when Van H, Pat & Susan got there and how both were both released within 10 years of being sentenced to death. Then she had to focus on one of the central reasons for their convictions, namely, being under Charlie's domination/influence. That was a central plank of Bugliosi's case. And she rightly poses the question that if they only did what they did because they were under his aegis, so to speak, and that the reasons were Charlie's and Charlie's alone {and in his closing argument, Bugliosi says HS was Manson's motive, not the women's}, then there may well be something of a contradiction afoot and if, as part of one's coming back to their senses the female defendants recognize this, then it isn't them laying out the blame when they subsequently spell this out. It doesn't spare you any responsibility for what you did but it puts everything into context.<br />Personally I believe in paradoxes so I don't have a problem with all of that but Faith's book takes each aspect of the saga where LVH is concerned and tries to explain their role. <br />But she doesn't duck Leslie's culpability, evidenced by statements like "Leslie is not looking for anyone to serve as her apologist....never forgetting her part in a crime she remembers all too well" <br /><br /><b>maybe others will check it out. I bet a case of Coors lights more people think it's Shiite than like it</b> <br /><br />I wouldn't argue with you on that. I never know what various contributors will think of a book and I have had a tendency to dig books that are generally trashed like Zamora's "Trial by your peers" and Tex's "Will you die for me ?" or ignored like Clara Livsey's "The Manson women" and George Bishop's "Witness to evil" or forgotten like "Crucified ~ the railroading of Charles Manson" and John Gilmour's "The garbage people." Even George's and Robert's books, which I think are both superb, it is rare that I ever come across someone saying that they really like them and Bugliosi & Gentry's tome, well, I think it's a great book but let's face it, you can almost count on one buttcheek the number of people, even in anonymous cyberspace, that will admit to that.<br />So you're probably closer to being correct than wrong. But if by any chance you're not, make mine a Cobra zero !grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-28064458884524365512016-07-30T18:48:41.607-04:002016-07-30T18:48:41.607-04:00Organizations the likes of the Elks, Shriners, and...Organizations the likes of the Elks, Shriners, and Doctors without Borders, reinforces my viewpoint of "man" being inherently good.<br /><br />For these collectives of independent thinkers assemble to have fun, and without profit motive, or government mandate, manage to dispense services, to those in need of swift, and nimble relief.<br /><br />The Elks have another acronym prominently displayed at their clubhouses: BPOE.<br /><br />I'm told that stands for - Best People On Earth. I don't disagree.Farflunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17723130825592879022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-6864842462132521852016-07-30T17:58:36.170-04:002016-07-30T17:58:36.170-04:00And Mr. H:
My father was a career cop. 27 years. ...And Mr. H:<br /><br />My father was a career cop. 27 years. In that time he helped form something you may have heard of, or maybe not, P.A.L. <br /><br />He was a life long member of the Elks Club. Every time you went into an ELKS lodge there was a banner with the letters YHJCTFCTTCCF... ever first time person asked what that meant and was told to put a quarter into a bucket for the answer...<br /><br />You<br />Have<br />Just<br />Contributed<br />Twenty<br />Five<br />Cents<br />To <br />The Crippled<br />Children's<br />Fund<br /><br />In the 15 years I grew up with him- 4 people were taken off the streets and brought into my house to live with me.<br /><br /><br />My Father Died in 1999 and in a small NJ town with a Police Department of less than 30 people-<br /><br />over two days- more than two thousand people showed up to pay respect.<br /><br />Painting a pic of all authorities being out to get you is as unfair as painting all Hippy's like the Manson's, or generalizing any group of people...<br /><br />I love you and respect you Sir- but you send a very unfair message and wont answer any specific questions about why you have the views you do..<br /><br />I have been taught to trust the devil you know more than the devil you don't. <br /><br /><br />Lucky you for having a video camera around at the precise time some maniacs were running loose. If you had more than that to offer...<br /><br /><br />You would have by now...<br /><br />the rest is just mashed potatoes...<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10291550902325920904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-12234251617127298552016-07-30T16:53:48.922-04:002016-07-30T16:53:48.922-04:00Maybe I am too emotional about this for some of yo...Maybe I am too emotional about this for some of you and that is ok..<br /><br />But she helped kill people. She cared so little she still had an appetite when she was through. She made a joke about it afterwards and mocked the grieving families.<br /><br />She was the sole person who asked to be involved. Every person Save Leslie can say Charlie - NOT HER!!!!!!!!!- Sorry Karlene<br /><br />She went to jail and then decided that at a certain time she would get out, and when that did not happen - she stopped caring about anything else except what was fair and right for her...<br /><br /><br /><br />None of these murdering assholes care about anything but themselves at this point and why should they. they are finally getting it:<br /><br />THIS IS WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO LOOSE YOUR LIFE. SAD HUH???????Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10291550902325920904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-8080805544735413302016-07-30T15:11:30.633-04:002016-07-30T15:11:30.633-04:00See this is why Faiths book is shit as well as why...See this is why Faiths book is shit as well as why Leslie will never get out. <br /><br />Plain and simple. <br /><br />You simply cannot continue to try and tell smart people you understand your personal responsibility, but that you weren't personally responsible. Faith and LULU's lawyers keep asking you to believe that she understands how bad what she did was- but it wasn't her fault she did it. Wrong!!<br /><br />Even when Leslie gives her obligatory statement where she takes personal responsibility- it sounds hollow as they are weighing what it is she did versus how hard she is trying to move past it...<br /><br /><br />Leslie's record and the systems guidelines make it hard to keep her in. Thank god- her attitude, actions, and those of her supporters make it hard to let her out.<br /><br /><br />Here is the final statement I will make on this subject:<br /><br />I get that it is a catch 22. I know that what I am really saying between the line is not fair. But I also tried to explain why Fair shouldn't really matter in this case. Their is only one way for Leslie Van Houten to Show the victims of her family that she is truly understanding of what she has done...<br /><br />Stay in prison until someone tells you otherwise or until you are dead.<br /><br />Shitty place to be, but again- you asked to go there. YOU ASKED. You chose to participate and you chose to joke about it and you chose all of those things while giving no choice to your victim.<br /><br />You do not get to tell anyone else when it is time for you go home. The longer it takes you to understand that- the more you run out of what time you have left<br /><br /><br />-Your Favorite SaintAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10291550902325920904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-18333100065646776432016-07-30T14:26:33.135-04:002016-07-30T14:26:33.135-04:00"her initial 7-years-to-life prison sentence...."her initial 7-years-to-life prison sentence."<br /><br /><br />Is that was she was sentenced? lol<br /><br /><br /><br />"Pfeiffer also wants the Los Angeles court to compel prosecutors to turn over taped interviews with another former cult member that the lawyer believes will show how Manson controlled his followers."<br /><br /><br />are we back to saying git really wasn't her fault?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10291550902325920904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-24234608399474518802016-07-30T14:24:22.465-04:002016-07-30T14:24:22.465-04:00LA Times :
LOS ANGELES – A lawyer for a Charles...LA Times :<br /><br /><br />LOS ANGELES – A lawyer for a Charles Manson follower who was convicted in the 1969 murders of a California couple said Thursday he will ask a court to overturn Gov. Jerry Brown's decision to deny her parole.<br /><br />Attorney Rich Pfeiffer said he will file a petition Friday seeking the release of 66-year-old Leslie Van Houten after a parole board found she posed no threat to society.<br /><br />The board had recommended her release but Brown said last week that Van Houten had committed "extraordinarily brutal crimes" and failed to explain her transformation from an upstanding teen to a killer.<br /><br />Pfeiffer says denying her release solely because of the heinousness of the murders of Leno and Rosemary La Bianca by members of the "Manson family" would effectively be changing her initial 7-years-to-life prison sentence.<br /><br />Pfeiffer also wants the Los Angeles court to compel prosecutors to turn over taped interviews with another former cult member that the lawyer believes will show how Manson controlled his followers.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10291550902325920904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-77659113781668391112016-07-30T12:46:00.933-04:002016-07-30T12:46:00.933-04:00Penny, yes we do. Unemployment insurance though is...Penny, yes we do. Unemployment insurance though isn't federal, it's handled state by state. Your benefits are limited and determined by your income level and duration of employment.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-16320039915185954712016-07-30T11:51:08.403-04:002016-07-30T11:51:08.403-04:00This morning I put a plate of food on the kitchen ...This morning I put a plate of food on the kitchen floor for the cat (who gets up when I do).<br /><br />A short time later, my dog got up and tried to lick the plate, but nothing was left, so he pissed on the plate.<br /><br />At a construction site the workers will build a magnificent structure and leave all THEIR plastic water bottles and other food trash strewn about the grounds.<br /><br />A phycho-analyst once told me about a man who would never flush the toilet.<br /><br />ALL of these creatures were/are leaving THEIR "mark." AND that is what "life" is all about -<br />leaving one's MARK. An artist does it, a builder does it, a filmmaker does it and of course, that is WHY Charles Manson did it. Because without those "marks" nobody else will be able to find THEIR way through life's dangerous journey.<br /><br />Robert Hendricksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02880909248364077567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-37069197875576383002016-07-30T09:17:26.551-04:002016-07-30T09:17:26.551-04:00We have unemployment compensation but I don't ...We have unemployment compensation but I don't know that she qualifies. She might qualify for a welfare check and food stamps.<br />I was thinking how many people would be alive today if Charlie had done what she did when he got out of prison.orwhuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17724866498802431665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-55752039544198975992016-07-30T05:02:54.888-04:002016-07-30T05:02:54.888-04:00Thats sad really.....ignorant question time...does...Thats sad really.....ignorant question time...does the US have unemployment benefits ?..aka tbe dole?Penny lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10401896105440499937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-7891968048670894632016-07-30T03:45:44.010-04:002016-07-30T03:45:44.010-04:00Charlie could have learned something from this wom...Charlie could have learned something from this woman.<br />https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-woman-robbed-wyoming-bank-return-prison-224157972.htmlorwhuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17724866498802431665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-16671908159641519052016-07-29T23:07:08.035-04:002016-07-29T23:07:08.035-04:00lol no chance... since I was 16 years old- Loyalty...lol no chance... since I was 16 years old- Loyalty ;)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10291550902325920904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-16390889290392189322016-07-29T21:56:06.369-04:002016-07-29T21:56:06.369-04:00Before I buy this book could we upgrade the beer b...Before I buy this book could we upgrade the beer bet? Mirror Pond IPA? or at least PBR?Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551377673977145628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-5545270356266879792016-07-29T18:49:55.996-04:002016-07-29T18:49:55.996-04:00Yeah but I made them better lol
Grim I respect if...Yeah but I made them better lol<br /><br />Grim I respect if you dug it. I did not. Now maybe others will check it out. I bet a case of Coors lights more people think it's Shiite than like it. But who knows lol. I have been wrong before Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10291550902325920904noreply@blogger.com