tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post6077695109424228615..comments2024-03-28T23:53:16.262-04:00Comments on The Manson Family Blog: Searching For God in the Sixties - Dr. Dave Williams Part 4 - The Power of an Empty HeadMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-8145380354151028572014-12-08T04:14:38.558-05:002014-12-08T04:14:38.558-05:00On the subject of Blake, most people assume entire...On the subject of Blake, most people assume entirely wrongly that the famous image 'Ancient of Days' is Blake's conception of God as creator, wielding his mighty compasses, whereas in fact it's his nightmare vision of Urizen, bound and constrained by the horror of the ratio and the rational. <br /><br />Jesus, on the other hand, Blake often referred to as 'the Imagination'.<br /><br />Blake was an enthusiast for the revolution in France, even after the carnage had begun, and enjoyed warning his fellow Londoners that Napoleon was coming to cut England's throat. I wonder what he might have made of a figure like Manson.<br /><br />I like to think he would have laughed, seen through him in seconds, and walked away. But that would be a rational thing to do, and for Blake, too, no sense made sense.MHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765688604319832245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-75064639119039385502014-12-08T03:59:45.560-05:002014-12-08T03:59:45.560-05:00Dr Dave, I've known several Quakers here in Lo...Dr Dave, I've known several Quakers here in London. Let's just say that somewhere along the line the Quaker vocabulary has been castrated - because THAT was magnificent.MHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765688604319832245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-77199054095913493432014-12-08T00:37:19.737-05:002014-12-08T00:37:19.737-05:00Or, perhaps, Neil Young: "Red means run, son,...Or, perhaps, Neil Young: "Red means run, son, numbers add up to nuthin".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-90724028697058477452014-12-07T18:06:04.969-05:002014-12-07T18:06:04.969-05:00Those who follow the head are ever at war with tho...Those who follow the head are ever at war with those who believe in the heart, but both head and heart are tricksters, so we bounce back and forth between them, praying for another choice. Blake called the Devil "Urizen," which is pronounced "Your reason." Joseph Campbell, who advised George Lucas, said that Darth Vader's Dark Side was the "intellectual side." I like the cursing of one antinomian Quaker named Fisher at the more logical believers of his day: "Thou hedge hog and grinning dog; thou bastard that tumbled out of the mouth of the babalonish baw;thou mole; thou tinker; thou lizard; thou bell of no metal but the tone of a kettle; thou wheelbarrow; thou whirligig; thou whirlpool; O thou firebrand, thou adder and scorpion; thou louse; thou cow dung; thou moon-calf; thou ragged tatterdemalion; thou Judas; thou livest in philosophy and logic which are of the Devil."<br />-from Cotton Mather's "Magnalia"<br />Dr Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10163590240706535188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-44761123337477314802014-12-06T08:51:40.709-05:002014-12-06T08:51:40.709-05:00Let see, we've gone from "lack of communi...Let see, we've gone from "lack of communication" to "the word" to "the truth" to "beliefs" and now to "symbols."<br /><br />WOW, how did we overlook symbols ? The "Swastika," the "Cross," the "Star," the "bulls-eye," the "dove," the "heart," the "hangman's noose" "RIP." Is there really a need for language - when we have so many symbols - with each speaking volumes ? AND "symbolism" can take many forms. Yesterday's news item that the Vatican FOUND hundreds of millions of previously unaccounted for dollars, should provide even the illiterate with a complete understanding of just what the Catholic Church really is.<br /><br />I once mentioned to Bruce Davis that the only necessary "word" was HELP and he responded with: " Well, if you ever need to say HELP, somebody isn't listening."<br /><br />Dr. Dave: Is it possible that Voltare and the gang simply put a tremendous mental burden upon the once unenlightened ?<br /><br />Robert Hendricksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02880909248364077567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-39603959848250835952014-12-06T08:04:00.384-05:002014-12-06T08:04:00.384-05:00Crash
Some people shut out so much in order to be...Crash<br /><br />Some people shut out so much in order to be able to sustain their irrational beliefs to the point that their brains actually atrophy in that area. They lose the ability to even consider other options.<br /><br />True. Or they do precisely the same in order to allow-in only ultra-rational beliefs, and worse, they then call those beliefs 'knowledge' or 'science' as though this is a cast-iron guarantee of truth.<br /><br />Which it isn't.<br /><br />There are idiots everywhere Crash. I'm sure you agree. One of them is typing right now! :)MHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765688604319832245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-47040042203902980222014-12-05T18:09:37.360-05:002014-12-05T18:09:37.360-05:00Science and religion are equivalent as "belie...Science and religion are equivalent as "belief systems" only because they both rely on symbols.<br /><br />The big difference is that science allows postivistic participants to understand they are working with exactly consistent symbols that all are free to recreate, while metaphysical symbols are not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-83685563719643168052014-12-05T18:02:02.536-05:002014-12-05T18:02:02.536-05:00Sure the mormons can change a book, why not? they ...Sure the mormons can change a book, why not? they now will all get their own world to rule. <br /> Imagine, we have old religions calling a scientologist or mormon crazy. Yet they believe god wrote a book. I guess they never read their own book. Give it a few thousand years and zenu will be no different than adam and eve. <br /> The actual problem is the belief systems that are not real. Jewish, catholic, hindu or whatever, religious extremists are drunk on false beliefs with no basis in reality. And for it to be believable it has be accepted. And once they accept the irrational and fill the void, the search is over for them.<br /> Scientists such as neuroscientist Andrew Newberg believe its actually brain damage. He has done some interesting studies on it. If the brain center where all that action takes place aint firing, it aint wiring. Some people shut out so much in order to be able to sustain their irrational beliefs to the point that their brains actually atrophy in that area. They lose the ability to even consider other options.<br /> Some call it tunnel vision, myopic or whatever but at that point their beliefs limit them to even understand anything else. They kinda lock themselves into it and close off. <br /> The moment people start to question beliefs, they have thoughts, they start to search for answers, they realise the fallacy of the beliefs that were put on them, then they wake up. Everyone is locked in old thoughts with beliefs that are total illusion. Walking dead people.<br /> And like sandy said "everyone is locked in the fear of death, and thats whats holding things up"<br /> <br /> A true religious teacher will not pass on beliefs to a student. Anyone can do that. A real spiritual teacher will break down the beliefs that are already there, that have already been put on the person, so the person is free to experience their own search and journey..crashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00624403521546828497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-31697532321649160362014-12-05T17:01:55.847-05:002014-12-05T17:01:55.847-05:00Crash:
Instead of not knowing something, we fill ...Crash:<br /><br /><i>Instead of not knowing something, we fill in the blanks with theories, that turn into beliefs over generations. Its easier than facing the unknown.</i> <br /><br />Easier? Not if you're doing it right. Because you're still facing the unknown. If, for example, you're a Christian, you have a God who is man like you, who dies an agonising death, and goes into that darkness wailing 'my God, my God, why have you abandoned me?' You think that sounds like a system of easy answers? You think 'be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect' is easy? You think 'forgive us our sins as we forgive others' is easy? Then you've never tried to live it.<br /><br /><i>Like charlie said writing it down was the problem. Now its there and accepted and cant be changed. Who is gonna change the bible? </i><br /><br />I dunno. Mormons?<br /><br /><i>But religion is falling way behind science now. Science always changes as new things are figured out, religion is still clinging to ideas from 2000 years ago.</i><br /><br />And thank goodness for that. If we take away those irrational old ideas, and reverence only what a scientist can measure or gauge, then there is, for example, nothing keeping us from adopting social Darwinism, eugenics, etc etc. I love the way critics of faith feel an obligation to include the word 'clinging' in any discussion of the subject. But yeah, what what could be worse than clinging to ideas that are 2,000 years old! Old ideas are by definition bad, while recent ideas are great! Indeed, ideas just get better and better as we progress through history. That's why the secular twentieth century was an oasis of peace and harmony my friend. <br /><br /><i>The belief system blocks the person from finding truths. Any belief is really just pretending you know something that you dont. But it prevents you from searching further.</i><br /><br />Epistemology is not black and white. Your belief that we can truly 'know' what we think we're sure we know is a belief system like any other. Those who 'cling' too closely to the words of scientists are adopting a belief system also, taking the word of someone who, though they wear white rather than black, is to the true believer a priest nonetheless.<br /><br />I admire scientists enormously, I genuinely do. But I wouldn't want scientists let out of their labs to rule over us any more than I would want priests to do so.<br /><br />Because any human knows that the most important things cannot be tangibly detected, measured, or quantified.MHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765688604319832245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-45746955218650391492014-12-05T16:54:15.760-05:002014-12-05T16:54:15.760-05:00My ringtone for the last 5 years has been the actu...My ringtone for the last 5 years has been the actual song recording of "Break on Through".<br /><br />So is you're ever in line at Bed Bath and Beyond, and you suddenly hear Jim Morrison, that's just my phone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-75244635168329803462014-12-05T16:12:32.726-05:002014-12-05T16:12:32.726-05:00 Could be beliefs are the problem. Beliefs are wha... Could be beliefs are the problem. Beliefs are what stands in the way of truth. <br /> Instead of not knowing something, we fill in the blanks with theories, that turn into beliefs over generations. Its easier than facing the unknown. <br /> Like charlie said writing it down was the problem. Now its there and accepted and cant be changed. Who is gonna change the bible?<br /> But religion is falling way behind science now. Science always changes as new things are figured out, religion is still clinging to ideas from 2000 years ago.<br /> The belief system blocks the person from finding truths. Any belief is really just pretending you know something that you dont. But it prevents you from searching further.<br /> crashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00624403521546828497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-86042869995234074772014-12-05T15:18:10.220-05:002014-12-05T15:18:10.220-05:00There seems to be some sort of innate sense in mos...There seems to be some sort of innate sense in most humans that where and how we live is not quite right and that "we have to get ourselves back to the garden." Freud said this was a memory of the serenity of the womb. Maybe so and we only give it the veneer of a search for "truth." But Manson, like the makers of "The Matrix" and much of our literature since the Children of Israel left Egypt gave that search its more profound meaning. Clem said his was "a voice from the infinite" largely because he spoke to this need to break on through to the other side and get back to the garden. If not, as he told his parole board, "You're gonna win your reality," the illusions that the straight world believes in.Dr Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10163590240706535188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-72271843643183705512014-12-05T14:36:07.195-05:002014-12-05T14:36:07.195-05:00Weird how things work out sometimes. Thinking of O...Weird how things work out sometimes. Thinking of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest(the movie, havent read the book)<br /> Mcmurphy(nicholson) gets sent for a 90 day evaluation for mental issues thinking it will be a cakewalk. He ends up fighting the system and the system eats him up taking his freedom and his brain..<br /> Two years later jack nicholsons house is used by roman polanski for a photo shoot/sexual assault. The sentence is a 90 day psychological evaluation that gives polanski the clean bill of mental health. Thats not good enough for the judge, but he cant fry romans brain so instead he will take his freedom. Roman runs, to keep his freedom and his brain..<br /> crashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00624403521546828497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-12820003269648789982014-12-05T09:25:05.112-05:002014-12-05T09:25:05.112-05:00Recently Dr. Dave I have been exploring the idea t...Recently Dr. Dave I have been exploring the idea that 50,000 years ago some Africans set out across the forbidden land in search of something. Most scholars seem to think they were forced to find more hospitable territory for better living conditions. BUT now YOU have made me think - maybe they were actually in search of GOD and or the TRUTH.<br /><br />Of course, modern day white historians could never even imagine that a primitive tribe of Black natives were even capable of thinking about GOD - maybe some kind of truth - but GOD ?<br /><br />IF our ancient Black ancestors did actually set out across the "wilderness" in search of some far-out divine "truth," INSTEAD of just attempting to avoid bad weather conditions, that could alter our entire perception of historic peoples.. BUT because researcher / historians accept $$$ government grants, maybe the whole claim that it was the Africans who are OUR ancestors is just more political propaganda. I guess everything may boil down to: Who are you going to TRUST for the truth ?<br /><br />What do you think about the above and who do you TRUST ?<br /><br />Robert Hendricksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02880909248364077567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-10135504903824233172014-12-04T17:19:27.690-05:002014-12-04T17:19:27.690-05:00When I teach my class on the 60s, we begin with Ke...When I teach my class on the 60s, we begin with Kesey's "Cuckoo's Nest" where the system is known as "the combine" and the heart of the book is the attempt to escape its conditioning and programming. McMurphy opens the window of freedom but only for a moment. When he goes down, the Chief said he could only hold open that window for a minute, then it was up to others to come along and keep the possibility alive. We may not know what "truth" looks like, but at least we know this is not it. Perhaps the romantics are right and the truth is found in the heart of the self, but perhaps the mystics are right who say that outside our socially constructed selves is the void, the wilderness that must be crossed in the hope that some Canaan might be realized on the other side. The Beats of the 50s howled against Moloch, the system, but had no hope that an alternative was available, The hippies of the 60s, in contrast, hoped that a truth could be found outside of the system and thus headed out on that expedition for the Golden Fleece, only to find themselves a sham and the light at the end of the tunnel,the gleam in Manson's eye. So we go back and forth between hope and despair like boats beating into the wind, maybe making slow progress.Dr Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10163590240706535188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-73709184320976041452014-12-04T13:47:08.032-05:002014-12-04T13:47:08.032-05:00Dr. Dave; Please tell me if I got this right. The...Dr. Dave; Please tell me if I got this right. The "structure" (church and state) have a well crafted "power / control" system by which IT is able to feast off the misfortune and lack of awareness that drips off the uninformed.<br /><br />In order for this "system" to work, a sufficient amount of "police OFFICERS" must enforce the "rules" set down by the government and church. But IT must also have enough support from the "middlers" (middle of the road folks) in order to survive. AND of course, there MUST be occasional events like RIOTS where common "back-of-the-line" blacks folks are beaten and or killed in order to remind the uninformed just WHO is still in control of their lives.<br /><br />Additionally, news like "the church is infested with priesto molestos" actually helps strengthen the visualization of the church's POWER. IE: "You can't touch us - we're too POWERFUL.<br /><br />As for seeking the TRUTH, what fucking good does that accomplish ? IF the "structure" has the POWER to dictate it's truth upon the uninformed - that is the absolute TRUTH. Someone on this blog just revealed that truth in spades: Charles Manson was "convicted" of first degree murder, but HE was not even present at the Tate Massacre. "Conspiracy to commit murder" from afar - fits fine because "conspiracy" is such a broad term in law. BUT "first degree murder" via "commanders" like LBJ and NIXON would make THEM "serial murders."<br /><br />Because it is the government's education system and the church's belief system that is put upon each and every person living in these United States, anyone's chance of "finding" the REAL truth rests in going to prison - where the system is DONE with you. Where knowing the TRUTH is meaningless, because there, only "self" matters.<br /><br />Robert Hendricksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02880909248364077567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-65784451554413851292014-12-04T08:38:26.489-05:002014-12-04T08:38:26.489-05:00Fielding Mellish: That's very wise, you know.....<b>Fielding Mellish:</b> <i>That's very wise, you know...? That's, I think, pithy.</i><br /><br /><b>Nancy:</b> <i>It was pithy. It had... great pith.</i><br /><br /><b>Fielding Mellish:</b> <i>Yeth. Pith.</i><br /><br /><br />Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-89095649290458290092014-12-04T04:15:25.621-05:002014-12-04T04:15:25.621-05:00Numbers and letters is right, we got a problem:
...Numbers and letters is right, we got a problem: <br /><br />From Bugliosi's Helter Skelter book at page 558:<br /><br />"The people had obtained the verdicts they had requested against Charles Manson, Patricia Krenwinkel, and Susan Atkins: each had been found guilty of ONE count of conspiracy to commit murder and SEVEN counts of murder in the first degree."<br /><br />What that means is: IF a Police Captain, in the morning briefing says "Now get out there and break some BLACK heads." AND a couple of the cops present actually go out and kill a guy like the recent black guy in New York, they ALL can be guilty of ONE count of conspiracy to commit murder - including the Police Captain - and one count of first degree of murder.<br /><br />Legally, one absent from the crime scene can be convicted of conspiracy to commit murder, but "first degree murder is usually only reserved for those who actually participate in the "physical" act of murder. Maybe there are exceptions for whenever the cops actually capture the DEVIL himself. Like discussed on this particular post: We are a nation of GOD fearing soldiers, always on active duty in a righteous Army.<br /><br />Robert Hendricksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02880909248364077567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-74453448210123046532014-12-04T04:09:46.060-05:002014-12-04T04:09:46.060-05:00So, I googled.
Manson also had a conspiracy count...So, I googled.<br /><br />Manson also had a conspiracy count along with 7 first degee murder counts at TLB trial.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-46953068360427806322014-12-03T23:57:15.524-05:002014-12-03T23:57:15.524-05:00My paraphrasing of Robert Pirsig: "Anthropolo...My paraphrasing of Robert Pirsig: "Anthropologists make up shit as they go along"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-19443518702486507132014-12-03T22:43:25.097-05:002014-12-03T22:43:25.097-05:00On March 29, 1971, the jury completed deliberation...On March 29, 1971, the jury completed deliberations on the penalty phase of the trial. Manson and the three female defendants had shaved their heads for the reading of their verdicts.<br /><br />"We, the jury in the above-entitled action, having found the defendant Charles Manson guilty of murder in the first degree...do now fix the penalty as death."<br /><br />Patricia Krenwinkel responded: "You have just judged yourselves."<br /><br />"Better lock your doors and watch your own kids," Susan Atkins said.<br /><br />On April 19, 1971, Superior Court Judge Charles H. Older pronounced the judgment: "It is my considered judgment that not only is the death penalty appropriate, but it is almost compelled by the circumstances. I must agree with the prosecutor that if this is not a proper case for the death penalty, what should be?"<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-58177234784173267262014-12-03T21:30:58.297-05:002014-12-03T21:30:58.297-05:00Manson never having been present for final acts of...Manson never having been present for final acts of murder that he is convited of is common knowledge, but it is not true that he was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder.<br /><br />It is my understanding that all nine of Manson's convictions are for "murder in the first degree", and none for "conspiracy to commit murder".<br /><br />Conspiracy can be a separate and different charge, and Manson's conviction is unusual in that it is a first degree murder charge as a conspirator. I'd say Bugliosi is very proud of this distinction.<br /><br />Also: that the Shea trial set a new California legal precedence with a death sentence for a first degree murder conviction given to a "not present" conspirator, this combined with no body in evidence.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-9751721884069349562014-12-03T16:20:50.877-05:002014-12-03T16:20:50.877-05:00Dr Dave, I'm indebted to you.
I think a lot o...Dr Dave, I'm indebted to you.<br /><br />I think a lot of this is encapsulated admirably in the achingly poignant movie "Vanishing Point", a homage to an America that probably never has, never could, but always must have existed.<br /><br />We <i>are</i> only human; we cannot reasonably be, in ourselves, a constant negotiation between the spiritual and the socialised, the infinite and the organised, the divine and the material - without going insane.<br /><br />At least, we cannot be constantly <i>aware</i> of being that negotiation. That's a dangerous state to live in every day. That way madness lies.<br /><br />Dr Dave, thanks again. <br /><br /><br />MHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765688604319832245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-13890213587641388302014-12-03T16:06:42.898-05:002014-12-03T16:06:42.898-05:00Matt, you are always pithy and concise, qualities ...Matt, you are always pithy and concise, qualities of which I am hugely jealous!<br /><br />In the end it was all a dream...<br /><br />It was all a <i>dream</i> for a group of silly kids, and that dream meant <i>the end</i> of the adults in the room.MHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765688604319832245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-69158626161593523742014-12-03T15:03:56.341-05:002014-12-03T15:03:56.341-05:00And in the end it was all a dream :)And in the end it was all a dream :)Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.com