tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post7527363003056003778..comments2024-03-27T21:24:06.590-04:00Comments on The Manson Family Blog: Ruby Pearl ReduxMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-42512803949046828012017-08-16T23:15:44.142-04:002017-08-16T23:15:44.142-04:00Panamint Patty. I'm the "jackass" yo...Panamint Patty. I'm the "jackass" you reference in your above 1/14/14 comment. (I'm not even sure how, but my ID name has changed.) As far as your above "illegal medicines" query, some, including myself, consider LSD a medicine. Just like Native American Church (aka "the medicine path") members call peyote "medicine." Or in the same sense that a shaman can be referred to as a medicine man. Chris Tillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13645842550523612266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-91946100777811163022014-01-21T20:04:32.968-05:002014-01-21T20:04:32.968-05:00Hi Patty, Hi Trilby.Hi Patty, Hi Trilby.toocrowdedinthishousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10293639893667938423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-48500640451236321282014-01-16T04:11:29.939-05:002014-01-16T04:11:29.939-05:00Mr. Hendrickson could Bill Vance been charged with...Mr. Hendrickson could Bill Vance been charged with murder as well?beaudershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14223387983663922713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-6773967434162009292014-01-15T04:58:15.916-05:002014-01-15T04:58:15.916-05:00Yes Deb, I've been aware of the Guillory story...Yes Deb, I've been aware of the Guillory story ever since a commentor called "leary" tipped us off about it. As I mentioned on this blog before, in " Inside the MANSON Gang" Squeaky says: that the night before the "raid" Charlie said to her and Gypsy; Oh, we're being raided in the morning."<br /> <br />SO Charlie knew, BUT instead of escaping the raid, HE rolled over and went to sleep.<br /> <br />So here's why I hate this shit: Every time someone makes a comment GOOD or BAD, it sparks my curiosity and I go a'lookin for more info.<br /> <br />Now hear this: The day after the night Hoyt heard "Shea" scream for his life (dubbed by the Court an "ear witness") "Hoyt overheard a conversation between Manson and Danny DeCarlo, in which Manson said: Shorty committed suicide, with a little help from us. And we buried him under some leaves." -- from Appellate Court review.<br /> <br />So the very next day DeCarlo KNEW Shorty was killed by the Family.<br /> <br />Then under Appellate Review - the court states that: "John Swartz testified that he had seen Vance and DeCarlo at the Spahn Ranch in possession of Shea's attache case containing the Colt 45's."<br /> <br />Additionally, "DeCarlo had redeemed Shea's pair of Colt 45's which Shea had pawned with Sam Launer, a Hollywood pawnbroker: DeCarlo had sold the guns to Delma Eugene Baker in Culver City."<br /> <br />ANYONE see the what's going on here? DeCarlo could have been tried for MURDER under California law, BUT he obviously made a TRADE for his TESTIMONY.<br /> <br />Did ANYONE in the MANSON murder cases have NO reason to say whatever the prosecution told them say?<br /><br />Robert Hendricksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02880909248364077567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-57115858952020358132014-01-14T14:12:05.188-05:002014-01-14T14:12:05.188-05:00Other citizens would have included neighbors in Ch...Other citizens would have included neighbors in Chatsworth. To operate their chop shop they needed shop tools. Foolishly, they robbed nearby residential and commercial garages. They also made a lot of noise dismantling VW's and building dunebuggies, not to mention gunfire from their makeshift practice range.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-66403324804521109272014-01-14T13:49:05.563-05:002014-01-14T13:49:05.563-05:00Robert I don't have a problem believing that R...Robert I don't have a problem believing that Ruby did call the sheriff on more than one occasion about Manson and the Family's activities at the ranch. To the best of my knowledge it was Ruby that reported Shorty missing before it was publically known that the Family members had committed the Tate LaBianca murders. I think Ruby would have been low key about the treatment she was receiving from Manson, preferring to go though accepted steps to deal with things but Shorty would have been in Manson's face about it and not necessarily running to law enforcement except perhaps to back up Ruby.<br /><br />Read this account of Preston Guillory's take on the August Spahn Ranch raid. In it he says there were citizen complaints about Manson. I'd bet the rent that Ruby was one of those citizens.<br /><br />This is from an interview that Paul Krassner did with Guillory and Guillory reveals quite a lot!<br /><br />http://www.counterpunch.org/2009/08/10/the-mystery-behind-the-manson-murders/DebShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17093893870315262396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-57371976469147921282014-01-14T11:51:02.129-05:002014-01-14T11:51:02.129-05:00Deb: The Ruby Pearl article about her "callin...Deb: The Ruby Pearl article about her "calling the sheriff" may be worth investigating! <br /><br />BECAUSE: In the offical "Appellate Review." in part the court concludes that: "Barbara Hoyt, a member of the Manson Family, testifed that after his release from jail, Manson, in the presense of various people, said that "Shea" was responsible for the SHERIFF"S raid, that Shea was an ex-policeman, that shea was trying to get the Manson damily kicked off the Spahn Ranch and that Shea was an informant." (RE: page 570 "Death to Pigs"<br /> <br />After doing the research for my book, "Death to Pigs", I find it entirely plausible that Ruby Pearl was the one who triggered the infamous Spahn Ranch Raid which DID net the cops many guns and knives.<br /> <br />So IF, in fact, Ruby Pearl "called the sheriff," the "Shorty kill motive" becomes just another fabricated Prosecutor "theory" not unlike Helter Skelter.<br /> <br />PS: After filming Ruby walking George into the courtroom, (re: MANSON 73) I sat down with them in the courtroom and we talked a bit about the "Days" Ruby was very protective of George and did the talking for him.<br /><br /><br />Robert Hendricksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02880909248364077567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-27265754638541179842014-01-14T11:46:38.886-05:002014-01-14T11:46:38.886-05:00illegal medicines? WTF?illegal medicines? WTF?Patty is Deadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07717777500117142160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-69019714530947089382014-01-14T11:40:38.639-05:002014-01-14T11:40:38.639-05:00Trilby said, "I was one of the many thinking ...Trilby said, "I was one of the many thinking of writing a book, at that time. (Now all I care about is being dedicated to a collaborative effort at finding/exposing the truth."<br /><br />I can't agree with you more. It has to be a collaborative effort or else we will all focus on what the author got wrong, not what they got right.<br /><br />Beauders is a wonderful woman, well connected in the blog world, and when her book comes out she will give credit where credit is due.<br /><br />Then there's guys like this jackass:<br /><br />"summerof1985 said...<br /><br />If the point of this article is to tout possible connections between "the Family" and the Brotherhood of Eternal Love, I respectfully suggest that none of the listed coincidences are particularly significant. While I certainly have no personal knowledge about whether any individuals from the two groups knew each other, just because some of the Brotherhood and "the Family" sold illegal medicines and lived in San Francisco at the same time doesn't add up to much. Furthermore, isn't a more apt definition of "instant karma" 'getting what's coming to you soon after your misdeed,' not 'fugettaboutit.' Finally, terming CMM as "hippie mafia" needlessly (and inaccurately) confuses him with the Brotherhood of Eternal Love, who came to national prominence in the 1972 "Rolling Stone" article "The Strange Case of the Hippie Mafia." Anyway, the Brotherhood is fascinating, especially their late leader John Griggs, to any us interested in countercultural groups of that era."<br /><br />Think outside the box, dude. You sound like a Wikipedia entry! Who is going to buy another Jeff Guinn POS? That kind of storytelling is DEAD.Patty is Deadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07717777500117142160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-43696867582370128172014-01-14T10:27:08.317-05:002014-01-14T10:27:08.317-05:00Suze, I always love your comments!
Along with my n...Suze, I always love your comments!<br />Along with my new AARP membership, I seem to be gifted with many "senior moments". I just remembered reading Beauder's comment that had the now-deleted location - which I now can't remember!!<br />Anyway, just read a little about Grants Pass, having never visited there. Apparently known for its arts market. Perhaps that was the Nancy spotting - wasn't she selling ceramics at one point in time?Trilbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12310843050495075993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-14080212646984897652014-01-14T09:23:46.160-05:002014-01-14T09:23:46.160-05:00I agree, Trilby. Seeing "Gypsy" suck up ...I agree, Trilby. Seeing "Gypsy" suck up to Bugliosi a few years ago made me want to hurl. She's now firmly in the "blame Charlie" camp. My gut tells me though that Manson didn't share important info with her. I think there were only 2-3 of the girls that he trusted enough: Squeaky, Nancy and MAYBE Sandy.Suzehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17042563411146539890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-35065443584259501322014-01-14T09:16:28.143-05:002014-01-14T09:16:28.143-05:00Sandy's? ;) :) :)
Yes, I'm incorrigible....Sandy's? ;) :) :)<br />Yes, I'm incorrigible.<br /><br />As for all the Spahners who have gone on with their lives, I truly send positive thoughts and well-wishes to all of them. Would be fascinated to hear any of their reminisces or insights, but they deserve their privacy. <br />Vern Plumlee I'm on the fence about. I wish he could be convinced to talk. Equally certain he won't. <br />However, when it comes to people I believe are flat-out fu**ing liars and obstructionists - first and foremost on the "outside" "Gypsy" & Nancy - well, game on is all I can say. :( :( :( :( :(Trilbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12310843050495075993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-56534613090966182862014-01-14T08:46:22.704-05:002014-01-14T08:46:22.704-05:00beauders, I'm really sorry but I had to delete...beauders, I'm really sorry but I had to delete a comment of yours as it mentioned someone's current whereabouts. I don't want to risk violating any terms of service rules...Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-67121378040641993482014-01-14T07:53:06.344-05:002014-01-14T07:53:06.344-05:00BTW, Beauders, I enjoy your posts and look forward...BTW, Beauders, I enjoy your posts and look forward to reading your book!Trilbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12310843050495075993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-2701157609617836962014-01-14T07:50:52.228-05:002014-01-14T07:50:52.228-05:00I spent time last night trying to remember exactly...I spent time last night trying to remember exactly when I was told she was in Grants Pass, but couldn't. So I'll tell the story of the circumstances around it, because it's a little oo-ee-oo (& funny, if you have an overdeveloped and warped sense of humor, like me.). I think it had to be the late 90s - early 00s (around the time I thought Ms. P-D-M was living in N. Cal.). I was speaking to someone who had ongoing research knowledge as to "Family" updates. I was one of the many thinking of writing a book, at that time. (Now all I care about is being dedicated to a collaborative effort at finding/exposing the truth. Back then, I think there were others alive who could have been brought to justice. Although I think there's still one alive who could at least be prosecuted for Gaul-Sharp. But I digress...). So I had ordered a copy of the original "Manson File" off of Amazon. It had just arrived, & I had told my friend it had been sent from Grants Pass. That's when they said Nancy had been placed there, & we were laughing & joking about her making some extra money selling her Manson books on Amazon (in bad taste, I know, but I remember we came up with some outrageous one-liners.). I've always had a feeling there was some kind of underground-criminal-railway connection with Oregon/The Family/bikers/AB, etc. I've been reading the BEL book by Tendler/May and my ears went up... <br />The deal with the circumstances and timing around Shorty's death bug me as much as TLB. I'm continually aggravated by all the conflicting stories and narratives. It's headache-hell trying to confirm the simplest of things in the timeline. An example: Greg King wrote that on Th 8-7-69 Sharon attended a screening of "Marcus Welby M.D." starring Robert Lipton at Universal. Amos, Sebring's houseman, gave a statement placing ST-P, JS, AF & VF at Easton Drive for dinner and TV on Thursday night. This simple discrepancy bugs the hell out of me. This case is a fact-checker's nightmare! (Unless you have Deb's skills. I do NOT. :)<br />Anyhow, I sure would like to have spent time with Ruby. I love the story of how she "talked back" to Manson. I think she might have been okay talking about her memories, & she had a heck of a colorful, fascinating life. She could have told us more about Shorty, fleshed him out, so to speak. In the same way I pay most attention to casting and set design when watching a movie or TV show; I care most about filling in the details behind the murders - the people and places. I stubbornly believe in that saying: "God is in the details". <br />Matt, nagging again, but there's one person alive who's GOT TO BE interviewed before it's too late and I remain firmly convinced that, (as busy as you are), you're the one to do it!!!Trilbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12310843050495075993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-74946337966138835532014-01-13T19:32:48.128-05:002014-01-13T19:32:48.128-05:00And I'll bet she was a real straight shooter. ...And I'll bet she was a real straight shooter. Damn...Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-87335356177153827932014-01-13T19:00:55.621-05:002014-01-13T19:00:55.621-05:00... And is anyone else feeling frustrated that Rub...... And is anyone else feeling frustrated that Ruby P. was alive until a few <br />years ago, & could have been interviewed? I had always assumed she had long passed over. I would have liked to ask her several things, and get her take on Barbara Hoyt's version of Shorty's murder. While I don't particularly trust Hoyt's version; it's bothered me that Ruby's statement of her last sighting of Shorty - at night, being chased by Davis, etc. towards the creek - could tend tp support Hoyt's claim of hearing him screaming (murdered) at night down by the creek.Trilbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12310843050495075993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-4636329134356967112014-01-13T18:50:40.364-05:002014-01-13T18:50:40.364-05:00Nancy lived in Grants Pass, also. Maybe Ms. Davis-...Nancy lived in Grants Pass, also. Maybe Ms. Davis-Montfort will confirm for us?... 0-o<br />Deb, you're awesome. Trilbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12310843050495075993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-37006987193679197352014-01-13T18:05:48.333-05:002014-01-13T18:05:48.333-05:00I just got off the phone with someone at the Josep...I just got off the phone with someone at the Josephine County Clerk's office. They do not have a system where you can get them to do research for you but she was able to tell me a couple of things.<br /><br />There was a Warranty Deed filed in Pearl Molinaro's name in 1979 and there was no George Spahn in their records. The clerk suggested that I contact a title company in Grants Pass and hire them to do the research for me.<br /><br />Of course, there is no guarantee that if George Spahn did buy a ranch in Oregon that it was in Josephine County but it seems a logical place to start considering Ruby ended up there. DebShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17093893870315262396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-85569807782834292352014-01-13T17:09:26.794-05:002014-01-13T17:09:26.794-05:00mmmm hmmm...mmmm hmmm...Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-12632517361903434912014-01-13T15:30:24.850-05:002014-01-13T15:30:24.850-05:00Didn't George Spahn get the $ to purchase his ...Didn't George Spahn get the $ to purchase his alleged ranch in Oregon after selling more of Spahn Ranch acreage to Frank Retz? <br /><br />Patty, check your e-mail. (And I also had the same reaction to reading she lived in Grants Pass. Didn't the lovely Ms. Pittman *heavy sarcasm* live there for a time? There's that weirdness with Plumlee and a couple others in Oregon talking about the murders in fall '69... And didn't the BEL have an "interest" in an amphetamine operation in that area? Not to mention the strong biker presence there.).Trilbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12310843050495075993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-73487447292752184412014-01-13T12:00:15.985-05:002014-01-13T12:00:15.985-05:00Patty thinks we have another ooEEoo on our hands.....Patty thinks we have another ooEEoo on our hands...Patty is Deadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07717777500117142160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-67107071308734498042014-01-13T11:57:51.758-05:002014-01-13T11:57:51.758-05:00Both Bugliosi and Sanders claim Spahn bought anoth...Both Bugliosi and Sanders claim Spahn bought another ranch in Grants Pass. Maybe Spahn had an insurance payout/beaudershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14223387983663922713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-11436450160612796442014-01-13T11:37:12.385-05:002014-01-13T11:37:12.385-05:00Beauders, I question George Spahn buying another r...Beauders, I question George Spahn buying another ranch in Oregon. He was completely broke at Spahn, where did he get the money to buy another ranch? Spahn died in Los Angeles in 1974. We do know that Ruby stuck around Los Angeles long enough to testify at Shorty's trial.<br /><br />Recorders office records for Josephine County are not available online so I can't easily look up records but I will contact them and see what I can find out by phone.<br /><br />Ruby's address was 3488 Upper River Rd. Grants Pass. It is a three bedroom two bath home on 1.6 acres and was built in 1976. I don't have any idea how long she lived at that address. The records I can find only go back to 1993 but I will try to find out.DebShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17093893870315262396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-78389577443660234202014-01-13T11:20:17.288-05:002014-01-13T11:20:17.288-05:00Robert, Ruby's obit was in a Minnesota newspap...Robert, Ruby's obit was in a Minnesota newspaper and I assume it was written by one of Ruby's family members. It's a little strange because the sister mentioned in the obit died in 2002, eight years before Ruby. There is no telling what Ruby's family was told about her role in the arrests and they may have believed that it was Ruby who brought the Family down without knowing all the details.DebShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17093893870315262396noreply@blogger.com