tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post10078203664684145..comments2024-03-28T23:53:16.262-04:00Comments on The Manson Family Blog: Tex is Headed to The Best City on Earth!!Matthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-29339336313510326122021-10-28T17:26:29.870-04:002021-10-28T17:26:29.870-04:00Grim I listened to some of your music on spotify, ...Grim I listened to some of your music on spotify, and I think it's quite good. Would I be correct in assuming Your influences are a combination of Pink Floyd and late British psychedelic folk pioneer Kevin Ayers? Those guys come to mind when listening to your music. Keep up the good work.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10341912936545924770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-44382249070718198592021-10-28T04:34:54.080-04:002021-10-28T04:34:54.080-04:00Tragical History Tour said...
Bloody hell
In the... Tragical History Tour said...<br /><br /><b>Bloody hell</b><br /><br />In the context of the conversation, that's almost funny.<br /><br /><b>An entire thread ruined by that Grim idiot</b><br /><br />Well, at least it wasn't ruined by grimtraveller !<br /><br /><b>Why the fuck does this blog let that Sky Daddy blowing moron rewrite War and Peace on every thread?</b><br /><br />I guess, for the same reasons they let you write your bile, while contributing nothing of any substance. Have you ever wondered why no one ever responds to anything you ever have to say ?<br />Most of what you write isn't even worth chucking away in landfill.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-35467932582187957282021-02-02T06:50:43.200-05:002021-02-02T06:50:43.200-05:00Bloody hell.
An entire thread ruined by that Grim...Bloody hell.<br /><br />An entire thread ruined by that Grim idiot.<br /><br />Why the fuck does this blog let that Sky Daddy blowing moron rewrite War and Peace on every thread?<br /><br />For fuck sake, put a word limit on the twat.Tragical History Tourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16419266493227241434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-49221450388131452722017-10-21T20:44:50.033-04:002017-10-21T20:44:50.033-04:00joseph esposito said...
GENDER EQUALITY 'IS&#...joseph esposito said...<br /><br /><b>GENDER EQUALITY 'IS' WRONG! God does not give wo-MEN the same authority as a MAN! Wives are to OBEY their husbands</b><br /><br />This demonstrates what I was saying to David earlier about the NT, where you have 27 documents comprising of 5 narratives, one apocalyptic prophecy {itself containing 7 letters} and 21 letters written to different people in vastly differing situations over many years. Each letter and therefore the contents of those letters is set within a different context. There is some overlap {for example, the letters to Timothy & Titus address the same set of crises} but for every "wives are to obey their husbands" there's a "the husband is not in charge of his own body ~ the wife is." For every "the woman is to remain silent" there is a "whenever you meet, <i>everybody</i> is to bring something ~ a teaching, a song, a prophecy, an interpretation and all for the common good." For every Paul telling the Colossian women to submit to their husbands, there's the same Paul telling the Ephesian husbands and wives to <i>submit to each other</i> because they love Christ.<br />I could go on. Suffice it to say, these and more, tell me that there is a context to everything you read in the NT and the simple reality is certainly most fellow believers I have come across <i>never</i> read in context. So much is read only as command, even when it's clearly not. That's how you end up stating there is no gender equality.<br />You want to know what God says about gender equality ? It's there right at the start of Genesis. God made <i>man</i> the species, in his image. And the way that the image of the creator of the universe is expressed on this earth is via <i>male and female</i>. Not male. Unless there is female, there is no image of God.<br /><br /><br /> <b>They are to dress modest, and are not to draw attention to themselves</b><br /><br />That's right. It doesn't mean they were inferior, rather, that that which made them beautiful was what was inside, not outward, as is said on more than one occasion by more than one writer. Concentrate on being a beautiful person not a person who conforms to the current arbitrary version of beauty.<br /><br /><b>They are not to be in the instructor role, and are not to usurp authority over MEN</b><br /><br />There were female apostles and women with important roles mentioned in Paul's letters. To understand the bit about the instructors, you need to understand what was happening in Ephesus and Crete {which you'll get some insight from if you look at Paul's farewell & warning to the Ephesians in Acts 20}, why Tim & Titus were sent to those places and how it was being dealt with by the time of the letter in Revelation.<br /><br /><b>Jesus said: "I will turn wo-MEN MALE, so they may enter heaven, for all wo-MEN who become MALE, will enter heaven"</b><br /><br />I really hope that's an attempt at some humour !<br /><br /> I didn't want to get into one of these chats, I really didn't. Joseph, if you want to chat further, e-mail through one of the blog admin. I don't mind it being passed on.<br />The irony of all that you've been saying is that much of it has no application to someone in a men's jail !grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-38670795108984404582017-10-21T20:43:46.724-04:002017-10-21T20:43:46.724-04:00joseph esposito said...
'the rules' d...joseph esposito said...<br /><br /> <b>'the rules' do matter, some are for practicality, (Tapeworms in pork)</b><br /><br />No one said the rules didn't matter.<br />And if you look at the reasons God gives the Israelites for not eating pork, it has nothing to do with tapeworms or practical considerations. Cook it properly and there'll be no worms. I've never had tapeworms and I've been eating pork since I grew teeth. And if you feel God <i>doesn't</i> do things for reasons only God can fathom, read Paul's argument in Romans 9. God does some things because God chooses to do them and doesn't tell us.<br /><br /><b>some are personal opinions, (Paul saying he felt MEN should wear their hair short)</b><br /><br />Some of what was taught as Godly command in fact was the opinion of the apostle and quite a bit that came from the apostle as a command from God has been almost routinely ignored.<br /><br /><b>and there 'are' rules that are commands from God through the Apostles</b><br /><br />You'll get no argument from me there. But as an exercise, actually count how many actually are direct or even indirect commands and how much is apostolic advice. Advice you may not feel applies.<br />You may be surprised.<br /><br />grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-59651264631990607282017-10-21T19:29:21.140-04:002017-10-21T19:29:21.140-04:00FrankM said...
Some Islamic fundamentalists be...FrankM said...<br /><br /> <b>Some Islamic fundamentalists believe that women should not be educated and that apostates should be hunted down and killed. I do not subscribe to either of these points of view</b><br /><br />The point wasn't about agreeing with someone's beliefs, just their freedom to believe what they want. I don't like some things I hear. But by all means, people must believe them if they wish. In the UK at the moment, we seem to be going through this thing of invoking the thought and belief police. Not only are people trampling on other's views and beliefs, there seems to be this kind of "you are deficient for even <i>thinking or believing</i> these things. This isn't the kind of view we want in this country." Now, it may actually be that some of those folk are deficient for having such thoughts but to say they shouldn't believe what they want to is for me a bridge too far. <br />Also, just because I uphold your freedom to think or believe what you want doesn't mean I want to hear it. Nor does it mean I won't challenge it if I do. Nor does it mean I respect the actual view. <br /><br /><b>the only intellectually honest position to adopt is agnosticism, given that there is no supporting evidence for God's existence or failure to exist</b><br /><br />I actually have a certain sympatico with this view but would add that that is why God doesn't require our intellect and intelligence but our <i>faith</i>, which is essentially trust. I could tell you of 32 years worth of stories of how God has impacted my life. Not things in my imagination, not things I'd make up etc. But I could never prove any of it to someone that wasn't there at the time or someone that wasn't open to such things {even then I couldn't really prove, only explain why/how}. And it might be asking too much or wholly unreasonable to say "take my word for this." Even when fellow believers tell me of certain things, I weigh them up and don't just accept what I've been told {how do I know it's not coincidence ? Or exaggeration ? Or trying to look good etc} and others have done this with me {and I'm glad they did, ultimately}. And sometimes I conclude, sorry, this wasn't God and other times I conclude it was. <br />Evidence can mean different things to different people's situations.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-91918000336696228792017-10-21T19:21:50.146-04:002017-10-21T19:21:50.146-04:00@Grim, I feel guilty for trolling this conversatio...@Grim, I feel guilty for trolling this conversation away from Manson blog. HOWEVER..(yes I took the bait)...sorry, I'm going to have to agree with David, to the extent that 'the rules' do matter, some are for practicality, (Tapeworms in pork)..some are personal opinions, (Paul saying he felt MEN should wear their hair short)and there 'are' rules that are commands from God through the Apostles...GENDER EQUALITY 'IS' WRONG! God does not give wo-MEN the same authority as a MAN! Wives are to OBEY their husbands. They are to dress modest, and are not to draw attention to themselves. They are not to be in the instructor role, and are not to usurp authority over MEN. Jesus said: "I will turn wo-MEN MALE, so they may enter heaven, for all wo-MEN who become MALE, will enter heaven" Sorry Grim, but God gives MAN dominion over wo-MEN. That means we are stewards, Patriarchy is necessary, for the survival of the tribe. Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10341912936545924770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-84677621949982219452017-10-21T18:59:08.728-04:002017-10-21T18:59:08.728-04:00David said...
To say 'Guru' diminishes... David said...<br /><br /> <b>To say 'Guru' diminishes the impact this man had on his 'Christian' followers. A weapon he used both in defining the roles of the women and the men find's it's origins in the Bible</b><br /><br />That's an interesting one and is kind of {sorry.....} paradoxical. If there is one aspect of biblical writing that really has been misrepresented down the centuries, it's the position and role of women. It's scandalous and what is quite fascinating is how both believer and non believer alike have so often trotted out the same misinterpretation.<br />However, there really aren't many places or eras up to the 1960s that were markedly different. Parts of the world that had no biblical penetration went down the same road.<br />It should also be pointed out that the women in the Family bought wholesale into Charlie's philosophy. For them their roles represented to a large extent a middle finger to what many perceived as 'christian'. Charlie's schtick regarding females is just as strongly traceable to his Mum trying to get rid of him and eventually succeeding, mixed with the young women feeling that they were freer and more enlightened than their 'christian' parents who they saw as living bloody boring, in some cases, divorced, wrecked lives that they didn't really want any part of.<br />As ever, it's nuanced.<br /> joseph esposito said...<br /><br /> <b>the bible does say, that the Catholic church is "The great whore from Rome" (The whore of Babylon) and it has 'poisoned' the nations...with the cup of it's lewdness"</b><br /><br />One needs to careful there because none of the biblical writers said that. Yes, the whore of Babylon is used as a metaphor for that mindset that sets itself against God and yes, one could read into it that there could be political and religious dimensions, but Rome isn't specifically mentioned, nor is the Roman Catholic church. It didn't exist at the time Revelation was written.<br />In the beginning the entire church was 'catholic' and arguably still is or should be because all 'catholic' means is 'universal' or 'open to all' or 'broad'. <br /><br /> FrankM said...<br /><br /> <b>what does cost some people is to understand a god that sanctions the birth of a child suffering from spina bifida or similar. The stock answer is that God moves in a mysterious way his wonders to perform, and who are we to attempt to understand his purpose, but that doesn't work for me</b><br /><br />The weird thing is that sometimes, God does move in a way that at that time, we just can't fathom. There are enough times throughout the bible where God does explain why certain things befall people, but frustratingly, not every time. The answers aren't always pretty. And in the modern day, God has explained why certain things have happened but the reality has often been that the recipients reject what they've been told.<br />I think it's daft to not attempt to understand God's purpose though, even if we're often at fault, because <i>that's the way we are made</i>.<br /><br />grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-58178879416887407722017-10-21T18:22:03.024-04:002017-10-21T18:22:03.024-04:00David said...
I have a distinct recollection ... David said...<br /><br /> <b>I have a distinct recollection from my studies of the Bible that Christ specifically said the 'new covenant' did not change the commandments</b> <br /><br />Well, he said to those of his day that he hadn't come to do away with the law ~ equally crucial is the second part of his sentence ~ that he had come to <i>fulfill</i> it. He is the one that the law pointed at. He criticized the religious leaders for not recognizing him because they didn't observe the law in the spirit in which God intended. They essentially did what much of the church has done and continues to do in too many realms ~ turn vibrant, free life into man made rules.<br />Equally important is that he deliberately bated his critics in their understanding and application of the law and also spoke in riddles to his own disciples. It wasn't until just before he died that he stopped speaking cryptically. From there on, one can chart throughout the rest of the documents that comprise the NT various explanations of things that were hidden or that weren't entirely clear in Jesus' time. For example, in regards to the law {a word that is often interchangeable with 'the commandments'}, Paul many years after Jesus departed speaks of {Romans 3:21-31} and how the law couldn't have applied to most people but how God got around that.<br /><br /><b>I also remember Christ saying murderers go to hell</b><br /><br />He said they were in danger of judgement. He also said that anyone that was even angry with their brother or called them certain nasty names was in danger of judgement. And throughout the new testament, guys like Peter, Paul, James and Jude that were operating at God's behest mentioned all kinds of behaviour that would land someone in an unfavourable position regarding judgement. <br />There is so much interconnected stuff throughout the NT that addresses your questions and points and one thing I want to avoid is turning a post on Tex going to prison in San Diego into a lengthy thing on the meanings of statements and words from the NT that might turn people off and away. I'm happy to respond privately.<br />I also recognize that it's impossible to conduct conversations on this case without delving into religion {Eastern, Islamic~esque, Christian} because they are fundamental to not only what went on but the times in which they happened. <br />I just don't want to delve too deep !grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-53666803545971369582017-10-21T18:14:29.730-04:002017-10-21T18:14:29.730-04:00David said...
I may be in London next summer ... David said...<br /><br /> <b>I may be in London next summer and would enjoy meeting you</b><br /><br />I hope it happens.<br /><br /><b>"Guru": Ah, Grim but words matter. I'm a lawyer. Manson said he was Christ and the Devil</b><br /><br />I agree, words do matter, which is why I explained the way I used 'guru'. Funnily enough, I wasn't so much referring to Charlie as a guru {even though one of the Beach Boys apparently referred to him as a 'scruffy little guru'} as much as demonstrating that many people in that period became dependent on teachers and people that purported to show them the way : it wasn't limited to Tex. I agree with all you said about what Charlie said and how that all played into what happened. Incidentally, I don't know if you've read Nicholas Shreck's huge volume "Myth & Reality of an Outlaw Shaman," but he really treats that aspect of things well. Best part of the book actually, because it deals with a side of Manson rarely taken seriously.<br /><br /><b>Give me the Biblical quote for that (Book, Chapter and Verse is fine)</b><br /><br />The thing with the new testament is that because it is comprised of a few narratives, a load of letters written to churches or guys that were sorting out problems in specific churches and one apocalyptic work that meant something to its readers but little to succeeding generations, it's simply not written as a set of instructions, but is far more relational. It's no coincidence that Christ didn't leave a set of writings or instructions to be handed down and the first of the gospels appeared long after he was crucified. When fellow believers go on about "the word of God" and new testament scripture I often ask them what do they suppose all those gatherings of people who began the new life in Christ did before unknown persons began writing down their stories ?<br />All over the NT one can see that forgiveness from sin which led to new life in Christ was the centrepiece ~ this was the message that was brought to people all over that part of the world.<br />The "whosoever believes in me" is critical mass to the understanding. Jesus also says in a number of different ways what God is after and how he views humanity and the importance of repentance to the process {Luke 15 gives some good examples}. The John 3:16 passage that people love to quote and hold up on banners at sports events is critical {so much so it's quoted again in verse 36 and by others elsewhere in one way or another} but for over 30 years, I've been aware that I've never heard anyone speak about or even quote the two verses that immediately follow it. Verse 17 in particular tells us exactly how God would view Tex. Whether that turns out to be the end result, no one can tell. "Believing" isn't mere mental assent. It's what one's actions and life are that determine whether one actually believes. And that could be constantly shifting over a 40, 50, 60 year period.<br />I know as a Deist you don't go for this aspect, but suffice it to say for now, having God's presence as a living reality trumps things written down ~ which is mainly what Christ and those that came after him majored on.<br /><br />grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-59319774305386692202017-10-20T22:20:56.643-04:002017-10-20T22:20:56.643-04:00Oh for the love of mike!! Ridiculous effort to try...Oh for the love of mike!! Ridiculous effort to try to post... no wonder I'm a lurker. I'm a born-again but I sure ain't no Saint. I'm a sinner living in a sin filled world but try better every day to be kind and non judgemental. This site is pretty cool and I read quite a bit of it. Interesting to hear different ideas and to read what the locked up killers are up to. Linsycarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09304198925590553338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-33661699564910814262017-10-20T22:15:23.243-04:002017-10-20T22:15:23.243-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Linsycarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09304198925590553338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-68111916853635065422017-10-20T20:14:19.836-04:002017-10-20T20:14:19.836-04:00Yes it was Tex it was the one recorded by Mrs. Tat...Yes it was Tex it was the one recorded by Mrs. Tate and Suzan. I believe it was 1994.beaudershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14223387983663922713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-38904409847248245152017-10-20T10:03:43.982-04:002017-10-20T10:03:43.982-04:00"Some people can't understand a God that ...<b><i>"Some people can't understand a God that would even forgive a heinous person like Tex..."</i></b><br /><br />I don't think an all forgiving creator is THAT hard to understand - what does cost some people is to understand a god that sanctions the birth of a child suffering from spina bifida or similar. The stock answer is that God moves in a mysterious way his wonders to perform, and who are we to attempt to understand his purpose, but that doesn't work for me.<br /><br /><b><i>"Like the Mason's of old I respect all forms of spirituality and would defend to the death any person's right to believe whatever they believe".</i></b><br /><br />Up to a point, Lord Copper. Some Islamic fundamentalists believe that women should not be educated and that apostates should be hunted down and killed. I do not subscribe to either of these points of view.<br /><br />Atheism doesn't work either for me - the only intellectually honest position to adopt is agnosticism, given that there is no supporting evidence for God's existence or failure to exist. One can, however, view the matter in terms of probability for which evidence may more easily be sought.<br /><br /><i>À propos</i> of which, in his autobiography Bertrand Russell recounts a WW1 prison experience in which the warder asked him his religion. Russell replied “agnostic.” The warder asked him how to spell it. When Russell did so, the warder wrote it down remarking, “Religions are many, but I suppose they all believe in the same God.” Russell writes that this exchange kept him cheerful for a week.FrankMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15929422641281493764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-35693379185726369232017-10-20T00:19:01.870-04:002017-10-20T00:19:01.870-04:00I wasn't impressed? However la Jolla, is breat...I wasn't impressed? However la Jolla, is breathtaking.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401936091901195126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-56451422000771375182017-10-20T00:16:34.517-04:002017-10-20T00:16:34.517-04:00The Bible calls saved, born again ppl saints. It&#...The Bible calls saved, born again ppl saints. It's automatic when one repents, and becomes a child of God.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401936091901195126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-56432461359173562582017-10-19T21:24:09.428-04:002017-10-19T21:24:09.428-04:00@David, No harm No foul. We are all Americans, &am...@David, No harm No foul. We are all Americans, & British, (Yiddish)...some theologians see a linkage, it's hard to digest, but humans evolved from different tribes and became different, from the originals, and yet we are all still linked. If it's of any consolation, the bible does say, that the Catholic church is "The great whore from Rome" (The whore of Babylon) and it has 'poisoned' the nations...with the cup of it's lewdness" Jesus said: "Never call anyone Father" Mathew:23...I don't mean to offend Catholics, which I myself was one, as my whole family is... as most Italians & Irish are Catholic, and there is some good works done by the church, and some good people as well, unfortunately religion herds people by their tribes, as opposed to the written word, which has to ring a bell with the recipient, understood some people need the structure, but the institution has become political, as many of our institutions have...David, Jesus said: "If you even call someone a 'FOOL' you are subject to hell, something I have to worry about, because I do it often...David I do respect your skepticism, because we'll never know everything until we die, and then...we will know...now back to CHARLES FUCKIN MANSON...Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10341912936545924770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-26963442154445234582017-10-19T02:42:32.896-04:002017-10-19T02:42:32.896-04:00Grim,
Yes, face to face would be a better option ...Grim, <br />Yes, face to face would be a better option and depending on the degree of insanity in the world I may be in London next summer and would enjoy meeting you. <br /><br />"Shot Twice": ah, yes, thank you. You have a better memory then me. <br /><br />Grim said: "The only thing I can say regarding Tex here is that if he is guilty, he's played a very dangerous hand over the last 43 years but God is incredibly patient, knows what he's doing with those that place themselves in his care and sees the total picture as we simply can't."<br /><br />The only thing I can say is: I am a Deist. There is really nowhere to go with this. We have a different view of God which makes the conversation 'tangential'. <br /><br />"Guru": Ah, Grim but words matter. I'm a lawyer. Manson said he was Christ and the Devil. Without addressing that we miss one, what I believe, is a key component of what happened. To say 'Guru' diminishes the impact this man had on his 'Christian' followers. A weapon he used both in defining the roles of the women and the men find's it's origins in the Bible. I'm just surprised he didn't make the women wear veils. If he is a 'false prophet' lets call him what he claimed to be. The Christian symbolism is extraordinarily important to understanding what happened, his motive and why it unravelled after the shooting of Bernard Crowe. IMO of course. <br /><br />"Christian upbringing": we may be having a semantical issue here. <br /><br />"Yeah, God does forgive, even horrific murder." <br /><br />Give me the Biblical quote for that (Book, Chapter and Verse is fine. I have one handy [Deist: even if it is missing about 100 other writings because a bunch of political hacks decided what should be in it and by doing so deprived all of us of the ability to exercise our 'free will' on the subject of Christ. Instead in a strange irony there are now multiple churches all in agreement with the Catholic church that only what is in those books is canon. How extraordinarily ironic- political commentary over, sorry.]. I have a distinct recollection from my studies of the Bible that Christ specifically said the 'new covenant' did not change the commandments. I also remember Christ saying murderers go to hell. But It has been some years since I read the Bible except here and there. Please. I'd like to know the source. Is it just the whosoever believes in me.....?<br /><br />I enjoy you immensely. <br /><br />Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551377673977145628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-51188093655141466582017-10-19T02:05:54.807-04:002017-10-19T02:05:54.807-04:00"rim's" replace with "Grim'..."rim's" replace with "Grim's"Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551377673977145628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-77992428259708538262017-10-19T02:04:59.419-04:002017-10-19T02:04:59.419-04:00Joseph said: "@David, we are no longer under ...Joseph said: "@David, we are no longer under Mosaic law, we are under 'grace'...(everyone gets in 'if' they repent)"<br /><br />I take it from your comment you assumed I was somehow attacking rim's faith. If that is how I came across I humbly apologize to you and Grim. <br /><br />My only hope would be that you would give my beliefs the same respect. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551377673977145628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-17700645718755272102017-10-18T20:36:12.499-04:002017-10-18T20:36:12.499-04:00David said...
Charlie didn't say 'guru...David said...<br /><br /><b>Charlie didn't say 'guru' he said Christ</b><br /><br />I was just using the term loosely to describe the kind of figures that those looking for answers were attracted to.<br /><br /> <b>He said Armageddon not World War III. Charlie had a Christian upbringing</b> <br /><br />That phrase "Christian upbringing" carries a couple of different connotations for me and is usually used as synonymous with church going, which is something altogether different in my view. But that's a different chat for a different time.<br /><br /><b>Read Naguchi's testimony. This is not a 'good' way to die. If your Christian God forgives that....</b><br /><br />Yeah, God does forgive, even horrific murder. Forgiveness does come in different spheres though; initially the one asking for forgiveness can't possibly do so for each individual wrong word or act that one would have been involved in up to that point. As maturity takes hold, one has a clearer idea of precisely <i>what</i> one is asking for forgiveness for.<br /><br /> Mr. Humphrat said...<br /><br /> <b>on Tex's possible involvement in Shea's murder....I didn't know any of those details you cited and I'm assuming you're accurate because it seems like you usually are</b><br /><br />The sources I got them from are "Helter Skelter," Steve Grogan's parole hearing from 1981 {can be found on ColScott's site}, the last 4 parole hearings of Bruce Davis {on Cielo.com's site} and George's "Goodbye Helter Skelter" {page 191}.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-31956604885692562382017-10-18T20:08:21.239-04:002017-10-18T20:08:21.239-04:00David said...
I also believe anything I write...David said...<br /><br /> <b>I also believe anything I write from this point forward is a waste of finger movements</b><br /><br />I don't.<br />That said, a face to face would be the better option.<br /><br /><b>We will continue to disagree but here you go:</b><br /><br />Yes, that is true of a number of things, but there's quite a bit of what you said here that I actually agree with.<br /><br /><b>Watson's Christian upbringing had more to do with where he ended up than the notion he abandoned Christ and found him again later</b><br /><br />I said something similar to Dani P although it was his upbringing {and what comprised some of it} that I said he'd departed from.<br /><br /><b>One must initially accept a second coming, Armageddon and the Book of revelations as real, present possibilities to believe a second coming</b><br /><br />I'd say yes to the first with a long discussion on the second and third because it's not as straightforward as it sounds in your sentence.<br /><br /><b>I'm not sure where I said Frykowski wasn't shot twice</b><br /><br />You didn't and I wasn't saying you said he wasn't shot twice. In the "Sadie's stroll" post, we were having a conversation about what evidence says and what eyewitnesses say and you were saying you didn't accept Watson had a knife when Parent was killed because no one saw him with one and there is no evidence that he had one, even though he says he had one and used it. So I asked you if you applied the same standard to Tex saying he shot Frykowski twice given that no one could remember him doing so to which you replied "Yes, they are liars, every one of them whether it was by omission, by design, exaggerating their involvement or minimizing it."<br /><br /><b>Which of these displays the appropriate Christian value or perhaps you could offer an explanation for his silence that does equate with Christ's teachings. I'd like to hear that</b><br /><br />If he was involved, I don't believe that he has done the right thing by not coming clean. If I had a relationship with him, I would seriously dig at that matter. I can't justify his silence if he was involved. When asked why he had said nothing about Bill Vance and Larry Jones, Bruce said that he hadn't wanted to wreck Larry's life as he was so young and he couldn't have been used against Vance anyway but since at least '93 he openly has been talking about their involvement. The only thing I can say regarding Tex here is that if he is guilty, he's played a very dangerous hand over the last 43 years <i>but</i> God is incredibly patient, knows what he's doing with those that place themselves in his care and sees the total picture as we simply can't. There are many of us in Christ that hang onto things for years that we should let go of, often demonstrating that our trust in God isn't all it should be....but much of the time, the almighty gets there in the end. The longer it's left, the harder it is but God's love and patience outweighs our fears and getting there in the end is something that God places great importance on.<br />For the record, I do believe that Tex was involved, too many fingers point in his direction, his name came up more or less <i>right</i> from the start and the words of Bruce, his brother in Christ, take on weight too damning to be ignored.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-91060775189621546262017-10-18T18:50:56.001-04:002017-10-18T18:50:56.001-04:00@grimtraveller, I know I'm a troll on a Manson...@grimtraveller, I know I'm a troll on a Manson blog, but for what it's worth, I think you are very enlightened, even tempered, tolerant, long suffering, and eloquent in your testimony for Christ. Some people can't understand a God that would even forgive a heinous person like Tex, and I say to them, Christ would even forgive Hitler, 'if' some people can't understand Grace. btw, Hitler, Castro, Lenin, Gaddafi, Trotsky, Karl Marx, Hillary, Michelle & Barak Obama, Angela Merkel ALL PART JEWISH...@David, we are no longer under Mosaic law, we are under 'grace'...(everyone gets in 'if' they repent)Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10341912936545924770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-45426647978267833032017-10-17T22:41:55.095-04:002017-10-17T22:41:55.095-04:00Grim said: "I'm curious, why is that ?&qu...Grim said: "I'm curious, why is that ?"<br /><br />Looking at your comments I think a conversation on that will not be fruitful. We will continue to disagree but here you go:<br /><br />You are Christian. I respect that. Like the Mason's of old I respect all forms of spirituality and would defend to the death any person's right to believe whatever they believe. I also believe anything I write from this point forward is a waste of finger movements. <br /><br />I am a Deist. <br /><br />I'd feel better about 'Don't call me Tex's' conversion if he had spent some twenty years in some secular therapy coming to grips with what inside him, in his emotions, youth, religious upbringing, thoughts and beliefs got him into this before he retreated to precisely what got him into this to begin with. One must initially accept a second coming, Armageddon and the Book of revelations as real, present possibilities to believe a second coming, Armageddon and the Book of Revelations is actually imminent or has occurred. You can semantically change what occurred but Charlie didn't say 'guru' he said Christ. He said Armageddon not World War III. Charlie had a Christian upbringing. <br /><br />Watson's Christian upbringing had more to do with where he ended up than the notion he abandoned Christ and found him again later. He found Christ in Manson. A Hindu would not. <br /><br />I'm not sure where I said Frykowski wasn't shot twice. I think I recall saying Atkins couldn't see it but that was a few posts ago. Regardless, the autopsy report answers the ultimate question one way or the other- science. <br /><br />As to Shea: everything you say is otherwise accurate and all of those inconsistencies are why I said what I said. He needn't admit he was involved (except he was) but he could 'confess' to what he knows. 'I was in the saloon when they came back and Clem said....'. He chooses silence. He chose to remain silent as to that murder and after his conversion. Why? The snitch code? Fear of prosecution? No SOL on murder. Doesn't feel like addressing it? Doesn't feel its relevant? Which of these displays the appropriate Christian value or perhaps you could offer an explanation for his silence that does equate with Christ's teachings. I'd like to hear that.<br /><br />Likely his conversion to Christ unfortunately allows him to recover from his nightmares, rationalize what he did to seven human beings 50 years ago and reach a level of personal peace with committing multiple murders. He also likely things he gets the E ticket out of Hell. <br /><br />It allows him to feel secure in the fact that some higher power (the one he learned about as a child) has forgiven him even if not the State of California or the victims- secular beings who don't really count. <br /><br />To me that last one is the key:victims He personally butchered seven people, six in the most horrific way. I apologize for the graphic content but they knew what was happening. They knew they were dying. Despite the multiple wounds it is the blood loss that kills you. You pass over ten minutes. Read Naguchi's testimony. This is not a 'good' way to die. If your Christian God forgives that....and you do.<br /><br />Then the ten commandments must have footnotes I missed.<br /><br />And I will remain a Deist. <br /><br />Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551377673977145628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-71852251260863576652017-10-17T22:09:51.395-04:002017-10-17T22:09:51.395-04:00Grim damn fine points on Tex's possible involv...Grim damn fine points on Tex's possible involvement in Shea's murder You are a wealth of information I didn't know any of those details you cited and I'm assuming you're accurate because it seems like you usually areMr. Humphrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18206702171683458150noreply@blogger.com