tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post3348485113738557242..comments2024-03-28T23:53:16.262-04:00Comments on The Manson Family Blog: Charles Manson's MotherMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comBlogger82125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-2226320076818495842019-10-22T13:36:40.920-04:002019-10-22T13:36:40.920-04:00I'm leaving some unknown history about Kathlee...I'm leaving some unknown history about Kathleen Maddox, I got the history from my Dad, Uncles and Aunt that knew her personally. Kathleen stood up for my Aunt when she was married in Ashland, Kentucky.<br />My Dad's family lived in a house where the property adjoined hers.<br /><br />Her claim of not being a prostitute, possibly. But she was extremely promiscuous. My 2 older Uncles were not exactly virtuous. Both had sex on a regular basis with Kathleen. They were in their 20's, worked for the C&O railroad.<br /><br />After the murders, my Uncle Ernie visited us, I remember when Daddy brought up the murders, Ernie looked at him stating, "you know who that is don't you?"<br />Daddy remembered Charlie in their home in diapers.<br /><br />I know Daddy has always had a question about the father, because of how quickly she left, and then returning with a baby. My other Uncle that was involved with her, his name was Charlie. Ernie was always a jackass,marrying a 12 year old directly after Kathleen left. Charlie was a very kind person, married about a year later to a very nice lady.<br />Daddy was never able to bring up the question about the possibility of either of my Uncles being the father. It was taboo to bring up.<br />My Aunt Sis tried to locate her after the murders, but was unable tooAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02612544111448501690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-4205951976360058782018-12-22T15:53:19.369-05:002018-12-22T15:53:19.369-05:00Wasn’t Kathleen Buried in Spokane Washington?? Som...Wasn’t Kathleen Buried in Spokane Washington?? Some say she was Buried in Vegas.. anyone know for sure?? Shawnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02979861989447981947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-40220299870497428942018-11-08T14:59:22.492-05:002018-11-08T14:59:22.492-05:00AstroCreep said...
One can’t apply 2018 logic... AstroCreep said...<br /><br /> <b>One can’t apply 2018 logic to an event that took place in 1935</b><br /><br />In many instances of different subjects, that's true. But not always. Some things change because the prevailing mindsets or even individual mindsets change. But other things remain fairly constant.<br /><br /><b>some can o worms you opened up!</b><br /><br />I know ! <br />Still, I'd rather open up cans of worms than leopards !!grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-82936145898919830832018-11-06T13:03:20.641-05:002018-11-06T13:03:20.641-05:00Grim- some can o worms you opened up!
This is not...Grim- some can o worms you opened up!<br /><br />This is not defending either position, just a general statement. I see examples of this in pretty much everything- politics, television, movies, etc.<br /><br />One can’t apply 2018 logic to an event that took place in 1935. Period. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />AstroCreephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14400828131305289484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-24956542637890532922018-11-02T23:31:34.511-04:002018-11-02T23:31:34.511-04:00Claire Robinson said...
She was fifteen ffs!
...Claire Robinson said...<br /><br /> <b>She was fifteen ffs!</b><br /><br />What's your point ? That she didn't know enough to be sneaking out to dances and having sex with Colonel Scott ? That she didn't know enough to accept a marriage proposal ? That she showed her immaturity by lying about her age ?<br /><br /> <b>And rape just happens? Are you serious??</b><br /><br />Are you ? Has anyone in this thread even implied that rape <i>just</i> happens ?<br />Claire......<br />I don't mind if I say something daft and I get called out for it. But if you have to be the heavy, then at least be the heavy on what I've <i>actually</i> said.<br />Where did I say that rape just happens ? Are you actually a] reading what I actually wrote and b] attempting to understand what my point is ?<br /><br /> <b>Rape is when men decide to abuse women!</b><br /><br />So, if a guy decides that in order to not be "backchatted" to by any woman he's going to be physically violent and strike before he thinks he's struck, or be continually verbally abusive because he thinks males are superior to females, that's rape ?<br />I don't mean to be rude or seem condescending, but your definitions are way off.<br /><br /> <b>It doesn’t just HAPPEN!</b><br /><br />If by that you mean that rape in general is the final act in a process that may have begun long before, I have no argument with that. It's nuanced, but I can see the road being travelled. But until the rape actually takes place, you do not have a rapist. A guy who wants sex with his wife/girlfriend, or even expects it or nags for it to take place, but doesn't actually have sex and just complains about it or throw it in as grounds for a divorce, to say he is a rapist because his wife/girlfriend doesn't want to partake {and is therefore not freely giving consent}, is, well, let me be a dumb gent and just say "not right."<br /><br /> <b>Like I said...you don’t have a fucking clue</b><br /><br />I don't have a clue.....what you are het up about.<br /><br /><b>I used to think you were super smart</b><br /><br />Well, I never did !grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-49358317238118796432018-11-02T19:28:14.853-04:002018-11-02T19:28:14.853-04:00Grim for you to say rape just happens...😭 I used ...Grim for you to say rape just happens...😭 I used to think you were super smart but nope you aren’t.<br /><br />Ah well....LastGirlOnTheLefthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05836640848171283652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-41103260880110670252018-11-02T19:15:36.964-04:002018-11-02T19:15:36.964-04:00She was fifteen ffs! And rape just happens? Are yo...She was fifteen ffs! And rape just happens? Are you serious?? Rape is when men decide to abuse women! It doesn’t just HAPPEN! Like I said...you don’t have a fucking clue.LastGirlOnTheLefthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05836640848171283652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-71742919521933356422018-11-01T20:14:01.670-04:002018-11-01T20:14:01.670-04:00Claire Robinson said...
you are still a man wit... Claire Robinson said...<br /><br /> <b>you are still a man with no idea at all what it is to be a young woman with a child!</b><br /><br />I would have thought that was self evident !<br />That said, I was sticking up for Kathleen in the "no sex" contention. I'll say it again ~ if she didn't feel like sex in the fall of '34 and the early months of '35, that's not surprising. She was pregnant for part of it and recovering for the other part. I had a Mum, I have a wife, I have 2 sisters and several close female friends that have had kids. I've observed "matters" over a 41 year period and had some illuminating conversations.<br /><br /> <b>Women were second class citizens. We still ate ffs!! Women were denied education and work. They were left high and dry with babes in arms</b><br /><br />I don't recall disputing any of that. I'm not sure what you are arguing about.<br />In saying that however, I see nothing anywhere that states that Kathleen was denied a place in school or couldn't get work. Having the cards stacked against a person is no primary excuse for being a less than adequate Mum and giving your child away.<br /><br /> <b>I stand by rape. If consent is not FREELY given, it is rape</b><br /><br />It is rape when it <i>happens</i>. Not because it is expected. If a husband <i>expects</i> to make love with his wife, but she isn't up for it, rape isn't even on the radar. If he gets narky about it and isn't considerate, it may make him all kinds of adjectives ~ 'rapist' isn't one of them.<br />grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-74881912258338930662018-11-01T06:46:48.548-04:002018-11-01T06:46:48.548-04:00Grim
Not to be a pedant, which I am, but you'...Grim<br /><br />Not to be a pedant, which I am, but you'll have better luck looking up Ginger Man references if you search not on Don Leavy but [JP] Donleavy. It's a good read, but maybe a little dated - and very misogynist. See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ginger_Man.<br /><br />Apologies, Matt, if this was off topic.Percival Buttermerehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01590486115458497546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-41675460568495080192018-10-30T17:32:38.157-04:002018-10-30T17:32:38.157-04:00Grim, you are obviously an extremely intelligent a...Grim, you are obviously an extremely intelligent and empathetic man. But you are still a man with no idea at all what it is to be a young woman with a child! <br /><br />Women were second class citizens. We still ate ffs!! Women were denied education and work. They were left high and dry with babes in arms.<br /><br />I stand by rape. If consent is not FREELY given, it is rape. <br /><br />LastGirlOnTheLefthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05836640848171283652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-58499584117079415422018-10-28T22:22:54.094-04:002018-10-28T22:22:54.094-04:00Claire Robinson said...
Kathleen was a CHILD ... Claire Robinson said...<br /><br /> <b>Kathleen was a CHILD when she had Charlie..she was also a child when she got married</b><br /><br />One of the debating points that rears its head here in the UK every so often is the lowering of the voting age to 16. Loads of people feel that 16 year olds aren't mature enough to vote and I used to be of that number but then, I thought about the kids that I had worked with and at 15 and 16 a number of them could have easily voted, and sensibly too. On top of that, I have known plenty of adults for whom it is/was debatable whether they truly knew what they were doing when they were voting. Some people vote for a particular party simply because their parents always did. Should they not vote ?<br />If Kathleen was born in January 1918, that would make her 2 months off her 17th birthday when she had Charlie. In England at that age, one can have sex, be in a full time job, learn to drive, ride a motorbike, get married if your parents OK it ~ and during the Scottish independence referendum of 2014, 16 year olds were given the vote and 71% voted in favour of independence, while 29% voted for the status quo. While it's true some at that age are immature and shouldn't be trusted with the washing up, one is hardly a child at 16. Granted, childhood has only recently been left but......<br />In quite a few parts of the world, for centuries, young people are married at that age. And the guys are having to wrestle lions or crocodiles to prove they are no longer kids !<br /><br /> <b>and her husband took great offense at not being allowed to rape her! Are people forgetting how young she was? Marital duties my arse...I know things were very different for women and girls back then but I'm sure no one would expect a young girl then to go through that rapey shit!</b><br /><br />Rape is a bit strong. He was young and horny as many 24 years olds would be. He married a pregnant young lady and obviously had a problem taking on board a child that wasn't his. But expecting sex with your wife is hardly a crime and it doesn't appear he forced himself on her.<br />That said, it's no wonder she didn't want sex in the fall of 1934. She was pregnant for the first time in her life. And after the fall through the latter part of '34 and early '35, she had just had a baby. William Manson for a 24 year old didn't seem to have had much consideration for his wife or maybe some guys in those days just never considered that being with a baby all day was pretty draining and the last thing you might want to do as your body and mind is slowly coming back to where it was is cook, mop the floor and get in the sack.<br />Has the world really changed that much ?<br /><br /> Percival Buttermere said...<br /><br /> <b>As in Don Leavy's 'Ginger Man'</b><br /><br />Ah. <br />You know, for 27 years, I've been listening to a song by a guy called Ronnie Drew called "The Mero" {on the LP in question, there's about 4 reprises of the song} in which he references the ginger man and never knew what he was on about. Now, thanks to you, it makes sense !<br /><br />grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-80062131253255500402018-10-28T20:14:55.735-04:002018-10-28T20:14:55.735-04:00I thought Charlie was mostly raised by an aunt. I&...I thought Charlie was mostly raised by an aunt. I'd like to read her interview. His mom sounds like a sociopathic white washing liarDan Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17058602981660065969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-19884769228683078392018-10-28T19:03:57.005-04:002018-10-28T19:03:57.005-04:00Grim:
As in Donleavy's 'Ginger Man'.<b>Grim:</b><br /><br />As in Donleavy's 'Ginger Man'.Percival Buttermerehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01590486115458497546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-25688292441095052452018-10-28T18:36:29.891-04:002018-10-28T18:36:29.891-04:00Deb, fantastic post! Your research and tenacity ar...Deb, fantastic post! Your research and tenacity are magical. I learned a lot. Katleen sure had a troubled soul.Monicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01571929710287716239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-87398566928797135302018-10-28T18:17:28.255-04:002018-10-28T18:17:28.255-04:00Kathleen was a CHILD when she had Charlie..she was...Kathleen was a CHILD when she had Charlie..she was also a child when she got married and her husband took great offense at not being allowed to rape her! Are people forgetting how young she was? <br /><br />Marital duties my arse...I know things were very different for women and girls back then but I'm sure no one would expect a young girl then to go through that rapey shit! And that newspaper piece about Boys Town is so misogynistic. Blaming his mother for everything and acting like Manson is practically a choirboy. We see with Manson fleeing Boys Town the same week what bull that was. <br /><br />Kathleen was a child having a child. LastGirlOnTheLefthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05836640848171283652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-37843121385281343182018-10-28T02:11:10.682-04:002018-10-28T02:11:10.682-04:00Apropos hair stylists and wig shops, I'd think...Apropos hair stylists and wig shops, I'd think there was some overlap, especially in show businessDan Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17058602981660065969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-38370240972654144982018-10-28T00:38:00.593-04:002018-10-28T00:38:00.593-04:00As an adopted person I was born without a name, I ...As an adopted person I was born without a name, I was called Baby Girl Ford, even though Mr. Ford was my biological mothers ex-husband and not my biological father. My birth fathers last name was Evans. They had an affair and I wonder if I was the reason for her divorce which was not common for someone in Portland, Oregon at age 21 in 1964?beaudershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14223387983663922713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-83149616558353611882018-10-27T19:42:55.717-04:002018-10-27T19:42:55.717-04:00Percival Buttermere
AKA Marmaduke Hebblethwaite.
... <b>Percival Buttermere</b><br /><br />AKA Marmaduke Hebblethwaite.<br /><br /> Dan S said...<br /><br /> <b>Did tex have any contact with Jay Sebring at the wig shop?</b><br /><br />I think Jay dealt with the real thing !<br /><br /> AstroCreep said...<br /><br /> <b>Most people walk around blind to what they would or wouldn’t do</b><br /><br />Even if we're not blind, we tend to think there are some things we wouldn't do and on a conscious level, we're all probably right. But life is so unpredictable and what we may consciously think may not always be the way we'd actually act. It's like being married or living with someone or being a parent ~ the situation can be a sufficient hothouse in bringing up aspects of ourselves that we just never knew were there or had had to face before and we might be a little surprised at how we act sometimes. Probably not how we thought we might do.<br /><br /> Robert C said...<br /><br /><b>like his mother said, Charles was always good at getting others to do his bidding</b><br /><br />And it would seem that for a while, she was a good teacher.<br />But as an aside, is that really drastically different from a number of people we all may know ? Playgrounds and parks have long been places where'll you'll find kids like that. Some of them go on to be sports team leaders, business owners and captains of industry and we praise them for it and call them inspirational !grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-45485839865222286882018-10-27T19:25:25.051-04:002018-10-27T19:25:25.051-04:00The baby was born Nov. 11, 1934, and was listed on... <b>The baby was born Nov. 11, 1934, and was listed on the birth certificate as "No Name Moddox." after his mother's maiden name. But that was not out of indifference. Mrs. Manson says, but because she was awaiting the arrival of her own mother in Cincinnati.<br />"I figured I'd already hurt her pretty had, so I wanted to let her name the baby, you see. So she named him after my father." A few weeks later, she had the birth certificate changed to Charles Milles Manson.</b><br /><br />It would be interesting to know the exact percentage of children that have a name before they are born or at the moment they are born or even the day they are born.<br />The circumstances of Charlie's birth in the 30s may be a story worth telling, but there is absolutely nothing unusual about being born without a name. Neither of mine were born with names, the second didn't have a name for almost a week. My older sister's first kid didn't have a name for almost 3 weeks. Myself and friends used to joke about what the name was.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-52694501074711241002018-10-27T15:18:04.626-04:002018-10-27T15:18:04.626-04:00Pee holePee holeDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17388908256992077315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-17753946879111838672018-10-27T15:17:29.401-04:002018-10-27T15:17:29.401-04:00I shudder to think of how vapid an existence that ...I shudder to think of how vapid an existence that guy must live that he has to pump his own tires with such putrid and, utterly unimaginative missives as he feels necessary to spew out of his lonely, vile, per hole of a mouth.<br />Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17388908256992077315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-11983884516120190302018-10-27T09:27:35.441-04:002018-10-27T09:27:35.441-04:00Peter said...
Mrs. Webers douche.
I just shook wi...<i>Peter said...<br />Mrs. Webers douche.</i><br /><br /><b>I just shook with laughter. Nice.<br /><br />Sorry I was slow on the delete button. No worries everyone, He will never be allowed to comment here. We'll delete him. In the meantime please resist the temptation to feed the troll, funny as it can be sometimes...</b><br /><br /><br />Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-76440801519976203152018-10-27T08:53:48.125-04:002018-10-27T08:53:48.125-04:00Mrs. Webers douche. Mrs. Webers douche. Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08760641498649508874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-64266309465573044222018-10-27T06:42:15.505-04:002018-10-27T06:42:15.505-04:00Deb,
At the risk of sounding like a broken record,...Deb,<br />At the risk of sounding like a broken record, thank you for another well researched and informative post. Orwhuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00872103754747037178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-15227126709573627912018-10-27T05:57:04.042-04:002018-10-27T05:57:04.042-04:00Oh dear, here we go again ...Oh dear, here we go again ...Percival Buttermerehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01590486115458497546noreply@blogger.com