tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post3929491910952865923..comments2024-03-27T21:24:06.590-04:00Comments on The Manson Family Blog: The Col Presents: THE LAST WORD on Tom O'Neill's CHAOSMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-27639797110651419082022-02-12T17:38:04.254-05:002022-02-12T17:38:04.254-05:00Sheer poetry, ah! Sheer poetry, ah! G. Greene-Whytehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16687404262559321867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-6961838965657353412021-12-27T19:35:50.273-05:002021-12-27T19:35:50.273-05:00Can i recommend that you all read another book whi...Can i recommend that you all read another book which gives another veiw point on the CIA's Operation MHCHAOS, this is Operation Chaos by MATTHEW SWEET and was released the year before Tom O'Neills. This books DOES NOT mention Manson or his crimes or any connection to them.<br />The importance of this book that its focus is on the US Army Vietnam deserters and their life in the safe and welcoming arms of Sweden. To the point, the book looks at the Deserters infiltration by the CIA and suspected agent Micheal Vale who strongly controls the group by a method called "Ego Stripping" and he also has an unhealthy interest in "The Beatles" sound familiar?!?... Stranger67https://www.blogger.com/profile/09541132363359729614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-24284124110879068152021-04-07T21:45:10.880-04:002021-04-07T21:45:10.880-04:00Stranger 67
Absolutely not. Completely unprofess...Stranger 67<br />Absolutely not. Completely unprofessional. He left the parole system which was good for everyone. OldPOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07655818702800546112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-63167655951376844002021-03-10T17:35:22.826-05:002021-03-10T17:35:22.826-05:00Old P.O. Thank You Sir, really appreciate your hel...Old P.O. Thank You Sir, really appreciate your help...<br />Can i ask one more please, Roger Smith who was we are told was running Mansons Parole from the Haight Ashbury Clinic goes to Medinco County to collect Mansons Child and Foster cares the child with his wife in his own home, this does not seems the normal action of a Parole Officer, have you ever heard of this happening before in the Parole Service? Stranger67https://www.blogger.com/profile/09541132363359729614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-7455485470233843372021-03-04T19:46:55.629-05:002021-03-04T19:46:55.629-05:00Stranger67
I can only guess what Charlie meant. H...Stranger67<br />I can only guess what Charlie meant. He probably saw that he could get away with just about anything in order to stay in this study they were conducting and used it to his advantage. If this was the case, the U. S. Parole Commision would have been crucified if it was shown they ignored violations and allowed Manson to remain on the streets to commit all these murders. The government always protects itself. OldPOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07655818702800546112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-47993972353375792892021-02-21T17:04:03.680-05:002021-02-21T17:04:03.680-05:00Old PO
Really interesting comments, Manson claimed...Old PO<br />Really interesting comments, Manson claimed in the book "Manson Now" that he was put on the Witness Protection Scheme" Can you help us out on how that worked?Stranger67https://www.blogger.com/profile/09541132363359729614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-44734566651399685082021-01-16T19:19:04.390-05:002021-01-16T19:19:04.390-05:00As a former probation officer, I was always amazed...As a former probation officer, I was always amazed how Charlie was allowed to remain free all this time after his release in 1967. Despite arrests, drug use, association with felons, possession of weapons, travel without permission, no legit employment, etc, he just stayed on the streets. Chaos explained to me that since Charlie was part of Smiths program, he didn’t want him returned to prison. This also explains why the US Parole Commision went to great lengths to keep Manson’s parole file from being introduced at sentencing. Bug fought hard to keep this out of evidence. In 35 years of experience in the legal system, I have never before seen a prosecutor fighting to keep someone’s prison record and parole record from being used in a sentencing hearing. This book explained why to me after all these years. So for me, this was all new information.OldPOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07655818702800546112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-1698942731554768362020-06-22T22:32:06.037-04:002020-06-22T22:32:06.037-04:00O'Neill has actual sources for what he writes ...O'Neill has actual sources for what he writes from LAPD, LASD and DA files, FOIA requests, published papers and archives. Jolly West archives are at UCLA and can be accessed via appointment. The so-called conspiracy stuff was exposed by the Church Committee report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee , info from Project MKUltra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra , etc. HE MAKES NO CLAIMS THAT ARE NOT DOCUMENTED IN THE RECORD. He does present circumstantial evidence about Manson being in the same clinic as MDs doing research into LSD, violence and mind control but he never tries to claim that was how Manson learned how to use LSD to gain control of his followers. <br /><br />Read the book. You dont have to accept O'Neills conclusions but he does explore other areas where other researchers have not gone.madsircoolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09422122731151564262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-33660211558038617292020-05-26T23:51:36.658-04:002020-05-26T23:51:36.658-04:00YEP I think Polanski wrote that story. Remember Bo...YEP I think Polanski wrote that story. Remember Bob and Roman knew MAJOR people; a fixer and a Nixon cabinet member...uh KISSINGER? BOTH he (henry) and ROMAN loved them some Jill St John (who roman wanted to play vs his character in Vampire Killers before Tate). Read up on the coded response Col. Tate renders about Polanski. Occams Razor slices again.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11498826089197600241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-70989455118099955252020-01-29T18:40:50.264-05:002020-01-29T18:40:50.264-05:00ColScott said...
the knowledge that BUG was me... ColScott said...<br /><br /> <b>the knowledge that BUG was mentally ill......bullshit theory that was weaved together by a mentally ill......Italian Dwarf</b><br /><br />Ironically, the lawyer in the case that had mental health issues was Irving Kanarek. Sometimes, one wonders if those issues weren't already beginning to sprout during the trial, when one looks at some of Kanarek's actions, even when his client, Charlie, was telling thim to shut up or sit down or was trying to have him thrown off the case or complaining that Irving was neither listening to him nor doing as he requested.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-64742931259473218742020-01-23T20:19:07.994-05:002020-01-23T20:19:07.994-05:00ColScott said...
I have never disputed the fac... ColScott said...<br /><br /> <b>I have never disputed the facts of the case.........BUG only gains inches if he gets Charlie as the mastermind. A mastermind has to have a reason, even a stupid one. In the case BUG invented the "King of the Apocalypse World motive."</b><br /><br />The facts are that 6~8 months before the murders happened, Charlie was telling the Family exactly what would occur, how people would be cut up and words like "pigs" written on walls in blood. The day before the murders, he even reiterated this to Stephanie Schram's sister.<br />But heck, it was just Charlie's con, right ? That it went on to actually happen the way he outlined it to a number of people {including the rational Gregg Jacobson} is just one of history's great coincidences, right ?<br />Col, never let the facts of the case get in the way of your hatred of Bugliosi. Oh, hang on, wait....<br /><br /> <b>On the facts of the case Charlie is not guilty of Tate 1000%</b><br /><br />At a stretch, you could make that argument if you also were to accept that circumstantial evidence isn't worth a bean. Now of course, circumstantial evidence doesn't always prove a case ~ it could have been interpreted wrongly and a good lawyer can introduce sufficient doubt. But when you put together Linda Kasabian's evidence with the gun, the rope, the actual house on Cielo then add that to the fact that the conspiracy ran the two nights so add to that the thong, the actual house next door to the LaBiancas, what was written at 3301 Waverly and what Susan Atkins told Juan Flynn <i>before</i> they set off and all the connections to Charlie, then for a jury to hear all that and conclude that Manson shouldn't even have been tried is ludicrous.<br />One shouldn't toss off that phrase "the facts of the case" as though one was talking about a jam sandwich being made up of two bits of bread and some raspberry jam. There were tons of "facts of the case" and one of the most significant aspects of the case is that the defendants did not defend themselves against what was said about them. It's an all too often overlooked point but it is really important. The plethora of facts of the case are what added up to convictions in the end. Helter Skelter is <i>not</i> what convicted Charles Manson. Reading the books by William Zamora and Herman Tubick {plus some of the stuff William McBride says in the Tubick book} makes that clearer than some people would ever want to admit.<br /><br /> AstroCreep said...<br /><br /> <b>Bugs collects information from multiple sources that proves HS as a ‘philosophy’ that Charlie squawks about</b><br /><br />One problem I can see with the idea that Charlie didn't believe HS but it was just his narrative to get the others worked up is the the question of "to what end ?" One would pretty much have to accept that 8 months before the summer murders, Charlie was planning murders......unless he believed that this was something, like the fall of the Haight that he'd forseen and actually thought was going to happen, indeed already <i>was</i> happening. The 1970 Rolling Stone interview shows <i>he believed it</i>, Beatles lyrics, prophecy, Revelation, desert and all.<br />grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-52803765477452370402020-01-21T10:39:08.217-05:002020-01-21T10:39:08.217-05:00There's no evidence against Knox.There's no evidence against Knox.Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00695804336905521685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-1576264790595565292020-01-17T20:45:49.345-05:002020-01-17T20:45:49.345-05:00ColScott said...
I am not a deluded narcissist... ColScott said...<br /><br /> <b>I am not a deluded narcissist like Grim</b><br /><br />You wouldn't know a deluded narcissist if you sat next to yourself staring at a full length mirror. You'd like what you saw though.<br /><br /> <b>On the facts of the case Charlie is not guilty of Tate 1000%.....On LaBianca.....hung jury at least</b><br /><br />Were you one of the scriptwriters for "Rise of Skywalker" ?<br /><br /> <b>BUG only gains inches if he gets Charlie as the mastermind. A mastermind has to have a reason, even a stupid one. In the case BUG invented the "King of the Apocalypse World motive."</b><br /><br />Interestingly, both Al Springer and Danny DeCarlo, before Bugliosi was on the case, pegged Charlie as being behind the killings and both connected the thing about him being leader of the world and the fight against pig society with it too. <br /><br /> <b>What no one expected, from Stovitz on down, was Charlie being all like "Yeah that sounds cool, I'm badass."</b><br /><br />Although looking at some of the things said about him throughout his previous times in various institutions, the groundwork was laid.<br /><br /> Zelda Formaldehyde said...<br /><br /> <b>the song 'Salesman' that the Monkees recorded ... one of my favorites of theirs</b><br /><br />Same here. It's a great song, one of many from that rather maligned troupe. I love the laconic way Michael Nesmith sings it. <br /><br /> AstroCreep said...<br /><br /><b>in order to rope Charlie in on conspiracy/murder he has to prove this is Charlie’s ‘philosophy’.....Charlie possibly walks on Tate but there’s no way out of LaBianca</b><br /><br />Because the two nights were dealt with as one conspiracy and both Atkins and Kasabian are clear that the opening night's events kick off with Charlie's direction {no one was going anywhere until he called people aside}, I'm not so sure he even walks on Cielo. It's really that second night that fries his giblets and so ties him into that first night. <br /><br /> grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-32507253391864328092020-01-17T02:41:41.311-05:002020-01-17T02:41:41.311-05:00He also tried to kill his mother...and, was very n...He also tried to kill his mother...and, was very nearly cast as the "Peter Tork" character in The Monkees.<br /><br />Extremely interesting story...reminds me more of Skip Spence or, even Bob Mosley (both from Moby Grape if not familiar) than of Syd Barrett (whom he is often compared to). Syd Barrett was never homeless, still using drugs, without any human contact once removed from the music industry and scene. He was an exceptionally prolific artist (painter) who - true to his eccentricity and, abstract thought processes, would destroy his completed artwork immediately upon completion. He lived in a fair sized home where he painted all the walls in the rooms in varying colors...whenever he felt the need to. He would sleep in whatever room he felt good about sleeping in, so they all had beds. And, THE BIKE (with basket and bell) was in one of the rooms too. His siblings were in regular contact with him.<br /><br />Craig Smith was completely homeless and very much off the Grid. He (like Spence and Mosley...and, Danny Kirwan of Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac) was not on meds and, wayyyyyy deep into drugs.<br /><br />Any one of these four musicians (not including Syd) would make fascinating studies. <br /><br />I guess Craig had the 1968 association with the Manson Family too...not very deeply delved into though...Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17388908256992077315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-84380826279477213392020-01-16T14:32:31.404-05:002020-01-16T14:32:31.404-05:00Finally saw once upon a time in Hollywood. Never s...Finally saw once upon a time in Hollywood. Never spoiled myself so i went from looking for innaccuracies to enjoying his little twist. Looking forward to the review....Dan Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17058602981660065969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-81881400448943100382020-01-16T14:30:31.213-05:002020-01-16T14:30:31.213-05:00How can you say he d have had no idea they'd s...How can you say he d have had no idea they'd slaughter the labiancas when he knew about the cielo massacreDan Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17058602981660065969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-72953184601610121272020-01-16T10:51:58.227-05:002020-01-16T10:51:58.227-05:00Zelda said...
But then off the deep end goes Tom...Zelda said...<br /><br /><b> But then off the deep end goes Tom...</b><br /><br />I managed to get through it pretty quickly, but it sure sounds like you and I reached very similar conclusions when we were done.<br /><br />It’s one thing to claim that the JFK assassination was the result of a conspiracy. It’s another thing entirely to claim that the JFK assassination was a conspiracy between bigfoot and some extraterrestrials. For a twenty year effort, it’s a sadly disappointing book to me.Carloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16229053220050517462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-29694284265880250752020-01-16T01:08:42.485-05:002020-01-16T01:08:42.485-05:00Craig Smith wrote the song 'Salesman' that...Craig Smith wrote the song 'Salesman' that the Monkees recorded ... one of my favorites of theirs. Zelda Formaldehydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02858067536737717388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-39046855734594669252020-01-16T01:04:26.652-05:002020-01-16T01:04:26.652-05:00ColScott said...
"On the facts of the cas...ColScott said...<br /> "On the facts of the case Charlie is not guilty of Tate 1000%- even if he said "Go with Tex and do what he says" there are many ways out of that."<br /><br />The zombies didn't have thought in their heads that wasn't put there by Charlie.<br /><br />The Family, by Ed Sanders pg351<br />(around Aug 18) Tex laughed and told Snake, according to Snake, that he killed Sharon Tate: "I killed her. Charlie asked me to. It was fun."<br /><br />Manson was Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!starviegohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11256800799989566468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-32917604368179991052020-01-16T00:48:36.766-05:002020-01-16T00:48:36.766-05:00I finished reading the book recently. It took me a...I finished reading the book recently. It took me a few days to read the first 60%, and it took me 3 months to read the final 40%. <br />Like all books on this case, I approached it with an open mind, but also mindful that O'Neill is generally regarded as a nutter. I found the first half interesting enough, but skeptical of his reporting in certain areas. The Melcher angle was interesting, but even moreso was that of the mystery man, Reeve Whitson. Skeptical, but fascinating in that Joel Rostau way. <br />But then off the deep end goes Tom, and suddenly I'm ready about labratory mice. It got easy to put the book down at that point, and nearly impossible to pick it back up in an attempt to finish it. This book was never going to see the light of day as long as Bugliosi was alive. Tom was clearly terrified of him. Zelda Formaldehydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02858067536737717388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-12219175709018306492020-01-15T18:25:18.246-05:002020-01-15T18:25:18.246-05:00sure- I always felt he wanted fame and he got it, ...sure- I always felt he wanted fame and he got it, just not like he wantedColScotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04198505620789173534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-27369911510870946052020-01-15T18:19:10.365-05:002020-01-15T18:19:10.365-05:00Col,
It brought him the fame he desperately sough...Col,<br /><br />It brought him the fame he desperately sought to overcome his daddy rejection issues. AstroCreephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14400828131305289484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-52655992528004986752020-01-15T17:18:47.363-05:002020-01-15T17:18:47.363-05:00Astro- I have never disputed the facts of the case...Astro- I have never disputed the facts of the case. I am not a deluded narcissist like Grim.<br /><br />On the facts of the case Charlie is not guilty of Tate 1000%- even if he said "Go with Tex and do what he says" there are many ways out of that. On LaBianca he says "yeah I was there, but I had no fucking idea these maniacs were going to slaughter everyone- and hung jury at least.<br /><br />BUG only gains inches if he gets Charlie as the mastermind. A mastermind has to have a reason, even a stupid one. In the case BUG invented the "King of the Apocalypse World motive."<br /><br />What no one expected, from Stovitz on down, was Charlie being all like "Yeah that sounds cool, I'm badass."ColScotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04198505620789173534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-43238604483302665312020-01-15T16:41:39.236-05:002020-01-15T16:41:39.236-05:00Jurors want a motive. If you don't give them o...Jurors want a motive. If you don't give them one, they will try to supply their own. Bugliosi gave them Helter Skelter to keep the jury focused on the evidence in a trial that went on for 9 months.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08760641498649508874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-40857149249569096472020-01-15T08:38:00.280-05:002020-01-15T08:38:00.280-05:00Col, stick with me here-
Bugs collects informatio...Col, stick with me here-<br /><br />Bugs collects information from multiple sources that proves HS as a ‘philosophy’ that Charlie squawks about. I think we agree there. Bugs doesn’t have to prove motive BUT, in order to rope Charlie in on conspiracy/murder he has to prove this is Charlie’s ‘philosophy’. He also has to prove Charlie as the ‘trigger’ for the murders and I think this is where we (as a collective) simplify the term to “motive” when in reality, it’s philosophy and trigger. <br /><br />I view the ‘trigger’ for Tate as “get some dark clothes and do what Tex says”. Do you agree and if yes, is that what you believe Bugs fabricated? If yes, Charlie (possibly) walks on Tate. <br /><br />What do you believe is the ‘trigger’ for LaBianca and how is Charlie not culpable of that murder? <br /><br />Simplest terms, if the above is true, I believe Charlie possibly walks on Tate but there’s no way out of LaBianca. <br /><br />AstroCreephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14400828131305289484noreply@blogger.com