tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post4568323748583585123..comments2024-03-28T23:53:16.262-04:00Comments on The Manson Family Blog: MansonBlog Tour 2019: What's with Horn Avenue?Matthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comBlogger89125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-39330320741670358552019-07-29T14:03:00.484-04:002019-07-29T14:03:00.484-04:00I wonder - was there a massive massacre or some ot...I wonder - was there a massive massacre or some other event that occurred at and/or near the intersection of Horn and Shoreham during, say, the Spanish Occupation, or even before that? Or even after? Something out of "Poltergeist", perhaps? Was it originally a meeting place for bad folks? <br /><br />I just wonder, lol. Like the area of Los Feliz, aka "Lost Felix" had a rep even in the 1940s, because of a curse laid on it by an old Spanish lord or landowner. (That I got from "Lost in the Horse Latitudes" by H. Allen Smith, about his time in the Hollywood/L.A area in the 1940s when he worked for Paramount Studios>)Loegria15https://www.blogger.com/profile/05228022510504226954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-73783431570517641272019-07-29T13:57:22.617-04:002019-07-29T13:57:22.617-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Loegria15https://www.blogger.com/profile/05228022510504226954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-91939511587436428432019-06-20T12:38:06.622-04:002019-06-20T12:38:06.622-04:00Trilby,
Amazing you had some contact information o...Trilby,<br />Amazing you had some contact information on Billy Doyle. After his interview by LAPD in August of 1969, he basically disappeared, from what I can determine. I have not been able to find any photos of him, either. <br /><br />Of course Doyle was close to Voytek and Abigail, and he would be an excellent source of information on them and those who moved in their orbit, like Pic Dawson, et al.Torquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00444301737391992929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-49617803646632516972019-06-18T18:33:44.210-04:002019-06-18T18:33:44.210-04:00Yes Trilby, we were worried. ♥️Yes Trilby, we were worried. ♥️Patty is Deadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07717777500117142160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-48482237194303435822019-06-17T14:00:04.396-04:002019-06-17T14:00:04.396-04:00According to William Garretson, he went to Turners...According to William Garretson, he went to Turners Drug Store to get a TV dinner, cigarettes and a Pepsi Cola. He was given a ride back to Cielo Drive by some hippies in a van. There was no Turner's Drug Store on Sunset Boulevard, but there was a Turner's Liquor Store, at the corner of Larrabee and Sunset, next door to the Viper Room shown on the map. (It is now called Terner's Liquor Store.) The hippies who gave him a ride probably included Bobby Jameson and Harvey Dareff, since they lived nearby on Horn Street.William Westonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10569199741225116792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-84326070111475530952019-06-16T07:40:02.980-04:002019-06-16T07:40:02.980-04:00TRILBY!!!! What a relief to hear from you...
TRILBY!!!! What a relief to hear from you...<br /><br /><br />Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-11196588533540549782019-06-16T02:49:24.412-04:002019-06-16T02:49:24.412-04:00Thanks Trilby! I'll look into it. Lots of st...Thanks Trilby! I'll look into it. Lots of stuff to follow up on.DebShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17093893870315262396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-85953516368998771542019-06-16T00:54:12.902-04:002019-06-16T00:54:12.902-04:00Deb, after I just posted my reply to you, I still ...Deb, after I just posted my reply to you, I still couldn't rest until I rooted thru cabinet & got out the file that had Jameson's address.<br />Get ready...<br />IT WAS 1211 HORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br />And next to it I notated in parentheses '68-'69.<br />O-O !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br />Trilbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12310843050495075993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-90723731311731859192019-06-16T00:47:38.564-04:002019-06-16T00:47:38.564-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Trilbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12310843050495075993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-39692204552145740002019-06-16T00:34:05.931-04:002019-06-16T00:34:05.931-04:00Deb, please give me turnaround time on this, but I...Deb, please give me turnaround time on this, but I will e-mail you some links to articles about a mobster: loan-sharking, drug dealing (coke), extortion, laundering, securities fraud, etc etc etc; guy by the name of Jack Catain. Google him & the owner of Cyrano's, the restaurant/bar that was at 8711 Sunset in those days. There was a mob-connected coke operation being run out of there & they supplied Rostau, Sebring, & from what I was told, Doyle & Harrigan at times re: coke. Harrigan's father was an infamous Ottawa bookie. Guy named H. Daniel Whitman (Dan Whitman) fronted as owner of Cyrano's in that era. Cyrano's also, interestingly, was within easy walking distance of Horn. And get this: Catain, a big-time mobster, was also involved in COUNTERFEITING. (Catain's kid, btw, followed in his father's footsteps.) I truly have always felt Catain possibly could be a link to LaBiancas. I wish I could trace him to Hollywood Bank re: Leno, b/c Catain later fronted an LA bank for $-laundering. I will try to find my file w/Jameson's specific address, but it was on Horn. And he was frequently at Cielo, all his later "Who, me?" bullsh*t aside (& I had that directly from someone who knew him in that time frame.). There's another guy in the PR2, IIRC surname Small, that interests me too. So many of these names in the PR2 were not only into running dope but GTA too. I've always found that odd.<br />I had tried to get Billy Doyle to talk to me a few years back but radio silence. The other thing I've always wondered is if Sid Korshak was the fixer in this case re: coming up w/an official narrative. How did Atkins & Harrigan both end up w/same mob lawyer? And Sebring's lawyer was another mob lawyer, Harry Weiss. Anyway, just some avenues for googling & this is the most I've typed or spoken in months so signing off now.<br />Congratulations on your book. I hv always been in awe of your writing & research abilities.Trilbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12310843050495075993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-18242316099594420602019-06-15T21:40:44.418-04:002019-06-15T21:40:44.418-04:00William and Trilby, that's very interesting ab...William and Trilby, that's very interesting about Bobby Jameson. The police reports don't give an address for Bobby so I didn't know that. Too bad he has passed, he could have been a great person to speak with about who was at 1211 Horn Ave. But it does give me another direction to research.DebShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17093893870315262396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-38453652963410294882019-06-15T16:52:56.124-04:002019-06-15T16:52:56.124-04:00William, Garretson mentioned the people who picked...William, Garretson mentioned the people who picked him up were in a van and IIRC it was 2 men and 2 women who Bill found attractive apparently, upon getting to the main part of Cielo Bill told them he wanted to get out but they insisted taking him up the hill, then when they get to the small four way stop where Cielo veers up the hill to the left and Bella Dr goes right he was even more forceful about getting out but they said we'll take you the rest of the way and got to the gate they somehow got Bill to let them in and one of the guys said "hey that's one of our friends cars" when they saw Jay's Porsche and said let's play a trick on him and according to Bill opened the door and got in it, they then told Bill they were on their way to a party but "if that party isn't happening we'll come party with you", this was during Brian Davis radio show in I believe 2012Mon Durphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08648945418743296256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-78565090234845771052019-06-15T16:22:32.181-04:002019-06-15T16:22:32.181-04:00I can only comment briefly, & also as my cogni...I can only comment briefly, & also as my cognition improves "Thank You"s will be on the way to each & every one of you who helped me in my fight for survival & expressed caring thoughts. Esp. Matt & Julie.<br />I can't read all the comments right now so I apologize in advance if someone has said this already. (I see the comment right above me mentions Bobby Jameson).Also, I apologize for rambling/my inability to be articulate these days.<br />Normally I would recall all the links, but still fuzzy-minded. So go to Police Report #2 - Bobby Jameson et al lived on Horn Ave at that time IIRC. Mickey Rooney Jr. And the guy running dope Jamaica-->US, IIRC, I can't think of his name. Damn malfunctioning neurons!!!!!<br />Deb & Dreath, you're uncovering something really big here, I think.<br />I need to check what the Cyrano's address was too (dope central re: mob distribution). Has anyone ever found more info on Setterholm? Because re: Police Report 2, I've connected Harry Baird to Iain Quarrier, black militants, BEL, Doyle/Harrigan, etc. (several yrs back, right before I had to stop researching.).Eugene (Gene) Massaro (dammit, not sure I have name right) fits in there too.<br />Again, sorry for incoherence.<br />Believe it or not, it took me forever to type that incoherent mess of a comment. :(<br />Love & Peace to you all.Trilbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12310843050495075993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-61740862646115377042019-06-15T13:06:40.114-04:002019-06-15T13:06:40.114-04:00SixtiesRockRules! mentioned Harvey Dareff. On Bobb...SixtiesRockRules! mentioned Harvey Dareff. On Bobby Jameson's blog he mentioned how he and Harvey were in the vicinity of 10050 Cielo Drive the night of the murders. Jameson and Dareff might have been at least two of the hippies that gave Garretson a ride back to the house from the Sunset Strip.<br /><br />Jameson made the following comments about Diane Linkletter, Harvey's girlfriend.<br /><br />"I went up to the apartment on Horn Ave. to talk to Ed Durston after Timmy Rooney told me Ed was in the apartment when Diane jumped from her 6th floor kitchen window. I also wanted to see Jimmy George, who lived below the apartment where Nancy and I had lived with Ed. <br /><br />From what I'd learned, Jimmy had actually been outside his apartment, and seen Diane falling to the pavement below. At first he'd thought someone was playing a practical joke and had thrown something out the window, but then realized it was a person. <br /><br />He didn't know at first it was Diane, and he'd seen her hit the ground. He was in shock, but ran over to where the person hit the pavement, and that is when he realized it was Diane. He told me he could not do anything for her, and it made him feel like an asshole. <br /><br />He said she was still alive when he reached her, and that she looked up at him but couldn't speak. He said she was bleeding a lot from her head, and he wanted to help her, but didn't know what to do. I knew Jimmy, and he was a happy go lucky guy, but on this day he was broken in a way that is hard to describe, just broken."<br />"William Westonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10569199741225116792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-85924932615288455362019-06-15T10:16:41.764-04:002019-06-15T10:16:41.764-04:00I appreciate the point about Watson’s state of min...I appreciate the point about Watson’s state of mind immediately after the murders, but he did have the presence of mind to ditch the weapons, ditch the clothes AND wash down at the Weber place. To me those actions show that he was very much in control of himself and thinking clearly. So I think that there is merit to the point about there being a reason for their wayward route back to Spahn. I’ve always wondered why they got so spooked by an elderly Weber but presumably their fear there was the close proximity of other houses and that their kill cravings had been satisfied at Cielo. Speculatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489618949347706102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-49277782901136227132019-06-15T08:27:46.534-04:002019-06-15T08:27:46.534-04:00Col- my thoughts exactly. The tendency to make rat...Col- my thoughts exactly. The tendency to make rational from irrational- <br /><br />For me, Susan has always been the lynchpin to what really went down. In all of her blabbing to her cell mates and to the lawyers/Grand Jury, the FACTS of the case have remained consistent. <br /><br />Deb and others mention similar in that it’s hard to come up with new material because it’s a fifty year old case but in reality, it’s not because it’s an old case, it’s because there is NOTHING new. <br /><br />Sure there are things (like this post and many others) we can learn. But as far as the facts of the case? Those haven’t really changed since December 1969. AstroCreephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14400828131305289484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-18220978607164910322019-06-14T19:14:00.277-04:002019-06-14T19:14:00.277-04:00Those who have extreme mental defect seem to think...Those who have extreme mental defect seem to think that after the adrenaline rush of murder while on speed Tex is thinking clearly. Which is hilarious since that is not something Mon has ever done.<br /><br /><br />Patty- why don't you delete the offensive dialogue? Rub it away so to speakColScotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04198505620789173534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-58455076527435125372019-06-14T15:28:21.041-04:002019-06-14T15:28:21.041-04:00Yes Deb that's exactly what I think, see my po...Yes Deb that's exactly what I think, see my post above about my theoryMon Durphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08648945418743296256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-81156164203340215302019-06-14T15:22:56.631-04:002019-06-14T15:22:56.631-04:00Yes that's exactly what I've thought, also...Yes that's exactly what I've thought, also remember Texs response to Weber "we were just out walking and wanted a drink", I think they possibly parked on Portola and tried finding Jay's place on foot and doubled back when they couldn't find itMon Durphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08648945418743296256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-87288919797122021102019-06-14T15:20:50.974-04:002019-06-14T15:20:50.974-04:00Mon, I've thought that the reason they drove o...Mon, I've thought that the reason they drove over to Portola to wash off was because they were trying to find Jay Sebring's house which is on Easton in the next block and ended up on Portola because they didn't know for sure where they were going. Maybe just turned up the wrong street. <br /><br />I can't answer to why they went to the gas station on Sunset unless, as William Weston suggested above, it had something to do with Horn Avenue.DebShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17093893870315262396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-11982183345542686382019-06-14T15:15:16.129-04:002019-06-14T15:15:16.129-04:00William Weston, I actually did not consider the ga...William Weston, I actually did not consider the gas station location, thanks for pointing it out!DebShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17093893870315262396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-68273713564012161722019-06-14T15:14:49.064-04:002019-06-14T15:14:49.064-04:00Notice how Portola Drive is parallel to Easton Dri...Notice how Portola Drive is parallel to Easton Drive where Jay Sebring lived? Ever heard the theory that the killers were driving to Jay's house post murders (probably to recover drugs, cash, or both) but then made the wrong turn and ended up on Portola and the confrontation with the dude about his hose? From that they were scared off and decided to head back to the ranch?starshiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13207679706874165027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-64246137891353024902019-06-14T15:12:38.812-04:002019-06-14T15:12:38.812-04:00Panamint Patty said...
As much as I dislike Mon or... Panamint Patty said...<br />As much as I dislike Mon or whatever his name is this week, he's being personally attacked. Will this blog's rules be applied evenly?<br /><br />Mon gets as good as he gives. DebShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17093893870315262396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-21664819782009445942019-06-14T15:10:57.234-04:002019-06-14T15:10:57.234-04:00Green White, thank you! It gets harder and harder...Green White, thank you! It gets harder and harder to come up with new material and new perspectives because it has been 50 years since the crimes and it's been talked to death.DebShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17093893870315262396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-65661616311752880702019-06-14T14:20:30.492-04:002019-06-14T14:20:30.492-04:00I've been asking exactly that since looking at...I've been asking exactly that since looking at a map of LA as it pertains to this case, they commit the killings then make a left on Benedict Canyon going toward Mulholland and the Vslley, they wash off on Portola then pitch the clothes down the embankment then instead of heading the logical way back to Spahn northwest through the Valley they go back down Benedict Canyon to Sunset and the city and even more strangely back toward the scene of the crimes past Cielo, there's no way Tex was lost, there has to be a reason for going back down to Sunset, unloading some of the drugs he got at Cielo maybe? Who knows<br />Mon Durphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08648945418743296256noreply@blogger.com