tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post6809072474702153988..comments2024-03-27T21:24:06.590-04:00Comments on The Manson Family Blog: Why does Mrs. Seymour Kott have her own Wikipedia page?Matthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comBlogger85125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-65896079047290420182023-06-21T20:26:00.635-04:002023-06-21T20:26:00.635-04:00Thanks for the new info, Grim. The idea of a 14yr...Thanks for the new info, Grim. The idea of a 14yr old shooting up is a bit extreme, though.starviegohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11256800799989566468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-54257337195731799432023-06-20T12:25:24.943-04:002023-06-20T12:25:24.943-04:00starviego said:
Angela Lansbury claimed for years...starviego said:<br /><br /><b>Angela Lansbury claimed for years that their move to Ireland was to get her kids away from the drug scene. Yet in a 2014 interview, she admitted that a big reason for the move was their fear of Manson:<br /><br /> <i>www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11305741/Angela-Lansbury-saved-daughter-clutches-Charles-Manson-uprooting-Ireland.html<br /> Late actress Angela Lansbury once had to pry her daughter from the clutches of convicted murderer and cult leader Charles Manson - revealing that she moved her entire family from Los Angeles to Ireland in order to protect her youngest child from the sinister criminal.</i></b><br /><br />Over on Cielo's site, there's an interesting article by Mary Neiswender, from June 1970, in which Charlie says some interesting things, among them:<br /><br /><i>“They say I’ve strung people out on dope. I say to the kids ‘Why take dope — just leave home — you don’t need dope.’”<br /><br />The 14-year-old daughter of a Hollywood and Broadway actress, Manson says, he “got off dope” until the girl’s mother returned home from New York.<br /><br />“I got her off speed…that’s bad. She was 14 and had tracks up her arms like you’d never believe. But her parents came back and she went back on it. Now she’s on heroin.<br /><br />“I really love kids — I love everybody. I even love that stupid-ass judge, if you can believe that."</i><br /><br />I would hazard a guess that this was a reference to Didi.<br />grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-17342314721376084412023-05-08T20:01:15.614-04:002023-05-08T20:01:15.614-04:00cielodrivecom said:
Candy's 2021 version of w... cielodrivecom said:<br /><br /><b>Candy's 2021 version of why Terry moved is nonsensical and reeks of embellishment. Just look at the timeline</b><br /><br />Yep. That's the feeling I got from Angela L too. Her stories and timelines seem off to me.<br />As for Candy, she really should have got together 👫 with Seymour Kott. They were a match made in hyperbolizing Hollywood Heaven. They could trade embellishments together ! And that would be such a cool name, Mrs Candy Kott !! 😆grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-17961471037068121362023-05-08T16:01:04.667-04:002023-05-08T16:01:04.667-04:00cielo...
Candy's 2021 version of why Terry mo...cielo...<br /><br /><b>Candy's 2021 version of why Terry moved is nonsensical and reeks of embellishment. Just look at the timeline...</b><br /><br />You've just identified a real concern that I have when reading about any self-disclosed possible connection with Manson: there's a certain odd cachet that those in the public eye, or those who would like to be, seem to derive from mentioning the connection. Fame by association...a sort of paltry, sick fame.<br /><br />I really tend to mistrust such revelations, especially those well after-the-fact.<br /><br />shoegazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14073693271676337152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-55837186983836435182023-05-08T15:21:30.552-04:002023-05-08T15:21:30.552-04:00Candy's 2021 version of why Terry moved is non...Candy's 2021 version of why Terry moved is nonsensical and reeks of embellishment. Just look at the timeline<br /><br />Terry moves out of Cielo Drive on January 2, 1969.<br /><br />In May of 1969, Terry goes to Spahn Ranch where Charlie auditions for him. Terry invites the family out to his place in Malibu. <br /><br />If you are so scared of someone that you move, why would then go hang out with said person and invite them to where you moved?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />cielodrivecomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03535091266830414644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-11776612185774621602023-05-08T13:16:36.766-04:002023-05-08T13:16:36.766-04:00Doug said...
...there is mention of Laura Shepp...Doug said...<br /> <b>...there is mention of Laura Sheppard's incredibly heroic mother, the Polish-born Irene Josephine Gazicki/Gazicke, who faced off with CM in the days just prior to the Spahn Ranch Raid.</b><br /><br />grimtraveller said...<br /> <b>He met Dianne Lake's parents. Dianne said that he and her Mum got on well, and he praised her Dad for being such a free thinker.</b><br /><br />I stand enlightened! The other ones I don't credit as their contact with the Family seems to have been rather fleeting.<br /><br />-------------------------------<br /><br />Charlie was here!<br /><br />Here are some photos of the Lansbury home in Malibu, located at 24818 Pacific Coast Highway, circa 1963:<br /><br />hdl.huntington.org/digital/collection/p15150coll5/id/6348starviegohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11256800799989566468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-59635777409584732522023-05-08T13:08:38.700-04:002023-05-08T13:08:38.700-04:00cielodrivecom said...
Even if Candice can ID him ...cielodrivecom said...<br /> <b>Even if Candice can ID him - which she can't - her testimony would've be redundant.</b><br /><br />She lied. She now admits to seeing Watson at the front door of the Cielo house in this interview from Jan 2021: https://www.stitcher.com/show/awards-chatter (at 29:15) She also now admits that they broke the lease at Cielo to get away from Manson. which implies she HAD met Manson too. (worth listening too, just for Candy's obviously faked ignorance of the case). <br /><br /><br />cielodrivecom said...<br /> <b>What would Martin bring to the Manson trial?</b> <br /><br />I don't know, but she was subpoenaed for the Watson trial regardless. Ask the prosecutor.<br /><br />starviegohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11256800799989566468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-30816897589180238312023-05-08T11:08:40.023-04:002023-05-08T11:08:40.023-04:00Grim, regarding your question whether I believe Sa...Grim, regarding your question whether I believe Sanders. I don't have high confidence in anything that Sanders is the only source on. My impression of him is that he did more research than he did fact checking. Since the paragraph was removed in later editions, I suspect he was unable to prove the claim about the note. <br /><br />Star, regarding the Knock Wood passage. Bugliosi wants to establish Watson's connection to Cielo Drive. He does this with Deana Martin (sort of) and Terry Melcher. Even if Candice can ID him - which she can't - her testimony would've be redundant. <br /><br />What would Martin bring to the Manson trial? Again, it would be to establish Manson's connection to Cielo Drive. This is accomplished by Rudi Altobelli, Terry Melcher and Manson himself, who testified that he had been there five or six times. <br /><br />If anyone had information useful to prosecution that couldn't be found elsewhere, they'd be subpoenaed. These were lengthy trials with many witnesses. Kenneth Hahn was losing his shit everyday over how much these prosecutions were costing the county. The LADA wasn't just calling witnesses just because they hung out or had some sort of connection to the Family. They had to have information pertinent to case. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />cielodrivecomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03535091266830414644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-31063416269903558692023-05-08T05:36:21.495-04:002023-05-08T05:36:21.495-04:00Starviego said, "It is also interesting that ...Starviego said, "It is also interesting that Angela Lansbury is one of the few parents that Charlie ever met while he was still free."<br /><br />Well, we know that is not factual because there is mention of Laura Sheppard's incredibly heroic mother, the Polish-born Irene Josephine Gazicki/Gazicke, who faced off with CM in the days just prior to the Spahn Ranch Raid. As did the parents of the schoolgirl rape victim (let's not disclose her name and call her "teenager C").<br /><br />We also know that the mother of two of the underage teenaged girls (let's call them D.D. and D.D.) who were, in fact, informants up to, including, and after the Spahn Ranch Raid, joined Laura's mother in going toe-to-toe with Manson during a visit with Laura's mother and, in at least one other occasion without Josephine G.<br /><br />Deb has posted much of the official documents that provide this information however, we chose to heavily redact their names. We were able to find background information, schools attended and photos of all of them. We did not post any of these photos because they were pretty heroic considering the circumstances and, we strongly believe that they deserve to have their privacy respected all these years.<br /><br />I'm sure that there were more parents that fought for their children's freedom from the ugliness that had taken over the commune by the time of the August 16th raid...<br /><br />You may even be able to find some of the details relating to some of these events and those involved by re-reading all those documents that Deb posted to the blog last summer...especially during August 2022.<br /><br />These runaways and their parents were fucking heroes!<br /><br />Cheers Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17388908256992077315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-19831564431447142902023-05-08T05:13:27.384-04:002023-05-08T05:13:27.384-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17388908256992077315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-81930816562921941652023-05-08T05:12:15.857-04:002023-05-08T05:12:15.857-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17388908256992077315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-31690765726549320892023-05-08T02:54:11.716-04:002023-05-08T02:54:11.716-04:00starviego said:
no one today can deny that Ed was...starviego said:<br /><br /><b>no one today can deny that Ed was right and that Didi did hang with the Family</b><br /><br />I didn't know that this was ever in dispute.<br /><br /><b>It is also interesting that Angela Lansbury is one of the few parents that Charlie ever met while he was still free. (Ruth Ann Moorehouse's mom and dad are the only other ones.)</b><br /><br />He met Dianne Lake's parents. Dianne said that he and her Mum got on well, and he praised her Dad for being such a free thinker.<br />He also met the older sisters of Pat and Stephanie Schram.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-27382950138215568302023-05-07T21:25:07.022-04:002023-05-07T21:25:07.022-04:00Tobias:
This was NOT a person that most people e...Tobias:<br /><br /><b> This was NOT a person that most people embraced in the real world, during that brief time he was free. Quite the opposite, in fact.</b><br /><br />It was a really weird time, though, tobias. I can recall that quite a few older people who considered themselves enlightened, bohemian, cosmopolitan, educated were looking for guidance--mystical or worldly, depending on what they felt lacking in. Hence gurus of various stripes. So it's certainly true that most people would not go for his pitch, some of those who did seemed not to be the kind who'd buy his line.<br /><br />Manson was a bargain basement guru.shoegazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14073693271676337152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-62426228800127900122023-05-07T20:13:15.918-04:002023-05-07T20:13:15.918-04:00"reportedly changed his place of residence an..."reportedly changed his place of residence and ceased all communication with his daughter."<br /><br />And he was far from the only one. The hero worship Charlie has received for all of these years has always confounded and amused me. This was NOT a person that most people embraced in the real world, during that brief time he was free. Quite the opposite, in fact.tobiasragghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01390878277344521524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-21556779916262673932023-05-07T18:43:22.252-04:002023-05-07T18:43:22.252-04:00grimtraveller said...
I'd love to know wh...grimtraveller said...<br /> <b>I'd love to know where the Angela Lansbury note story comes from...</b><br /><br />Ed Sanders is then the <b>only</b> source at the time that claimed this. Interestingly, this was never repeated by any of the mainstream media. Though no one today can deny that Ed was right and that Didi did hang with the Family.<br /><br />It is also interesting that Angela Lansbury is one of the few <b>parents</b> that Charlie ever met while he was still free. (Ruth Ann Moorehouse's mom and dad are the only other ones.)<br /><br />Though Witness to Evil, by George Bishop c.1971 pg419 had this:<br />"in 1967 Sandy received a monthly allowance check from her father, George Good. She regularly turned the money over to Charlie but apparently it wasn't enough; Charlie visited (daddy)Good on at least three occasions and threatened violence if the allowance was not increased. Good, because of his fear of the Family leader, reportedly changed his place of residence and ceased all communication with his daughter."<br />starviegohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11256800799989566468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-25511983002778861852023-05-07T17:18:13.144-04:002023-05-07T17:18:13.144-04:00Cielodrive.com said...
What relevant informati...Cielodrive.com said...<br /> <b>What relevant information did any of those people have that would warrant a subpoena?</b><br /><br />Yet they DID appear in court, sort of:<br /><br />Deanna Martin was <b>subpoenaed to testify</b> in the Tex Watson trial. According to her, Melcher <b>had some kind of deal with Bugliosi so she wouldn't have to testify</b> in the TLB trial. <br /><br />Candice got an even better deal. She wasn't subpoenaed for the TLB either, and for the Watson trail she merely had to sit in the back of the courtroom with Bugs to see if she could ID Tex. She claims she didn't recognize him. <br /><br />Knock Wood pg203 "When <b>I received a subpoena</b> to appear in court, Bugliosi <b>arranged</b> for me not to testify publicly, and instead sat with me in the back of the courtroom when Watson.. was brought out.. "<br /><br />starviegohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11256800799989566468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-71866351505393235902023-05-06T20:18:48.316-04:002023-05-06T20:18:48.316-04:00Matt did a post on April 11(?) 2012 about that pho...Matt did a post on April 11(?) 2012 about that photo of the four girls in front of the court house and asking if the one on the left was Deidre Shaw. In the comments people write about the robe she's wearing and saying it looks expensive and may have been from Pamela Courson's boutique, and also showing photos of Sharon Tate and one other woman in similar robes. I've already forgotten who the other woman was and also someone points out the real name of that clothing, not a robe. Anyway, towards the end of comments Matt says a former Manson family member contacted him and said that girl in the picture wasn't Deidre, for whatever it's worth.Mr. Humphrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02574243483977353223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-40975960317304060592023-05-06T05:20:08.468-04:002023-05-06T05:20:08.468-04:00Cielodrive.com said:
it comes from The Family, 1s... Cielodrive.com said:<br /><br /><b>it comes from The Family, 1st edition. It was removed from subsequent editions</b><br /><br />Thanks. <br />Just out of interest, do you believe it ? I notice that Ed is way off regarding Deirdre's age.<br /><br />tobiasragg said:<br /><br /><b>The six-hour Helter Skelter: An American Myth is probably the definitive documentary on this mess</b><br /><br />It's certainly one of the better ones I've seen.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-80864977192792432482023-05-05T23:02:47.295-04:002023-05-05T23:02:47.295-04:00https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd2KmZUFxws&ab...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd2KmZUFxws&ab_channel=LinAndreevatobiasragghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01390878277344521524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-37709697506550860882023-05-05T22:58:57.966-04:002023-05-05T22:58:57.966-04:00Thanks, Cielo.
The LA/Laurel Canyon scene was a p...Thanks, Cielo.<br /><br />The LA/Laurel Canyon scene was a pretty small one, really. Especially back then. The separation between the accomplished "haves" and those not quite there was barely existent. A situation Charlie helped to end, of course. But yes, the Manson people and Charlie himself were everywhere and generally well known. Not by name or anything, but they were *around* and Manson definitely made his connections - including meeting Angela Lansbury a couple of times and making a rather memorable impression on her, from what she has shared.<br /><br />The six-hour Helter Skelter: An American Myth is probably the definitive documentary on this mess; it is one that should be viewed by anyone with more than a passing interest in these affairs. These filmmakers take us places we've never been before: inside the Dennis Wilson house, on the streets and playgrounds where little Charlie once played. We view footage we've never seen and hear from family members who have rarely spoken of their time with the group, such as Stephanie Schram. Anyway, one of these six hours is devoted to Charlie's quest for fame and a record contract, and we hear from these people who were on the scene at the time. One tells the most fascinating story about Charlie, who was visiting Whisky A Go Go with a large party that included Terry Melcher. I won't relate the entire story, but Charlie essentially clears the dance floor - the crowd stepped out of the way to watch little Charlie dance. Charlie was an oddball to be sure, but people seemed to be fascinated with him, at least on some level. That's part of what led to the horror and paranoia once his involvement with the murders was made public. Charlie and his people had been *among* them.tobiasragghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01390878277344521524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-53813033987758106362023-05-05T18:50:50.672-04:002023-05-05T18:50:50.672-04:00Lansbury's house burned down in the same fire ...Lansbury's house burned down in the same fire that took down Spahn Ranchcielodrivecomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03535091266830414644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-14037105364165691012023-05-05T18:26:20.263-04:002023-05-05T18:26:20.263-04:00Grim, it comes from The Family, 1st edition. It wa...Grim, it comes from The Family, 1st edition. It was removed from subsequent editions<br /><br />https://www.cielodrive.com/Lansbury.jpegCieloDrive.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03772677089227025942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-57134617411083755052023-05-05T16:48:03.160-04:002023-05-05T16:48:03.160-04:00Deirdre Lansbury
Pardon me, Deirdre Shaw. <b>Deirdre Lansbury</b><br /><br />Pardon me, Deirdre Shaw.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-82162495728845212023-05-05T16:02:16.347-04:002023-05-05T16:02:16.347-04:00Starviego, this piece adds a couple of small detai...Starviego, this piece adds a couple of small details to the Lansbury story, most of which are already fairly known I think. Apparently it was mid 1968 where Didi's drug use was discovered and when her access to the family credit cards was cut off. They also place her as driving the bus when Barbara Hoyt was picked up and drawn in, which was April 1969. At best, Lansbury was an occasional presence in the Manson clan, perhaps she began to hang with them less once things took a darker turn in June 1969? The raids and true legal difficulties didn't begin until mid-August, maybe that scene had grown too ugly for her some time during that summer and she chose to hang elsewhere.<br /><br />https://themansonfamily-mtts.medium.com/the-children-of-the-stars-b231f52ad59ctobiasragghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01390878277344521524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-62977706828510924612023-05-05T14:14:02.906-04:002023-05-05T14:14:02.906-04:00On Cielo's site, there's a statement that ...On Cielo's site, there's a <a href="https://www.cielodrive.com/nancy-pitman.php" rel="nofollow">statement</a> that Deirdre Lansbury actually had a note from her Mum, saying that she could travel with the Family.<br />Cielo, where does that info come from ?<br /><br />starviego said:<br /><br /><b>Angela Lansbury claimed for years that their move to Ireland was to get her kids away from the drug scene. Yet in a 2014 interview, she admitted that a big reason for the move was their fear of Manson</b><br /><br />And I find that problematic. She says different things at different times. In the Radio Times in 2017,¬> <i>For Lansbury, any pain caused by her life in Hollywood was mostly a result of her children, Anthony and Deidre, becoming addicted to drugs, including heroin, in the 1960s. Worse, living in Malibu, Deidre had become involved with some members of the Manson Family, the cult that murdered the actress Sharon Tate and eight others.<br />“Everybody knew about Charles Manson – the family were living up there in the hills, you couldn’t be a resident and not know,” she recalls. “God, that was a terrible period.”<br />When their house burned down in 1970, Lansbury used it as an excuse to move her entire family to Cork, in Ireland, where she had holidayed as a child.</i> <br />This is confusing. Did everyone know about Charles Manson ? Which period is she talking about ? Wherever I find her talking about the period, it's the drugs that she's concerned with. The Manson part seems like a "spicer-upper" in retrospect. He only became publicly known when he was arrested for TLB. So which is it ?<br />I'm quite happy to acknowledge Dede ran with the Family all the way up to when her family left the USA, but in order to do that, there needs to be some kind of evidence that this was the case. And her name is conspicuous by its absence. You'd think that she would be mentioned by <i>someone</i>. You'd think she'd've turned up in "Death to pigs" or one of the Family, either at the time or subsequently would have mentioned her as being around. And as Tobias pointed out, she doesn't show up on any raids or arrests. I'd love to know where the Angela Lansbury note story comes from...grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.com