tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post7156566934981314089..comments2024-03-27T21:24:06.590-04:00Comments on The Manson Family Blog: A Reader's Rebuttal to George Stimson's Chapter on "Manson and the Law"Matthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comBlogger219125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-30736218972461752012021-09-26T11:42:24.511-04:002021-09-26T11:42:24.511-04:00equinox said:
Hi Krissy,
Yes, I agree w...equinox said:<br /><br /> <b>Hi Krissy,<br /><br /> Yes, I agree with you that the statement "shouldn't have been home that night" demands further explanation...In order for Sandy or any of the Family to know the details of Sharon's proposed whereabouts, there would have to have been contact between people at Cielo and Spahn</b><br /><br />More or less from the start, way back in August '69, it has been known that Sharon was meant to be staying over at the house of Sheilah Wells that night. Not long after, it became public knowledge. I think that's what Family and ex-Family members have been referring to when they say Sharon wasn't meant to be home that night. It's almost as though they were trying to cast the murder of a pregnant woman as "collateral damage" in their {Sandy's} "war." Trying to take the sting out of it.<br />In truth, however, I don't think any of the victims were specifically targetted. There's been a roaring trade over half a century, in reasons for every one of the Tate~LaBianca victims having been specifically singled out and most of them {except Leno LaBianca} are drug war based. That, from the beginning, the killers always said they didn't know the victims, I would say this rules out all and any drug burn theories and motives.grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-18449149107985659922015-06-13T23:27:27.748-04:002015-06-13T23:27:27.748-04:00Vermouth Brilliantine said...
"or come at th... Vermouth Brilliantine said...<br /><br />"or come at the expense of the 'native' population who in the UK & nations like France & Germany tend to feel boxed out, excluded, or as if their own culture and traditions are somehow undervalued in relation to those of new citizens"<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I find that most people I hear that speak about culture {regardless of their race or culture or nationality} speak of it as a fixed, unalterable and easy to define and describe 'thing.'<br />Well, it isn't. Over a period of time, it's pretty fluid.<br />If you look at the UK, the presence of the different {upper, middle and working} classes of the indigenous population meant that there was never such a 'thing' as British culture. Or English culture. Then on top of that, the different immigrants that have settled here over the last, even 60 years have brought aspects of their cultures and different parts have bled into what was already shifting here.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Vermouth Brilliantine said...<br /><br />"Our countries are going to have to work out a stable relationship between appeasing the guilt we feel over past sins"<br /><br /><br />Trouble is, the guilt that is felt is felt because those 'past sins' are real and encompassed real actions with real results, made certain countries very rich while destabilising others and those chickens have now come home to roost.<br />Kind of like, I believe, the way Charlie Manson's Mum's past actions came home to roost. Then Charlie's actions with the Family came home to roost. Some of the actions of some of the Family members parents came home to roost. The American governments various negative actions abroad have come home to roost. The sexualization of children is currently coming home to roost.<br />Pretty much everything at some point comes home to roost. And that coming home is rarely pretty.<br /><br /><br />grimtravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025774296829848608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-37740639958703826802015-06-02T22:14:11.234-04:002015-06-02T22:14:11.234-04:00Honest mistake...rock on with yo bad self xoxoHonest mistake...rock on with yo bad self xoxoPatty is Deadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07717777500117142160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-67895675727865399252015-06-02T22:14:04.194-04:002015-06-02T22:14:04.194-04:00Honest mistake...rock on with yo bad self xoxoHonest mistake...rock on with yo bad self xoxoPatty is Deadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07717777500117142160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-24271648336898449992015-06-02T22:13:53.511-04:002015-06-02T22:13:53.511-04:00Honest mistake...rock on with yo bad self xoxoHonest mistake...rock on with yo bad self xoxoPatty is Deadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07717777500117142160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-41949665756624041682015-06-01T05:52:11.636-04:002015-06-01T05:52:11.636-04:00"In the UK it's a combination of "po..."In the UK it's a combination of "post-colonial guilt" and economic helpessness. Post-WWII we saddled ourselves with a hugely expensive welfare state, and at the same time we stopped having children who would grow up, get jobs, and pay taxes to fund it. So to keep the whole welfare show rolling we've imported a population from elsewhere. What no-one here is willing to say out loud is that we cannot have a welfare state and a nationalized (socialized) health service without transformative mass immigration. (And that phrase is not an exaggeration - I live in East London, I'm right in the middle of it. I've watched it accelerating at an unbelievable rate in my lifetime. East London now is literally unrecognizable as being the same place I knew as a teenager - and I'm not an old man!)"<br /><br />Michael, my understanding is the situation is very similar in much of Western Europe, which you probably know. Australia has largely avoided it but things are getting a little similar as an ageing population of baby boomers and lower fertility rates amongst young (white) Australians has made raising immigration quotas necessary. Government census data shows this country is still nominally 90% white or European (or was in 2011 when the census was still taken). That is changing as higher and higher proportions of immigrants are coming from China India rather than European nations, the US or South Africa. We also have a welfare state to support but my understanding is it is not as overwhelmingly overextended as the UK NHS. <br /><br />White or white settler countries are going to have to work out for themselves how this is all going to work- the situation in the UK imo is dire and should be avoided; multiethnic immigration is probably unavoidable and has desirable consequences, but it should never be in service of unachievable goals- or come at the expense of the 'native' population who in the UK & nations like France & Germany tend to feel boxed out, excluded, or as if their own culture and traditions are somehow undervalued in relation to those of new citizens. Our countries are going to have to work out a stable relationship between appeasing the guilt we feel over past sins, managing the systems we have in place and the expectations of our societies, and ensuring that national identity & a sense of community aren't undervalued in service of imposing artificial values on people of all races & creeds. <br /><br />The rise of Sunni & Wahabbi extremism (i.e. ISIS, Al-Qaeda) & their appeal to alienated Muslim youth in Western countries is something Robert brings up & is very troubling; it's one of the outcomes of multiculturalism (juggling a much wider & more complex array of community demands & potential problems) which I am sure its pioneers post-WWII didn't anticipate. We're going to HAVE to learn how to juggle those problems, face up to them openly and responsibly, and contemplate whether continuing to throw bombs/soldiers at the Middle East or $$$ at 'moderate mosques' is the answer. Sorry if this sounds like a university essay but I am trying to express myself as intellectually & sensitively as I can, it's a very delicate topic of discussion but one which I have a great deal of interest in. Guida Diehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06881861444442344243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-12777137306991368962015-06-01T05:12:29.058-04:002015-06-01T05:12:29.058-04:00Robert, that 'JV team' sure are doing well...Robert, that 'JV team' sure are doing well over there. I wonder what is the total financial cost of all the training and materiel that the US has bestowed upon the Iraqi 'forces', only to have them run away and leave most of it in IS hands.<br /><br />The mystery for me is whether this civilisational suicide is conspiracy or incompetence.<br /><br />In the UK it's a combination of "post-colonial guilt" and economic helpessness. Post-WWII we saddled ourselves with a hugely expensive welfare state, and at the same time we stopped having children who would grow up, get jobs, and pay taxes to fund it. So to keep the whole welfare show rolling we've imported a population from elsewhere. What no-one here is willing to say out loud is that we cannot have a welfare state and a nationalized (socialized) health service without transformative mass immigration. (And that phrase is not an exaggeration - I live in East London, I'm right in the middle of it. I've watched it accelerating at an unbelievable rate in my lifetime. East London now is literally unrecognizable as being the same place I knew as a teenager - and I'm not an old man!)<br /><br />'Blacks, Browns and poor Whites' - do you imply that Blacks and Browns are inevitably poor, so the adjective is only required for Whites? Also, in the US 93.6% of enlisted soldiers have at least a high school diploma, compared to only 59.5% of the general population. Careful you don't end up sounding like the love-child of John Kerry and Michael Moore ;)MHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765688604319832245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-84796150645971076812015-06-01T04:16:33.668-04:002015-06-01T04:16:33.668-04:00Cindy Lee said...
A person hates & attacks oth...Cindy Lee said...<br />A person hates & attacks others for 1 of 3 reasons. 1) They want to be them 2) They hate themselves. 3) They see the other person as a threat.<br /><br /><br />Agree. These are the main problems i find when researching stuff. There always seems to be something in the way, like people are maybe clouded by their own baggageTerrapinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01767645828970423700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-78499109521663790662015-06-01T04:14:02.890-04:002015-06-01T04:14:02.890-04:00I would like to hear more from Sandy regarding: &...I would like to hear more from Sandy regarding: "Islam is rising" 1970<br /> <br />Obviously, Islam is NOT rising, BUT taking over the entire Middle East under the NEW "Islamic State banner."<br /> <br />Because Islam and "Muslim" go together like birds and a feather AND Black Muslim (referred to by Paul Watkins regarding his interpretation of Helter Skelter) are actually one and the same as Bugliosi's "BLACK" people in HIS "motive," I would truly appreciate any further clarification Sandy may wish to provide.<br /> <br />To me it is becoming more and more apparent - especially because the US President and the entire US government had NO clue that ISLAM would be on the rise, IF we abandoned our occupation in the Middle - East that little old Sandy Good has more intelligent intuition than possibly the entire Western World.<br /> <br />THUS, what the fuck are we giving our hard-earned tax dollars to a bunch of "glorified" welfare workers for ?<br /> <br />Why NOT just give Sandy a few millions to tell us how this whole thing is going to end - so we ALL can make an intelligent decision regarding the future of this once great nation.<br /> <br />Enough of this sending Blacks, Browns and poor Whites to die for some nimrod's demented political TRIP.<br /><br />Robert Hendricksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02880909248364077567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-53264295273046670882015-05-31T22:41:44.562-04:002015-05-31T22:41:44.562-04:00Michael,
I think you've nailed the motive. Th...Michael,<br />I think you've nailed the motive. There's nothing Manson related left to talk about. Time to move on to which author's father was the real Zodiac killer.orwhuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14689926449812436866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-76657724648035791722015-05-31T21:19:09.904-04:002015-05-31T21:19:09.904-04:00Each article would have to be written by someone w...Each article would have to be written by someone who firmly believes in that particular motive - so they really get behind it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-81288595803992560652015-05-31T21:09:53.228-04:002015-05-31T21:09:53.228-04:00"Kevin, Matt - I think it might take several ..."Kevin, Matt - I think it might take several hundred pages of debate before we could settle on the list of options to be included in the motives poll.<br /><br />I change my mind everyday. I used to think I knew what I thought before I started reading this site. Now all I know is that I think I don't know what I thought I knew."<br /><br />I understand Michael, I have changed my mind so many times and probably will again. I realize it would not be easy to decide on a list of motives - especially as so many people think that there was more than one motive so you would essentially have to cover all combinations. It could get too complex - perhaps just have the poll on primary motive.<br /><br />Matt - before the poll is run, you could do a series of articles on each motive, to layout the case for each. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-87255847664281493172015-05-31T21:01:07.773-04:002015-05-31T21:01:07.773-04:00I hate to chime in with my two cents again (well, ...I hate to chime in with my two cents again (well, not really) but that doesn't surprise me. While growing up my stepfather loathed aboriginals to the point he would change the channel if one came on TV, but one of his best customers and pals (we socialised together frequently as families) came from an aboriginal background. In his eyes this guy wasn't an aborigine because "he didn't rob people, break into cars, spit on white people, do all the stuff 'abos' do." <br /><br />It also reminds me of a news 'exclusive' I saw exposing which neighbourhood David Duke had just moved to (kinda like the one they did on Squeaky.. yech). They interviewed a black couple who lived in the area and they were incredibly surprised to hear he was who he was, because when their car broke down he gave them a hand getting it fixed (though maybe he just wanted them gone from his street). Race is a fucking complex issue and I've found most racists make exceptions on a daily basis, and often find ways to justify them to themselves & others- which shows that their hatred is often based on deeper things than simply "this guy has black skin therefore fuck HIM yo."Guida Diehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06881861444442344243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-39383237281140722842015-05-31T20:40:35.898-04:002015-05-31T20:40:35.898-04:00I've been a little lax this weekend about read... I've been a little lax this weekend about reading the blog comments. Damn, this post really garnered a lot of comments, more than we have ever had for a single post, I would guess. Everybody has just about covered anything I would have to contribute, well done. There is one thing I would like to relate regarding Vera's accusation implying that George is a raging racist.<br /><br /><br />While on tour, one evening Matt, George, Saint and myself found ourselves cruising up and down some main street looking for a place to eat dinner. After going blocks and blocks Matt said "pull in here, it's a deli and there's a parking place." I pulled in and parked right in front. A huge plus for the area! We all trooped in and sat down, looked at the menu and it wasn't until the waitress came to take our order and Matt asked for cheese on his sandwich that I learned, because the waitress told Matt no cheese, we were in a KOSHER deli. <br /><br /><br />I have no idea if George knew we were in a kosher deli when we walked in, actually all the men wearing yarmulke's should have clued me in but didn't. George did not spontaneously combust, at any rate, nor did he utter a word about us having chosen that place to eat either during or after our meal. None of discussed it at all.<br /><br /><br />So, if George is the raging racist that Vera would like to believe he is, then he's a piss-poor racist. The pastrami was excellent, BTW.<br />DebShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17093893870315262396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-39892856125558002862015-05-31T20:35:36.056-04:002015-05-31T20:35:36.056-04:00If it wasn't for Vera this conversation would ...If it wasn't for Vera this conversation would never have happened, and I'd never have heard of Bertrice Berry. Don't usually go in for stuff written by former talk show hosts (I'm a snob) but she wrote a book 'The Ties That Bind' which looks pretty interesting.<br /><br />And yeah humprat, two different videos. Stoner Van Dude should be on talkshows though.Guida Diehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06881861444442344243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-17634975287523949492015-05-31T20:18:41.225-04:002015-05-31T20:18:41.225-04:00Did you catch that... yousguys . I made a funny be...Did you catch that... yousguys . I made a funny because I'm southern and I said yousguys!<br /><br />Oh and btw To: St Circumstance SilverBullets are my weapon of choice as well...cheers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-71776453918636607742015-05-31T20:11:19.616-04:002015-05-31T20:11:19.616-04:00I would love to see that poll too.
Mark me down a...I would love to see that poll too.<br /><br />Mark me down as HS believer... there are interviews from what has to be a majority of the key, core, "family" members to back up MHO.<br /><br />Awhile back I was listening to, among others, the Brooks Poston and Paul Watkins interview on CieloDrive.com [a wonderful site indeed]. I came away with the same convictions that the most recent LVH interview just gave me. And that is, there were a wide range of insiders, family insiders mind you, that tell of the HS harbinger. <br /><br />And by wide range - which I think gives their accounts even greater weight because I think it shows the absences of any collaborated concoction of a story - I mean wide range because some of those telling of HS were actually involved in the murders some were trying or wanting to be involved in them, some were out of family and some wanted out. <br /><br />These folks were not all in the same "thought"... as CM would say, nor were they on the same path in life any more, but when asked they sure said the same thing about HS and CM. <br /><br />I need to compile the names of the family members whom have spoken out on HS. [or one of yousguys...lol that has been doing this stuff for years beyond me could post theirs for me..:)]<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-4820039176500007232015-05-31T19:07:08.455-04:002015-05-31T19:07:08.455-04:00Kevin, Matt - I think it might take several hundre...Kevin, Matt - I think it might take several hundred pages of debate before we could settle on the list of options to be included in the motives poll.<br /><br />I change my mind everyday. I used to think I knew what I thought before I started reading this site. Now all I know is that I think I don't know what I thought I knew.<br /><br />Information. It fucks everything up.MHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765688604319832245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-43745846555017674382015-05-31T18:50:29.681-04:002015-05-31T18:50:29.681-04:00Listening to LVH interview with Marvin Part on Cie...Listening to LVH interview with Marvin Part on Cielo should be a prerequisite for voting in this poll. Jeez!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-52255365366006377462015-05-31T18:42:49.453-04:002015-05-31T18:42:49.453-04:00@Michael '... until a group of enlightened tr...<br />@Michael '... until a group of enlightened trolls led by Vera Dreiser and Robin Olsen emerged from under a rock to tell everyone they were doing it all wrong and show them how it should be done.'<br /><br />Michael, LMAO. You have to give Vera some credit for making this the liveliest thread in a long time!!<br /><br />P.S. The beautiful little girl in your avatar must realise by now that her Dad is a complete nutter. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-36424823456711459142015-05-31T18:31:39.878-04:002015-05-31T18:31:39.878-04:00Kevin, that's not a bad idea. Thank you...Kevin, that's not a bad idea. Thank you...Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-42988407873167360352015-05-31T18:29:18.013-04:002015-05-31T18:29:18.013-04:00Has there ever been a poll on the site regarding m...Has there ever been a poll on the site regarding motive? I know for most people it would be subject to change - but you could maybe run a new poll every time there is a decent new book released to update it. Would be interested to see what % of people believe each of the motives.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-34698988770810717212015-05-31T18:16:31.181-04:002015-05-31T18:16:31.181-04:00The way I see it, the murders were clearly committ...The way I see it, the murders <i>were</i> clearly committed in a deranged effort to spark an all-out war between the believers in the Helter Skelter motive, and those who think Bugliosi invented it. Manson believed that the Skelterers had been in charge long enough, and would be defeated by the Bug-killers, but the Bug-Killers would not know how to rule unaided, until a group of enlightened trolls led by Vera Dreiser and Robin Olsen emerged from under a rock to tell everyone they were doing it all wrong and show them how it should be done.MHNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765688604319832245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-72399488585122837972015-05-31T18:04:32.910-04:002015-05-31T18:04:32.910-04:00Carol- any time :)Carol- any time :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10291550902325920904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-89166971331899702962015-05-31T18:02:06.394-04:002015-05-31T18:02:06.394-04:00Saint, thanks for your reply.Saint, thanks for your reply.CarolMRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06357698369178272616noreply@blogger.com