tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post8604108849687725691..comments2024-03-28T23:53:16.262-04:00Comments on The Manson Family Blog: From Guesthouse To Parking Area: Steven's StrollMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06766282574442161929noreply@blogger.comBlogger139125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-10358873433359935402023-07-01T21:42:32.123-04:002023-07-01T21:42:32.123-04:00A public service notice to all: in case you have n...A public service notice to all: in case you have not already done so, you may wish to check out the Facebook page of George E. Smith, who has been collecting Sharon Tate and Cielo Drive items all of his life. <br /><br />A few items on his site which recently were shared: a video of the very rare Cielo maid's bedroom and bathroom, the service porch area, and the kitchen. This was shot by a guy apparently in the early 1990's. Here's the link:<br />https://youtu.be/a_KRWMnfEoY<br /><br />Also at George's page is an excellent interview with Dennis Hearst. It should be remembered that Dennis delivered Abigail Folger's bicycle to Cielo on the night of the murders. <br /><br />Additionally, George recently said that after a lifetime of collecting all things Sharon and Cielo, he will be selling off his collection soon. He says as he is getting older, he would like his collection to go to good folks who will appreciate and care for it.Torquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00444301737391992929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-75134239837805847872023-06-30T11:54:14.414-04:002023-06-30T11:54:14.414-04:00Rich, if you are able and have the time, can you t...Rich, if you are able and have the time, can you tell if it was possible to make a U-turn up there at the closed gate, so that if one drive up there, they could turn around and drive back down?<br /><br />Was it possible, in your estimation? If so, how hard?<br /><br />There's some fogginess in my mind about whether the 4 Manson intruders drove up, cut the lines, and went back down the long private drive forward or backward. Common sense tells me that it was be far better to make a U-turn and drive down normally.<br /><br />I've heard only that they backed down, but that would have been very tough on that driveway, and must have been pretty dark because the moon (declining crescent) did not rise until after 1 AM.shoegazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14073693271676337152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-38659094091197149772023-06-30T10:58:24.982-04:002023-06-30T10:58:24.982-04:00Thanks for your involvement, Rich.Thanks for your involvement, Rich.shoegazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14073693271676337152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-10196450885698395052023-06-29T20:22:19.595-04:002023-06-29T20:22:19.595-04:00Thanks again, Rich. I appreciate it.Thanks again, Rich. I appreciate it.Torquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00444301737391992929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-83267139168441721962023-06-29T20:11:06.810-04:002023-06-29T20:11:06.810-04:00The photo was taken sometime in the Fall of 1982; ...The photo was taken sometime in the Fall of 1982; I remember that it was close to the beginning of the school year. I took several photos that day, but the others were mostly angles that had been covered pretty well by other people over the years and weren’t particularly exciting. I do recall I pressed my back against the gate and snapped a photo of the next house down; it showed just how close in proximity the next door neighbors were. I posted the embankment photo many years ago on the Sharon Tate page of the Findadeath Forum so I imagine it was lifted from there at some point. As I mentioned, I was happy to see it here and I appreciate your nice response. If I can find the other photos I will let you know, maybe they can be of some use to you. Take care. RichUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11019283418605252424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-24939626259833849952023-06-29T17:35:05.032-04:002023-06-29T17:35:05.032-04:00Unknown, thanks for commenting on this post, and o...Unknown, thanks for commenting on this post, and of course thanks for the photo. Unfortunately so many photos on the internet are not credited, but thanks for making the trip to Cielo and posting this interesting view of the property. Can you provide a date for the photo? Torquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00444301737391992929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-1206896107742497542023-06-29T10:04:32.576-04:002023-06-29T10:04:32.576-04:00Regarding the photo from the embankment that is us...Regarding the photo from the embankment that is used to illustrate the killers’ point of view, I took that picture myself when I was a senior in high school. We were on a family trip to Los Angeles; I bugged my parents until they agreed take me to Cielo Drive. At that point I’d been following the case for a few years and was beyond excited to reach the crime scene. I remember how quiet it was, without a soul in sight. Just wanted to leave a comment. I enjoy visiting this blog and it’s nice to see someone making use of the photograph. Take care everyone.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11019283418605252424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-47013437474521947112023-06-28T11:22:49.173-04:002023-06-28T11:22:49.173-04:00David:
Not a word had been mentioned about the “b...David:<br /><br /><b>Not a word had been mentioned about the “broken fence”.</b><br /><br />I think this *is* a good observation. Nothing definitive, but it *is* illuminating--a sort of reality check on how young males might act in a situation in which they clearly screwed up in an embarrassing way, and seek to obscure their part in it.shoegazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14073693271676337152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-68480966523736294312023-06-27T23:41:26.451-04:002023-06-27T23:41:26.451-04:00I had an interesting event occur over the weekend....I had an interesting event occur over the weekend. I asked my second cousin who is about Parent’s age to watch my house and feed my dogs while we went to a wedding up on the mountain. When I returned he acted as all was well. Never mentioned a problem even when asked. <br /><br />The next day I went to make coffee. The grinder was messed up. The coffee maker was too and had clearly overflown. The circuit was tripped-off where both appliances plugged in and upon further examination there was a mass of coffee soaked paper towels in the outside garbage. <br /><br />He had opened the electrical panel in the basement and flipped a couple but simply turned off then on the clock on other appliances. <br /><br />Not a word had been mentioned about the “broken fence”. <br /><br />It gave me a better insight into This event and how likely the fence was much like my coffee maker and not something to fess up to. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551377673977145628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-37730528286807122642023-06-11T07:55:38.602-04:002023-06-11T07:55:38.602-04:00Shoegazer said:
“This leads me to think that some...Shoegazer said:<br /><br />“This leads me to think that some people think that the knives found at Barker Ranch may have had some connection to the Cielo knives. And maybe they do.”<br /><br />“Is this something you've ever heard/read about, ToF?”<br /><br />They did not keep their knives after Cielo. They knew that Beausoleil was caught with his knife and clothes and knew they needed to dispose of them.<br /><br />Watson and DeCarlo said that their where about 10 (fixed) Buck knives at Spahn and DeCarlo said that when he first saw the Buck folding knife it was the first one he had ever seen.<br /><br />The reason I mentioned the article by DebS was because it shows and lists the types of knives that they were carrying. The Buck 110 folding knives may have been an adequate choice if they were cutting neck arteries and getting/dressing but their were better knife choices.<br /><br />I recommend taking up David’s offer. If not, they notice the similarity of the would size of JS and the front of ST. Also notice the wound locations between JS and ST. With just a couple of minor (possible) exceptions, they are all likes inflicted by Watson and probably using the same knife.TabOrFrescahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18258408555227867498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-43254419320517947542023-06-09T23:16:11.040-04:002023-06-09T23:16:11.040-04:00Shoe asked: Is there any part of any narrative ver...Shoe asked: Is there any part of any narrative version or subsequent testimony, interview, article, or book, that mentions what happened to the knives after Cielo? <br /><br />Yes, Atkins, Kasabian and Watson in his book say they were thrown out the window of the car. Kasabian says one hit a tree/bush. <br /><br />According to each witness each woman was told, in some fashion, to get a knife and go to the car. Somehow, they were on the front passenger seat when Kasabian got in the car and Watson told her to wrap them in something and throw them out the window if the cops stopped them- who put them there is an interesting, perhaps red headed, question. <br /><br />Each woman left the car with a knife. Only VB suggests in his book that there were 4 knives because of the Parent attack. But he apparently lost sight of the idea Katie gave her knife to Watson before the attack and thus needed to go get Kasabian's knife, later. <br /><br />Kasabian testified she threw two knives out the window. <br /><br />As an aside to previous comments: when I wrote Miss Scarlet I read way too much about knife wounds and forensics. I even spoke to a retired forensic investigator at length. I am happy to discuss this off forum but I will say there are so many variables involved in a knife wound that when I brought up the knife wound anomalies mentioned in that post his reaction was 'so what' and then went on to explain.<br />Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551377673977145628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-7191283775022191222023-06-09T22:25:15.745-04:002023-06-09T22:25:15.745-04:00ToF:
I just thought to ask a question based on th...ToF:<br /><br />I just thought to ask a question based on this:<br /><br /><b>Again look at the post by DebS, previously mentioned, that lists the Barker knives and shows them in a picture.</b><br /><br />This leads me to think that some people think that the knives found at Barker Ranch may have had some connection to the Cielo knives. And maybe they do.<br /><br />But I'm now wondering: if the Cielo killers purposely tried to get rid of their clothes and the gun to sever connection to the crime scene, is there any reason to think that they decided to keep the knives?<br /><br />Is there any part of any narrative version or subsequent testimony, interview, article, or book, that mentions what happened to the knives after Cielo? We know that one was left at the scene, but what happened to the others? <br /><br />Given the implied rational that they wanted to get rid of physical evidence that could tie them to the crime, I'm inclined to speculate that they also dumped the knives. The thinking that they should dump the gun would tend to include the knives, as well.<br /><br />Is this something you've ever heard/read about, ToF?shoegazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14073693271676337152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-84492234192119336282023-06-09T11:03:37.269-04:002023-06-09T11:03:37.269-04:00Torque:
...Jay Sebring had a one half inch stab w...Torque:<br /><br /><b>...Jay Sebring had a one half inch stab wound to his shoulder. This single wound was the smallest, and shallow, making it a complete outlier from all of his other stab wounds.</b><br /><br />I think that a complete, in-depth study of the shape, depth, and direction of the wound channels would go a long way to informing us several *likely* positions that the victim is in when receiving the wounds, and where the attacker likely was in relation to the victim.<br /><br />This would be very laborious because there are many possibilities for both the victim and the attacker, and we'd also need to know right-handed/handed attack, and grip (thrust or hammer). Maybe other stuff, too; I'd have to think about it.<br /><br />Gosh. That's a hell of a lot, isn't it? I should get started with making some tables, but...<br /><br />I'm thinking that if I were to start, I'd start on Sebring since both the narrative and the apparent position he was found make it perhaps the simplest case.<br /><br />At the other extreme, Tate might be the hardest, since she has many more knife wounds than can be justified by the scope of the "official narrative" and the apparent shape and location of the wounds could easily be accounted for by her actual enduring at least two separate attacks: those on the back, and the 4 (is it?) to the region of the heart. This might also partly explain her blood type at the doorway.<br /><br />The problem is that there's such a lot of evidence and testimony that you'd almost have to gather it and correlate the evidence and the testimony in an easily referenced form. E.g., the gate button. Every photo, and all testimony and description by anyone with experience of it. The testimony might be sorted for the date it was taken and for source. Credibility of source can also be evaluated somewhat. But very little should be excluded out-of-hand.<br /><br />This is truly daunting, and it proves to myself that I'm actually a dilettante killing time... <:^(<br /><br />Have you ever noticed that if you mention to someone outside of the TLB groups that you're interested in the details of the crime, they start to look at you differently? :^)<br /><br />I have a friend who's an oncologist, and once he told me conversationally that he's noticed that when people first meet him and ask him what he does for a living and he answers, "I'm an oncologist," they get real quite and no longer want to talk as much. He said that once he was asked this at a dinner party, while at table with maybe 10-12 others, and the entire table got real quiet real fast.<br /><br />Funny story!<br />shoegazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14073693271676337152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-51716885149978554042023-06-09T07:40:18.086-04:002023-06-09T07:40:18.086-04:00Shoe, I don't know if you brought it up earlie...Shoe, I don't know if you brought it up earlier, but let's also remember that Jay Sebring had a one half inch stab wound to his shoulder. This single wound was the smallest, and shallow, making it a complete outlier from all of his other stab wounds.Torquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00444301737391992929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-8504213285737523452023-06-08T21:17:37.317-04:002023-06-08T21:17:37.317-04:00ToF:
Paul Crockett said that the girls at Barker ...ToF:<br /><br /><b>Paul Crockett said that the girls at Barker would be naked with the exception of their knifes strapped to their waists even while having sex.<br /><br />In chapter 18 of Paul Watkins’ book:<br />“Then Sadie, Snake, and Brenda appeared. They were all dressed in Levi’s and wore buck knives strapped to their waists.”</b>To the best of your knowledge, which buck knives that are strapped to one's body are we talking about:<br /><br /><a href="https://www.discountcutlery.net/BU110S-Buck-Model-110-Lockback-Pocket-Knife-Belt-Sheath-Leather_p_32688.html" rel="nofollow">110 belt sheath></a><br /><br />or <br /><br /><a href="javascript:void(0);" rel="nofollow">Tate 5</a><br /><br />and <br /><br /><a href="https://i.imgur.com/XozbBc9.jpg" rel="nofollow">Tate 14</a><br /><br />Hmmmm.<br /><br />What does this say about the sequence of attack as per Frykowski and Tate?<br /><br />Lessee...<br /><br />According to the official narrative, Watson killed Frykowski, finished off Folger, then went back to the house and killed (or helped kill) Tate.<br /><br />The Frykowski wounds were never more than 1 1/2" skin openings, and about 3 1/2" in depth. Then we'd need to study Folger and see which wounds were likely caused by Watson, and we'd expect that they'd be similar to Frykowski <i>unless he changed knives</i>.<br /><br />Then on to Tate, and it would seem that the wounds would be similar to Frykowski/Folger, but some of the serious ones were not. They were 1"in skin puncture, and up to 5" in depth.<br /><br />Longer and thinner.<br /><br />This implies either a different person wielding a different knife, or Watson changing knives before killing Tate.<br /><br />What do *you* think?<br /><br />Fun to try to figure out, huh?<br /><br /><br />shoegazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14073693271676337152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-33201224450375229782023-06-08T20:20:47.110-04:002023-06-08T20:20:47.110-04:00Shoegazer said:
“only Frykowski's autopsy rep...Shoegazer said:<br /><br />“only Frykowski's autopsy report mentions depth, and not always. The depth I saw was no greater than 3 1/2 inches.”<br /><br />Tates wound depth is described in Noguchi’s testimony.<br /><br />The 3 left chest wounds, below the breast, were 4 inches deep.<br /><br />Wound 5, upper right abdominal, was 4-5 inches deep<br /><br />Wound 14, right upper arm, was 5 inches deep.<br /><br />4 of the 8 back wounds were 2 inches deep.<br /><br />Refer to Vol66, Manson-TLB, pages 8702 -8710.<br /><br />When I mention guard that is not necessarily the same as hilt. A guard is necessary so your hand doesn’t slide off the handle, such as when sweating or covered in blood. I don’t believe any of the testimony, photos, or transcripts describe marks next to the wounds that are made by the guard (if the knife had one) or by the hilt. These marks are not made when the blade is longer than the depth of the wound. One or more of the knives had a 5+ inch blade. <br /><br />Clip-point blades may be sharpened on the dull side for a second edge of 1.5-2 inches. So the same knife can create double-edge and single-edge wounds.TabOrFrescahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18258408555227867498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-1917259950346483152023-06-08T20:04:22.231-04:002023-06-08T20:04:22.231-04:00DeCarlo also mentioned somewhere (interview, testi...DeCarlo also mentioned somewhere (interview, testimony?) that they had purchased several German bayonets at an army surplus store. <br /><br />I believe he also testified that he recognized EX 39- the knife in the chair- because it was a folding Buck knife and I believe he said he did because those were rare. <br /><br />Atkins told Caruso/Caballero, that the taped knife was stuck in a log at the ranch suggesting to me it did not 'fold'. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551377673977145628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-26847042218501000642023-06-08T19:27:10.877-04:002023-06-08T19:27:10.877-04:00Shoegazer said:
“As to the knife(s) used at Cielo...Shoegazer said:<br /><br />“As to the knife(s) used at Cielo, it's hard to tell, …”<br /><br />“I base my speculation that most, if not all, wounds at Cielo were made by large folding knives of the Buck 110 type …”<br /><br />“Are you aware of any additional solid sources about the nature of the knife wounds, that might help us guess what sort of knives were used?”<br /><br />There are a number of things that may help but nothing that is solid like a fingerprint.<br /><br />Noguchi in Vol 68 Manson-TLB:<br /><br />Page 8930<br />“and I believe I am quite cautious not to express an opinion when I am not able to back my opinion in a scientific manor”.<br /><br />Page 8941<br />“ one to one and half inches wide and at least five inches long”<br /><br />Page 8856<br /><br />“In my opinion, the 102 stab wounds were caused by a similar type of stabbing weapon.”<br /><br />Page 8859<br /><br />“Just to give an example, it is something strong that was deliver the same wound pattern as would a bayonet “<br /><br />Page 8887<br />“and the tip of the knife to here, that is, where the double edge disappears, may be a distance of 1 1/2 inches”<br /><br />Watson in “Will You Die for Me”:<br /><br />Page 64:<br />“We also made a number of trips down to an army-surplus store in the Valley for supplies and weapons, especially knives, and it was at this point that we bought the Buck knives and the chrome- plated bayonet, later put to such hideous use. On the first of these trips, while we were carrying all of Linda's $5,000 in crisp new $100 bills, …”<br /><br />Page 73<br />“When we were all gathered at the car, Charlie handed me a .45 automatic pistol. He also had the chrome-plated bayonet we'd bought at the army-surplus store at the same time we'd purchased the Buck knives used at the Tate house.” [Note the bayonet was used on the second night]<br /><br />Page 68<br /><br />There were three knives — one of them the one that Katie would end up with, with a broken handle that was taped”<br /><br />Page 72<br />“Katie kept complaining that her hand hurt — her knife hadn't had a proper handle and she'd kept hitting bones when she struck”<br /><br />Kasabian brought the folding knife to Spahn along with $5000 and acid tabs. <br /><br />“This knife was owned, originally, by Linda Kasabian and is a folding buck knife. It was found blade up in a chair located in the living room of the house.”<br /><br />https://www.mansonblog.com/2017/02/miss-scarlet-in-living-room-with-knife.html?m=1<br /><br />Paul Crockett said that the girls at Barker would be naked with the exception of their knifes strapped to their waists even while having sex.<br /><br />In chapter 18 of Paul Watkins’ book: <br />“Then Sadie, Snake, and Brenda appeared. They were all dressed in Levi’s and wore buck knives strapped to their waists.”<br /><br />Again look at the post by DebS, previously mentioned, that lists the Barker knives and shows them in a picture.TabOrFrescahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18258408555227867498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-39257577540919163962023-06-08T14:17:43.878-04:002023-06-08T14:17:43.878-04:00Torque:
Thanks a lot for the reference!!!Torque:<br /><br />Thanks a lot for the reference!!!shoegazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14073693271676337152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-74171300266525444192023-06-08T14:12:48.637-04:002023-06-08T14:12:48.637-04:00Shoe, to find out more on John, please check out D...Shoe, to find out more on John, please check out David's post from 2016 on Steve Parent. You will also find a photo of John in that post. I'm unable to link to it, but if you pull up the posts on Steve Parent you will see it among the list. Torquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00444301737391992929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-18308430663264386222023-06-08T13:24:32.604-04:002023-06-08T13:24:32.604-04:00Shoe asked: Is Lefevre the guy he called from Ciel...Shoe asked: Is Lefevre the guy he called from Cielo? <br /><br />No, he called Jerrold David Friedman aka David Gerrold who wrote the Trouble With Tribbles. <br /><br />For Steven Earl Parent,<br />with love. Sleep well, old friend.<br />You got the job done.<br /><br />Gerrold, David. When HARLIE Was One: Release 2.0 . BenBella Books, Inc.. Kindle Edition. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551377673977145628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-86189685488677410402023-06-08T13:06:16.846-04:002023-06-08T13:06:16.846-04:00Torque:
We need to remember that Steve approached...Torque:<br /><br /><b>We need to remember that Steve approached his friend John Lefevre about accompanying him for that drive up to Beverly Hills. John of course declined, leaving just Steve with his clock radio to make that final trip.</b><br /><br />Torque, I am trying to remember anything about someone going up to Cielo with Parent? Is Lefevre the guy he called from Cielo? I can recall reading the testimony of the guy he called, but cannot remember his name.<br /><br />Where did the info about someone being offered a chance to go up with Parent to Cielo come from?shoegazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14073693271676337152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-56365920591801926342023-06-08T11:21:42.453-04:002023-06-08T11:21:42.453-04:00ToF:
Thanks for additional responses. This has b...ToF:<br /><br />Thanks for additional responses. This has been a really good exchange from my POV.<br /><br />As to the knife(s) used at Cielo, it's hard to tell, and I base my speculation that most, if not all, wounds at Cielo were made by large folding knives of the Buck 110 type on the autopsy reports that describe wound depth, blade configuration (two edges or one edge), and "length" of wound, which I take to be the measurement of the wound opening in the skin of the victim.<br /><br />Separately, I consider how the killers would have carried the weapons onto the Cielo property. It's very clumsy and accident prone to carry an unsheathed fixed blade knife, like the Buck hunting knives you mention. So while it's possible for them to carry these while going up the hillside past the gate, it's also far easier to carry a clasp knife and open it up before using.<br /><br />To counter that idea, however, I sorta recall that driving over the knives were in a sort of bundle, and that someone (Kasabian?) passed them out. This makes sense that they may have been fixed blades, else why not just get clasp knives at Spahn, put them in your pocket there?<br /><br />So briefly this morning I quick-scanned the autopsy reports, and while it was easy to find that most reported the "length" of wound (thru the skin, I currently assume) as mostly 1 1/2 inches, only Frykowski's autopsy report mentions depth, and not always. The depth I saw was no greater than 3 1/2 inches. Combined with a single edged blade configuration, it sounded to me like a folding clasp knife.<br /><br />Also, assuming a blade guard (hilt) of a fixed blade knife, any forceful stabs probably would have been stopped by the hilt, giving a full blade length wound depth. Most fixed blades a a lot longer than 3 1/2 inches, in my experience.<br /><br />Are you aware of any additional solid sources about the nature of the knife wounds, that might help us guess what sort of knives were used?<br /><br />So far as military blades, I never read anywhere about that possibility.<br /><br />Great, informative discussion!!!shoegazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14073693271676337152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-58682444653930264192023-06-08T08:54:25.387-04:002023-06-08T08:54:25.387-04:00Shoegazer said:
“This is a decent description of ...Shoegazer said:<br /><br />“This is a decent description of the Buck knives that the participants testified to. <br /><br />Buck 110 Hunter”<br /><br />“We'd need to consider which hand held the knife, and whether the grip was a hammer grip or a thrust grip.”<br /><br />The “Buck 110 Hunter” is a good and popular knife. If the major Cielo wounds were made by a knife like this, with no guard, I’d like to be shown how. <br /><br />The military would not have issued the “Buck 110” as a knife that may have to be used in hand-to-hand combat.<br /><br />During WWII, the US Navy issued knives like the MK2 KA-BAR and knives made in Camillus, NY. The USN Camillus NY knife, had a blade that was 6.5+ inches in length, 1 1/8 inches at its widest, and 1/8 inch thick. It also was sharp for 1.5+ inches on the dull side. It had a guard and a decent handle.<br /><br />The Buck 119 and Buck 120 are knives that are closer to combat knives than the Buck 110. A knife guard and a good handle are important.<br /><br />DebS posted a list of the knives that were found at Barker. A number of larger blade buck knives are listed. Also listed is: “Solingen, Germany “Arkansas Toothpick”. A knife like this or a shorter WWII bayonet may have also been an option.<br /><br />https://www.mansonblog.com/2022/12/the-manson-family-knives.html?m=1<br /><br />For myself a knife guard is important for the execution of the type major fatal wounds found.TabOrFrescahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18258408555227867498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8171370990642927748.post-92075597346221415182023-06-08T08:02:51.360-04:002023-06-08T08:02:51.360-04:00TorF, I would also agree that at 18 years of age i...TorF, I would also agree that at 18 years of age it would be really interesting to have possible contact with the Beautiful People at Cielo, especially as bragging rights.<br /><br />We need to remember that Steve approached his friend John Lefevre about accompanying him for that drive up to Beverly Hills. John of course declined, leaving just Steve with his clock radio to make that final trip.<br /><br />Also we will do well to remember the phone conversation Steve had while at the guest house at 11:25PM. Garretson heard this, and was later able to describe in detail to police that Steve made a big thing about the fact that he was at the Polanski residence. That said, the bragging rights started that very night.Torquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00444301737391992929noreply@blogger.com