One of his essays, The Mind and Motives of Charles Manson, drew a lot of media attention due to its subject matter. You can find copies of the pages below, excerpted from the Columbine Report. His teacher graded it and handed it back. But then he wrote another essay - just a few weeks before the shootings - that was rather disturbing to Ms Kelly. It was a fictional piece where in a lone gunman goes on a killing spree. The subject matter and foul language used unnerved his teacher so much that she refused to grade it before she could sit down and talk with him and his parents about it. During the conference, when the story was addressed, Dylan excused it as being "just a story".
Original story here
Thanks RH!
YES, this is from the infamous Dylan Klebold who with his buddy shot-up Columbine High School - which ignited the School / Student WARS.
ReplyDeleteSo how come NO body like Diane Sawyer, Michael Moore or Vincent Bugliosi wants / wanted to talk about this Klebold / Manson association ?
Cause the GUN is still smoking !
Also see this PDFInfluences on the Ideology of Eric Harris by Peter Langman, Ph.D.
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting that link, Matt. I truly doubt that Eric Harris ever read Hobbes or Nietzsche. He may have seen their names in articles he read on Hitler, or heard mention of their philosophies in a classroom once or twice, but I doubt he was much interested in studying their writings.
ReplyDeleteHarris was a sociopath and a major league hypocrite. He couldn't truly decry freedom of speech because he was so actively involved in putting his rage down on paper. I don't believe he took his own life to fulfill some belief that he had to die because it was meant to be. I think he shot himself because he knew his days as a free person was over and he did not want to be held accountable for his horrible actions. He hated people he saw as mentally defective, but he was the most mentally defective person on earth the day he took his rampage out on innocent people.
Groove, I totally agree. I don't think he could've pronounced Nietzsche...
ReplyDeleteGroove,
ReplyDeleteA magnificent moment of clarity.
Well done.
Hey, EVERYBODY don't YOU feel MORE safe & secure with the "authorities" withholding such information until YOU were all grown up and could handle it.
ReplyDeleteLast night I saw a doc on the "KILLING" of Medgar Evers and HIS wife said when the police finally came (HIS body lay bloodied in their front yard) she was so enraged at Whitey that she thought - if I only had a machine gun I would KILL em ALL.
SO when are ALL the "psycho" BLACK women (who would KILL our beloved WHITE police officers) going to come out of the woodwork ?
Do you think when the F.B.I. (within the 1st few days) saw Klebold's "writings" it even occurred to THEM to contact Bugliosi OR me?
I remember Bugliosi once said to Merrick. "Of course, YOU don't know ALL I know and I don't know ALL YOU know.
BUT now I think - YOU Manson bloggers KNOW more than Bugliosi and Merrick ever KNEW.
I thought Moore did mention Charlie in Bowling for Columbine..,
ReplyDeleteMaybe not. He did interview Marilyn Manson though.
I had never heard MM speak before. I don't even know one song he sings. Too heavy for me. I always kind of assumed he was more or less a flake of one kind or another
But in my opinion MManson comes across as the most thoughtful and intelligent person that Moore speaks to in the entire documentary.
He alone - when asked what he would have done differently with those kids- says...
" I would have listened to them"
Someone should have
I agree, St. Someone should have listened. Sometimes that's all it takes to diffuse an angry teen. Someone to pay a little attention and compliment their positive attributes. Something they may not have gotten from their piers.
ReplyDeleteST & Suze: Back in 75 when the MANSON film opened in Frisco, Stan Atkins interviewed me in front of a theater and asked what I hoped the film would accomplish. I said "Maybe parents will start to listen to their children."
ReplyDeleteI also remember Bruce Davis said in response to my comment - "Someone once told me the only necessary word is "help" - that "Boy, if someone has to say "help" nobody is listening.
So I think, nobody is listening because they are too busy talking.
AND let's be honest, until YOUR kid is killed, it's NOT your concern.
BTW: I thought the same about Mairlyn Manson until I read the same thing YESTERDAY.
He seems to be a bright guy.
ReplyDelete"Once in awhile you get shown the light in the strangest of places when you look at them right"
Instead of listening to Marilyn Manson's music read his lyrics, he is very bright and insightful.
ReplyDeleteI just read the article on Eric Harris and I get the feeling from Harris' quotes that he was writing for a future audience and was trying to as audacious as possible. In all actuality these boys were most likely depressed, especially the follower Dylan Klebold.
ReplyDeleteSAINT, I think WE let MM's looks and public image influence our perception of HIM, before listening to HIM.
ReplyDeleteAND I think adults and parents do exactly that same mistake regarding children and especially teenagers.
I think YOU could do a great expose on this Klebold / Manson connection. BUT there is so much more - even a video both KILLERS did just before the final act. Something to think about?
BTW - Michael Moore was ONLY trying to USE this horrible event to support HIS GUN Control fetish and the Manson KILLINGS, with knives, would have disparaged HIS entire movie purpose.
Robert..gun control fetish ? Really ? Voice of reason IMO.
DeleteSt Circumstance said...
ReplyDelete"I thought Moore did mention Charlie in Bowling for Columbine..,
Maybe not. He did interview Marilyn Manson though.
I had never heard MM speak before. I don't even know one song he sings. Too heavy for me. I always kind of assumed he was more or less a flake of one kind or another
But in my opinion MManson comes across as the most thoughtful and intelligent person that Moore speaks to in the entire documentary.
He alone - when asked what he would have done differently with those kids- says...
" I would have listened to them"
Someone should have"
Last night the only interview Dylan Klebold's mother gave to British television aired, Interestingly, when the journalist asked if, with hindsight, would she have done anything differently regarding Dylan, she replied that she would have tried to listen more.
Here's the link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-35579746
It's an interesting thing, because it shows even my own prejudice.
ReplyDeleteMManson grew up about 6 miles from where I live now. When I first moved here from NJ about 20 years ago I worked in a Restaraunt with a girl who dated one of the guys in the band. Although I never saw MManson there, two other guys in the band would come in regularly. The waitress that one of them was dating always had to pay their tab. They had colored hair and wore old dirty clothes. Never a dime between them. I had just moved here and didn't get it at all. I played 45 seconds of one song and decided they were talentless scumbags.
A little judgemental huh?
So nobody felt more stupid or surprised to learn MManson is insightful, thoughtful and intelligent - at least about current events and world history I heard him speak to.
As for the music lol. I tried again and I still am not there yet. I can't understand the words to give you an opinion lol
:)
I guess the lesson here is: IF the elder "establishment" does NOT listen, then eventually a documentary filmmaker will.
ReplyDeleteBTW - I find it SO fascinating how years later Eric & Klebold brought "Natural Born Killers" into THEIR Manson Family Story. NOW, this has got to be incorporated into the "Last Manson Movie."
AND thanks "Mr. B" - seems like Helter Skelter (the book) will keep the most incredible story ever told ALIVE forever.
Thanks bucpaul!
ReplyDeletebeauders said...
ReplyDeleteIn all actuality these boys were most likely depressed, especially the follower Dylan Klebold.
beauders, I couldn't agree more. Nothing is worse for a person suffering from depression than no one to listen to them. They are forced to stay in their own heads and the consequences can be devastating.
PENNY LANE: Not sure what IMO is, but Clem articulates the GUN / PENIS thing in MANSON 1973.
ReplyDeleteOf course, the JUDGE thought HE was functioning barely above the animal level.
ST. - Bruce also said: "They're reactive behind being BETRAYED."
Of course, the greatest betrayal ANY parent ever committed was to program their son for "peace" and then shove the Vietnam WAR right up HIS ass.
Robert....last nut popped perhaps.?...what does Clem and dick have to with a couple of fucked up gun totting morons ..im flummoxed ...enlighten me please...
DeleteRobert
ReplyDeleteAre you fucking losing your remaining chips? The Manson/Klebold connection? The only connection is that a mentally sick young man idolized BUG's fantasy version of Charles Manson. There is no other connection so why would they talk about it?
EXACTLY "COL" and The "BUG's" version is getting MORE people KILLED.
ReplyDeleteLike Bernie Madoff CM walked into prison (the last time) a "hero."
This isn't rocket science. How could YOU see the importance of "Natural Born Killers" and "APT Pupil" and NOW not SEE "relevance" right in front of YOU.
Some folks become SO well educated in one specific direction, they develop an extreme case of tunnel-vision, to the extent they can SEE nothing beyond THEIR focused scope.
That's why God created mirrors, so we could SEE what others SEE.
So tell me what I am supposed to see besides the abject state of mental health in this country....
ReplyDeleteAnd fuckloads of guns...whats the deal with the US and guns??...it must be a scary place to live..
DeleteWhy THE big SCARY LETTERS then little tiny quiet ones? Been FOLLOWING this Blog FOR AGes aND don't GeT IT?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAlso WTF as a luddite am I doing wrong that everything posts twice or is there an echo?
ReplyDeleteBoy wonder ur probably hitting your back button right?
ReplyDeleteCheers ta,it's probably that and the fact I'm working of a phone :-o.
DeleteI could of swore we covered this once already ?
ReplyDeleteI could of swore we covered this once already ?
ReplyDeleteLol that's unintentionally funny William xo
ReplyDeleteI notice in the essay Atkins is omitted in the Family introductions. I take it because her background is not that of a homecoming queen. So, yeah, it's a regurgitation of the popular myth of good kids gone bad.
ReplyDeleteThe usual teenage fascination in pages of detail about the murders gruesomeness.I guess because it is the ultimate taboo and a big 'fuck you' to grown-ups everywhere.
Mark E Smith of The Fall once wrote "serial killers are a bore". He wasnt far wrong. In fiction they are some of the most witty, creative and intelligent characters you will meet. However, in real life they are most often about power and sex. I suspect even Zodiac had an erection when killing, so its not just about having to take the lid off of your pen.
Here's where Manson is different, he was scratching a different itch.
I was always intrigued that Jeffrey Dahmer used to watch and re-watched the bit in Return of the Jedi where the Emperor is using that electricty from his fingers to zap Skywalker.
It's Bugliosi's portrayal of the power of Manson to have others do is bidding that is attractive to a lonesome misunderstood teen.
Lastly, it's not just about listening. Best advice I received is people aren't going to come to you; you have to get in amongst it. Dressing like Neo from The Matrix and being an expert on murders aint gonna win you much company. Team sports, musical instruments, book club, chess club, part time work, you gotta get amongst people to have a grasp of the rules of the game. As Lou Reed once wrote: life's not fair but it can be good.
christopher butche said...
ReplyDeleteMark E Smith of The Fall once wrote "serial killers are a bore". He wasnt far wrong.
I feel the same way.
Ted Bundy - boring
The Hillside Strangler(s) - boring
John Wayne Gacy - boring
Ed Gein - ok, he was so sick that he's interesting for 15 minutes
The setting, the peripheral characters, the possible motives and all the countless tentacles of the Manson case are enough to keep people like me fascinated for decades.
The Col says: "Tell ME what I am supposed to SEE besides the ABJECT state of mental health in this country."
ReplyDeleteMy God amigo, isn't the ABJECT state of mental health in the US enough for any one man to take, without going totally nuts? Just narrow it down to GUNS and Dicks (RE: Penny Lane's issue)as Clem explains it and we've got another "What the FUCK Chuck?
Wait a minute. I've got an idea. Why not build "institutions" where we can provide FREE lodging for ALL the mentally disadvantaged. Then both the Democrats and the Republicans can have an 'equal' opportunity with regards to FAIR housing. We can call it the Community of Commonism
What I SEE besides a lot of "different" folks wandering around in a SEA of organized chaos is a MOVIE, waiting to be made.
Justice Scalia got HIS kick-start in the "Political Justice" area with Nixon and then Ford.
ReplyDeleteSo was HE involved with the FORD / FROMME legal issues? AND for Penny: WHY did such a brilliant Jurist NEED to play with GUNS? http://www.askclem.com/
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe video game Doom probably had more of an influence on eric and dylan the Charlie ever did, imo
ReplyDeleteYES William, I would NOT miss it. The Black Panthers obviously influenced Charles Manson as did the Black Muslims.
ReplyDeleteBecause the F.B.I. and local law enforcement were at least terrified of Black men carrying GUNs, it could ONLY end badly. BUT most significant, Hoover was afraid that a new "messiah" would emerge and a real B & W race war could ignite. This also tells me, Charles Manson and "Helter Skelter must have also struck FEAR in the "establishment."
This past month, I have been watching everything available on the past "Black Movement" and it became obvious the Mega-Helter Skelter is yet to come.
For WHITE man to THINK he can torture a people OPENLY in a great NATION forever is just plain insanity.
The pigeons will be coming home to roost.
BTW: The Panthers called the cops "PIGS." AND I suspect Hoover and the F.B.I. had a hand in helping Bugliousi deck the halls with H.S. - in such a way as to discourage ANY future rebellions.
Thanks Robert I guess I was waiting for them to mention Manson seems they glossed right over all that we went from 1969 to 1972
ReplyDeleteRobert,
ReplyDeleteSeriously, do you have to make reference to Vietnam in almost every post?
It's like you NEVER left the 60's-70's. I don't get your points any longer.
Sounds like the adults in the Charlie Brown specials.
John Segar that was funnier than hell. LMAO!
ReplyDeleteJOHN SEGAR: I could write a book on why, BUT because YOU have actually realized a "connection" between ME and one of America's most destructive wars (destroyed the relationship between America's YOUTH and it's ELDERS) and the Manson Family, through MY repetitiveness, maybe the mission is finally accomplished. LOL or its time for another WAR.
ReplyDeleteAND I truly thank you for your profound comment - I think you're RIGHT, it's time for ME to sit back and simply enjoy BEYONCE's tribute to the "Black Panther Party" and the "RISE of Islam," as a new and improved "Helter Skelter" finds it's place in American history.
NOW - who had the hardest DICK in the Manson Family ? The test will be open book with pics.
Though there is no direct connection between the Manson killings and the Columbine HS massacre, there are a number of intriguing parallels:
ReplyDelete--Both were committed by a close knit group headed by a charismatic leader
--Noth groups were heavy into the satanism aspect
--The wearing of all black outfits. The trenchcoats of the trenchcoat mafia was similar to the black capes the family at one time sported.
--In both incidents the motive remains murky.
Here is the evidence, taken from police reports, that attested to the satanic nature of trenchcoat mafia group at Columbine
ReplyDeleteThe Devil and the Trenchcoat Mafia
1) TCMer Eric Dutro walking around the school cafeteria telling people that "Satan loves you"(Kelly Beer, 6106) in the spring of '98.
2) Courtney van Dell, aka 'devil girl,' wore barettes in her hair to make it look like she had horns. Said to be a 'wikken'(sic) or a devil worshipper(Kristi Mohrbacher(1010), Jessica Lucero(1508 ), Leigh Ann Clark(2723)).
3) The students seeking shelter with Clement Park worker Steve Ogle(1056) told him the perpetrators were TCM and were "satanists".
4) Jecoa Catt(1364) told IO that the TCM were satanic.
5) Jason Jones(1474) observed the TCM playing 'magic' cards in the cafeteria, which were about the devil and about power.
6) Lacey Shotts(1651) said she believed the TCM students were 'devil worshippers.'
7) Jen Smull saw Robert Perry at a halloween party dressed as a worlock(1827).
8 ) Student Perlman(4054) said Joe Stair used to come to woodshop class with a book he called 'the devil's bible'.
9) Prior to 4th hour on 4-20, Nicole Ray(4144) saw a male TCMer in the science hall, with his hair fashioned ino devil's horns.
10) TCM associate Nathan Dykeman's bedroom wall was supposedly covered with devil posters(4630).
11) Nathan Dykeman says Harris called him 'devil man'.(10710)
12) Daniel Burg(5838 ) told the IO that "...the TCM--they're like satanists."
13) TCM leader Chris Morris told Mark Hengel(5899) "I don't believe in God. I follow Satan's Commandmants."
14) Sara Lutes(6821) says the TCM were satanic, and that they wore satanic symbols on their shirts, underneath their trenchcoats.
15) Chris Hooker, 18, said they were "satanic individuals."
"We'd see them every day. They've threatened to kill people ... but nobody thought that was serious," Hooker said.
16) Library Intern Mary Ziccardi(13647) spent one week at CHS in November of '98. Says Eric Harris "looked like the devil" and may have worn black lipstick.
17) Teacher Mr. Long(EP24-17) said he kicked TCM associate Joe Stair out the computer class for accessing satanic sights. This happened last year.(1998)
18 ) TCM associate Eric Ault(10645) told the IOs that "they were into satanic worship."
19) Jennfer Harmon(8835): "...one of their friends-'Becka'-was waiting for the devil to take over the soul."
20) Brooks Brown(USAToday.com): "They're(TCM) all big on anti-God Satanism. They are really just 'pure hate'."
21) What kind of music did the TCM like? 'Devil' music according to Brandi Wiseman(4751).
22) Trista Fogerty(1420): TCM were satanic, when she first got to CHS friends told her to avoid the group.
23) Nicole Markham(8794): "Harris was into...heavy satanic music."
24) Nicole Lawson, sophomore(3526): (TCM associates)"Stephanie(Kinny) and Kelly(Schwab) would draw "fnords" on the black board. Fnords are little symbols that were servants of the devil. They would draw a whole bunch of them. They did it when no one was looking." ['fnord' is thought to stand for 'for no other reason, discord']
25) TCM associate Chuckie Phillips(10866) internet code(Puterfnord@...) name was meant to represent a servant of the devil.
26) Dustin Harrison(6577): "Dustin said (Redacted) 'scared me to death' because Dustin had heard that (Redacted) was a member of the "Hells Angels" satanic group and said that this satanic group is into human sacrifices. Dustin said that (Redacted) was very verbal about his desire to kill people.
Starviego where did you find the police reports? I am interested in 'recent' Satanic activity. By the way Wiccans are not Satanic, they are witches, they worship nature.
ReplyDeleteLook under 'JCSO Columbine Documents' at this link:
ReplyDeletehttps://schoolshooters.info/original-documents/law-enforcement-records