Dr. David Smith on the Family in the Berkeley Barb

Berkeley Barb Vol. 10 No. 2 Issue 231. Jan. 16-22, 1970 Page 3

LIFE WITH MANSON

Charles Manson and his "family" were in the Haight half a year after the Death of Hippie.

They left in the Spring of 1968 and moved south close to the scene of the murders with which they are charged.

A Haight clinic researcher, Alan Rose, followed them.

Rose lived for four months with the Manson family on the "Spahn Movie Ranch," where they spent a year operating a riding stable-- and doing various other things-- after leaving the Haight.

In an exclusive interview with Dr. David E. Smith, founder of the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic, BARB got some insights into the personality of the accused slayers of actress Sharon Tate and four others.

Dr. Smith told BARB Charlie and other members of the "Manson family"-- mostly young girls-- came to the clinic in April and May 1968 for "general medical things, not drug related problems or psychiatric counseling."

RARE DATA

But the rare "group marriage" sexual scene the Manson family was into attracted the clinical interest of Dr. Smith and Rose, then administrator of the clinic.

They were concerned with the health problems that crop up in different types of communal living, and the Manson family was one of the few they'd run across the practiced all-out sexual communism.

From that study and their experiences at the Clinic, came a scholarly paper on the group marriage commune to be published this spring in the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs.

WARNING

And coming as a by-product of their study is a warning to people who dig taking other people's trips: your friendly local guru just might be an incredibly persuasive schizophrenic with destructive paranoid delusions, and not a mystic at all.

BARB interviewed Dr. Smith Wednesday night for clarification of certain points brought out in the study report-- circulated in typescript-- and received permission to use some of the information it contains prior to its publication.

"He, (Charlie) was an extroverted, persuasive individual and served as an absolute ruler of this group marriage commune.  What he approved was approved by the rest of the group.  What he disapproved was forbidden," the report says.

NO BOOKS

The commune at this time consisted of about 20 core members, 14 of them women, plus several visiting "cousins."  Three had some college education, one even had a masters degree, but education was "indoctrination" to Manson, and one of his chief tasks was to undo the "brainwashing" society had done on his mainly middle-class charges.

Manson "felt that getting rid of sexual inhibitions would free people from most of their other inhibitions and problems," the report said.  "Most of the group had refuted the financial and material possession orientation of their families with relative ease.  The 'sexual orientation' was not that easy."

INITIATION

The researcher reported how Manson went about the process of reorientation:  (Charlie) set himself up as "initiator of new females" into the commune.  He would spend most of their first day making love to them, as he wanted to see if they were just on a "sex trip", or whether they were seriously interested in joining the family.

He would spend a great deal of time talking with them finding out, as he put it, "where their heads were at."  An unwillingness, for example, to engage in mutual oral-genital contact was cause for immediate expulsion, for he felt that this was one of the most important indications as to whether or not the girl would be willing to give up her sexual inhibitions.

DISCIPLINE

The study touches on methods of disciplining family members and prospects who did not shape up.  These included refusal to have sex with anyone who was not changing fast enough, and as a sterner measure, a "long talk" technique.

"This form would involve two or three partners in the commune approaching the individual in question and asking "Why are you here? What do you want from us? If we asked you to hitchhike to New York and stay there for awhile, would you do it?

"If the answer to the last question was yes, and the individual still did not go, he would usually be asked to leave and stay away until he went through sufficient "changes."

THE REJECTS

People usually left "involuntarily" at the insistence of the family..."

Those that stayed found the struggle for food-- which they termed an "adventure"-- to be one of the main preoccupations of the daily round.  They would rummage through grocery store garbage bins during food forays to town.

Other than that, bread came in the form of contributions from new members or gifts of money, food, and clothing from more affluent "cousins."

The group stayed in condemned ranch buildings in return for managing the stable of riding horses, the ranch's sole source of income.

KID CULT

The group wasn't into eastern religion or drugs, but the simple daily round of work, lovemaking, casual dope-sacramental use of smoking, and scrounging tied in with Manson's thing about children, the report indicated. There were several kids on the commune.

"The child was always the center of attraction and went everywhere the group did.  The child was viewed as the one to emulate and follow as he was considered untainted by society.

(Manson) used the words of Jesus: "he who is like the small child shall reap rewards of heaven,' to  guide their family and child rearing philosophy," the report stated.

INTERVIEW

Primarily concerned with health issues, the report did not devote extensive attention to the other problems raised by this and similar communal arrangements.  So BARB sought and received a few additional insights from Dr. Smith.

Dr. Smith said, "The problem was that Charlie was disturbed.  He developed a paranoid delusional system that led to violence, it wasn't a drug thing.

"When we studied them there was no violence, but there is a fairly fine line between mysticism and schizophrenia.  Every commune we studied that has survived has had a spiritual leader that has nothing but positive visions this wouldn't happen.

GOD'S WORD

"Charlie had a lot of good things about him, he said a lot of mystical things that appealed to the girls, but he also had a lot of serious problems in the area of paranoid delusions, and everything he said was God's word to the girls.

"If you totally accept someone you lose your ability to discriminate between the good things and the bad things.  If you know schizophrenics, you know how persuasive they can get, and if you are an adolescent in turmoil who is searching for a guru, you can be easily convinced."

Dr. Smith continued:  "This is one of the things that worries us at the clinic.  People can't surrender all individual control to higher authority, they still have to be able to think for themselves."

WHAT'S REALISM?

"...I think there are certain things anyone should be aware of. like what kind of grasp on reality the leader has, how he apprehends reality, but the girls always say 'What is reality'"

"What Charlie did, the main thing, was the sex thing and the infant consciousness.  They put a tremendous emphasis on that, saying the ideal is the infant.  What they are really saying is any socialization is bad and the individual should reject it.

"Then what he did was substitute his own philosophy.

CRUCIAL TEST

"The crucial thing to look for is how in touch with reality the leader is, and, secondly, whether his vision runs counter to what you intuitively know is destructive.  If people would think in terms of what is constructive and what is destructive behavior, not what is conventional or not...

"So many groups don't develop an individual ethic, just a group ethic, and they aren't much better off than if they stuck with the straight society they are rejecting.  They just go from one group ethic to another group ethic...

HIP MAGNET

"Unfortunately, a very large number of guys like Charlie are running around.  They seem to be attracted to the hip subculture with its freedom and acceptance.  Fortunately, not many of them are as persuasive as Charlie, and they don't end up in positions of power...

"There are a lot of people like that, and many of them are in mental hospitals.  Any individual who has an all-encompassing delusional system that has all the answers is very persuasive to an adolescent who is searching for a substitute father figure."

BARB asked if the girls in Manson's family were any different in any way.

GIRL PROBLEM

"No, that's the dangerous thing, there are hundreds of thousands of adolescent girls in turmoil that are looking for answers, and if they get hooked up with a guy like that, they are in trouble.  They must analyze their behavior to determine what is constructive and what is destructive.  I'm concerned with the great deal of group conformity that exists in the hip movement," said the 30-year old doctor.  "It's suppose to be the antithesis of conformity."

"I think communes can be a very positive and meaningful way of life but only if the participants in the movement think for themselves," he concluded.

Badass Interview: Jim Van Bebber on THE MANSON FAMILY

Published March 22, 2013 by Robert Saucedo on badassdigest.com

The story behind Jim Van Bebber’s The Manson Family is a pretty fascinating one. Van Bebber, an Ohio filmmaker, spent over a decade sporadically filming the movie – a low-budget, often hallucinatory look at Charles Manson and the cult he amassed during his heyday. Filming whenever he could, Van Bebber would work until he ran out of money, screen a rough cut of the film at festivals to raise more money and then go back to work. The process began somewhere around 1988 but it wasn't until 2003 that the finished film – pushed over the financial finish line thanks to David Gregory and Carl Daft – was released.

The result is a gonzo journey through fact and fiction – an acid-trip look at Manson’s influence nestled in a gleefully gory bookend about a TV journalist attempting to finish a documentary about Manson’s followers. During the decades it took to create the movie, Van Bebber, who wrote, directed, starred and self-financed the film, created a sometimes dense, often morally reprehensible and only occasionally restrained movie that really is like few other films of its kind. The Manson Family is muck-encased, blood-caked modern exploitation that transcends its financial limitations to become something really fascinating – equally for its content and for its origin.

Over the last ten years, Van Bebber has slipped into the fringes of horror – working hard for the last several years to finance his follow-up picture, Gator Green. Along the way, Van Bebber has built up his own cult of personality – acquiring rumors, whispers and legends along the way. Now, on the tenth anniversary of The Manson Family, Van Bebber is ready to step back into the spotlight in a big way. A successful Kickstarter campaign helped finance a short film version of Gator Green in the hopes that it might raise interest in the final film. In addition, The Manson Family is on the eve of a theatrical rerelease tour (including a stop at the Alamo Drafthouse Cinema – Vintage Park on Friday, March 29 and Saturday, March 30) courtesy of Severin Films. A new high-definition transfer of the film will follow when Severin Films releases a Blu-ray this April.

The below interview was done over the phone and – to put it bluntly – I’m not completely sure what was going on. Right away, Van Bebber seemed to have adopted a character, occasionally slipping into a British accent and more often than not providing a rambling, incoherent answer that ended in a desire to fight me. I'm assuming this was all for a bit of fun (I've not been able to locate any proof that Van Bebber has joined The Troggs, for example). Either way, Van Bebber has shown he still has the ability to be just as interesting and entertaining as the films he makes. If you're looking for an insightful look into the making of The Manson Family, I apologize. The good news is that the upcoming Blu-ray will include the full, uncut documentary The Van Bebber Family - a chronicle of the film's production. If you're looking for an interview that ends with the subject demanding an apology and hanging up - you, my friend, are in luck!

If you are in any of the cities the film will be playing (full line-up here), you should definitely check out the movie on the big screen. Many of the screenings will be in 35mm and include an advanced look at the short film version of Gator Green. In any case, make a point to check out The Manson Family if you have an opportunity. I can't guarantee you'll love it but - hey, a lot of parents don't love their kids, and they still spend time with them.

It's been ten years since your movie was released in its completed form. How does it feel to be about to see the film rereleased theatrically and released on Blu-ray for the first time? I imagine it’s an exciting time for you.

This is as exciting as Glenda Jackson’s nipples.

Okay, then. In the last ten years, have you noticed that The Manson Family has changed your approach to being a filmmaker?

It has made everything … purple.
Purple?

I do believe that’s what I said.

Well, other than that - do you feel you've changed as a filmmaker since this film has been released?

I have grown more accustomed to beer drinkers.

Did you say beer drinkers?

That’s what I said. What’s wrong with you, lad? You've got shit in your ears? Do you need a good tommyknocking from the Brighton Blackie Boys?

Can you talk a little bit about the lengthy production that you went through to get THE MANSON FAMILY made?

The lengthy production. Is that what you said?

That is what I said.

I just believe that, you know, no man can get hair on his balls until he’s grown.

Well, let me ask you this – do you see any current figures in today’s society that have the same charismatic influence that Charles Manson did?

No, no. No, it’s all bullshit. That’s a bunch of flying poppy. Nun. Sally Fields or whatever. Flying nun. Am I now the Flying Nun? Is that what you’re trying to say to me? I am the Flying Nun? So I’m no better, in your spit world, than Sally Field flying through a fucking poppy cock then a bunch of blue sky.

I’m going take that as a no.

That would be a no.

Over the last ten years, have you seen life reflect art - have you had any correspondence with Charles Manson or his followers due to making this movie?

No, I have no desire to talk to those shits.

It's pretty amazing that the film is both getting a theatrical release in 35mm and being rereleased on Blu-ray. Is it good to see this movie find new life in both the original film format and also a new high-definition digital format?

I find it amusing at best. You've got to understand… I would rather… Do you want to fight?

Do I want to fight?

Do you want to fight? Do. You. Want. To. Fight. Me? Are you asking me for a fight?

Maybe. Are you going to be in Houston anytime soon?

No, I mean you! Do you want to fight?

Upon consideration, I’d prefer not to.

OK then. OK. Alright.

Have you had a chance to take a look at the upcoming Blu-ray and its transfer?

What is a Blu-ray?

The new high definition transfer of your film.

Really? I… Do you want to fight?

I’ll pass this time.

OK, maybe next time?

Yeah, maybe next time.

You’ll have the score of the Blackie Boys behind you, right?

Yeah, definitely.

OK, well then. I eat Britain rock. I eat Britain rock for breakfast.

How does that digest? Do you find British rock is a little rough coming out the other end?

Um, I don’t worry about the other end, per se. I take in my intake, good man.

I imagine Britain Rock is high in fiber.

Well, it charms the soul.

So, congratulations on getting the short film version of Gator Green successfully Kickstarted. When can fans expect more news about the film?

There’s no more news. (long diabolical laughter) Bother! Ba-ba-ba. I want to be a rock and roller.

So, there’s no more news –

(Unintelligible shouting) Why are you making me look like a wook head? You’re making me look like a gardener. I want to be an old Ted. I want to be a rock and roller.

Your background as a cult filmmaker should go a long way towards making that transition to being a rock and roller.

I’ve just recorded a new song with my favorite rock and roll group.

Elton John?

No! The Troggs. Troggs! Troggs! Troggs, you fat bastard! The Troggs. “Wild Thing.”

So, when is that going to get released?

This summer.

Any plans to tour with the band?

Perhaps, perhaps. Actually, at the Housecore Horror Film Festival, I believe it’s in October, I will be singing “Wild Thing” with my band The Troggs.

Congratulations on this new career.

I hope that you have a new career.

At this point, so do I.

I have to ask about the Kickstarter campaign. What’s the deal with Evil Dead Trap 2.

Excuse me - what did you just say?

In the Kickstarter campaign for Gator Green, you included many contributor bonus levels that awarded people copies of Evil Dead Trap 2. What made you decide to include this particular film? I didn't immediately recognize the connection between the film and your work – did you just happen to have a bunch of extra copies of the film lying around?

I am not a distributor so that is totally the wrong question for this person. I have no control over Evil Dead Trap 2! I have no idea. I have never even seen the film.

I understand that the promotional short film for Gator Green is going to be included with the theatrical re-release of The Manson Family. What can fans expect from the short film?

They can expect what I deliver – which is violence and sex and animosity and loathing in great degrees. That’s what they can expect.

But no feature film is happening, right? Just a tour with The Troggs?

Troggs! Troggs! Troggs, you French bastard. You frog!

So, besides your musical career, what’s next for you?

The next thing I’m going to produce is a very personal production of mine. It’s a totally naked musical version of The Music Man. And we’re all buck naked.

(At this point, Van Bebber breaks out in an unintelligible  off key rendition of what I assume was meant to be a song from the musical).

Just buck naked of course. And, you know, flaming bush right in your face.

And will this be for an audience of your cats or will you take this on the road?

Oh, no. I’m putting it on film, dude.

Do you still shoot with film or have you moved on to digital?

I never go digital.

I’ve read past interviews where you advise young filmmakers to always shoot film. Does your advice still hold?

No, no, no. It does not apply. It does not apply. If you’re going to make a film, make a film. As did the ancestor I came from – Herbert von Boom Boom Tree - said. That’s the lineage that I respect. I do best to counter the configuration of northern America. I eat Brighton Rock for breakfast.

Well, I want to thank you for your time and I’ll let you get back to the copious mushroom tripping I seemed to have interrupted. Good luck with the re-release of the film on Blu-ray and during its theatrical re-release.

Would you like to correct your last statement? Would you like to correct that?

Which statement?

The randy statement about mushrooms and what have you? Can we correct that?

Sure. So, I’ll assume that you are not currently high?

No, say you’re sorry for saying that. Before I get violent.

Sure, I apologize for insinuating you may not have been totally coherent for this interview.

You apologize! Yes, you do. You do! OK. That’s enough. I’m done with you.

Sharon and Roman Wedding Video

 

This is a very cool little clip of Sharon and Roman departing the Chelsea Registry Office after being married and the reception at the Playboy Club Park Lane.

LaBianca house November 2012

Thanks to JohnnyAngel for the pics

--------------------------------------------

5/13/13

Updated with pics from Sun King:

Le Pig Studio Presents.....

The following song was recorded at 10050 Cielo Drive in 1992. Actually, the whole album this song is from was recorded there in Trent Reznor's home studio named "Le Pig." The album, of course, is "The Downward Spiral." The song is "Gave Up." Notice Marilyn Manson pretending to play the guitar in the video. In MM's book (The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell) he wrote about staying with Trent Reznor at 10050 Cielo Drive, and filming this particular video. MM stated he wasn't really playing the guitar. He also stated that him, and Trent Reznor picked up some skanks one night, brought them up to the house, and chased them around the yard in the same area where the murder victims were chased to their deaths. Sick!

Trent Reznor went on to state in an interview that when he rented the house, he had no idea that it was the same house where Sharon Tate & the others were butchered. Uh, ok. He must really think people are idiots.

The Motive

                                          The Motive

"Good and evil, reward and punishment, are the only motives to a rational creature: these are the spur and reins whereby all mankind are set on work, and guided"

                        - John Locke

We all have our own personal theory on the true motive for TLB. I used to think  the truth could be traced to relationships forged in the Laurel Canyon scene where Stars, Musicians, and common hippies were all mingling together over dope and music. Over the years I have become surer that some of them must have met in this place and time, but less sure it means anything in the big picture as far as motive for the crimes. Here are some other peoples opinions on what the motive was and was not....

"Helter-skelter was the motive for the murders. Manson borrowed that term from a Beatles song on the White Album. In England, helter-skelter is a playground ride. To Manson, helter-skelter meant a war between whites and blacks that the Beatles were in favor of. When the album first came out, in December of '68, he got a copy, and he came racing back to the ranch all excited and said, "The Beatles are telling it like it is! The s___ is coming down!" It was this war that he felt he could ignite by killing white people and blaming black militants, this war called helter-skelter."

               Vincent Bugliosi  - Interview with Time Magazine, August 2009                



"So how did the Prosecutor, Vincent Bugliosi, make the mistake of concluding that Helter Skelter , a black/white race war that would bring on Armageddon, was the motive for the murders of the LaBiancas and those at 10050 Cielo Drive? The most obvious reason is that Mr. Bugliosi didn’t look at the events that led up to these murders in chronological order. If you don’t study what happened in the order it happened how can you ever understand why one occurrence followed another?

  It wasn’t until the trial started that Vincent Bugliosi finally found out about the suspected murder of Bernard Crowe. This suspected murder would have an incredible effect on the actions of Charles Manson, but by the time Vincent Bugliosi discovered it he was already selling Helter Skelter to a jury.

It’s worth looking at the incident that followed – the Crowe Incident – a little closer, because it is the true beginning of the terrible panicked spiral that led to the deaths of nine innocent people."

         

                      Susan Atkins-  excerpts from " The Myth of Helter Skelter"

"There were three basic motives behind the murders that took place sometime past midnight on August 9. The most obvious was the one Charlie had articulated to us that afternoon: to do what blackie didn't have the energy or the smarts to do-ignite Helter Skelter and bring in Charlie's kingdom. There was also the need for more cash, first of all to finance our preparations for Armageddon-the same thing that had motivated the drug burn and Bernard Crowe's supposed murder, the killing of Gary Hinman, and all the proposed abductions and murders in the Chatsworth area-and also to pay $600 bail for Mary Brunner, who had been arrested earlier that day for using a stolen Sears' credit card. If she had not been in custody, Mary would most likely have been the one sent with us that night, instead of Linda, since Mary had the other valid driver's license in the Family and had already proven herself at Gary Hinman's. Beyond getting money and bringing down Helter Skelter, there was a third, less important purpose: to clear Bobby Beausoleil of the Hinman slaying by committing a similar crime while he was in jail."

       

                      Tex Watson- "Will you Die for Me?"

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Talking about the people that you've harmed, there was a greater goal in what you were -- what the Family was trying to accomplish at that time was this idea of a racial war?

INMATE VAN HOUTEN: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And you apparently had bought into that?

INMATE VAN HOUTEN: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Was -- you know, in addition to the nature of the murders themselves, have you thought about how you were able to, coming from this, again, this fairly normal background, to be able to buy into that kind of potential violence?

INMATE VAN HOUTEN: Yes, I've thought about it a lot, because at the time I didn't even think of it in terms of being racist. He -- it was presented as a eventual outcome, and I thought how dangerous it is to not pay very close attention to what people say. It was particularly painful for me because my sister and brother are Amerasian, and I had to live with that, with them too, and make my amends.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Commissioner, any questions?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No.

      

                        Leslie Van Houten- 2007 Parole Hearing transcript

“So, when Beausoleil come to me with, could I be a brother? I told him certainly, you know. So we were like in a little brotherhood together, like we didn't lie to each other. And whatever he said do, I would do. And whatever I said do, he would do.  But as far as lining up someone for some kind of helter skelter trip, you know, that's the District Attorney's motive. That's the only thing he could find for a motive to throw up on top of all that confusion he had. There was no such thing in my mind as helter skelter. Helter skelter was a song and it was a nightclub - we opened up a little after-hours nightclub to make some money and play some music and do some dancing and singing and play some stuff to make some money for dune buggies to go out in the desert. And we called the club Helter Skelter. It was a helter skelter club because we would be there and when the cops would come, we'd all melt into other dimensions because it wasn't licensed to be anything in particular. And that was kind of like a speakeasy back in the moonshine days behind the movie set.”
                         
                       Charles Manson- 1992 Parole Hearing Transcript


“First of all you are misinformed, as is everyone misinformed, about the so called “family.”  There was no organization called “The Family”.  The Family was a term given by the media to an amorphous group of people, some of whom went to prison in 1969. We lived on a ranch in the Santa Susana Mountains called Spahn ranch, and later we lived in Death Valley. We didn’t call ourselves anything, but we made a lot of music and somebody said, “Well what do you call your group?” And somebody said “Well were the family Jams.” So over a period of time, because the media usually needs to put a label on situations, we got the name “The Family”.  But there were literally hundreds of people who came and went. Later on, you might say, there was a core of people who were very close together and stayed true to the thought that we had for stopping the war in Vietnam, and for protecting our air, our water, our trees, and our animals. We were so committed to those causes that the murders more or less evolved out of our desire to change the system.”
       
                          Sandra Good-  Radio interview 1990 W. G.R. Buffalo NY


“Manson has been proclaimed by many to be insane. The question of whether or not he is insane is a question of opinion, which cannot have a “true” right answer. However, his beliefs, which fueled his and his family’s actions between 1968 and 1975 conflicted with society’s morals, around which this country revolves."
" He also believed that he was Satan, to come to Earth and start Helter-Skelter, what he called a prophetical Armageddon.”

" Helter Skelter, revenge were part of his beliefs. Humans had corrupted the Earth and ATWA, and were ignorant about it. Manson had felt that society dumped him and he felt great rage for society, and people, and later found an anthem for his rage. When asked about his actions, many years after the murders, he had said that he is a part of everyone, that he mirrors people, because they shaped him. The Beatles’ “White Album” included songs (Helter Skelter, Revolution #9, Piggies, and others) that Manson felt documented his rage toward society. When at the ranch, he and the family listened to these songs many times over. Manson thought he had heard his name being said in one of the songs. Their thoughts about Helter Skelter, or the Armageddon, were brought out by these songs. In Revolution #9, he heard machine gun fire, the oinking of pigs, and a man saying, “rise.”

"His beliefs would later incite Helter Skelter, using his family as a type of “army.” Some people believe that he just brutalized people, that the murders were for no cause, and he was just insane. Yet, more than twenty-five years after he and his family were convicted, he still has the same beliefs and still can logically explain his actions."

“Manson’s murder case was the most extraordinary of the time period, especially taking into account the hippie era. However, the murders partially stemmed from the era as he had so many people under his control, believing every word, what he thought of turned into a reality. Oliver Stone compliments Manson when describing his interview with Geraldo Rivera, saying that Manson had the upper hand of the discussion the entire time. Intelligence is not one and the same with sanity, however, which might have explained Manson’s retaliation against society. It is of somebody’s opinion to decide whether or not they think Manson is insane. Yet, his mind and motives can explain why he acted how he did, and why society didn’t approve.”
        
         Excerpts from: The Mind and Motives of Charles Manson -An essay by Dylan Klebold     (Columbine High killer)

"So what I am trying to say here is that the Charles Manson murders that happened in 1969 were a phony "show trial" that was created to cover up the Robert Kennedy assassination that took place a year earlier in 1968. I know that is hard to believe "but true.".Earlier you found out that the DAs office in LA altered the "motive" in the Sirhan Sirhan assassination case. How much Bugliosi played a part in this we may never know but during the Tate LaBianca murder trial Bugliosi "definitely" altered the motive while he was chief prosecutor of the case. He hid the Mafia/CIA connections to the case and created a motive where "wild crazed hippies on LSD were killing people at random" Anybody that has ever studied this case can prove that these murders were anything but random. The LAPD right from the start concluded the these murders were high end drug deals gone wrong and they were right all along. This is the first time in our country that people have seen how our Intelligence community were heavily involved in the Tate LaBianca murders."

"I mean you don't have to tell me what happened. I lived in the area at the time and saw the whole thing happen with my own two eyes. When I was in high school there were actually Manson girls going to my school. The rumor on campus was that the Charles Manson murders were some sort of Government operation what was being blamed on Hippies. All of the evidence seems to show that this "rumor" was true."

                 -  Excerpts from- "I was there and saw the whole thing happen"- Mark Carter as posted on Lets Roll Community Forums.

" I call it the Manson trial because nobody talks about it being Charles Watson's massacre. That's the boy who killed seven people, but the news media associates the name Charles Manson [with the killings]. He made the picture on the cover of Life; He is the man that you associate with killing Sharon Tate. Many people don't even know the name Charles Watson, because you're not supposed to know it. Right now there's a hung jury in Los Angeles on the decision of whether Charles Watson is guilty of murdering seven people. He was in the home. He did the stabbing forty times. He wrote "death to the pigs" on the door. The jury can't decide if he was guilty. My conclusions are, number one: that all of these persons involved—the major people—are agent provaceteurs. They come at a time to increase violence, to come down on a segment of our society prior to an election year to make law and order necessary to protect us from the people at large in our society. Number two: Charles Manson was a patsy. He is identical, historically, to Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, and James Ray. Charles Manson killed nobody in the Sharon Tate home or in the La Bianca home. He was being charged with these murders and he didn't kill any one of those seven people. He was used. He was a person who had been in jail twenty-two of his thirty-two years of life. He was the product of our penal system. He was not a hippie or a part of the youth culture. They bought him a guitar, let his hair grow, put a leather jacket on him, gave him money, gave him a bus and credit cards, and told him to do his thing. It was like James Ray was a part of our penal system. He was in Missouri in jail, he met with certain persons, and the next day he was out and there was twenty, thirty thousand dollars of money spent. He traveled continents and everywhere. He was to be used at a certain time and place. Charles Manson was identical to James Ray, as a product of our penal system. He was used by the news media to slam down on the hippies. We could do one hour on the news control of how your brain is shaped to believe that Charles Manson made a robot out of a nice white Christian boy from Texas. Isn't this terrible? This kind of a criminal mind? He was used.

              -  Mae Brussell Talks about Charles Manson 1972 ( Whatsup- enjoy the journey.blogspot)

" The real motive was to get a brother, Bobby Beausoleil, out of jail by committing “copycat” murders that would convince the authorities that Beausoleil could not be guilty of the murder (of Gary Hinman) for which he had been arrested on August 6, 1969. This motive is much more realistic and has much more circumstantial support than the DA’s fantastic ‘helter skelter’ motive. It’s the real motive. There’s only one thing wrong with it from the prosecutorial point of view: It is not a personal motive for Charles Manson."

                          -  Manson ATWA(r) website


                 
              
                                     So Whats your opinion????

Thoughts on "Inside The Manson Gang"- A Film by Robert Hendrickson

"The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each others life."
-Richard Bach

"Family.... A group experience of love and support."
-Marianne Williamson

So after the conversation about Mark Ross the other day, I decided to go back and re-watch the "Inside the Manson Gang" DVD to refresh my memory. Since it is obvious from the conversation some of you have never seen it- I will pass on the notes about Ross, and some other things I thought were interesting....

I got the "Inside the Manson Gang" DVD with the "Manson" DVD as part of a Hendrickson package I ordered a few years back. As "Manson" was nominated for an Academy award and I never heard of the second movie - I assumed it would be mostly leftover footage that did not survive the cutting room. That may partially be the case. But, for someone like me- it really doesn't matter.  I could watch this stuff forever. I would watch every frame of film he took if I could. And actually- this focuses much more on the day to day life out at Spahn. The authentic footage of the natural setting and environment around the ranch, as well as the video of the family living as they were out there is mesmerizing to me. There is plenty here to see. They are filmed playing, partying, singing, swimming, and of course traveling in mass to the courthouse to pay homage to the King. Whereas "Manson" is more of a documentary with interviews and facts related to the crimes- this is a close- up look at life within the remaining family as it was. For those of you who would be interested in watching "Home movies" of life at Spahn Ranch- this is something you must see. Essentially- that is what most of this film is. There is some background on the times and on Hendrickson himself, but mostly this is a close up chance to see the Family "As it was". Groovy huh?? It was for me... I did notice a few things which bear mentioning and in no specific order here they are:

The guy in the pic at the top of this post who looks a little like James Brolin in Amityville Horror is Mark Ross. Hendrickson spends 10 minutes or so early in the movie explaining how he came across the family, and Ross was the guy who was responsible. Hendrickson describes him as a "Good friend", and also as the guy who was working as the lead actor in his second feature about the second coming. He explained at the time that Ross told him that he had a bunch of "Wannabee musicians" staying at his house. He also went on to say that Ross showed him the room where Zero killed himself and the gun he did it with. (Guess it was not taken into custody?) Mark Ross was the one who set up the filming. He said that Ross presented him an opportunity he couldn't pass up: An exclusive into the Manson Family. On the first night of filming they are inside of a tent or something and all the usual cast of characters are smoking a joint, and singing songs while Watkins play guitar and in the middle of it Ross shows up to a warm greeting and takes a seat in the circle.... Later Hendrickson mentions that after TLB, Ross said he was too fearful and never finished the project they had been working on. He also points out sarcastically that he didn't seem to afraid to finish the work they were doing on the "Family."  There is no doubt that Mark Ross was very close with, at least, the people living at Spahn after the arrests. He seemed very at home with them, and was in tight enough to be allowed to bring in friends with movie cameras. Hendrickson gives him full credit for making the introduction between himself and the "Family."

Which brings me to the next thing which stood out. For all the talk about Bruce, or anyone of the guys being second in command when Charlie was away... It was Squeaky who Hendrickson repeatedly had to wait on to go speak with Charlie for final approval on any issues which arose. From the original permission to film- to each day outside of the courthouse- the cameras seemed to be constantly showing Squeaky coming or going in to see Charlie for the final answer. At one point Hendrickson had to stop filming because Gypsy and Sandy were trying to take over direction of the filming. He demanded a meeting with Charlie in the clink. At this meeting Charlie told Gypsy to do whatever Hendrickson said, so Charlie seemed to be still calling most of the shots even while inside. At least during the filming of this Documentary. All decisions on where and how they could film where made by Charlie through jailhouse visits- most frequently done by Squeakster. But it was the women who seemed to be calling shots not Bruce or any of the men....

Heres another thing I noticed...Paul Watkins was back in the middle of things. He did the music with Brooks in the "Manson" Documentary, and was interviewed in a way which made me feel he was pro prosecution by this time, or at least working with them. However, here he is sitting in the middle of the party smoking weed and playing guitar while the others sing around him. No wonder he would later become a politician. This guy was adept at  playing both sides even back then..... 

As well- another prominent face in the middle of the partying and all the nudity is Juan Flynn. If you never read a book about the family and simply watch this video- you would walk away thinking he was as much a part of this family as any of them. He may have distanced himself later, and Bugs made him out to be one of the good guys, and maybe he really was. In this video he is certainly not showing any signs of being any different than the rest of them....

Hendrickson made 3 separate references to Bruce Davis possibly being the Zodiac. He asked at one point if he should just walk up to Bruce and ask him "How many people have you killed?" It is apparent that people have been suspicious of Bruce for almost 40 years.

Gyspy made a point of asking Hendrickson to make sure everyone knew they take baths like everybody else does. This tells me they weren't that out of it that they didn't recognize hygiene. They actually made a point of showing a couple of them bathing. So I am quite sure they got it even back then that it was a pretty filthy living they were doing. They had awareness of both the conditions and that people from outside were going to be critical of them....

BUT- Here I am going to stop. I am not going to go on my usual rant about the cleanliness and the kids/babies that were, as usual, there as well being filmed in all the elements. I am going to close with something different. I harp on the negatives enough and, like most of you, it is the spirit of the communal lifestyle which is interesting and even attractive to me. That is on full display here. So, let me give some props to some of  the family members who were shown in this film. These were some, beyond a doubt, unusual people who were zonked out of there minds on Acid, and a variety of other drugs. But, you cannot watch this film and not see the trust, love and respect for each other some of them had. Despite my protests about the living conditions- they were leading the lives they chose and were in a place which let them express themselves naturally and without pretense. These appear to be people living in harmony with each other. I  found myself envious at times watching them. They had a sense of freedom and ability to live without confining themselves to the expectations of others, which quite frankly, I will never posses. Absolutely there were some beautiful and peaceful moments between them. There were others here, besides the criminals, who were runaways and castoffs who didn't have many options. They were searching for the love and family all of us deserve. If they found it there with each other- and weren't hurting anyone else- Lets just say I should do a better job of understanding and respecting that sometimes. There were human beings living at Spahn Ranch. Sigh... Is this the time for me to make the joke about getting off my "High Horse?"  ;)

What I wonder, after watching, is if it was better earlier with Charlie and the others, or if life and the mood was lighter and without as much tension and pressure during the filming of this movie when he was already gone? Obviously,  not everyone in this group of people was evil. In the absence of Charlie and some of the others- there seems to be a very jovial and upbeat vibe. Not like the atmosphere I have read over and over existed just prior to, and immediately after, the crimes. They seemed to be having a really good time for the most part. For sure- there were some days back in the late 60's at Spahn Ranch both before and after the crimes when a person could have themselves quite an experience if they were smart and careful...

Again today I found myself spending quite a bit of time daydreaming about what it would be like to actually have been there. The first thought that ever crossed my mind after hearing about these people still crosses my mind today. What was it actually like to be there back in the day and at the time????

Sitting next to Country Sue under the Sun beneath a waterfall completely naked smoking a joint is something I would be too embarrassed and self conscious to do. But it didn't look like exactly the worst way on Earth to spend an afternoon either...

:)

Ed Sanders.... On Death Row part 2



 

 

Los Angeles Free Press Vol. 7 No. 45 Issue # 329  Nov. 6, 1970 

continued....





Frank Fowles, the District Attorney of Inyo County, testified about some sound tests he conducted recently at Myers Ranch in the Death Valley National Monument.  His testimony was given to add strength to Barbara Hoyt's testimony that she heard Susan Atkins say that Sharon Tate was the last to die because she had to watch the others die first.  The overheard conversation allegedly took place inside the Myers Ranch, which is about a quarter of a mile up the wash from the famous Barker Ranch.

Fowles really wasn't needed at the trial, but probably was brought down by the prosecution as a courtesy measure.  He did not testify about the famous file of nude photos of the Family, including the whispered-over Manson-Little Patty-Clem Brenda circle slurp.  Nor did he testify about the camera equipment confiscated at the Barker Ranch in October of 1969 or the film therein which, according to authorities, when developed turned out to be blank.

The continued search for the head of Shorty O'Shea(sic) continues unabated.  There once was a stuntman ranch hand at the Spahn Ranch who disappeared.  His car, loaded up with all his gear (minus his matched pistols) was discovered in Canoga Park after he disappeared.  According to many sources, he was beheaded after a few weeks of friction with certain people.

Anyway, one Vern Plumlee, a former "member" of the Family who is currently held for some stabbing in Long Beach, led the police recently on a skull search of the burnt Spahn Ranch, which included a search of a large water tank high on the hills north of the ranch.  Vern claimed to the fuzz that Clem told him that Shorty was buried by a campfire down by the creek by the cave, but only chicken bones were discovered.  This is about the fifth time that a massive search for Shorty's body has been undertaken.

We checked with Thomas Noguci, the LA County Coroner, when the rumors about the Sheriff's Office looking anew for Mr. O'Shea(sic) were spreading about.  It is known that Devil's Canyon was held to be sacred long ago when Indians lived nearby.  Well, evidently when they were digging in Devil's Canyon early this year for Shorty, they uncovered some sort of Indian burial ground, a fact that hampered operations in that each skull had to be examined as to its age and likeness to the one sought.  They have not found Shorty.

Vern Plumlee is famous in Mansonian circles in that, armed with a sawed-off shotgun, he creepy crawled the homes of Jack Jones, the star, and Marvin Miller in July of 1969.  From the home of Jack Jones, creepy crawled at 2AM even though the lights were on, the c.-c.-ers took only a cowboy hat.  For verily they creepy crawled only to experience the tidal wave of the Great Fear.

One of the last prosecution witnesses is to be Dianne Lake, who had lived with Charlie Manson for almost two years prior to her arrest in Death Valley in October 1969.  After her arrest and after further arrests regarding the murders, she was placed in an insane asylum through a frightening police state-like collusion of the Los Angeles District Attorney, the Inyo County District Attorney and hospital authorities.

In late December 1969, Dianne Lake (known as Snake to the Family) was extensively interviewed by one Jack Gardiner and one Buck Gibbons (famous in that he confiscated Sandy Good's breast pump during the Barker Ranch raids) about activities of Manson and the Family.  Mr. Gardiner and Mr. Gibbons. who are employees of the Inyo County District Attorney's office, came up with some interesting data.  However, what power on earth could have predicted that the pretty and nubile Miss Lake would turn up a year later with Mr. Gardiner as her foster father!?

Anyway, early this year she was admitted, as a minor, into Paton State mental hospital.  Her legal parents tried to visit her and to claim her but were told to fuck off.  Hospital lackeys diagnosed her as follows: "Diagnosis: 295.0 Schizophrenia, chronic undifferentiated type (with group delinquent reaction). 308.58 Behavior disorder of childhood and adolescence. 304.7 Drug dependence, hallucinogens (prominent).  Prognosis: Extremely guarded for any improvement in this girl."

A Conservator was appointed for her- the Inyo County Coroner.  She remained in the nut hatch until this past August, even though she was reported by her captors to be sane about a week after she was committed.  After her release from Paton Hospital she has lived with her foster father.  In coming to court to testify the other day she bore a startling resemblance to the English cousin in the Patty Duke Show, with her hair combed in a similar manner, her faced scrubbed shiny and a white sailor shirt and blue skirt covering her body, which seems to be tending towards chub-chub.

In honor of her impending testimony the x-browed girls vigiling outside moved inside- the group of snuff sub-alterns moved inside to wait for Snake Lake.  As she walked into court escorted by her "Father" and by one of those smiling deputy DA's who took the place of Aaron Stovitz, Squeaky yelled out, "You ain't plastic and you know it. You can't turn your back on love."  As I write this Snake hasn't actually testified but as of a hearing on her ability to remember events of summer-fall 1969, she has been adjudged competent to testify.  She is expected to testify regarding conversations she heard about the death of Rosemary LaBianca and also about the disposal of certain items pertaining to the LaBianca crimes.

In addition, as of certain interviews we have undertaken over the months, Miss Lake has some interesting data in her mind regarding the Gary Hinman murder, data which would in our opinion cast considerable light on the reality of that grim tragedy.

On Friday, October 30, there was a hearing to declare Tex Watson insane. Everybody knew that Watson was out of it.  The former all-district halfback for Farmersville, Texas High School was down from 190 pounds to 110!  One kept hearing from various officials, "Aw, he's just malingering!"  But there was and is some danger that he will die, and the last thing Sheriff Peter Pitchess wants is for Tex Watson to die of malnutrition in the Los Angeles County Jail.  So the human skeleton of Charles Watson has been shipped to Atascadero State Hospital, where probably they will thorazine him up for a few months and feed him some sort of liquid mounds bar through the nose for a while and then ship him back for trial- that is, if he doesn't die; and the secret gossip in the Hall of Justice is that death is imminent. The report to the court reads that he is "rapidly reverting to a fetal state."  And you can better believe the DA is not going to let Tex Watson into a nut hatch unless he is really in heavy orbit.  Even now, however, officials are very hesitant to say he is really insane, but rather say that "he's doing it to himself."

If he dies, it will be the fault of the District Attorney's office- because Charles Manson in front of witnesses, offered to bring him out of it.  Manson is alleged to have said, "Just give me 20 minutes with him alone and I will bring him back." 

Where was Sharon Tate on August 2, 1969?

Ed Sanders... On Death Row part 1

Los Angeles Free Press Vol. 7 No. 45 Issue # 329  Nov. 6, 1970

Beausoleil, Manson, Death Row & the gas chamber, revisited

Ed Sanders

It seemed incongruous to be discussing Frank Zappa with a condemned man on Death Row, San Quentin.  But we were, Beausoleil and I, sitting in a little yellow room together during a nervous hour wherein the subject went from murder to music to Tim Leary to Aleister Crowley.

Visiting San Quentin was wonderful.  I took a bus from San Francisco north to San Rafael and then copped a Yellow Cab to the austere bayside prison.  They zap you with a metal scanner; then you walk up the flower-lined road to the visitors turret, whereat you announce the name of the person you intend to visit.  The waiting room has benches similar to those in bus depot waiting rooms and the walls are lined with art works by inmates, all for sale.  There are display cases filled with handcrafted jewelry and leatherwork, cable car desk lamps and wood workings of various kinds.  Softly in the background plays the country music station.  Waiting to see Bob Beausoleil one was treated to Roger Miller, a Johnny Cash top 20 golden hits album commercial from Columbia Records, and the Tammy Wynette song about how difficult it is to be faithful to just one man, especially if he is a creep.

Beausoleil's name was called from the speaker system and we walked into the visitors room.  For condemned prisoners, visits are conducted in a private locked cell so I was placed immediately in this ten by six yellow room and clang clang the door was locked behind me.  Soon Bob arrived and relieved for us the grim sensation of being alone in a locked cell.  Beausoleil had heeded the Manson appeal to X the forehead, and his was almost healed.  He was attired in jeans and a blue denim work shirt, his chin covered with a short goatee.

He seemed calm enough.  One had heard many times of the strange change in the behavior of condemned men on Death Row, whereby they allegedly become rather brutish and choppily feral.  Not so, it seems, with Beausoleil, who seemed calm and rather placid, given the circumstances of possible future green lung invasion.

We talked of many things: of the days in San Francisco when Beausoleil lived with filmmaker Kenneth Anger and helped Anger make "Lucifer Rising";  of the Topanga Canyon days of 1968 when Beausoleil played an Indian scout in the immortal tennis shoe classic, Ramrodder; of the long ago days when he participated in those innocent Mother's freakouts.  "Frank used to let me get up on stage- sing harmony on the Oldies but Goodies- you know with Vito and the others," he recalled.  He mentioned how he visited Zappa in the spring of 1969 and tried to interest him in recording the Family; but evidently there was no interest.

Mr. Beausoleil is reticent in the area of conversation dealing with the murder of Gary Hinman.  As you know he fingered Mr. Manson out as the snuffer when he testified at his second trial, but since then he has given no indication that he is sticking by that story.  But none, either, that he is not sticking to his testimony.  Time will tell.

Whatever happened, Beausoleil is a now-generation American.  His parents are straight, law-abiding US citizens who pray before their meals.  During Bob Beausoleil's second trial we had lunch with them several times at the various hideous cafeterias in the downtown public buildings, and one heard prayers for the first time in ten years.  They stood up for their son with a Confucian fervor throughout his trials. 

It's hard to know what happened but certainly the Hornet God summoned by the early Acid Tests descended upon Robert Kenneth Beausoleil, who is legally dead.  And it is the media and their clients, the blood-thirsty ghoul-brains of the public, that will have sent him to the gas chamber.  For only after his association with Manson became public knowledge and it became obvious that if he were not given the death penalty then Charles Manson (AKA Devil) probably would not receive it- only then did Evelle Younger and his underlings decide to kill him.  It must ever be remembered in his first trial, ending in a hung jury, the prosecution did not ask for lung-snuff.  And for over a year the papers have buried thousands of important issues beneath a myriad of headlines and hype stories about this relatively unimportant series of murders.  You don't see any headlines about napalmed rice paddies.  You don't see any headlines about payoffs connected with this case. You don't see any conciliation or peace in the papers.  The newspapers are like a devilish sermon of fire, with their endless pages of ads of badly made life props, with their boring collations of butchery.  And Manson is an alcoholic editor's dream come true- oversexed, acid-gobbling, long-haired, nearly middle-aged, song-singing, devil-worshiping, bastard son of a teen-aged prostitute who thinks he's Jesus and who formerly was arrested for white slavery.  With people like Manson on the front page, you don't have to do any serious investigative reporting.  And the authorities can shoot as many Mexican-Americans as they want.  And the real criminals, the criminals with the computers and the oil slicks, walk around worshiped.

Meanwhile back at the Hall of Justice, the prosecution is preparing to rest their case.  Rudy Altobelli, the sharp witted gentleman who owns the house at 10050 Cielo Drive, testified about his encounter with Charles Manson on March 23, 1969, when Charlie came to the guest house looking for Terry Melcher.  Mr. Altobelli had met Manson before at Dennis Wilson's house. Altobelli testified that he told Manson that Terry was living out in Malibu, probably with his mother.

Irving Kanarek, when cross-examining Mr. Altobelli, almost created a few heart attacks in the defense camp when he asked Altobelli the following question:  "When was the first time, Mr. Altobelli,  that you had occasion to recall the proported presence of Mr. Manson on your premises in what you say is March of 1969? When was the first you had to recall it after it allegedly happened?"

Altobelli answered: "When I was flying to Rome with Sharon." Well, when he said this, everybody thought that Altobelli was about to gun down the whole helter-skelter motive for the murders.  Kanarek was quick to change the line of questioning, even though Altobelli interjected that he was willing to explain his answer.  Nor did the prosecutor, Mr. Bugliosi, go into it on redirect examination.

Interestingly, Altobelli testified that when he was rushing back from Europe after the murders, he thought of Manson as a possible suspect but did not blow it to police when they questioned him.

Then the prosecution was going to bring to the stand a Sgt. Maupin, who works in the Hall of Justice escorting prisoners around. Allegedly, Manson (last June 10) offered Maupin $100,000 to help him escape.  The idea is absurd that Charlie would have 100 grand laying around- unless the rumors that Manson has two secret sponsors are true- it is so absurd that it would seem to me to detract from the main body of evidence the prosecution has presented, rather than add to it.  In any case something must have happened in chambers to prevent it, because I don't believe that the good sergeant got to testify in front of the jury.

Brooks Postin (sic), famous in Manson circles for his ability to enter into the trance state at will, testified about the meaning of "Helter Skelter" in terms of the prosecution's contention that Sharon Tate, Jay Sebring, Voityck Frykowski , Steve Parent and Abigail Folger died as part of a deliberate scheme to trigger off the destruction of the United States by black militants.  I mean, come off it.  The real story will be told, and it is already typed and locked away safely. 

Paul Watkins, famous for his National Enquirer "I Was Satan's Second In Command" article of many months ago, testified also about Helter Skelter.  Watkins was at one point, according to his testimony, an avid follower of Mr. Manson.  He thought Manson to be Jesus, in fact.  Ron Hughes asked some interesting questions of Mr. Watkins on cross-examination, such as:  "Can you tell us about Charlie's power?"  To which Watkins answered, "It's a maze of agreements and implied agreements."  Hughes also asked a couple of questions about a legendary event in the history of the Family:  The Miracle at the House on Gresham Street.  Manson, according to legend, had his membrum virile bitten in twain by a young lady named Bo in the spring of 1969, causing blood to spew in all directions.  Manson, through magical healing powers, was able to sew himself together and heal the sutures, all in one occult swoosh, so even the scars were removed.  Watkins testified that he, himself, had not seen the event, but that it occurred when Manson and the others were living on Gresham Street in Canoga Park.

Stay tuned for the last half of this article that hopefully will run tomorrow.