Louise, what do you make of the following statement, from No More Tomorrows by Alice LaBianca, c.1990pg413 ? "He(Leno) was to remain at Gateway as a consultant, if needed, and (brother-in-law) Pete (DeSantis) would buy Leno's shares over a period of ten years. .... "I've got to get out of this town, Pete, and can't unless I can sell my shares," Leno tried to explain. "It's a matter of life and death. I'm asking for my life, Pete!" His voice was near panic now as he strained to make Pete understand the importance of what he was asking. .... "Mom, we can't live in that house any longer, We can't sleep and never know when it will be ransacked again. You're the only one who can help me," he pleaded."
Was you father just exgerrating, because he no longer wanted to run the business, or would he have made such a statement only if he believed it to be true?
Louise said... 5 or 6, including 1)burglaries AND 2)creepy crawly type stuff ....stuff stolen: minibikes, drum set and other music equipment (stored in back apt); in-house burglaries, coins and other valuables
Sounds like a group of neighborhood teenage mischief meisters. Not a professional burglar, in any case. Louise, do you know how entry was achieved? I'm assuming Rosemary and Leno would have been locking their doors and windows assiduously after their first incident..
Louise, what do you make of the following statement, from No More Tomorrows by Alice LaBianca, c.1990pg413 ? "I've got to get out of this town, Pete, and can't unless I can sell my shares," Leno tried to explain. "It's a matter of life and death. I'm asking for my life, Pete!" His voice was near panic now as he strained to make Pete understand the importance of what he was asking. .... "Mom, we can't live in that house any longer, We can't sleep and never know when it will be ransacked again. You're the only one who can help me," he pleaded."
No offence, and maybe it's the former thief in me {😬}, but it sounds like the clutching-at-straws desperation deflection that someone who is in trouble might employ when they want to take the heat and attention from their own activity. It's like dragging in any and everything, even amplifying what might be truths, making them out to be way more important than they, in fact, are.
do you know how entry was achieved? I'm assuming Rosemary and Leno would have been locking their doors and windows assiduously after their first incident
I have long been puzzled by Rosemary continually leaving her house keys in the open car, after the house had been burgled, even just once, let alone multiple times. And where John Fokianos states that she appeared to be rather shaken by the events at Cielo the night before, I'm flabbergasted that she still left the keys in the car. Granted, I guess I'm judging by my own standards of what I might have done, but nevertheless, it's surprising to me.
Matt said:
Well, we don't seem done here. LOL
It pretty much always fascinates me which threads make it over the 150 mark. One just can never tell beforehand. Well, I can't !
GRIMTRAVELLER: I think you might consider the following Author's Note in my mom's introductory pages: "mostly fact, some fiction. The characters are depicted from my perspective alone. The conclusions are mine and subject to individual interpretation." I have questioned that particular passage myself of late, but not for the reason you are bringing up. It just doesn't sound like something my dad would even say to his mom or anyone, really. I don't know why they were both so nonchalant and casual about locking up everything.
Lots of mysteries for me as well! And since people seem to actually be reading No More Tomorrows searching for clues, which I totally understand, remember they split up in 1956 so I highly doubt that the dialogue was real after that. Yes, it is probable that Leno was trying to cajole his way out of Gateway towards the end, although I never heard it exactly. I just can't imagine him using a fear tactic like that to his mother but who knows?
STARVIEGO: I don't recall my dad being a man who exaggerated; if anything, he understated the issues more often than not. Not to Pete or his mother, but of course I wasn't there either.
STARVIEGO: So basically I am guessing that my mom added that dialogue mainly for a dramatic effect. I wouldn't put too much energy into it. However, the letters to Cory on pgs. 409 and 412 are authentic. I've seen them both. Unfortunately, Dad and Rose evidently did not think to secure the old house more assiduously, as you say. If memory serves, I think they said the burglars got in through the louvered windows. Back then, those types of windows were quite easy to take out and slide into a house, and the ONLY way I know this is because we'd often go through OUR louvered windows in Newport Beach if we forgot our keys. Honestly, people were really lax about security back in those days. I don't know why.
TABORFRESCA: Thank you thank you thank you for posting the Hard Copy link! I was looking all over the internet for it only a few days ago. I like that one. She reads the authentic letter, tells a little about Leno's temperament etc.
GRIMTRAVELLER: I am flabbergasted they would even return to the house at all after the stop at Fokianos' newsstand. They weren't THAT broke. They should have checked in at a safe hotel and then everything would have turned out very differently. Her T-bird? That was insured.
MATT: Anyway I am going to be taking a little break from answering questions, even though it has actually been fun in a way! Looking forward to seeing your next post. Thank you for all your hard work.
Thank you Louise for taking the time to answer all of our questions. It's so rare that someone with personal connections to this case does that. Kudos!
I have questioned that particular passage myself of late, but not for the reason you are bringing up. It just doesn't sound like something my dad would even say to his mom or anyone, really....remember they split up in 1956 so I highly doubt that the dialogue was real after that
To be honest with you, going back many years, I've never believed Leno ever said that. When I discovered that it came from Alice, I wondered how in the world she could know such a thing, let alone recall such dialogue. When you earlier said "(This is my mom talking) And I must tell you in all honesty that my mom was usually drinking before she started talking about it!", I thought I wouldn't say anything, but it did match a thought that had nagged at me for about 8 years. It's so rare for me to see former wives being charitable about their former spouse's current wife/partner and for that matter, vice-versa. I guess many of us are in families where we've seen that happen and we don't want to come down heavily on the person {it could be our Mum, our sister, a loved auntie, whatever} because we love them, but it leaves us kind of uncomfortable too.
I am flabbergasted they would even return to the house at all after the stop at Fokianos' newsstand. They weren't THAT broke. They should have checked in at a safe hotel
I'd initially share that feeling. I guess the one thing that would give me pause would be that they literally had just heard about Cielo. It was John Fokianos that told them about it. And they'd had a long journey, lots of driving. And to be honest, until the LaBianca incident, while there was shock about the Cielo event, I doubt most people thought it could seriously come their way. It was what happened at Waverly that really put the cat among the pigeons and started the fear, according to Vince Buglios, in "Helter Skelter."
I am going to be taking a little break from answering questions
GRIMTRAVELLER: It is true, though, that my mom and dad remained on good terms after their divorce. They talked about some things and loaned each other money here and there--as she discussed on pgs. 401-404 (if you have the book). Beyond that, she spent alot of time after the murders speculating... and yes she liked to drink! She was quite a character and I miss her dearly, even though I didn't always agree with her ♥️
Louise, Totally understandable that you want to take a break. Everyone here appreciates your presence so much. Re: your father and Rosemary not locking the house up or being seemingly rather casual about home security, I've also been puzzled about that, but I also grew up in that era where people had an entirely different approach than today. It was fascinating about the louvered windows you describe, and how you could push them inward quite easily to get into your own home in NB. It seems strange to younger people today that no one really thought seriously about locks and windows and doors and all that, but it's pretty much true. When I was a kid, we locked the front and back door, but never gave a thought to any of the windows. And plenty of people didn't lock their car doors or even their homes. I'm sure my home would have been extremely easy to break into as would have been the homes of any of my friends. Of course, all that changed after Aug 69, but before that time, it simply wasn't a concern of any serious magnitude. Also, I totally understand why your dad and Rosemary went home, even with her heightened concerns re: Cielo at the newsstand. There wouldn't have been any way in the world they could have known such a disaster was headed their way. If she'd insisted on going to a hotel instead of going home, your father probably would have thought that was unnecessary. Plus, they had the boat with them, and were tired from their travels. It would have been interesting to know what they talked about on the way home.
RETROMOVIEFAN: Thank you for your kind words. It's nice to know that people appreciate my input! It's always been a difficult subject for me to talk about in day-to-day conversation, not does it come up too often. In my "regular" life, in fact, I keep a low profile and I like it that way!
NOR does it come up too often--only here and on Cielodrive, where I am reading all the old news articles and that is quite an eye-opener for me. Never read them back then.
on Cielodrive, where I am reading all the old news articles and that is quite an eye-opener for me
There are so many old news articles of the time on Cielo's site and I've long found them fascinating. So much of our discussion over the years has been with the benefit of some hindsight and it's hard sometimes to pull away from that and try to put oneself into the mindset of the times. It's also easy to be perhaps unnecessarily harsh towards some of the investigators and what they were doing in the fall of 1969. Those articles of the time give great perspective.
Retromoviefan said:
being seemingly rather casual about home security...It seems strange to younger people today that no one really thought seriously about locks and windows and doors and all that...And plenty of people didn't lock their car doors or even their homes
I did delivery work for 20 years and for the first 13 of those, I never locked my van while I was out on the road. It was only when someone stole 4 really expensive printer cartridges that I started doing so. My boss was amazed I hadn't locked it all those years and wasn't happy ! And where a church I was part of used to meet, on the estate opposite, I was amazed to see that so many of the residents left their doors open. Even on the estate where I live now {and we've been here since 2003}, up until very recently, some of the residents used to leave their front doors open. And there's only ever been one burglary attempt in all that time. But it always made me look twice, because although I used to leave my van open {I could appear at any time so I always thought, why would a thief take the risk ~ until they did !! 🥴}, when it came to any place I've ever lived, I've always been very security conscious, even in 1969. My parents were like that, always shut the doors when you get in, put the chain on and lock the door before going to bed etc. One night, both my parents were out {my Mum was a night nurse} and my older sister and I stayed up late to watch TV and when we were going to bed, found the back door wide open and the wind howling through the kitchen. That scared the life out of us and stuck in my mind because it was so rare for something like that to happen. But there have been many places here in England where people would leave their doors unlocked. Community spirit and all that. I always found it strange.
Louise, Your insights and viewpoints are absolutely appreciated! I totally understand why you have kept a low profile. For your own mental health, if nothing else. And certainly all the "social media" of today, which can attract a ton of weirdos and privacy invaders, it's oftentimes not a good atmosphere. It's great that you are reading a lot of the old news articles at Cielodrive. That is a very valuable site/resource for sure. When I was growing up and these crimes happened, obviously there was no internet. There was no wider or more indepth resource apart from the daily newspaper to get information. That always frustrated me, because I knew there was more - a lot more - that most people never found out about. Even during the trial, all most of us in the general public had was our morning newspaper. And then the few books that came out during that time frame, like Helter Skelter. Compare that to the huge amount of information nowadays available online. It's helped give a more accurate picture of those two nights in August and filled in many gaps of knowledge in my mind. Naturally it's also raised more questions, such as why Steven Parent backed into the wooden gate at Cielo. Was he escaping? Had he already seen something? Was he just coincidentally careless with his car that night? Was Watson lying about the time sequence of his attack on Parent? And so forth. These killers have lied about various things, so it's good that people still analyze the cases, to find the full truth whenever possible.
Yes, I appreciate that--we all deserve to know the truth wherever it may lead. I'm currently leaning towards the Howard True version as told in that one Hard Copy interview my mom was in, c. 1994. Could be more to it though.
That's interesting about the UK and people not locking doors, etc. And your experience of having expensive things stolen from your van illustrates the point that unfortunately people sometimes don't lock up until a bad thing happens. I think there's always been a lot of cultural differences between UK and USA in terms of crime. Maybe a perception in UK that crime isn't as prevalent there (for various reasons) vs. in the US, big city crime out of control, etc. I live in a big metro area and coincidentally, two months ago someone tried to break into my home at 3am, while I was home, asleep in bed. Thankfully I always lock up as tight as possible, but if this guy had wanted to, he could have gotten in. And I have cameras (unfortunately it wasn't pointed at his face so couldn't identify him). Even with cameras, criminals are more and more brazen.
The mindset today is so much different, at least in the U.S. In the 60's, people simply didn't go around breaking into homes. I'm not saying there were no break ins or burglary, but it wasn't a widespread, daily occurrence like it is today. And certainly the suburbs of California where I grew up, I'd never heard of anyone being broken into. Apart from kids doing petty crimes like stealing a bike or something, no one felt the need to obsessively lock doors especially in the daytime. Clearly the LaBiancas were experiencing something strange at Waverly with the odd burglaries. And I do think it was the beginning of the unraveling of society, with the "pot parties" or other criminal activities that were going on at Harold True's home next door to them. In my area today, I can track via an app at least 10-15 or more crimes each and every day, ranging from assaults, to car theft, to burglary to domestic violence. That's EVERY DAY in a five mile radius of my home. People around me do a lot more than lock doors, that's for sure!
I think there's always been a lot of cultural differences between UK and USA in terms of crime. Maybe a perception in UK that crime isn't as prevalent there (for various reasons) vs. in the US, big city crime out of control, etc
That was certainly the case up until the summer of 1997. I remember talking to a woman from Harlem that summer {actually, it might have been '98} and it was in the aftermath of a newspaper article that stated that London was now more dangerous than New York. It was interesting because being a native of Harlem, she didn't think of New York as being in any way dangerous, but she was nervy about London. I, in turn, although I knew there were some really hairy parts of London, remember being really surprised by the article's conclusion. As time has gone on though, I'm not. There has sometimes been a tendency here among a cross-section of the population to copy what happens in various American cities and in what is perceived as elements of American culture/society. Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.
233 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 233 of 233Thank you, MILLY JAMES
Well, we don't seem done here. LOL. I moved this back to the top. I'll hold off on the next post until y'all are ready.
Ready😎
Thank you for posting this, Matt!!!
Louise, what do you make of the following statement, from No More Tomorrows by Alice LaBianca, c.1990pg413 ?
"He(Leno) was to remain at Gateway as a consultant, if needed, and (brother-in-law) Pete (DeSantis) would buy Leno's shares over a period of ten years. .... "I've got to get out of this town, Pete, and can't unless I can sell my shares," Leno tried to explain. "It's a matter of life and death. I'm asking for my life, Pete!" His voice was near panic now as he strained to make Pete understand the importance of what he was asking. .... "Mom, we can't live in that house any longer, We can't sleep and never know when it will be ransacked again. You're the only one who can help me," he pleaded."
Was you father just exgerrating, because he no longer wanted to run the business, or would he have made such a statement only if he believed it to be true?
Louise said...
5 or 6, including 1)burglaries AND 2)creepy crawly type stuff
....stuff stolen: minibikes, drum set and other music equipment (stored in back apt); in-house burglaries, coins and other valuables
Sounds like a group of neighborhood teenage mischief meisters. Not a professional burglar, in any case. Louise, do you know how entry was achieved? I'm assuming Rosemary and Leno would have been locking their doors and windows assiduously after their first incident..
starviego said:
Louise, what do you make of the following statement, from No More Tomorrows by Alice LaBianca, c.1990pg413 ?
"I've got to get out of this town, Pete, and can't unless I can sell my shares," Leno tried to explain. "It's a matter of life and death. I'm asking for my life, Pete!" His voice was near panic now as he strained to make Pete understand the importance of what he was asking. .... "Mom, we can't live in that house any longer, We can't sleep and never know when it will be ransacked again. You're the only one who can help me," he pleaded."
No offence, and maybe it's the former thief in me {😬}, but it sounds like the clutching-at-straws desperation deflection that someone who is in trouble might employ when they want to take the heat and attention from their own activity. It's like dragging in any and everything, even amplifying what might be truths, making them out to be way more important than they, in fact, are.
do you know how entry was achieved? I'm assuming Rosemary and Leno would have been locking their doors and windows assiduously after their first incident
I have long been puzzled by Rosemary continually leaving her house keys in the open car, after the house had been burgled, even just once, let alone multiple times. And where John Fokianos states that she appeared to be rather shaken by the events at Cielo the night before, I'm flabbergasted that she still left the keys in the car. Granted, I guess I'm judging by my own standards of what I might have done, but nevertheless, it's surprising to me.
Matt said:
Well, we don't seem done here. LOL
It pretty much always fascinates me which threads make it over the 150 mark. One just can never tell beforehand. Well, I can't !
The following link shows some home movie footage of Leno. It also shows Alice visiting Waverly with her grandson for a short TV interview.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nhxNSd9MRvQ
GRIMTRAVELLER: I think you might consider the following Author's Note in my mom's introductory pages: "mostly fact, some fiction. The characters are depicted from my perspective alone. The conclusions are mine and subject to individual interpretation." I have questioned that particular passage myself of late, but not for the reason you are bringing up. It just doesn't sound like something my dad would even say to his mom or anyone, really. I don't know why they were both so nonchalant and casual about locking up everything.
Lots of mysteries for me as well! And since people seem to actually be reading No More Tomorrows searching for clues, which I totally understand, remember they split up in 1956 so I highly doubt that the dialogue was real after that. Yes, it is probable that Leno was trying to cajole his way out of Gateway towards the end, although I never heard it exactly. I just can't imagine him using a fear tactic like that to his mother but who knows?
STARVIEGO: I don't recall my dad being a man who exaggerated; if anything, he understated the issues more often than not. Not to Pete or his mother, but of course I wasn't there either.
STARVIEGO: So basically I am guessing that my mom added that dialogue mainly for a dramatic effect. I wouldn't put too much energy into it. However, the letters to Cory on pgs. 409 and 412 are authentic. I've seen them both.
Unfortunately, Dad and Rose evidently did not think to secure the old house more assiduously, as you say. If memory serves, I think they said the burglars got in through the louvered windows. Back then, those types of windows were quite easy to take out and slide into a house, and the ONLY way I know this is because we'd often go through OUR louvered windows in Newport Beach if we forgot our keys. Honestly, people were really lax about security back in those days. I don't know why.
TABORFRESCA: Thank you thank you thank you for posting the Hard Copy link! I was looking all over the internet for it only a few days ago. I like that one. She reads the authentic letter, tells a little about Leno's temperament etc.
GRIMTRAVELLER: I am flabbergasted they would even return to the house at all after the stop at Fokianos' newsstand. They weren't THAT broke. They should have checked in at a safe hotel and then everything would have turned out very differently. Her T-bird? That was insured.
MATT: Anyway I am going to be taking a little break from answering questions, even though it has actually been fun in a way! Looking forward to seeing your next post. Thank you for all your hard work.
One more to GRIMTRAVELLER: Oh, I see what you are saying-- the house keys were in the car, too... weird.
Thank you Louise for taking the time to answer all of our questions. It's so rare that someone with personal connections to this case does that. Kudos!
Louise said:
I have questioned that particular passage myself of late, but not for the reason you are bringing up. It just doesn't sound like something my dad would even say to his mom or anyone, really....remember they split up in 1956 so I highly doubt that the dialogue was real after that
To be honest with you, going back many years, I've never believed Leno ever said that. When I discovered that it came from Alice, I wondered how in the world she could know such a thing, let alone recall such dialogue. When you earlier said "(This is my mom talking) And I must tell you in all honesty that my mom was usually drinking before she started talking about it!", I thought I wouldn't say anything, but it did match a thought that had nagged at me for about 8 years. It's so rare for me to see former wives being charitable about their former spouse's current wife/partner and for that matter, vice-versa. I guess many of us are in families where we've seen that happen and we don't want to come down heavily on the person {it could be our Mum, our sister, a loved auntie, whatever} because we love them, but it leaves us kind of uncomfortable too.
I am flabbergasted they would even return to the house at all after the stop at Fokianos' newsstand. They weren't THAT broke. They should have checked in at a safe hotel
I'd initially share that feeling. I guess the one thing that would give me pause would be that they literally had just heard about Cielo. It was John Fokianos that told them about it. And they'd had a long journey, lots of driving. And to be honest, until the LaBianca incident, while there was shock about the Cielo event, I doubt most people thought it could seriously come their way. It was what happened at Waverly that really put the cat among the pigeons and started the fear, according to Vince Buglios, in "Helter Skelter."
I am going to be taking a little break from answering questions
I don't blame you in the slightest !
It's interesting for me, too, to answer questions here and there--liking the interaction on topics that have been on my mind over the years!
GRIMTRAVELLER: It is true, though, that my mom and dad remained on good terms after their divorce. They talked about some things and loaned each other money here and there--as she discussed on pgs. 401-404 (if you have the book). Beyond that, she spent alot of time after the murders speculating... and yes she liked to drink! She was quite a character and I miss her dearly, even though I didn't always agree with her ♥️
I think I'd have returned home too. It's safe there after all isn't it? Like a bunny returning to its hutch.
Thanks Louise & Grim et al. It's been a marvellous discussion. Diolch!
Louise:
Besides, it was very smoggy--can't blame that on TLB, thank God!
People don't realize how bad it was, day after day, in most of LA during the 60/70s.
It's way different now. Better.
Louise,
Totally understandable that you want to take a break. Everyone here appreciates your presence so much. Re: your father and Rosemary not locking the house up or being seemingly rather casual about home security, I've also been puzzled about that, but I also grew up in that era where people had an entirely different approach than today. It was fascinating about the louvered windows you describe, and how you could push them inward quite easily to get into your own home in NB. It seems strange to younger people today that no one really thought seriously about locks and windows and doors and all that, but it's pretty much true. When I was a kid, we locked the front and back door, but never gave a thought to any of the windows. And plenty of people didn't lock their car doors or even their homes. I'm sure my home would have been extremely easy to break into as would have been the homes of any of my friends. Of course, all that changed after Aug 69, but before that time, it simply wasn't a concern of any serious magnitude. Also, I totally understand why your dad and Rosemary went home, even with her heightened concerns re: Cielo at the newsstand. There wouldn't have been any way in the world they could have known such a disaster was headed their way. If she'd insisted on going to a hotel instead of going home, your father probably would have thought that was unnecessary. Plus, they had the boat with them, and were tired from their travels. It would have been interesting to know what they talked about on the way home.
RETROMOVIEFAN: Thank you for your kind words. It's nice to know that people appreciate my input! It's always been a difficult subject for me to talk about in day-to-day conversation, not does it come up too often. In my "regular" life, in fact, I keep a low profile and I like it that way!
NOR does it come up too often--only here and on Cielodrive, where I am reading all the old news articles and that is quite an eye-opener for me. Never read them back then.
Louise said:
on Cielodrive, where I am reading all the old news articles and that is quite an eye-opener for me
There are so many old news articles of the time on Cielo's site and I've long found them fascinating. So much of our discussion over the years has been with the benefit of some hindsight and it's hard sometimes to pull away from that and try to put oneself into the mindset of the times. It's also easy to be perhaps unnecessarily harsh towards some of the investigators and what they were doing in the fall of 1969. Those articles of the time give great perspective.
Retromoviefan said:
being seemingly rather casual about home security...It seems strange to younger people today that no one really thought seriously about locks and windows and doors and all that...And plenty of people didn't lock their car doors or even their homes
I did delivery work for 20 years and for the first 13 of those, I never locked my van while I was out on the road. It was only when someone stole 4 really expensive printer cartridges that I started doing so. My boss was amazed I hadn't locked it all those years and wasn't happy !
And where a church I was part of used to meet, on the estate opposite, I was amazed to see that so many of the residents left their doors open. Even on the estate where I live now {and we've been here since 2003}, up until very recently, some of the residents used to leave their front doors open. And there's only ever been one burglary attempt in all that time. But it always made me look twice, because although I used to leave my van open {I could appear at any time so I always thought, why would a thief take the risk ~ until they did !! 🥴}, when it came to any place I've ever lived, I've always been very security conscious, even in 1969. My parents were like that, always shut the doors when you get in, put the chain on and lock the door before going to bed etc. One night, both my parents were out {my Mum was a night nurse} and my older sister and I stayed up late to watch TV and when we were going to bed, found the back door wide open and the wind howling through the kitchen. That scared the life out of us and stuck in my mind because it was so rare for something like that to happen. But there have been many places here in England where people would leave their doors unlocked. Community spirit and all that. I always found it strange.
Gateway Markets from White Pages (Central and NE).
Possibly: San Gabriel, South San Gabriel, Arcadia, Montebello, Alhambra, Monterey Park, La Habra
#1. 1525 Cyprs Ave, CAptl-9067
#2. 1007 Cyprs Ave, CAptl-9459
#3. 513 W Ave 26, CAptl-9954
#3. 2619 NFigroa, 225-9954
#4. 3342 Verdugo Rd, CLevid6-9255
#5. ??
#6. 2524 WBevrly, Mtb. PArkvw1-9203
#7. 5449 NRosemd, SGab. AT6-9850
#8. 440 WTunasDr, SGab. AT1-9395
#9. 409 WVally, Alh. AT1-9160,
#10. 100 NGarfld, Alh. AT1-9094
#11. 2532 WVally, Alh. AT1-9253
#12. 8219 EGarvy, S SGab. AT0-9295
#13. 160 EGarvy, MPk. AT0-9323
#14. 2050 WCentrl, LHab. OW7-9170
#15. 633 WDuarte, Arc. HI6-9011
???. 15375 GaleAve, LaPnte. ED6-9209
Ofc. 1527 Cypress Ave, CAptl-6185
Ofc. 5327 Vally, CAptl5-2361
Ofc. 2623 NFigroa, 225-2361
Credit Union 40t9WVally, Alh. AT1-2993
Credit Union 5730 NRosemd, TCty. AT6-7874
https://www.loc.gov/resource/usteledirec.usteledirec02458/?sp=151&st=image&r=0.169,0.361,0.072,0.083,0
https://www.loc.gov/resource/usteledirec.usteledirec02319/?sp=235&st=image&r=0.385,0.25,0.044,0.05,0
https://www.loc.gov/resource/usteledirec.usteledirec02455/?sp=175&st=image&r=0.341,0.121,0.108,0.125,0
https://www.loc.gov/resource/usteledirec.usteledirec02462/?sp=159&st=image&r=0.363,0.24,0.115,0.133,0
https://www.loc.gov/resource/usteledirec.usteledirec02390/?sp=236&st=image&r=0.039,0.062,0.093,0.107,0
TABORFRESCA: It looks like you found the address for Store#16! La Puenta. That is the only one I didn't have on my list. Thank you 🙂
Louise,
Your insights and viewpoints are absolutely appreciated! I totally understand why you have kept a low profile. For your own mental health, if nothing else. And certainly all the "social media" of today, which can attract a ton of weirdos and privacy invaders, it's oftentimes not a good atmosphere. It's great that you are reading a lot of the old news articles at Cielodrive. That is a very valuable site/resource for sure. When I was growing up and these crimes happened, obviously there was no internet. There was no wider or more indepth resource apart from the daily newspaper to get information. That always frustrated me, because I knew there was more - a lot more - that most people never found out about. Even during the trial, all most of us in the general public had was our morning newspaper. And then the few books that came out during that time frame, like Helter Skelter. Compare that to the huge amount of information nowadays available online. It's helped give a more accurate picture of those two nights in August and filled in many gaps of knowledge in my mind. Naturally it's also raised more questions, such as why Steven Parent backed into the wooden gate at Cielo. Was he escaping? Had he already seen something? Was he just coincidentally careless with his car that night? Was Watson lying about the time sequence of his attack on Parent? And so forth. These killers have lied about various things, so it's good that people still analyze the cases, to find the full truth whenever possible.
Yes, I appreciate that--we all deserve to know the truth wherever it may lead. I'm currently leaning towards the Howard True version as told in that one Hard Copy interview my mom was in, c. 1994. Could be more to it though.
grimtraveller,
That's interesting about the UK and people not locking doors, etc. And your experience of having expensive things stolen from your van illustrates the point that unfortunately people sometimes don't lock up until a bad thing happens. I think there's always been a lot of cultural differences between UK and USA in terms of crime. Maybe a perception in UK that crime isn't as prevalent there (for various reasons) vs. in the US, big city crime out of control, etc. I live in a big metro area and coincidentally, two months ago someone tried to break into my home at 3am, while I was home, asleep in bed. Thankfully I always lock up as tight as possible, but if this guy had wanted to, he could have gotten in. And I have cameras (unfortunately it wasn't pointed at his face so couldn't identify him). Even with cameras, criminals are more and more brazen.
The mindset today is so much different, at least in the U.S. In the 60's, people simply didn't go around breaking into homes. I'm not saying there were no break ins or burglary, but it wasn't a widespread, daily occurrence like it is today. And certainly the suburbs of California where I grew up, I'd never heard of anyone being broken into. Apart from kids doing petty crimes like stealing a bike or something, no one felt the need to obsessively lock doors especially in the daytime. Clearly the LaBiancas were experiencing something strange at Waverly with the odd burglaries. And I do think it was the beginning of the unraveling of society, with the "pot parties" or other criminal activities that were going on at Harold True's home next door to them. In my area today, I can track via an app at least 10-15 or more crimes each and every day, ranging from assaults, to car theft, to burglary to domestic violence. That's EVERY DAY in a five mile radius of my home. People around me do a lot more than lock doors, that's for sure!
Retromoviefan said:
I think there's always been a lot of cultural differences between UK and USA in terms of crime. Maybe a perception in UK that crime isn't as prevalent there (for various reasons) vs. in the US, big city crime out of control, etc
That was certainly the case up until the summer of 1997. I remember talking to a woman from Harlem that summer {actually, it might have been '98} and it was in the aftermath of a newspaper article that stated that London was now more dangerous than New York. It was interesting because being a native of Harlem, she didn't think of New York as being in any way dangerous, but she was nervy about London. I, in turn, although I knew there were some really hairy parts of London, remember being really surprised by the article's conclusion. As time has gone on though, I'm not. There has sometimes been a tendency here among a cross-section of the population to copy what happens in various American cities and in what is perceived as elements of American culture/society. Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.
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