Friday, June 14, 2013

High Society Manson Interview June 1985

This interview appeared in the June 1985 issue of High Society magazine.  It is the second part of a two part interview by Linda Francischelli.  The first part, which was in the May 1985 issue, can be found at various places online.  This second part of that interview is a lot harder to come by and certainly less read.  It's a great, informative interview, not at all bat shit crazy.


CHARLES MANSON

In a candid conversation with HIGH SOCIETY Charles Manson talks about drugs, Presidents Reagan and Nixon and late Beach Boy Dennis Wilson.

Last month, in High Society's exclusive interview with Charles Manson, he discussed the 1969 Hinman/Tate/LaBianca murders, the origin of the circle of friends -- a hippie cult known as the Family -- and Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney Vincent Bugliosi's explanation of the crimes' motivations -- a gory tale he called "Helter Skelter."   Bugliosi convinced a jury that it was an interpretation of the Beatles' "White Album" that drove Manson and Family members t take the lives of eight people.  Charles Manson disputes this, however.  "Helter Skelter is a night club in the desert," he said.  "And the D.A. took it and made it into a motive for a crime -- and he sold it."  Manson also did not like the use of the word Family.  "What's the Family?" he chastised.  "The D.A. had to have the Family in order to win the conviction.

Part II of this interview focuses directly on three of the most publicized crimes of this century and delves into Beach Boy Dennis Wilson's involvement with Charles Manson and his circle.  It was Wilson who introduced Manson to Gregg Jakobson, a talent scout who was married to veteran comedian Lou Costello's daughter, and who, on August 9, 1968 -- exactly one year to the day before the Tate murders -- had arranged a recording session for Manson at a studio in Van Nuys.  Jakobson introduced Manson to actress doris Day's son, TV/record producer Terry Melcher.  Jakobson tried to persuade Melcher to record Manson, but after listening to his groups unusual music, Melcher decided against doing the session.

As we approached the California Medical Facility in Vacaville where Charles Manson is incarcerated, for the first time since we had secured the interview, I felt apprehension.  It's an awesome place, rows of sprawling buildings enclosed behind fences, complete with a watchtower and armed guards.  The guns pointed down at us reminded me of a prison scene breakout scene from an old Cagney movie, but we were very aware of their seriousness.  There are a lot of violent hostile people housed in the Vacaville compound, and for one brief moment I wondered why I had not listened to my mother when she said: "Do you have to do this crazy thing?"

It took over three months to finalize our negotiations and all the details with the prison officials.  Because it is so difficult to communicate with someone in prison, especially on a daily basis by telephone, we relied heavily on the assistance of a close personal friend of Manson's.  When we arrived, it was late in the day, and we decided to take advantage of the fleeting light and get some pictures of the facility from the road.  No sooner had our photographer begun to when armed guards came running, one of them with his hand on his gun in a practiced precautionary measure.  "You're taking pictures!" he yelled.  "That's not allowed."  The reason for this security is to prevent prison escape routes from being documented on film, but we were granted permission for a few shots.

Next came the search.  This is when I found out that the contents of my pocketbook were more significant than I had ever considered.  No opened packs of cigarettes, no cash over $20, no credit cards, emery boards or postage stamps, and so on.  We had been told in advance that we should not come dressed in denim clothing.  The inmates wear denim and it identifies them to guards and prison officials who are constantly on watch.

The wait for Manson to be brought down from housing to the attorney's visiting room, a small, glass enclosed cubicle where our interview was conducted, was a long one which dissipated some of my anxieties.  Charles Manson is a notorious legend in American history, and I looked forward to meeting him face to face and looking him straight in the eyes -- despite warnings by well meaning friends who believe Manson is capable of mind-control.  It is important, I think, to say that no time during the interview did I see a single trace of the raving lunatic I was led to believe Charles Manson is.  He was animated, very talkative, and sometimes rambled from one subject to the next, but was lucid, keen minded and very articulate.

High Society thanks Charles Manson for this interview and hopes you will find it as interesting as we did.

HIGH SOCIETY: Bobby Beausoleil was arrested for the Gary Hinman murder on August 6, 1969.  He called you the next day and asked for help.  Were the Tate murders which took place on August 9th, then planned to be similar to the Hinman murder, to throw the authorities off the track and convince them Bobby was innocent?

CHARLES MANSON:  The final tip on that circle was, get your brother out of jail.  How do I do that?  What the hell do I care how you do it?  Pay him!  Pay him what you owe him, or I'll pay him what you owe him.  Someone says, "We'll get him a lawyer."  And someone else says, If you get him a lawyer, all lawyers do is lie and take the money."  So then you go back into your system, and you ask who killed those people?  The lawyers, because we can't get no representation.

HS: Then you did send Charles Watson, Susan Atkins and the others to the Tate house?

CM:  Wait a minute, man.  I didn't say I sent anybody anywhere.  This is just a conversation in that circle.  Then I said, "I'm leaving this circle, because this is going straight back to the penitentiary, and I'm not going back to jail for none of you assholes."  They said, "Oh, brother, don't leave us.  We need you.  We love you."  And I said, "Look, man, don't put tags on my toes.  I've been through this before.  I'm solo on this outlaw trail, and I'm walking on my own ability.  Do what you do.   Pay your debts the way you pay them.  I had to fight four times for you, put my life on the line.  Here, you lock your hands and stand up for yourselves.  Don't ask me to stand up for you."

HS: But before Sharon Tate moved into that house, Terry Melcher lived there and --

CM: This interview isn't suppose to be about all this madness.  Do you want me to evoke all that bullshit again?

HS: What I'm trying to get at is --

CM:  Look here, if we had two or three weeks to sit down and sort it all out to where it is explainable....

HS:  I'm trying to ask you about the connection between Hinman, who was a musician, and --

CM:  Hinman was not a musician.  He never played anything in his life.  He played a little piano for his mother when he was about six years old, and he got a job teaching.  Bobby was a musician.  Hinman taught little kids.  You go to a studio musician and ask him what kind of a musician teaches on consignment for a music store.  It's a sham, you know.

HS:  What I see is Hinman killed, then people at the home where Terry Melcher had lived, and then the LaBianca's, whose former neighbor happened to have been Harold True, and it was at True's house that you and members of the circle had attended LSD parties before True moved to another location.  Were the Tate/LaBianca murders errors?  Were they to be, instead, Melcher or True -- revenge murders for the music deals that had gone down bad?  Didn't you want to be a rock singer?

CM:  See, again you got it backwards.

HS:  Explain it to me.

CM:  As I explained, man.  I was raised up playing Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby, Mel Torme, Eddie  Gorme.  I wanted to be in a Marrakech band at one time.  I wanted to be a bullfighter at one time.  I wanted to be a racecar driver.  I had a million fantasies, you know, but when I grew up and I faced the reality of what is, I felt differently.  I'll give you an example.  I went to the Troubadour when I got out of jail, and I was standing in line with my guitar, and I had some 1950 songs.  A guy took me over and showed me what acid rock was doing.  The biggest in my mind was "Cherry Pink and Apple Blossom White."  When I came out and heard The Grateful Dead, I threw my guitar away.  Man, music had run off and left me.

HS:  You didn't want to become part of the music scene?

CM:  I wanted to when I first came out.  I checked out the music scene.

HS:  But weren't you negotiating with Terry Melcher?

CM:  No.  That was Gregg Jakobson's idea.  Gregg Jakobson was broke.  Dennis [Wilson] had fired him.  He was good at what he does, and he wanted to produce an album.  He wanted to make the money, and had the connection with Terry Melcher.  They came to me.  I didn't go to them.  If I was after a career, wouldn't I be at his house saying, hey, look at what I can do?  So what's he coming to me for?

HS:  Melcher went to see you at the ranch?

CM: Yeah, he came out there.  He sent a truck out there with somebody that was suppose to record, but this guy went out of his mind.  the music was too much for him, he couldn't deal with it.  He had never heard music like that before, and he went crazy.  In the weeds, we play some pretty wild music, music that you ain't heard on the radio.  Now, I'll tell you something else.  When that murder jumped off, I was in San Diego with a girl named Stephanie.  I had picked her up in Big Sur.  I had a milk truck I was riding around in.  I hadn't even been living at the ranch.  I had been on the road.  I even had a traffic ticket, but they tore it up and transferred the highway patrolman.

HS:  Someone testified that you offered him $5000 and a three-wheeled motorcycle to kill Melcher.  He agreed, but then the next day he went home to Texas.

CM:  Let me tell you something.  Every rumkin, including your Danny DeCarlo, had five auto thefts, three burglaries, four sales and anybody would say anything.  The D.A. would knock all the cases off.

HS:  Danny DeCarlo, a member of the Straight Satans -- was he your bodyguard?

CM:  My bodyguard? [laughter] Danny was half-scared all the time.  He walked around with a pistol in his pocket.  His wife comes up and says, "Where's my husband?"  I say he's out in the barn, and she goes over by the barn and comes back.  She says, "You tell my husband to come back downtown."  He's up here, and he's telling her, "I'm not going back because I'm staying here with Charlie."  He's hiding behind me, you dig.... As soon as she would come, in would come all that negative force.  Downer freaks started coming in.  I've always drawn the line -- smoke a little grass, a little hash and some acid now and then.  Every once in a while, if you got something to do and you want to drop some bennies, that's reasonable.  I'm into crime long enough to know where to draw the line and where it's safe.

HS:  You don't approve of other drugs?

CM:  I don't approve or disapprove of anything.  I don't like what goes along with them.  I don't like downer freaks because they generally end up causing trouble, and them you have to beat one of them up, and when you beat one of them up, they can't feel it anyway.

HS:  There's a different kind of drug usage today than there was in the late sixties.  What do you think about today's drugs?

CM:  I think everything is good if used properly.  You have to go all the way back to the fifties to understand where the problem started.  I remember when there was nobody in jail for drugs.... Remember when they put out that movie "Reefer Madness"?  All that insane bullshit, and then everybody started putting all their problems off on drugs and blaming the drugs for their behavior.  All kinds of things, to where drugs started getting a bad name.  Then they started calling marijuana drugs.  Marijuana's never been a drug.  And then they come up with LSD, so they pushed LSD over on the drug market.  LSD isn't drugs.  And then peyote.  Peyote isn't drugs.  Your body is yours.  Your mind is yours.  And you should be able to do what you want to do with your body and your mind.

HS:  Would you tell today's kids to use or not use drugs?

CM:  I would say, change the laws and use the motivation of drugs for a positive purpose.  Sell it in the drugstore.  If you work and earn it then you can have it.  I think it is bad when people won't allow other people to be themselves.  If I tell you don't pick that up [he places a matchbook on the table], don't pick that up, don't even think of picking that up, I don't want you to, don't you dare --

HS:  I have the compulsion to pick it up.

CM:  Exactly, and that's exactly what we are doing to the kids.

HS:  So you think we should legalize --

CM:  Put it in the drugstore man.

HS:  The Beach Boys' Dennis Wilson  -- was he a friend?  What was your involvement with him?

CM:  Yes.  I loved him.

HS:  Did he live with the Family?

CM:  See, there you go again, drawing lines to the Family.  What's the Family?  The Family had five people in it.  It was a music group.  It was called Family Jams.

HS:  If you prefer, I'll use the word circle.  Was Dennis Wilson a member of your circle?

CM:  Member?  There were no membership cards.  You were just there if you were, and if you weren't, you weren't.  People came and went as they wanted to.

HS:  Was Dennis there?

CM:  Yeah.  When the Buffalo Springfield broke up, they left a motorcycle over at Dennis' pad.  I wanted the motorcycle.  I went over to get the motorcycle, mainly because I liked the Buffalo Springfield.  I was there with this Neil something or other, Diamond or Young, and we sat and bullshitted.  We played some music and he said, "You play pretty good, why don't you take it up professionally?"  I was going to do something with Dennis.  I was writing songs for Dennis, and Dennis was taking them and giving them to his brothers' recording company.  They were changing the words all around and moving the song to the point that it was not saying what I wanted to say.  I said, later!  If I can't say what I want to say, then I don't want the money.  Fuck the money, man.  It's the principle.

HS:  What were your thoughts when Dennis Wilson died?

CM:  I knew it. I'd seen it.  Too many negative trips.  Dennis was a lost child.  He was thrown up in the public's eye before he really knew what life's all about.  When I got him to hitchhike up and down the highway a couple of times, he was thrilled to death, because that was like getting back in touch with reality.  He had forgotten what the regular people lived like.

HS:  The Beatles --

CM:  They killed the music.  They killed the music by not standing up with the kids they were influencing.  "Why don't we do it in the road?"  Do what?  Who's going to do it in the road?  We'll do it in the road, and we'll do the suffering and the kids come to the nut ward and say, we'll go down to Strawberry Fields, where nothing is real, Penny Lane, cut your fuckin' wrists, write "I love you God" on the wall and all that stuff, and then hang yourself on the fuckin' ventilator.

HS:  What was your reaction to John Lennon's assassination?

CM:  He shot himself.  The guy that shot him said, "I'm John Lennon.  I shot myself."

HS:  Do you believe in God?

CM:  I believe in everybody in this room.

HS:  Are you saying that everybody in this room collectively is God?

CM:  Yes. And it is a word that we use.

HS:  In 1985, where do you think we are headed?

CM:  We are going to destruction.  I have some predictions for you. One is that crime for money will be on the down.  Crime for principle will be on the up.  People are waking up to the fact that ecology is important.  There'll be a revolution against pollution.  We have to clean up our atmosphere.  This is not a question as to whether we want to or not -- we have to!

HS:  Do you have any comments on our president, Ronald Reagan?

CM:  He was one of my heroes when I was a kid.  I like him.  I used to watch him on "Death Valley Days."  Reagan was always one of the cleaner actors, he was one of the more upstanding good guys.  He was never a bad guy, but always a straight shooter -- him and Roy Rogers, Gene Autry and all those guys like Gabby Hayes.

HS:  What about Reagan as a president?

CM:  As a president what he says is right.  I have listened to him, and I haven't heard anything he has said that isn't right on.  See, one thing that is wrong with this country is everybody uses the presidents to get off on.  That's why we elect them so we can dump the shit all on them.  Like Nixon, he was one of the best presidents this country ever had.

HS:  Maybe you are crazy, Charlie.

CM:  No, no.  Because he was so sneaky [laughter].  If somebody is going to look out for your interest, would you rather have some rockydoo up there, playing with flowers, or would you rather have some terrible son-of-a-bitch that's just awful?  You know what kind of ol' lady I want if I ever get out?  I want her to be the meanest one, the most wicked bitch in the whole fuckin' country, because then I can hide behind her ass, see.

HS:  Charlie, if you could get out of prison right now, what would you do?

CM:  I'd get a girl and get her in the bushes.

HS:  After sex, then what?

CM:  There's no after. that's what I'd do all the time, and I'd try my damnedest to get rich, then I wouldn't have this happen anymore -- jail and all.





94 comments:

Panamint Patty said...

Some notable quotes from one of his more lucid interviews:

I even had a traffic ticket, but they tore it up and transferred the highway patrolman.

Every once in a while, if you got something to do and you want to drop some bennies, that's reasonable.

Member? There were no membership cards. You were just there if you were, and if you weren't, you weren't. People came and went as they wanted to.

(The Beatles) killed the music.

Crime for principle will be on the up.

Max Frost said...

The more lucid he is means the less drugged he is. They drug the shit out of him most of the time.

The Bruckner interview was probably the most lucid and clear interview ever. Dianne Sawyer's interview was pretty close. Reagan Jr.'s wasn't bad either.

The problem is the top 2 interviews I mentioned have never been released in their entirety. Manson was promised an uncut Bruckner interview would be sent to a friend of his. They jipped him and only sent the audio.

He's always a different personality in the interviews. Probably because the interviewers are all different. He certainly plays differently to different people. The reflection game.

Matt said...

When I came out and heard The Grateful Dead, I threw my guitar away. Man, music had run off and left me.

For the first time in decades of following this I3ve finally read something he said that warmed my heart...

Max Frost said...

Aww c'mon.

"touch of grey"

orwhut said...

I'll bet that if Matt holds down the 3 on his keyboard, he gets an apostrophe. On my keyboard, I have to hold down the v.

Max Frost said...

orwhut said:
"I'll bet that if Matt holds down the 3 on his keyboard, he gets an apostrophe. On my keyboard, I have to hold down the v."

Can't tell if you're kidding or not.

If you are, that's hysterical!

Max Frost said...

Well I guess either way it's hysterical.

Matt said...

whut, when I first wake up there's no telling what I'm gonna hold down.

Max, you misunderstand. I love the Grateful Dead.

Max Frost said...

I understand now.

I interpreted Manson's quote as a dig on the GD.

Matt said...

He attended Dead shows numerous times at the Carousel Ballroom (later called The Fillmore).

Rumor has it that he had his first Jesus realization at one of those shows (on a healthy dose of acid, of course).

Max Frost said...

Becoming one with Jesus at the Fillmore.

Sounds familiar now.

For some reason I thought I remembered hearing about some argument or altercation between Manson and Garcia in the Haight.

Ole J.C. said...

Thanks for posting. I was looking for this second part for some time and finally found it and was about to transcribe it. :)

orwhut said...

Max,
I wasn't kidding. On my tablet, I have to hold down the v for a few seconds to get an apostrophe. I often have to go back and correct a v that slipped into a contraction.

Suze said...

Here is an excerpt from the Emmons book that addresses CM's impression of the Dead. Yeah, I know it's Emmons, but what the heck:

http://books.google.com/books?id=pl3KHfExjN4C&pg=PA82&lpg=PA82&dq=charles+manson+grateful+dead&source=bl&ots=FxSWoR-rOo&sig=fJkyZT7VDxbiuuzK0z6Tm_joSi4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-zi7UYraGorK9gS48YD4DA&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=charles%20manson%20grateful%20dead&f=false

Panamint Patty said...

The Dead...sigh. What a time that was. Patty doesn't have as many ticket stubs as Matt and Mr. Patty do but she does have a few pretty cool ones: Auburn Hills, MI, Oregon Ducks Stadium, Wembley UK.

Patty took her very straight laced sister to see The Dead one time. Patty was afraid that her sister would be grossed out by all the patchouli, tofurkey and dreadlocks. Much to Patty's surprise, her sister was inspired to write an entire book of poetry about the occasion.

Matt and Patty recently figured out that we were both at Jerry's memorial in Golden Gate Park: this was YEARS before they met.

The Grateful Dead are like magic. Imagine a gopher coming out of a hole right smack dab into the dazzling noon day sun. That must have been Charlie.

Doc Sierra said...

I was at Jerry's Memorial. I got there the night before. I stopped at Kmart in Vacaville on the way down and bought a tent. I went there by myself as I usually did at Dead shows. Man, what a strange night. People partying. Some laughing, some crying. I distinctly remember some guy on the microphone singing "Jerry Garciello".....

Panamint Patty said...

You were there too! Awesome. Patty was living a block down from 725 ashbury at that time...

Doc Sierra said...

What a trip. I went by there after the memorial. I remember a sign in front of the house that the current residents at the time must have put up. It said something like "We all loved Jerry but please respect our privacy" or something like that.

william marshall said...

Really enjoyed this interview great find Debs Would have love to go to a Jerry Tribute Broke my heart the day he died it was the end of my dead head days daze for along time
Seen 1st show in 82 at the ripe age of 12 last show was 94 although I've seen Rat Dog and Further several times the magic was over Sigh !
Being a East Coaster been to NYC on December 8th several times to John Lennon tributes very emotional experience I was 8 yrs old when John was killed still remember it

DebS said...

Thanks William! I'm always looking for the lesser known stuff.

I was amused by Charlie's opinion of president's Nixon and Reagan. Who would have thought that Charlie was a republican at heart? Nixon declared Charlie guilty during the trial and nearly upset the whole thing, I guess Charlie didn't hold that against him!

Max Frost said...

Charlie is more of a southern boy.

And hey Matt, Patty, Doc, et al,

I never made it to a dead show, but I once rented a place from one of the guys in Ratdog.

Does that count for anything?

Doc Sierra said...

Cool Max. Which member?

I saw Rat Dog at Cal Expo back in the 90s at the Furthur Festival. Mickey Hart's Mystery Box played that day and Mickey did a rap version of Fire On The Mountain. I had a hot dog and got mustard on my Three Stooges shirt. It was hot as hell that day but a whole lot of fun.......

Max Frost said...

I won't name him here but I'll smuggle the answer to you.

I also had a VIP pass to one of their shows.

Does that make me a half-dead head?

Doc Sierra said...

You are member when you say you are...

Max Frost said...

Just kidding.

Does anyone remember the date of Jerry's death off the top of their head?

It's a significant date in TLB history.

Matt said...

August 9, 1995. The bomb was also dropped on Nagasaki on A9

Doc Sierra said...

August 9, 1995 according to Wikipedia.
I was getting ready for work that morning and had the news on while I was getting ready. The news person said "A sad day for Bay Area rock n roll today". My first thought was it was probably Jerry. The last time I saw them was a few months before at the Oakland Coliseum Arena and Jerry just looked the most unhealthy that I'd ever seen him and he had no energy in his playing or his voice. It was sad. The buzz in the parking lot was that he back on heroin. Man, he was so freaking good. Very sad.......

Matt said...

An employee of mine at my bookstore informed me. I was inconsolable.

Doc Sierra said...

Matt said...

August 9, 1995. The bomb was also dropped on Nagasaki on A9
----------------------
I also married my first wife on Aug 9, 1981. That is no joke....

Max Frost said...

Don't forget Tricky Dick's resignation

william marshall said...

Sad thing is Jerry died in rehab trying to give up the needle and the spoon !

Heidi S said...

Patty! Auburn Hills, MI? Are you a Michigander?
Is it just the tall boy I just consumed or does some of what Charlie's saying here make a bit of sense?
Scary. :)

Doc Sierra said...

The only time I met any of them was in early 88. I went with friends to see a spin off band called Go Ahead at the Placer County Fairgrounds. After the show we went to a bar in Roseville, CA called Bunz And Co. It's owned by former 49er Dan Bunz. Anyway, we're half lit and in walks David Margren and Alex Ligertwood of Santana and Bob Weir. Weir bummed a smoke off of me and my drunk ass decided I was going to discuss equipment with him. He was polite for about two minutes and then he threw his hands in the air and walked out. I guess Weir doesn't like drunks.......

Max Frost said...

Heidi S said:

" Is it just the tall boy I just consumed or does some of what Charlie's saying here make a bit of sense?
Scary. :)"

Why is it scary?

Panamint Patty said...

Heidi, Patty's family is from Detroit, at least after 1930. Before that they were farmers near Saginaw with a crapload of kids. Some of us came out to Cali in 1975, but many stayed. Patty's cousins from W. Bloomfield took her to see the Dead there in '94.

Stacey L. said...

Charlie likes Bing Crosby and Reagan? Well I like him a little more now.

Matt said...

Bill, Jerry was not a heroin addict. He had a phobia to needles as a matter of fact. He smoked an opiate called China White. It's a myth that he was a heroin addict.

Doc Sierra said...

China White is heroin.

Doc Sierra said...

There's also a Fentyl mixture called China White but China White also refers to one of 3 types of common heroin. China White is from Asia, there's Columbian which is beige, and there's black tar which comes from Mexico. I read that Jerry preferred a type called Persian that's supposedly not very common but comes from Iran. I may be wrong but I researched this a few years ago and this is what I found.....

Max Frost said...

Charlie on Reagan - as told to Reagan Jr. (Loosely quoted)

"I saw your old man addressing the UN the other day. And everything he said was as perfect as if God had said it himself. And I said, now that he's said it... WHO'S gonna enforce it? Who's gonna make it so?"

Matt said...

Yes it is, but it isn't injected. I called into Rush Limbaaugh's show shortly after he was released from rehab from pain pills. My question would have been, "Given your recent addiction and treatment to pain medication do you in any way regret your statement that Jerry Garcia was "just another dead junkie"?

They didn't put me through. Imagine that...

Doc Sierra said...

Man, I wish you would have gotten through and I could see the look on his face.....

Max Frost said...

Rush is just another corporate mouthpiece pretending to be a conservative. A shill.

You'll never get an honest answer from him.

Stacey L. said...

I loved what Jerry said about being in a diabetic coma. ""Well, I had some very weird experiences. My main experience was one of furious activity and tremendous struggle in a sort of futuristic, space-ship vehicle with insectoid presences. After I came out of my coma, I had this image of myself as these little hunks of protoplasm that were stuck together kind of like stamps with perforations between them that you could snap off.'

I have been in a diabetic coma 3 times, though not from Type 2 like Jerry's but from Type 1(insulin dependent). It was almost like tripping the whole time. Yes, you hear people, though you can't understand their words, you know they are there. I bet he had a way better experience than I did. I just woke up very rested and hungry.

Panamint Patty said...

Wow, Stacey. Xxoo

orwhut said...

You guys prompted me to listen to Jerry Garcia on YouTube. I couldn't recall hearing him before. He did a good job with, Catfish John.

Jason said...

Thanks, patty! I am a Michigander so I'm always amazed when I hear West Coast people throw out venues like The Palace. :)
Drug use/ abuse is funny. We defend those abusers we like and call it a disease but throw someone unlikable into the mix and they are a pariah. I like the quote about bennies being "reasonable". Funny.

kruptedpeasantfarmer said...

China white is most definitely heroin. More common in the east coast as tar is more common to the west. In the 70s and such there were pharmaceuticals that got put under the "china white" street name at times but really fentenyl, delaudid etc. are just pharmaceutical equivalents of heroin so don't kid yourself either way. He probably preferred china white if he had an aversion to needles because it can be snorted like cocaine, but it's heroin.

kruptedpeasantfarmer said...

and again Matt quit stating things you know nothing about like they're facts. China White is most definitely injected or they wouldn't need needle exchanges in NYC. Also, both black tar and china white can be snorted as well. Tar as a liquid and CW as a powder. He was a junkie get over it. Snorting it over shooting does not lesson the addiction what so ever. You may not get hooked as fast but once you do, your tolerance keeps raising over a lifetime of use. No myth, he was a junkie, plain and simple. Don't take that as an insult to Jerry as junkies can be artists, cooks, moms, dads, bothers and sisters. After seeing you talk about china white like you have knowledge but knowing you're completely wrong, I will have to go back and question all the other things you have said I took as fact because I was un-knowledgeable. And no I'm not trolling I'm just educated on the subject. Listen to Doc Sierra he knows.

kruptedpeasantfarmer said...

I googled it and even google gets it wrong, I found articles stating you can inject China White but most don't because it is very expensive. Wrong again, it's about location and the price is not much different when accounting say for costs of living in New York compared to West Coast cities. I knew addicts of China White in NYC and they ALL injected it. Mixes in water just like tar, only needs some heat applied. Also, I have known many addicts and the ones on the west coast think china white is better and more expensive and those on the east coast think tar is this amazing thing, when really again it's just what's native and available to your local. Nothing more than the grass being greener on the other side. You can believe whatever you read on the subject or listen to a punk rock guy who has always known junkies (it comes with the territory)and trust me if it can be injected they will find a way. Junkies and addicts inject coke, meth, pills (water soluble and non-water soluble both by breaking them down chemically if need by or by extraction methods) if they're preferred method of intake is injection they will find a way. You'd be amazed how determined junkies can be!

kruptedpeasantfarmer said...

Also Matt I don't really mean to call you out as harshly as I did but it's a huge pet peeve of mine when people state things as fact when it's obvious they have no first hand knowledge of the subject and are just regurgitating something they heard or read somewhere. I guess it also bugs me because there have been many things you state as fact here and I just accept them, my bad. I will take what you say as fact with some reservations next time. I guess my feelings were honest I just didn't have to be a d*ck about it.

Doc Sierra said...

Hi kruptedpeasantfarmer. I appreciate your input but if you're going to be rude and condescending I'd appreciate it if you left my name off of your posts......

Matt said...

It's ok, kruptedpeasantfarmer. I have thick skin and I certainly don't mind being told I have something wrong. I also accept your explanation for your tone.

Allow me to rephrase: Jerry Garcia did not inject heroin, he snorted a close relative called China White.

But Rush Limbaugh is still an asshole :)

kruptedpeasantfarmer said...

Like I said I am sorry because I know I was being rude and for that I do apologize. It's just a pet peeve of mine when people state things as fact without realizing they are totally wrong. I kind of got uppity because when questioned before Matt has said they check there sources to no end and believe in honesty here. IMO honesty would be admitting you have no idea what china white is and leaving it at that. I do apologize, I hope my comments stay up even thought they may make me look like an ass because I do know what I'm talking about here trust me. I'll be honest here now and say I love this blog, one of the only blogs I check daily. I guess when I saw Matt's statement, knowing he was wrong it hit me in a bad way as I have questioned things he said before but accepted in the end because of my ignorance and I worried I put to mention faith in his assertions over his knowledge of facts in the past. None the less, I don't know Matt and one's knowledge of drug addiction is nothing to hold over another nor brag about which I did both here so I do apologize. I love the evil liz blog! Like I said despite me looking rude and condescending I know my stuff here and hope for the information I provided it stays up. I also hope you realize calling Jerry a junkie is not an insult in my mind, doesn't take away from who he is. Also, a junkie is a junkie whether he be a cokehead, meth head or heroin addict.

kruptedpeasantfarmer said...

Now my typing was getting a head of my mind and that last statement was very garbled. I just mean I am sorry if it came off attacking Matt as a person, I don't know Matt and should never do such a thing. I should have just focused on the facts and my knowledge on the subject. I'm sorry, I'm a huge fan. Not trying to make excuses but I'm on a bunch of meds right now. Morphine being one of them so I may get rambled at times. I just want to repeat, China White is not a relative of heroin it is heroin, plain and simple. It's only exotic or rare where we live Matt, on the east coast it's the norm. They use to call fentynal and dilaudids china white as well but that was just slang. So Matt please accept my apology you seem like a real good guy and I dont want to go down that route.

China white is powdered white heroin both water soluble with heat and snortable as a powder.
Black Tar is a gummy brown substance heroin water soluble with heat and can be snorted as a liquid.
Oh and in addition to injection both white and tar can be smoked.

punkrockconfessions said...

Oh and rush is an asshole. I had an experience on that former SNL guys radio show who is now a right winger. I called in to disagree with him, unlike you he put me on the air but he muted me and talked over me at just the right moments that it made it look like I agreed with him, which I didn't. Another a-hole that guy!

punkrockconfessions said...

maybe you could delete my other comments and just leave this one with the relative info? - China White is not a relative of heroin it is heroin, plain and simple. It's only exotic or rare on the west coast, on the east coast it's the norm. They use to call fentynal and dilaudids china white as well but that was just slang.
China white is powdered white heroin both water soluble with heat and snortable as a powder.
Black Tar is a gummy brown substance heroin water soluble with heat and can be snorted as a liquid.
Oh and in addition to injection both white and tar can be smoked.

Panamint Patty said...

wtf- snort a liquid? Patty is glad she's never chased the dragon. Sounds painful.

punkrockconfessions said...

If you want to use heroin but are scared of needles and you live on the west coast it's either smoking it or snorting it as a liquid. Coincidentally patty, the term chasing the dragon comes from the way the heroin leaves a trail across the tinfoil as you smoke it. It liquefies under heat and trails away from the flame leaving a black trail across the tinfoil as you attempt to get high you are in a constant state of chasing the dragon.

william marshall said...

My apologies for leaving the comment on Jerry and Herion Please let's get back on track this is a Manson blog Peace Y'all

DebS said...

Thanks William! We do seem to have strayed from the topic. Manson in words and actions did not condone the "hard" drugs. It also appears that Sadie and Tex were doing speed behind his back. They had their own stash at any rate.

Manson seems pretty adamant that the word Family to describe the group was something made up by Bugliosi, that Family only had to do with the name of their band, Family Jams.

There is evidence that Charlie used Family to describe himself and the others as a group that predated the Family Jams. So, what's up with that? Why make such a big deal over one word?

punkrockconfessions said...

I think he makes a big deal over one word because it helps prove there was a family or manson gang so to speak, which he denies. Says the family was just a band called the "family jams" but other than that no organised controlled group just a rag tag group of people that came and went. I personally think there's a lot to support the Schreck view of events, I think where the HS BS gets blurred is because for some people to get on board he had to tell them it was revolution, others robbery or revenge. He probably told them what he needed to, to get them to go along with it all. I say this because I in know way believe he brainwashed anyone.

Doc Sierra said...

I always believed that Charlie used his Helter Skelter lectures to keep his people paranoid and in need of his leadership. I personally don't believe that Charlie believed it himself. Any good sociopath is a good manipulator and I think that's all he was trying to do with his Helter Skelter rap......

Matt said...

Couldn't agree more, Doc.

Max Frost said...

I'm gonna remember this thread in case I ever have the bright idea of doing morphine and posting on a blog.

sponk said...

I suggest you go cold turkey on your testosterone jones, Max.

Kpfarmer stated facts (and despite the repetition doubtless no bells will ring).

orwhut said...

Krumptedpeasantfarmer,
Are you and Punkrockconfessions one and the same person?

Suze said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Suze said...

Orwhut, I think he has 3 ID's so far, he is an indisputable expert on heroin, admits to being on morphine and thinks Max has a testosterone problem.

Where is Monte Python when you need someone to say "And now for something completely different..."?

orwhut said...

Thank you for clearing that up, Susie. I'm easily confused.

punkrockconfessions said...

I am not sponk and I do apologize if I went off on a tangent. I knew lots of addicts, lived with them, worked with them. I take morphine for pain. None the less I have one name but for some reason it switched between two blog headings when I posted. Yes I posted the punk rock confessions blog. Kpfarmer and punk rock confessions, I thought my continuing with my thought would clue people in it was me so I didn't clarify. After me addressing matt in such a poor way I wouldn't do the same to mr. frost or any other user here. Somebody just came to my defense I guess. It's not needed as I, like matt have a tough skin. I will say just because I know things it doesn't mean I do things that I know about - so your judgements are pretty laughable. You blog about Manson, are a fan of many of junkies' art but when someone with some knowledge shares it, you pass judgement and talk shit. I'll make sure and take note on how not to live. I already apologized for my actions here. I hesitated to post here and shall not make the mistake again. I will however continue to read all the great info this blog shares.

Matt said...

punkrockconfessions, I know Suze well enough to know that she's kidding around. Sometimes we are unspeakably cruel to one another but it's just for laughs. Stick around.

Your input taught me something I didn't know. I didn't know CW was indeed heroin.

punkrockconfessions said...

Thanks Matt!

Like I said, you seem like a solid dude & I feel bad for my tone used when I posted.

Still, I think I'm better off reading more than interacting. I'm actually on several medications and have a hard time keeping my words concise and on subject. Again Suze was just making assumptions it's OK.

I've had a hard time with most posts I do on any public blog or forum, can you imagine??? Ha ha!

Yes, I can laugh at my self, I do all the time. Because of these difficulties though I shall just stick to the sidelines.

I am passionate on education towards drugs over fear, especially when they are so misunderstood.

I lost so many people to drugs it is a subject that hits hard, so if I go off or have an attitude that might explain why.

Anyways love the blog, and I am truly out of here. Take care you crazy evil lizters!!!

Doc Sierra said...

You should reconsider your position. I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Just about everybody who posts here has been insulted here and there including myself. The secret here is not to get butt hurt every time somebody says something we don't like. I've been guilty of it myself. I also am on pain meds and when I see someone insult another person about being on them I just think that person either doesn't understand what's going on or is just plain ignorant. One thing I love about this blog is that there are so many personalities and differences of opinions. How interesting would it be if everyone thought and posted the same opinions? Probably not very. You should stick around and enjoy the ride........

Panamint Patty said...

Songs about Heroin:

Mr Brownstone
Dr Feelgood
Heroin Girl
Im Waiting for the Man
Sister Morphine
Cold Turkey
I Wanna Be Sedated
Pawn Shop
Perfect Day
Comfortably Numb
Just One Fix
That Smell
Under the Bridge
Hurt

Doc Sierra said...

My two favorite heroin songs of all time would have to be Comfortably Numb by Pink Floyd and Heroin by Lou Reed......

Matt said...

The needle and the damage done, by Neil Young.

Stick around punkrockconfessions, it's all good.

orwhut said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Matt said...

Me too. Pain is real. Addiction is real. I've lost good friends to both.

orwhut said...

Punkrockconfessions, I asked about your identity because two people seemed to be carrying on one person's part of the conversation. I have several identities in other groups myself and like yours, they came about for technical reasons. I'm sorry for your pain and hope it goes away.

Doc Sierra said...

Matt said...

The needle and the damage done, by Neil Young.
---------------------
I can't believe I forgot that one. Neil Young is one of my all time favorites. Saw Neil with Crazy Horse at Cal Expo in Sacramento back in the late 80s. The Godfather Of Grunge.....

Doc Sierra said...

By the way, my all time favorite Neil songs and one of my all time favorites is Powder Finger off the Live Rust album.......
Sorry to get off topic.......

Aaron said...

More great Heroin songs

Chinese Rocks - The Ramones/Heartbreakers
You Don't Know How Lucky You Are - TV Personalities
Fantastic Voyage - The Mekons
Running To Stand Still - U2
King Heroin - James Brown
Let It Flow - Spiritualized
Walking With Jesus - Spacemen 3
She's Like Heroin To Me - Gun Club
Street Hassle - Lou Reed
Not If You Were The Last Junkie On Earth - The Dandy Warhols
Junkie Slip - The Clash
Golden Brown - The Stranglers
Junkie's Promise - Sonic Youth
Hand Of Doom - Black Sabbath
Call The Doctor - Spacemen 3
Junkie Nurse - Royal Trux
Another Girl/Another Planet - The Only Ones
Good Enough - Mudhoney

just to name a few...

also some people think "You Were On My Mind" is about heroin.

orwhut said...

I guess nobody bought the theory that, Bridge over Troubled Water, is about heroin. I once heard a speaker make that claim before several hundred people.

starship said...

william marshall: If you were 12 in 1982 you couldn't possibly have been 8 in 1980.

william marshall said...

A Baltimore love thing 50 cent
I hung out with Marvin when he wrote Sexual Healing Kurt Cobain even good friends with Ozzy Osborn to
I be with rock stars see you're lucky I'm fkn with you I chill with Frankie Lyman and Jimmie Hendrix crew.
The needle and the Spoon Lynyrd Skynyrd

william marshall said...

Starship sorry I was 10 in 1980 when John Lennon was killed DOB. 6/28/70

starship said...

Happy Birthday to william marshall in a little more than a week!

william marshall said...

That's very Nice thank You Starship

william marshall said...

Starship can you please refresh my memory to who David McGowan is

Angelgirl said...

Why don't you guys just kiss and make up about the heroin thing. Let's get back to Charlie, who seems to believe "Anything in moderation" My Mother used to say that all the time. Does anyone know what happened to TJ and Bo? From the ranch.

Matt said...

Angelgirl, TJ has been dead for quite some time (car accident). Bo is apparently alive and well.

Angelgirl said...

Love and many thanks to Bo, Wherever she may be. Do you think Gimme Shelter is about heroin?

Angelgirl said...

I saw TJ on a talk show with Gypsy around 5 years ago. He looked good and seemed happy like he always did. Good for you TJ.