In Memory of Dennis Rice

A big thank you to Chatsworth Charlie for sending this YouTube that is a remembrance of Dennis,  showing him give a talk at one of the prisons.  He talks about the Hawthorn Shootout and is quite animated discussing it!




Was The Hawthorne Shootout a Copycat Action Too?

Contributed by Dooger

The Manson case has an enormous amount of parallels and interesting little happenings that have kept us talking about it for nearly 45 years. It seems that we all can find interesting little facts on the case that can lead us to an investigation "eureka!. " but usually these little things that we find are merely coincidences.

Charles Manson and his gang didn't always have the most original ideas. One can argue that his entire "Family" was merely an idea taken from Krishna Venta and the Fountain of the World. One can go even further and say that the entire Helter Skelter theory was stolen from Krishna Venta.

However, this interesting little tidbit that I found came when I was checking out dates on the case timeline. What struck me was when I later picked up the August 21, 1970 issue of Life Magazine that had a huge article on the Family titled "Just Waiting for Charlie."

Since I am fascinated with the Black Panthers, I also realized that article right before this one was the story of the Marin County Court House shootings. These shootings happened August 7, 1970 and were masterminded by seventeen-year-old Joshua Jackson, little bother of Black Panther George Jackson who was at trial for murder.

Joshua Jackson and others stormed the court room armed with assault rifles in an attempt to liberate their "brothers" who were on trial for murder. Joshua and his three accomplices took Judge Haley, the District Attorney Gary Thomas and three jurors hostage. This lead to a shootout that left Judge Haley and two of the jurors dead and Thomas barely clinging onto life. Joshua Jackson was also killed.

George Jackson was found guilty and was sent to San Quentin Prison.

August 21, 1971--exactly one year later--Catherine Share, Kenneth Como, Mary Brunner, Larry Bailey, Dennis Rice, and a "sixth suspect that fled on foot (Charles Lovett) drove a van to Hawthorne, California to the Western Surplus Store in an attempt to rob the store and acquire firearms. The firearm heist is foiled by a silent alarm, followed by police cars and a shootout leaving Brunner, Share, and Bailey with gun shot wounds.

Motives for this heist include the guns being used in a hijacking of an aircraft where passengers would be held hostage and shot every hour until Charles Manson was freed. I highly doubt this was the true motive.

Another motive--and probably the more accurate motive--was that they were planning on raiding the court room and freeing Charles Manson while he was on trial for the Gary Hinman and Shorty Shea murders. This motive makes more sense and would have been a mirror image of the Marin County Courtroom incident.

The parallels do not end here.

On this same day, Black Panther George Jackson met with his attorney Stephen Bingham to discuss a lawsuit against the prison. On Jackson's way back to his cell, guards noticed a 9mm handgun wedged in his afro. This eventually lead to a hostage-shootout leaving 4 guards and 2 inmates dead. Jackson was shot by a guard and killed.

This was planned as Jackson had written a will and manifesto.

Nearly six years later in Folsom Prison, June of 1977, Kenneth Como was involved in a similar incident with inmate Bobby Davis. The two had a 9mm handgun in their possession and planned to kill guards, members of the Aryan Brotherhood--who they were fighting with--and then escape. A shake down of the cell block came back with as many as 16 armed inmates ready to riot and a CB radio used to communicate with the outside.

Something tells me that when Life Magazine ran the August 21, 1970 Family story, that someone from the Family possibly could have read the article and read the article on the Marin County Court House shootout, giving them an idea to do something similar.

Chicken Coop, Cave and Children

5 CHILDREN, AGES 1-10 FOUND LIVING IN CAVE

Four of the youngsters believed to be offspring of Manson 'Family' member

Tom Paegel Times Staff Writer

Five Children ranging in age from 1 to 10 were found living in a manmade cave beneath a dilapidated chicken coop on an abandoned ranch four miles west of Lancaster, sheriff's deputies reported Wednesday.

Four of the youngsters were believed to be the children of Dennis Rice, a Manson "family" member who was indicted Dec. 18, 1970, along with four others on charges of having conspired to murder Barbara Hoyt, a state witness in the Tate-LaBianca trial, by giving her an LSD-spiked hamburger.

The children were identified as Kathryn Rice, 10, and her brothers, Joseph. 7, Samuel,6, Nickolas, 3.  A fifth child, a girl believed to be about 1 year old, was not identified.

2 Youths Booked

Sheriff's Sgts. Armond J Licht and Carolyn Boston went to the ranch at 4011 W. Ave. I on a tip that a 14 year old runaway girl from the Los Angeles area was living there.

The officers said they found the girl, whose name was withheld, and the five children.

Also taken into custody were two 19 year old "hippie types" identified as Patrick R. Walleman and David Lee Stoffer.  They were booked at the Antelope Valley substation on suspicion of endangering the health and safety of minor children and on suspicion of possession of marijuana.

Sheriff's deputies said the children were "very dirty", poorly clothed and appeared to be undernourished.  The were taken to McLaren Hall in El Monte.

Investigators were trying to determine how long the children had been living in the 3-by-9 foot plywood-lined cave. 

This much is known about the four Rice children:  A missing persons report was filed at Temple City sheriff's station last Feb. 14 by their mother, Sarah Rice,29, Santa Rosa, formerly of Temple City.  The report stated that she had separated from her husband and left the children in his care because she was "in poor health and not capable of caring for them."

Husband Left

The report added that Mrs. Rice understood that her husband had left the children in the custody of "members of the Manson family" when he was jailed.

She told investigators, the report said, that her husband warned her not to notify authorities because the children's lives would be in danger.

The report also stated that Mrs. Rice contacted "some Manson followers who were living in a van truck."  She said they told her they knew where her children were but would not tell her.

The whereabouts of Dennis Rice was not immediately learned Wednesday.

However Rice and his codefendants were given 90-day jail sentences after pleading no contest to a reduced charge of conspiring to prevent a witness from attending a trial in the Hoyt case.  He later was given a jail sentence in an unrelated misdemeanor assault case.

From:  The Los Angeles Times  July 1, 1971 and sent to us by Paul Dostie, thank you Paul! 

The Late Dennis Rice preaching in prison

Thank you, pastor Jimmy Lee of Bullhead City, AZ. We at Eviliz are sorry for the loss of your friend.

Q&A

Orwhut asked-

"I've read that a least one of Dennis Rice's kids is active in his ministry but can't find any contemporary photos of them."

Joseph and Heather Rice

Biography-Pastor Joe Rice was saved in 1985 at The Door Christian Fellowship Church in Tempe, AZ. His decision was influenced by his father's conversion while serving a sentence in San Quentin State Prison. In 1991, he pastored his first church in Phoenix, AZ. In 1994, after establishing a church in Phoenix, he was sent to Auburn, WA to pioneer a new work. In 1996, he felt a calling to enter into missionary work and was given the opportunity to pioneer a church in George, South Africa. After 5 years of laboring in George, he handed over the church to a solid native disciple, Randal Van Staden. After serving in George, he pioneered again in Cape Town, South Africa for another 4 years and left a solid work that is today pastored by Alec McCann (No relation to Brenda McCann). In 2005, he along with his wife Heather and his four children moved to San Diego, CA where he assumed the pastorate of The Potter's House San Diego.

http://www.thepottershousesandiego.com/our-pastors.html

Samuel Rice-website not active yet.

http://pottershousecorvallis.com

Nicholas Rice-video left hand corner. I am not 100% sure this is the right Nicholas Rice.
http://www.ourlourdes.org/parish/parish-life.aspx

Nothing on Kathryn Rice. I am assuming she has married and uses that last name.

Q&A

2009

Dennis and his wife 2011

Another question from the Feb 24th "Babies" post.

Orwhut asked-

Has anyone heard how Dennis is doing in his battle with Cancer?

Dennis Rice's inactive site "Free Indeed Ministries" focused on Dennis' travels over the world preaching his Manson 2 Jesus teachings to convert prisoners to the straight and narrow through Christianity.

Eviliz was contacted last year from one of Dennis' flock who provided me this link.

http://www.thedoortempe.com/index.php?section_id=8

The link is to a church in Arizona where Dennis is active now. His "Free Indeed Ministry" was also out of AZ. Maybe his health is deteriorating since he gave up his traveling. The two photos above show his age progression over two years. According to his quote below he should of passed by now. Looks pretty good for liver cancer. There is a woman named Kathy at the church who might be his daughter.

"Rice asked if anyone had a parole date or knew they had only a short time left. He told them he was on his way out too, if his doctors were right. In May,(2010) Rice said he was diagnosed with liver cancer and his doctor gave him six to nine months, at most, a year to live."

Above quote from- http://itemonline.com/local/x622287253/Ex-Manson-family-member-speaks-about-his-ministry

babies

Sadie's son Zezozoze Zadfrack Glutz

Ruth Ann holding Zezozoze.

There has been much talk over the years about the baby in this photo.

Some say it resembles a mixed race child. Nope. It's Sadie's little white baby boy.

Sandy with Ivan

Gypsy and Clem's son Paul

Dennis Rice's children

left to right- Nicholas, Kathryn holding unknown baby, Joseph and Samuel

Babies never seen in pictures- Bobby and Kitty's daughter, Danny DeCarlo's son Dennis

and Valentine Michael Manson. Did I forget any?

               picture from http://www.redrumatographs.com/                                  

In 1969 I was working in Hollywood California and taking care of my four children. That year the Tate-LaBianca murders rocked Los Angeles and the world.  I thought these crimes could set off a revolution in America. I believed nothing short of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, or a revolution (maybe both) were necessary to solve America's problems.  After visiting Charles Manson in jail, my children and I went to live with the 'Manson Family.'  - Dennis Rice

               

       

Preaching must come with a good dental plan.

Parts of a interview with Dennis "Fatherman" Rice.

October twenty eight, 2009

Speaking of prison~Over time, Rice said he began to see things differently. Some of his old “family” members had become Christians. His cellmate was a Christian and in all these people, he could see a common thread.“My Jesus was in prison,” he said. “Their Jesus was changing their lives.”

Rice said his children also came to know Christ through him. All four of his children who were with him at the Manson family ranch are now born-again Christians doing work in ministry. He said they told him they knew God was real when they saw God change their father.
“I knew if I wanted to stay free and stay saved, I knew to surround myself with people who wouldn't bring me back to prison. Is there any hope for you?” he asked offenders. “It ain't over till it's over. This isn't about fun and games. This if life and death. It's time to get out and stay out. It's time to do it his way.”

Rice asked if anyone had a parole date or knew they only had a short time left. He told them he was on his way out too, if his doctors were right.  In May Rice said he was diagnosed with liver cancer and his doctor's gave him 6-9 months to live.  At most a year. That's OK, because I know where I'm going. I'm looking forward to it,” he said. “This may be the last time I ever see you unless you make the same decisions I made on the floor of that prison cell on May 14, 1978. We may see each other again, if you make that decision."
Rice said he wants to be remembered as doing something good.  “You have a choice, you can leave behind a legacy,” he said. “It's going to be a blessing or a curse. Years from now, they'll remember you. Which way will it be? This is your opportunity. This is your day.”

                 Click here for the entire story

      http://www.taosnews.com/articles/2009/10/28/news/doc4ae1dcf78c7f5439250479.txt

The reason I chose to re-run part of this article is-
The article is dated October twenty eight 2009.  Dennis said that in May of 2009, he was diagnosed with liver cancer and the doctors gave him 6-9 months,a year at most.   He was already five months into his death sentence when this article was printed.  It is now May 2011. Over two years have gone by.  Maybe he is holding on until the bitter end like Sadie did?  I cant seem to find a thing about him past 2009.  Does anybody know if he is still alive? 

manson 2 jesus

Dennis Rice's Prison Out Reach Website, never updated.  
Soooo- I guess if I was in prison and needed some "out reach",
I would be assed out?       

  

                         http://www.manson2jesus.com/       

 If you have never been there before it is worth a look.  There is a section on Catherine Share. 
It tells some of her life story from her first memories hiding from the Nazis in France.  Gypsy says it is all Bobby's fault she met the Family.  She details the trials, her crimes and her life with Curly Como.  What she left out is the story of her poor son Paul/Phoenix who grew up without his mother or father in Christian camps, whatever those are. I think the writings are snippets from the book she has been writing for the past 25+ years.

There is also a section for Tex that takes you right to his website.

The section on Bruce Davis was not working when I was there.
I wonder, since Dennis stuck with religion after prison, would Tex and Bruce (and Sadie if alive) continued the religion thing if they were released?                                                                                                

Manson, she wrote...

Then and now pictures of Angela Landsbury and her kids. Son Anthony and daughter Deirdre (Family name DiDi). It has been written that DiDi carried a permission slip with her written by her mother Angela giving the aok for DiDi to run with the Family even though she was underage. Should the black bus meet up with any police officers concerned about under age girls or runaways.

Bill Nelson wrote in one of his books about meeting DiDi present day. In true Bill Nelson style, he did not name names but gives you enough clues to figure out who he is speaking of. Bill always the pervert asked DiDi about Charlies "staying powers" and his love making in general. She gave Charlie two thumbs up. He also asked her why she stopped running with the Family. According to Nelson her reply was that - she loved hanging out with the Family until, while participating in a group orgy, she saw Charlie touch one of Dennis Rice's small children and that is what turned her off from the Family.

Now, everyone knows that Dennis Rice and his "chickencoup kids" came WAY AFTER the murders. I mean didn't Nelson do his research before telling tales??? I guess not. Makes you kind of wonder how accurate the rest of Bill's finding were? There has been talk over the years on the blogs about Bill embellishing. I don't care I still love his books.

Thanks to Panamint Patty for the Di Di idea.

Cancer from Spahn's Ranch?

I remember reading or hearing somewhere about Family members getting cancer from being at Spahn's.  Susan, Como (was he at Spahn's ever?) and Ansom.  I researched my little heart out and can not find anything but this.
It seems that there was a location near Spahn's that leaked hazerdous materials into the ground.  I might be wrong, don't quote me.



http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/SiteCleanup/Santa_Susana_Field_Lab/index.cfm


If any one knows anything else about this, please fill us in.

Dennis Rice IS dying.

Thanks to Anonymous for the tip.  You are correct.  Dennis Rice is dying from liver cancer.  
Here is a quote from the article -  "In May, Rice said he was diagnosed with liver cancer and his doctor gave him six to nine months, and at most, a year to live."
Read it here.  Article from December 2010


http://itemonline.com/local/x622287253/Ex-Manson-family-member-speaks-about-his-ministry

The One True Thumper Fatheman Dennis Rice

Dennis Rice circa 2009

Hawthorne Shoot Out Pics

View from inside a police car shot up by members of the Family. In the background is the van they used for this caper.

Dennis,Como and Bailey

Idiots

Left to right Dennis Rice,Ken Como and Larry Bailey.
On the way to court for the Hawthorne robbery/shootout.

Fatherman

Taken from todays CDCR Star (CA Department of Corrections newsletter.) Ex-Manson family member speaks about his ministry By Tori Brock, The Huntsville Item -- Vincent Bugliosi, author of the Charles Manson true-crime book “Helter Skelter,” called Dennis Rice one of the Manson family's most hard-core members. Rice became a Christian in prison and has been ministering to offenders for the past 25 years. On Friday, Rice spoke to offenders at the Byrd Unit and will be speaking to offenders at the Wynne Unit today. Rice will speak at Univeristy Heights Baptist Church at 10:30 a.m. on Sunday morning.

Family Day Care Center Has Openings--call now!

This is a photo of THE chicken coop at Spahn Movie Ranch. Move the plywood, crawl in the hole and there is an instant creepy crawl nursery for Dennis Rice's kids and a few other unidentified children. You thought you had daycare issues?? Photo date July 2, 1971.