Showing posts with label Danny DeCarlo. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Danny DeCarlo. Show all posts

Monday, July 1, 2024

Danny DeCarlo's Rap Sheet

 

Danny DeCarlo 1959

The latest document drop from Cielodrive was a group of rap sheets. We have seen a few of them already but one we haven't seen is Danny DeCarlo's rap sheet.

According to Danny's father's naturalization records Danny was born June 20, 1944 in Toronto Canada. The family came to the United States March 18, 1952.

Almost all of the rap sheets we have seen were issued by the California Department of Justice in Sacramento (even Charles Manson's rap sheet) but Danny's was issued by the United States Department of Justice in Washington DC so the form looks a bit different.






At sixteen years old Danny was arrested for the possession of a snap blade in Los Angeles County. Today a snap blade knife is a utility knife with short blades that can be snapped off when becoming too dull to cut. 



Back in 1961 a snap blade knife differed from a switch blade knife, which was opened by pushing a button, lever or switch so that the blade could extend by either coming straight out of the handle or pivoting from the handle. A snap blade knife could be opened by simply snapping the wrist so that the blade would pivot out from the handle. 

July 5, 1961 Danny joined the United States Coast Guard at 17 years old. He appears to have served his four year committment before getting in trouble with the law again. His service number is provided if anyone wants to try to get his service records though it may be impossible because unless you are the person named in the records you will need to show that the person has died.

Nov. 6, 1965 Danny was arrested for possession of a weapon in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. Four months later he was arrested by the US Marshal's for smuggling marijuana. He must have crossed state lines or possibly country borders for the US Marshal's to be involved. There are three entries for that arrest but other than the Los Angeles Sheriff's Office being involved there is no indication where the smuggling took place. My guess is that he was smuggling across the Mexican border. There wasn't much homegrown back in 1965 and most of the pot in California came from Mexico.

Danny had a couple of traffic violations in 1966 and 1967.

On Dec. 5, 1967 Danny was arrested for rape by force but those charges seem to have gone nowhere since in the disposition column it is noted "rel" which I take to mean released. I do not believe that Danny had hooked up with Manson at this point in time.

But by the next arrest on Mar. 29, 1969 Danny had hooked up with Manson. Both were arrested for assault with a deadly weapon. The victim was Miriam (Romo) DeCarlo, Danny's wife. About ten days later the LA DA declined to charge the two because Miriam told the DA she wanted the matter dropped.








Danny was arrested using the name Richard Allen Smith during the Aug. 16,1969 Spahn Ranch Raid. Richard Allen Smith was the same name he used to illegally purchase a gun on July 14, 1969 in Los Angeles County. It appears that the illegally purchased gun caught up with him Sept. 12, 1969 as there was a Title 78 USC (United States Code) charge filed by the US Marshal's on that date.

Then on Oct. 15, 1969 there was a grand theft charge filed against him by the LA PD.

What is not included on the rap sheet which is dated Oct. 24, 1969 is the drug, grand theft and receiving stolen property charges. The grand theft and receiving stolen property crimes apparently took place in May 1969 and involved a motorcycle and engine owned by Edward Lee Shearer. But it looks like there was no arrest until mid Oct. 1969.

 A drug charge, possession of marijuana, was filed against Danny and a woman named June Ann Safranek. The paperwork is confusing because the drug charges are from an incident that occurred Dec. 11, 1968 but one of the pages say the drug charges are from Dec. 11, 1969 which was after the charges were filed and the two appeared in court. The first page of the documents is practically unreadable but the rest of the pages are fine.

Grand Theft Drugs pdf

To me, it looks like the drug charge was simple possession. There's no hint of a large quantity or sales. 

I was unable to learn much about the young woman, June Ann Safranek, who was arrested with Danny. She was from Simi Valley and 17 years old at the time of the offense. She was reported as a runaway by her mother in Nov. of 1967. June married young, age 15, in Dec. 1966 and had a child in March of 1967. The couple filed for a divorce in Feb. 1968. 




Monday, January 9, 2023

Informants

 


There have been a few documents in the current cache I obtained that are a bit of a mystery to me. Two of those documents are related to Wayne Robert Peterson. One is an arrest report and the other a rap sheet.

The arrest report states that Peterson's birthdate is January 6, 1947 and he was born in Oakclair, Wisconsin. He was born in Eau Claire, WI, actually. The arrest was for the sale of dangerous drugs and it appears he was arrested on a warrant though there isn’t an arrest location. He lived at 338 Windward in Venice CA.

338 Windward Venice CA


Peterson had a previous arrest for drugs. I could not find any newspaper articles about either of the arrests. The rap sheet is dated June 23, 1969 so there are not any other crimes he was arrested for after that date on the sheet.

Peterson passed away in Wisconsin on July 14, 2021. His obituary page has a motorcycle at the top of the page and the text reveals that he loved to ride motorcycles. I ran a background check on him, he had a number of arrests between 1987 and 2013 for disorderly conduct, domestic abuse and bail jumping in Wisconsin.

Given that information and realizing that I’m stereotyping, I’m thinking that Peterson may have been with the Straight Satans but after asking around to the few people I’m in contact with who might know the names of the Straight Satans members, I struck out. He could have had a nickname and not many were familiar with his true name.

I ran across an interesting detail in the article below regarding the timeline of when law enforcement finally put everything together and realized that the Hinman, Tate and LaBianca murders were all committed by the same people.

On November 12, 1969 Venice police interviewed a man who had been arrested for burglary who might have some info on the suspects in the TLB cases. This informant gave them the name of Danny De Carlo as a person who was known to frequent Spahn Ranch. Danny spilled his guts.

I am wondering if Peterson was the person who gave Venice Police De Carlo’s name??? I don't think that the Peterson documents were with all the other documents by mistake, there's a reason why they were there.

If anyone knows Peterson's role in the Manson saga, please share it with the class.

 


 

December 11, 1969

Hollywood Citizen News

Manhunt Timetable Revealed

Police on Right Track Before Susan Talked

"Grinding day and night work" and several informants have been credited with leading police to the six Hippies accused of murdering actress Sharon Tate and six other persons.

The timetable for the lengthy investigation of the bizarre killings was revealed for the first time by Los Angeles Police Capt. Hugh Brown, commander of the Robbery-Homicide Division.

It was not the disclosures of Susan Denice Atkins, 21, one of the accused, which put police on the right trail, Brown contended.

It was, rather, "grinding" police work which included probing 150 murders that occurred in southern California in the past year.

At one time more than 40 investigators were assigned to the Tate and LaBianca murders.

Chronologically the investigation went like this:

OCT. 15- Police became aware of the similarities between the murders of 34-year-old musician Gary Hinman and the Tate and LaBianca slayings.

In all three cases the word "pig" or "piggy" was scrawled in blood at the scene.

Hinman was knifed to death July 25, the Tate killings occurred Aug. 9 and Leno and Rosemary LaBianca were slain the following day.

Miss Atkins is also charged with murdering Hinman and is set for trial in that case Jan. 14 in Santa Monica.

OCT. 20- Police conferred with sheriff's detectives handling the Hinman case and learned of a girl who might have some information about a roving Hippie band.

OCT. 31- The girl was interviewed and the name of Charles Miller Manson- leader of the hate- oriented cult- was first mentioned.

Manson, 35, who was also indicted by the County Grand Jury Monday for the seven murders, was arrested in Independence, Calif. on auto theft charges. He was returned to Los Angeles to face murder charges on Tuesday.

NOV. 1- Homicide detectives conferred with Manson's parole officer and obtained additional information about his Hippie "family."

NOV. 6- Nine "family" members also in custody in Independence on auto theft charges were interviewed. No information was obtained from these individuals.

NOV.12- A major break. Venice police officers informed homicide detectives they had a man in jail on a burglary charge who might have more information on the suspects.

The informant was interviewed the same day and he provided the name of another man who knew the Hippies.

NOV.13- The informant was located and he told investigators the day after the Tate murders he overheard conversations at Spahn Ranch near Chatsworth which led him to believe that some members of the Hippie band might be implicated in the slayings.

He supplied police with the names of several persons- some of whom now face murder charges.

(Daniel Thomas deCarlo, 25, of Inglewood, who once lived at the Spahn Ranch, testified at the Grand Jury inquest.)

It was at this point, Brown said that the man under Lt. Paul Le Page working on the La Bianca murders joined forces with investigators under Lt. Robert Helder who were probing the Tate case.

Capt. Brown said it was the conversation with the Spahn Ranch informant which led police to conclude that the Tate and LaBianca murders were definitely connected.

NOV.18- Beverly Hills officers informed the Los Angeles teams that a woman suspect in another case had disclosed her conversation with Miss Atkins in her jail cell at Sybil Brand Institute.

The Los Angeles officers interviewed the informant.

Nov. 26- The final and major break in the case. A former cellmate of Miss Atkins related conversations she had with Miss Atkins.

The informant was then residing at the Corona Narcotic Rehabilitation Center in Riverside County.

Capt. Brown said his men, meantime, conducted hundreds of interviews, traveled thousands of miles and constantly checked leads.

He explained they had checked most of the acquaintances and associates of Tate, coffee heiress Abigail Folger; Wojiciech Frykowski, Steven Earl Parent, hair stylist Jay Sebring and the LaBiancas, all to no avail.

Police said they got their first clue they were heading in the right direction when they examined the Hinman case, Brown added.

But it was not until Nov. 13 when they talked to the former resident of the Spahn Ranch, that they knew their investigation would soon hit pay dirt, he noted.





Wednesday, August 3, 2022

Deb Silva Uncovers the First Spahn Raid

"Don't try to play The Man...Because the next time you try it, you'll find yourself hanging from a tree upside down, dead." 

If you're Charlie, you say that to firemen. And then the firemen inform the police. The police, natch, send the threat up the ladder to this guy who (to me at least) does not look like he fears hippies, slippies, or any other dang dirty commie. 

Stick me up in a tree. I double dog dare ya!

That's John P. Knox, Chief at LASO Patrol Division West in 1969. Manson Blog researcher and author Deb Silva recently unearthed reports Knox received regarding the scene at Spahn's Movie Ranch, known in the following reports as Spahn Ranch, during the Summer of 1969. The first three pages are missing, but you can read from the fourth page forward by following this link: pdf.

I'll leave the reading to you, it's worth your time, and instead touch on a couple of things that jumped out at me. I'd love to hear what you think below. 

- We wondered about this previously but the reason Mr. X, Jack Gordon, Ruth Gordon, and Carol Loveless have mugshot photos included with others arrested in the more famous August 16th raid might be because they were swooped up in the caves near Spahn's prior to the main raid.  

You will see in the pdf that the LAPD contacts the LASO the second week of July and is all, "Dudes we're looking for juvie arsonists and robbers. Might they be out there somewhere laying low?" 

And the LASO said, "Maybe. They're never super smart about where they hide. I'll get back to you." 

TWO HOURS LATER....The LASO people find the bad children. Seriously, how bad do you suck as a criminal if the cops find you in two freakin hours? Get a new career before it's too late oh you juveniles of 1969! 

The police at some point also possibly stumble upon Jack, Ruth, Carol, and X while out spelunking. I'd always heard the runaways hid in the caves but maybe an entire alternative society was up there who knows. I've also always believed successful drug dealers live in caves. I bet life was awesome. 

In what many would call snitching, Jack spills the beans on some Ranch facts. And also admits to knowing one of the bikers. Those games are dangerous, my dear Jackie Boy. 

Moving on: 

- Several neighbors admit to being terrorized
- Other neighbors offer to help law enforcement remove the group at Spahn's 
- Spahn's son says George Spahn is afraid to leave the Ranch over fear of retaliation
- Law enforcement appears to be playing it straight and by the book in their efforts


- Laura Ann Sheppard returns to the blog today. Her mother, pictured below with Laura, went to the Ranch searching for her daughter and watched her scamper away. Panicked, she talked to Charlie and got nowhere. 


I've seen Laura Ann Sheppard shamed in the comments section of this blog in the past. If any of you rotten assholes are still alive, post up a photo of yourself from back in the day and let's compare. I will wait. 

Not all of these kids were throwaways. Some of them met the wrong people at the wrong time. 

- The police are told Charlie makes juvenile girls bathe grown men in a big wooden tub. I've never heard that before. Have you? 

- The police think Charlie's group is growing booby-trapped weed.

- A group of men at the Ranch are observed having knife throwing practice August 8th, 1969. 

- Mrs. Greene & her father confirm groups of "negroes" are in the area.

- A Straight Satans biker bites the nose off a black man in a Venice Beach riot and retribution is feared.

- Dumb Danny uses his wife's maiden surname as an alias. Super Derrrrrr. 

-Someone tells the cops Charlie is coming back from SF August 8th with a load of narcotics. The police leave the news at rumor status. Seven people will read what I just wrote, verify it in the report, and decide once and for all the motive is drugs. Who can blame them? The possible becomes the probable in a flash here in Mansonland and it'll always be that way. 

Charlie and the Family were likely done before Cielo and Waverley happened. Law enforcement was closing in and the community was sick of their shenanigans. I hate to think it, but Sharon Tate and the others probably would've lived if another week was allowed to pass. It's such a shame. The cops were so close. 

Don't do anything illegal. Beware of the Eagle. 

Saturday, May 14, 2022

El Donkalito Goes Luau

You know the rule of Manson research that says whatever you think you discovered was actually discovered decades ago and has been discussed to death by people who know more than you might ever aspire to knowing? 

If you're unfamiliar with that rule and dropping hot takes online from sentences you pull from documents you also find online, go read that first sentence again and let it settle upon your brain. And please accept a bit of advice from a survivor if you're receptive. Any combination of hubris, newness, and not understanding what Googling for confirmation bias is may result in your fellow residents of the yellow submarine practicing their apoplexy upon you in extremely public ways. 

It's called being greenwhite'd. 

The joke is on them. I'm stronger and taller than mountains after emerging from the forge of insults, go aways, and I'm not sure if I like this's. Look down at my hands while I type, Thomas. I'm made of f'ing bronze. 

Oh! Same goes for repeating company lines outside of your assigned echo chamber. Don't do it. They will gobble you up with their razor teeth. Even your hair and biggest bones. 

Having said all of that, please indulge us one more time as we attempt to fill in the pieces of the Danny DeCarlo backstory. I'm not satisfied Danny was not the driver on the trip to Hinman's, and often wonder what else he was up to in those days. Bugliosi, Sanders, Ivor, the media, all those people had me believing Danny showed up with a biker gang out of the clear blue. Maybe he did. But Danny was also a local kid, and I always try to understand how the human puzzle fits together. 

We had some missing years for Danny. Equus Asinus. Hawaii should've been our first guess since that's where all hoodlums who sleep on the dirty ground with teenagers eventually end up. Screw college and following the rules amirite? 

Jealousy sometimes consumes me. I apologize. 

Like I mentioned, Danny had a few missing years. But then Deb said, "Dude, he lived in Hawaii," and included her research. Danny's mom had a crib in tiny Pahoa. I was like omg I'm about to discover there's more to the Hamburger Caper. Danny was in on it! 

My enshrinement into the Hall of Gurus was assured. I danced and exalted until I noticed, okay until Bunt pointed out, that Danny was in Hawaii years later. Immediately, my dreams exploded like the air from my bicycle inner tube after I rode across broken malt liquor bottles trying to get a better photo of a cartoon penis someone painted on a green dumpster.   

Pahoa Wikipedia page. Lava flows destroyed homes in 2014 and 2018. 

Danny's mother also owned an Italian restaurant in town. Ring ring, "Yeah, hi. Lemme get a chicken parm and a meatball sub, please. And a side of extra sauce. Pickup, please." 

A few addresses:

A building permit:


And that's it. This one went pretty much nowhere but hopefully fills in a bit more of the timeline so many of us are working on. Either way, thanks for reading me today and stopping by the place where scholars gather. You are a cut above. 

beep
beep
ride
in a green & white
jeep. xo

Wednesday, April 20, 2022

Danny DeCarlo Backstory and Ruth Gordon Update!

Lately, the blog is becoming me and Shoe asking questions while sitting at the feet of yon experts. Stars fill our eyes. Maybe only mine eyes. I can't speak for Shoe. He might not like it like the Colonel doesn't. Regardless, new fruits are falling out of the Manson tree of knowledge in real time. 

I don't think I've ever used yon in a sentence. Maybe I should try to work it into casual conversations. "What time is Saturday's bbq at yon's abode?" "OMG would you please remove yon's clothes from the f-ing dryer! I've been asking for two days!" 

Today, I have stars in my eyes for Buntline. But I legit always do. Bunt is one of those rare researchers who provides data with their thoughts. In forty-eight hours, Buntline basically figured out Ruth Gordon and found Danny DeCarlo's arrival in the US. 

 More than that, Bunt put me back on track with additional documents after I missed a govt. typo and started looking for a timeline I'd never find.


Danny's 1944 birthdate was incorrectly transcribed, possibly by the AI that reads that stuff, as 1914. I totally missed it. His parents are indeed Thomas and Marie. 


3976 3rd Avenue in Los Angeles is worth over a million dollars now. The DeCarlo's shoulda kept the property. I'm not a big stucco guy fwiw. 


Someone from LA is welcome to correct me but that looks like the Leimert Park neighborhood. Here's what I found on Wikipedia. The location of their first US home makes me think Crenshaw and not Westchester was the likely high school for the DeCarlo kids. 

*A bit of minutia. Patricia Krenwinkel and Lynette Fromme also attended Westchester High School at different times. 

-------------

Moving on to Ruth Gordon. 


Here's Matt and them (you) discussing the mugshots a decade ago. The only write up I could find on Ruth Gordon was this one. The owners of that website asked readers to "let them know" if anyone finds more info on Ruth. I hope this suffices. 

Those of you following the Mr. X saga on Allegra Lansing's channel know Mr. X dropped a couple of Spahnites' names during the first installment of his interview. Jack Gordon, 4th from left bottom row, and Barbara aka Ruth Gordon, two photos away from him on the right. Mr. X mentions they had a baby named Aaron who Mary Brunner delivered at the Ranch. Sadly, little Aaron died. His last name on the death certificate is Cline. 


AB Nobel Jr. High School is 2.4 miles miles away from Chatsworth HS and located on the same street. Check out Keith Carradine top right, second from right. Those eyes are enough to make a straight man swoon. 

-------------

I know I've been heavy on requests lately but I'm wondering if anyone has the corresponding documents from Tom O'Neill's notes section of his book, or knows where I will find them.















My first vacation in a year starts next week but unofficially yesterday. I can't promise I won't post fifty-five more times before Monday but will refrain once something big and juicy appears in our queue. Buntline, Welsh Englishman, Tobias, Torque, dare I say even Matt and David. I'd love to read something from you folks if you ever find yourselves suddenly seized by the urge to type. Jay on a film review, maybe?

And seriously, if you're out there reading this and have something to add to the conversation, shoot Matt an email. Fresh takes are welcome and invited. Shoutout to my homie, Mr. Nitelite, for texting all day about this crazy milieu we inhabit. +ggw

Tuesday, April 19, 2022

That you, Donkey?


I was searching for a Danny DeCarlo birthdate on Google using "Danny DeCarlo birthdate" as my query terms. Bupkis. After eleven hours of Cielo boxes yesterday, I lacked the courage to hop back in. Fortunately, cielodrive.com had Danny's birthday on his dedicated page. 

The story told across the Internet is Danny was born in Canada and became an American citizen after serving in the US Coast Guard. I took that to mean Danny arrived in the States as an adult, but always wondered how he ended up in a bike club in Venice, CA. 

Two public records exist for DeCarlo that I am comfy believing are correct. A marriage and subsequent divorce in Oregon. And not to Sherry Cooper. 

Searching Canadian records, I left empty handed. No birth. City directories. Nuthin. 

All of this is probably minutia but I'd like to remove my questions from my mind. I'm wondering if someone here might point me to a record of Danny's early life in Canada? Anything detailing his arrival in the US would be greatly appreciated. A photo in a Coast Guard uniform would be collector level. 

That kid up top looks like Danny to me. They share the same name, and I can't trace the kid beyond his 8th/9th grade photo. Orville Wright middle school feeds students into Westchester and Crenshaw High Schools. 

Danny's high school class would've graduated in 1962 or 1963. I'm guessing Westchester but also not sure Danny attended high school. Perhaps hence the Coast Guard. The Satans' Venice Beach HQ was a short drive from the neighborhoods surrounding the middle school. 

Do we have any early Sixties Westchester grads in the house? Crenshaw where you at? Somebody please help the green. 

Monday, December 10, 2018

The Snitches of Spahn



".. somebody was watching every move he(Manson) made..."
      --Preston Guillory, ex-LASO Deputy who participated in the Spahn Ranch raid


In the wake of the Aug 16, 1969 Spahn Ranch Raid, Charlie and Family thought that someone had ratted them out to the cops.  At the top of their list was ranch hand Shorty Shea, who got murdered because of it.  Frank Retz, a neighbor who allegedly wanted the Mansons gone, is also mentioned in this regard.

But there is evidence that the Family may have had an abundance of snitches:

 www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6001083595175224919&postID=1928290903518938341
sbuch113 said...
"I know a man who was a Jr. Fireman at the fire station near the Spahn Ranch during the Manson era. Years ago he told me of some of the strange goings on at the ranch.  He went into quite a bit of detail about how the ranch was being watched by law enforcement....... Including an on site informant and from strategic hilltop locations. He also talked about the frequent contact fireman had with Manson and others."


Who was it?  Some names:

Ruby Pearl Molinaro

Her obituary said, “She ran the Spahn Ranch where the Manson Gang was caught. She noticed lots of guns and knives in Charles Manson’s dune buggy and called the sheriff. He was then taken into custody.”
www.mailtribune.com/news/20170918/medford-mans-memoir-has-charles-manson-connection
 [Credit to DebS]



Kitty Lutesinger

On page 9 of the Spahn Ranch Raid Report/PDF file we read :

"On the date of August 10, 1969, at approximately 12:15 p.m., your affiant, William G. Gleason, received information from Informant No. 1"
 https://www.scribd.com/document/63876301/Spahn-Ranch-Raid-Report

Author Ed Sanders makes clear that 'Informant No. 1' is Lutesinger::

"On August 10, Sunday, Sergeant William Gleason of the Los Angeles sheriff's office visited Kitty Lutesinger at her parents' ranch where she had fled following Manson's kill-threats. Sergeant Gleason was compiling a file of disturbing information about the Spahn Ranch preparing for a huge police raid to come the following week. He had become aware of Miss Lutesinger when she had run away from the Spahn Ranch on July 30 and Frank Retz had driven her to the police station."
www.mansonblog.com/2017/08/get-shorty-tragic-tale-of-don-shea.html
[Credit to poster 'Jax' and  mansonblog contributor 'Brian G']





Bill Vance.

 It's possible he got pinched in one of those Family burglaries or auto thefts and the cops made a deal with him:  "You be an informant on the goings on at Spahn or you go back to prison!"   Then after all the arrests he just drops from sight.  I have never come across any interview with him, either by media, police, or prosecutors.





Gary Hinman

https://youtu.be/w5FvQFgA2H8
Charles Manson BBC Interview Part 4 8:30 mark
(re Hinman) "He was an informant for the government. He was playing all kinds of treacherous games that he shouldn't have been playing. See when you're in the underworld you got to be truthful. If you lie and you're faking and you're snitching and it catches up with you, it bites you... "




Danny DeCarlo

Bikers are notorious for their hatred of snitches, and everybody knows they operate under a strict 'no snitching' rule.  Though there are apparently exceptions, as this article from 1973 shows:

www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/angels-in-court-the-strange-tale-of-baby-huey-19730215   Feb, 1973
...(Sonny)Barger(of the Hells Angels) testified that over the past few years, he has frequently dealt with the Oakland police to turn over weapons or the locations of weapons to them in return for the release of jailed Angels. It was simple as that; the Angels paid off the police in guns they themselves had peddled to radicals or revolutionaries and in return the police let the Angels operate.

One of the more murkier aspects of the Manson case is where they got all the guns they collected in the spring of '69 and kept up at Spahns, until they were all seized by the Sheriff after the Aug 16 raid.  I think the conventional wisdom says Danny DeCarlo supplied most of them, and DeCarlo, of course, was a member of a biker gang.

So it is entirely possible, then, that the Straight Satans were playing the same game and had the same deal with the law as the Hells Angels did up in the Bay Area.  Supply the guns to the 'radicals' and then snitch them out to the Fuzz.

One could even take it a step further and say that it was 'suggested' to DeCarlo that he hang out with the Family and keep an eye on them, in return for certain favors to be granted to him or his club mates by the court system--like charges to be dropped in other matters.  Certainly it is true that DeCarlo never faced any charges for his activities at the ranch.




Karate Dave Lipsett

Covered in a previous thread:
 https://www.mansonblog.com/2018/09/was-this-family-member-also-undercover.html



 And from the "OO-ee-OO" file, we have

Field Marshall Cinque DeFreeze of the Symbionese Liberation Army

Who Ran The SLA? by Dick Russell
Ann Arbor Sun, January 22, 1976
(Donald) DeFreeze, as an informer for a special Public Disorder Intelligence Unit(of the LAPD), did not want for "useful" tasks. During the fall of 1969, police sources recall DeFreeze informing on the Charles Manson family concerning a planned arms burglary. He next surfaces in Cleveland on October 11...






Now the big question is, if they had an informant within the Family's ranks, why weren't they able to finger the Mansonoids for TLB long before they did?  Or prevent TLB by arresting Charlie and his minions for the murder of Gary Hinman or the attempted murder of Bernard Crowe?


----------------------------

Post-Barker arrests snitches:

One thing is certain-- during the trials, the information received from one or more informants was absolutely reliable:

http://www.cielodrive.com/manson-family-activities-09-16-71.php
Captain A. R. Stoyanoff, Homicide Bureau, advises:

On 12-2-70, information was received that the Manson Family were attempting to purchase or obtain hand grenades.

On 12-9-70, the Intelligence Bureau advised that hand grenades had been stolen from Camp Pendleton and were in the possession of the Manson Family (not confirmed).


On 12-14-70, information was received from an informant that Charles Manson had pulled a string attached to a number of hacksaw blades up through the window from the outside of the Hall of Justice. Information was relayed to the jail and hacksaw blades were recovered on approximately 12-17-70.


On 7-9-71, information was received that Charles Manson had bragged of having the telephone numbers and addresses of investigators, District Attorneys and jail deputies. On that same date, Deputy Stevens, Hall of Justice Jail, received a phone call at his residence from a person he believes to be a female member of the Manson Family.


On 7-14-71, information was received that Kenneth Como, MC/31, a Folsom Prison inmate serving life for robbery, was to be returned to Los Angeles County as a witness for the defense in the Shea murder trial. Further, that Como had been visited by the Manson Family and was a high escape risk.

On 7-22-71, Kenneth Como escaped from the 8th floor of the Old Hall of Records.

[They were warned he could escape.  And then he escapes.  Twice.   Hmmmm...]


On 8-15-71, information was received that Kenneth Como and members of the Manson Family did obtain guns from an unknown location to help free Charles Manson.

On 8-21-71, Kenneth Como, along with members of the Manson Family, robbed the Western Surplus Store in Hawthorne of 67 guns and ammunition and were subsequently arrested in a shoot out.


On 8-24-71, information was received that Judge Raymond Choate, Department 106, would receive a package containing a watch without hands signifying his time was running out.

On 9-3-71, Judge Choate received the package containing the watch with missing hands.


Some names:

Kenneth Como

All you need to know about Kenny-boy Como is that he is transferred from Folsom prison into the LA jails to testify in Charlie's Hinman/Shea trial, despite the fact he had no knowledge of Charlie and Family, nor the victims,  nor the crimes committed.  This did not cause the prosecuting attorney nor judge nor various judicial and prison officials to object.  So the whole transfer was obviously arranged by those who wanted to use Como to act as informant and provocateur.

The acid test was that Como, doing 20 to life for armed robbery in Folsom before he was transferred, gets out in 1981, doing 10 years.  For the two jailbreaks, the armed robbery, the shootout with cops, and two more subsequent attempts to break out of state prison, he got no extra time.  From a convict's standpoint, it was a pretty sweet deal.




"Kevin"

This is the name of some guy who attaches himself to the Family during the TLB trial.  Some suspect he may have been an informant:

"beauders said...
   Hendrickson said that he believed "Kevin" was a police informant. "Kevin" started hanging with the Family due to the press coverage of Manson and the Family's commission of the murders and then up and disappears one day."
https://www.mansonblog.com/2018/09/was-this-family-member-also-undercover.html



-----------------------------------

"To whom shall I speak and give warning That they may hear? Behold, their ears are closed And they cannot listen."
    --  Jeremiah 6:10


Monday, June 19, 2017

Never Trust An Eyewitness

A number of people believe Bugliosi 'coached' witnesses ('coached' to me means: directed their testimony where he wanted it to go before they took the stand-told them how to answer his questions). I think the theory goes like this: Bugliosi invented the Helter Skelter motive from a few philosophical musings Manson may have made during the timeframe. Bugliosi then expanded the thread to become 'Helter Skelter' (perhaps in anticipation of a future book deal). He then communicated Helter Skelter to at least a dozen other witnesses through his coaching and he threatened witnesses if they didn't adopt his theory of the case. He then had them all come to court and tell the story. This never happened.


But.... that doesn't mean we can trust the eyewitnesses and it also doesn't mean Bugliosi didn't influence the testimony of witnesses. He could have done so with no ill intent at all and without even knowing he was doing so.


Eyewitness Memory


It may come as a surprise but eyewitnesses to traumatic events are remarkably unreliable witnesses. Far from being the source of detailed information regarding such events they are frequently wrong and frequently include in their descriptions of events information borrowed from other sources. They seldom actually are able to recount the events with any accuracy a short time after the event.  In fact, eye witness memory is so unreliable that in 2014 the National Academy of Sciences after an extensive review of the issue called for major changes in both law enforcement procedures and the conduct of criminal trials to address the problem. While you read this quote consider these crimes.
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"Factors such as viewing conditions, duress, elevated emotions, and biases influence the visual perception experience. Perceptual experiences are stored by a system of memory that is highly malleable and continuously evolving, neither retaining nor divulging content in an informational vacuum. As such, the fidelity of our memories to actual events may be compromised by many factors at all stages of processing, from encoding to storage and retrieval. Unknown to the individual, memories are forgotten, reconstructed, updated, and distorted."

From the NAS study: Identifying the Culprit: Assessing Eyewitness Identification (2014) 
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Problems When Memory is Encoded


Studies have identified a number of factors that can impact memories at the time the events occur- encoding. One of the most significant is clearly present in this case when it comes to our eyewitnesses: the trauma or the stress level of the event. 


Eyewitnesses to traumatic events frequently have a poorer memory of the event due to the stress of the event. The graph to the left shows how this happens: at the peak (which varies witness to witness) a witness will have clarity and actually remember events perfectly but outside that peak stress zone (too much stress or too little) memory will suffer significantly. They will become 'weapon focused' and remember seemingly inconsequential details while being unable to remember important events or ‘the big picture’. These witnesses will frequently describe their emotional or mental status during the event as 'being in shock'. Aharonian, Ani A. and Bornstein, Brian H., "Stress and Eyewitness Memory" (2008). Faculty Publications, Department of Psychology. University of Nebraska-Lincoln.

In one study subjects were shown a video of a violent attack. They were then asked to identify 40 items of information from the video. The group consistently underperformed a second group who watched a ‘sanitized’ version of the same event. Clifford and Scott (1978)

Examples of this effect can be seen in this case.

In the midst of the horror, after Jay Sebring is shot and Watson is stabbing him, victims are screaming and chaos ensued, Atkins has a vivid recollection of a dog peering in the window of the house- an inconsequential event. When asked in a narrative style to describe to the grand jury what happened this memory is foremost in her mind.

Q: What happened next?
A: There was still some light from outside so that we could see on the inside. I looked over and I saw a dog in the window. The dog ran away.

This effect, some experts warn, can also make the witness appear calloused or cold hearted: 'How could they not see 'X' and notice 'that'? 

Bernard Crowe offers a classic example of weapon focus, carrying the issue one step further and actually requiring the gun to be pointed at him: weapon focus.

Q: I show you People’s 40 for identification. Have you seen that revolver before?
A: Yes, It looks like it. But I was a distance away.
Q: This looks like the revolver Mr. Manson had in his hands when he shot you?
A: Why don’t you point it at me. Then I could tell.
Q: Something like this?
A: Yes. Could be.

Kasabian remembers Frykowski falling into the bushes and can describe this event and the events immediately surrounding it with great detail but never mentions Frykowski and Watson passing within feet (maybe inches) of her as she stood on the walkway when they crossed the walkway into the yard. Frankly, remembering Krenwinkel's 'upraised knife' is likely the result of the traumatic nature of these events. 

How does Kasabian describe her mental state? Being in shock.
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Q (Buglioli). Now, when you say your car, you are not referring to the car of the man in the driveway?
A: No.
Q. You are referring to the car you came in?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you enter the car?
A. Not at first.
Q. Were you by yourself at the time?
A. Yes.
Q. What was your state of mind at that point?.
A. I was in a total state of shock.
*****

Q (Fitzgerald). And at that time you were in a total state of shock; isn’t that correct?
A. Yes.
Q.That has been your previous testimony, that you were in a total state of shock.
A. Yes. 
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The first thing eyewitness memory studies suggest is that it is probable none of our eyewitnesses have accurate memories due to the traumatic nature of these events, alone. This has nothing to do with lying or coaching by Bugliosi. It is simply what happens when a witness is confronted by such violence: their memory suffers. 

Memory Storage Issues


The second place where memories are affected is while they are stored and before they are recounted. 




It is indisputable that the passage of time does not improve eyewitness memory, ever. That is why myself and others rely more heavily on sources closer to the events of July-August 1969 instead of parole hearings and books written years after the events. Witnesses forget and when they do other factors begin to fill in the missing pieces when they are required to recall the past event.

One study compared the accuracy of witness identifications after 3 days and 5 months. The study found no false identifications after 3 days but after 5 months, 35% of identifications were false. Malpass and Devine (1981). Although an admittedly simplistic, non-scientific, approach, given this study by December 1969 our eyewitnesses may have forgotten or reported inaccurately about a third of what occurred on those nights.

Numerous studies have shown that memory changes over time. Eyewitnesses incorporate information learned after the event into their memories. For example, they may talk to another witness, read a newspaper account or see a TV account of the event and use that information to fill in their memories. This is called witness conformity. And if the source is viewed as 'reliable' by the witness the likelihood is even greater that they will adopt the memories of someone else. Gabbert, Fiona; Wright, Daniel B.; Memon, Amina; Skagerberg, Elin M.; and Jamieson, Kat, "Memory Conformity Between Eyewitnesses" (2012). Court Review: The Journal of the American Judges Association.


Eyewitnesses may also fill in holes in their memory by combining two memories into one or by using biases or expectations of what probably was seen or what should have been seen. The image to the right was used in a study in 1947. Allport & Postman 1947. The vast majority of subjects after being shown the picture later identified the African-American as the person holding the razor.

And it seems that as witnesses recall (describe) an event over and over as time passes they drop details from earlier versions and add new details to later versions. These details are frequently obtained from other sources. All things being equal, accuracy declines with each new telling. 

It is, then, plausible that after Susan Atkins' Grand Jury testimony (or her story) became common knowledge (and certainly after the trial) every one of those present at Cielo would begin to adopt what I call the 'official narrative' as their actual memory. This can happen even if, for example someone thought they remembered that Sharon Tate was stabbed on the front porch. They will or could abandon their own memory and adopted someone else's and again, no evil intent need be ascribed. They are simply filling in their own missing information from what someone else who witnessed the event describes. Even if they have a memory of an incident they might abandon theirs if their memory is 'sketchy' and adopt the memory of another because they trust that recollection or it seems more 'solid' then their own.

Why This Happens


Most people conceive of memory like a video tape. Turn it on and the memories play. In reality memory is more like a jigsaw puzzle with pieces missing. Viewing conditions, duress, elevated emotions, other versions of the story and biases increase the number of missing pieces and the passage of time increases the number further. As humans, we attempt to fill in these missing pieces and draw on outside sources.

So how might Bugliosi have influenced the witnesses in this trial?

Memory Recall Issues


This is where I believe Bugliosi had the greatest chance to influence the evidence in this case and he even helps me reach this conclusion by bragging about it. 

Studies show, overwhelmingly, that an interviewer can create memories based on how they interview the witness. By 'create memories' I mean they can fill in those missing jigsaw pieces (and even replace some of the existing pieces with alternatives) through the interview process. I mean they can create memories. 

More importantly the witness will actually come to believe the false or created memory. The witness will confidently adopt that information as their actual memory. That, by the way, will make them less susceptible to impeachment by cross examination because they truly believe it. This is called the ‘misinformation effect’.

Jean Loftus, Phd was one of the leading original psychologists in the study of eyewitness memory. In one study she showed groups a film of two cars having an accident. To one group she asked "How fast was the blue car going when it contacted the red car?" To another group the question was framed as "How fast was the blue car moving when it smashed into the red car?" Those who responded to the second question on average placed the speed of the blue car 10+ mph faster than those asked the first question. (Loftus, Miller, & Burns, 1978)

Misinformation effect can affect memory easily, and without any intention to deceive (Allan & Gabbert, 2008). Even slight differences in the wording of a question can lead to misinformation effects. Subjects in one study were more likely to say ‘yes’ when asked “Did you see the broken headlight?” then when asked “Did you see a broken headlight?” (Loftus, 1975). The image they had previously been shown did not include a broken headlight.

If the interviewer uses leading questions in the interview the misinformation effect is compounded. We already know Bugliosi had a habit of using leading questions in the trial. Why would we believe he was any different in the interview process? We also know he was described by some as having a quick temper (a sign of impatience). That would tend to reinforce the notion he would lead a witness to get to the point quicker. 

Now, what happens after multiple interviews? The witness’s memory of events doesn't deteriorate with multiple interviews instead it gets better. So what's the problem?

The problem is this is usually due to 'created' memories supplied inadvertently (or perhaps purposefully) by the questioner. Multiple interviews fill in those missing pieces of the jigsaw puzzle. Engelhardt, Laura, "The Problem with Eyewitness Testimony" Stanford Journal of Legal Studies, Vol. 1.1 

In this case Bugliosi brags about interviewing witnesses multiple times.
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"I rarely interview a witness just once. Often the fourth or fifth interview will bring out something previously forgotten or deemed insignificant, which, in proper context, may prove vital to my case."

Bugliosi, Vincent; Curt Gentry. Helter Skelter: The True Story of the Manson Murders (p. 274). W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition.
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Danny DeCarlo: 

"I interviewed Danny numerous times, one session lasting nine hours, obtaining considerable information that hadn’t come out in previous interviews."

Bugliosi, Vincent; Curt Gentry. Helter Skelter: The True Story of the Manson Murders . W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition.
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Kasabian:

"I talked to her from 1 to 4: 30 P.M. on the twenty-eighth. It was the first of many long interviews, a half dozen of them lasting six to nine hours, all of which took place at Sybil Brand, her attorney usually the only other person present."

Bugliosi, Vincent; Curt Gentry. Helter Skelter: The True Story of the Manson Murders . W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition.
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It is not surprising Bugliosi brags about this:

"The more times a witness tells his story, the more opportunities there are for discrepancies and contradictions, which the opposing side can then use for impeachment purposes. While some attorneys try to hold interviews and pre-trial statements to a minimum so as to avoid such problems, my attitude is the exact opposite. If a witness is lying, I want to know it before he ever takes the stand. In the more than fifty hours I spent interviewing Linda Kasabian, I found her, like any witness, unsure in some details, confused about others, but never once did I catch her even attempting to lie. Moreover, when she was unsure, she admitted it."

Bugliosi, Vincent; Curt Gentry. Helter Skelter: The True Story of the Manson Murders . W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition.
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He's wrong and in fact what he is doing is creating memories. He is both creating and filling in those missing pieces and when he's done the witness believes it.

Proving Bugliosi Contaminated the Well


The only way to prove Bugliosi had the impact on this trial that he may have had would be if we could actually get our hands on a taped version of his interviews from the first interview through the last.

Are there indications of 'modified' witness memories? I think there are.

Jerrold Friedman


Jerrold Friedman testified on direct examination that he received a call from Steven Parent at 11:45 p.m. But on cross examination he said this:
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I said, "It's awful late, Steve."
He said, "Well, what time is it?"
And I had a clock right by my phone. I picked it up and looked at it and I said "l1:30.
He looked at a clock where he was and said “No its 11:25”.
And then I realized, yeah, I had my clock set five minutes fast so I would never be late for work.

 [Aside: So much for the fact this call was when Steven Parent set the clock.]
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[Aside: By the way, this was actually a rare example of exceptional cross examination in this trial. Kanarek makes Friedman tell the events in a narrative, which causes him to change his original testimony.]  

In fairness, Friedman also said this during his cross examination.
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A: And he said, "Well, I will be there in 15 or 20 minutes," and then he said, "No...better make it 40 minutes so I will be there by 12:30"
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[Aside: This series of exchanges on cross examination likely led to a conversation between Bugliosi and Sam Bubrick at the Watson trial and a stipulation there that the call occurred at 11:50 p.m. Friedman did not testify there.]

To me this testimony shows Freidman having been ‘led’ to 11:45 sometime prior to his testimony and then recalling his actual memory through Kanarek’s examination technique.

Rudolf Weber


Weber was interviewed first by Bugliosi and Calkins at Weber’s house December 29, 1969 and
Calkins again later that afternoon. We know what he told Detective Calkins thanks to Cielodrive.com.
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RUDOLF WEBER: Well, to the best of my recollection…we went to bed around 9 o’clock which is our usual bed time –
SGT. ROBERT CALKINS: Who…Who is we? excuse me.
RUDOLF WEBER: My wife and I.
SGT. ROBERT CALKINS: Would you identify your wife, please?
RUDOLF WEBER: Her name in Mila(?)
SGT. ROBERT CALKINS: Alright, thank you.
RUDOLF WEBER: We, uh – ‘cause I have to be at work at 6 o’clock in the morning. So, about – it must’ve been about 1 o’clock, I heard the uh, the sound of, running water.
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But during his trial testimony he gets more certain.
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Q: Did anything unusual happen that night sir, after you went to bed?
A: Well, it was about 1:00 o’clock in the morning, that would be Saturday morning.
****
Q: How do you know it was 1:00.
A: Because I looked at the clock.
____

Notice how between December 29, 1969 the date of the interview and August 19, 1970 the date of his trial testimony when his memory should fade Weber's memory actually improved. To me this suggests he received a little help in filling in the missing pieces. I’d also point out that he doesn’t answer Bugliosi’s initial question but blurts out 1:00, a sign that something isn't right, but I’ve done that before.

Timothy Ireland


The First Tate Homicide Investigation report notes:

“Between 0100 and 0130 Mr. Ireland was awake, alert and watching the sleeping children. He heard a male voice from what seemed to him a long distance away to the north or northeast shout, 'Oh, God, no. Stop. Stop. Oh, God, no, don't'. Ireland said that the scream persisted for approximately 10 seconds. The male voice was clear and he did not notice an accent.”

At trial, presumably also after having spoken to someone at the DA‘s office in preparation for trial, Mr. Ireland changed his answer. He now places the scream at precisely 12:40 a.m. basing the change on what Mr. Sparks told him regarding the time.
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Q: About what time was this?
A: Approximately 12:40 a.m.
*****
Q: You say you told Sergeant Henderson that it was between 1:00 and 1:30 a.m.
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Now, what caused you to change your mind about the time.
A: When I talked again to Mr. Sparks, who was the man I first contacted about hearing the noise and asked if I could look around the camp, he said the time was 12:45, because he noticed it on his watch.
*****
Q: You spoke to Sparks a second time after you spoke to Henderson?
A: Yes, sir, I spoke to Henderson and Lee and Richards.
____

Bugliosi did interview Ireland before the trial. But more importantly this illustrates how memories can be impacted by the memories of other witnesses. Here, the impact may be innocuous, but clearly Ireland’s actual memory of the events changed because of what Sparks said and by August 19, 1970 he believed it. In August 1969 he did not: witness conformity.

The Jakobson Interview


To really determine what Bugliosi did we would need to have tapes of all his interviews. We have the taped interview of Gregg Jakobson by Bugliosi on February 20, 1970. It can be found Cielodrive.com. The problem is the interview is clearly not the first of Jakobson and not the first of Jacobson by Bugliosi. This is noted about 30 seconds into the interview. We can’t really track if Bugliosi's style had any impact because we don’t have the starting point. But from my review of that interview I can say this:

Bugliosi repeatedly throughout the interview uses two approaches that according to all those experts above are going to impact Jakobson’s memory. He asks leading questions. He also makes statements about what ‘others’ have already told him and asks Jakobson to confirm their viewpoint. Sometimes Jakobson does and sometimes he doesn’t. When he doesn’t did Bugliosi then go back to the other witness and interview him again? We don't know.

In my opinion this tape confirms that Bugliosi is doing precisely what he should not have done and he is likely affecting the witness’s memory. Unfortunately, we can’t see the impact because we don’t have the starting point to compare. This is one of three interviews Bugliosi conducted with Jakobsen and not the first.

[Aside: To me, Jakobson’s testimony is a lot of fun to read. Aside from the fact the ‘anti-Helter
Skelter wing’ never seem to actually explain him away, in my opinion, defense counsel are revealed as utterly inept. 

Jakobson gives quite a dissertation on Helter Skelter and is aided significantly by Fitzgerald’s robust cross examination which allows him to repeat much of it. His ‘real’ client wrote what on the fridge, again? Why let him bang the drum twice!

Hughes’ only possible defense, and only chance to avoid the death penalty for his actual client, is Manson’s control over Van Houten. Hughes does an exemplary job of proving the independence of the family members, especially the girls, and Manson’s lack of control. 

Shinn seems to want to ‘bond’ with Jakobson about trees and nature and Kanarek strives mightily to prove Manson had a right to have a grudge against Jakobson and Melcher for misleading him about that record deal through Melcher. Can you say secondary motive?

Several times Bugliosi objects and then says ‘objection withdrawn’ when he realizes the improper question actually helps his case. 

[Aside: What on earth could they be smiling about? They didn't get paid and they didn't win. And three of them threw their clients under the bus. IMO]

From the available evidence it appears that Bugliosi breaks three of the memory rules.

     1. He interviews the witness multiple times.

     2. He asks leading and suggestive questions in those interviews.

     3. He acts as a bridge between witnesses. He carries witness #1’s memories to witness #2. In other words, he facilitates witness conformity through his interview style.

Could these three factors, if applied to Kasabian over six interviews and 50 +/- hours, have impacted the accuracy of her testimony? Yes. In fact, the probability is very high.

One last point. This doesn’t mean Bugliosi is 'unethical' or 'evil' or 'broke the law'. Probably most of you have heard the Jakobson interview long before this post and never even noticed anything. Probably, neither did Bugliosi. It’s just his style and to him it was effective even if it was effective for all the wrong reasons. His quote above is revealing. He recognized that witness memory 'improved' through his methodology. He didn't recognize that it may have been doing so because he was providing the missing pieces. 

Now if he was consciously doing this, knowing he would effect their testimony…..that would be a different story. 

[Aside: Why is Bugliosi standing like that, facing the wall like he's in the corner? I mean the wall is too big to be an office door, isn't it?]


Pax Vobiscum



Dreath