Monday, December 31, 2012

Flagship statement from Susan Atkins' website

 From Alisa Statman:

The Susan Atkins website ( was recently brought to my attention and I am absolutely outraged by their flagship statement on the opening page:
“[Susan] has all of these things she’s done, all these committees, all these organizations, all these degrees. And I am 60 years old and I don’t know of anybody who has done all these things.” (Jay Sebring’s Sister, 2005)
This is a complete and knowingly gross mis-representation of a victim’s impact statement. What Jay’s sister actually said is what we put in Restless Souls:
“She’s got all these things she’s done, all these committees, all these organizations, all these degrees, but the bottom line is, she’s just as much a murderer today as she was thirty-six years ago because my brother is just as dead as he was thirty-six years ago.”
I would not dare to judge someone’s religious beliefs or integrity of truthfulness, but when a born-again-Christian outright lies on their cover page by mis-quoting one of their victims next of kin—right next to sub-topics such as “Bible Studies” and “Restitution Project”—I felt the mis-quote needed to be addressed in an equally public forum.

I realize that Atkins is long gone and that this website is run by her “estate” i.e. James Whitehouse, but it serves as Atkins’ representation (much like Whitehouse representing her at parole hearings) and it’s done in her memory. And, if she were still alive and having parole hearings I think Jay Sebring’s family would be justified in bringing it up in their impact statement to question her remorse, and therefor rehabilitation.

Sunday, December 30, 2012

New Charles Manson Book

image from scared monkeys video

There's a new book coming out about Charles Manson, "Manson: The Life and Times of Charles Manson" by Jeff Guinn.  This one has an enormous lead time as it's not due out until August 2013.  It has a couple of things going for it.  It promises new information on Charlie and it is being published by the major publishing house, Simon and Schuster.  Major publishers generally insist on sourcing and fact checking so hopefully this new book will not leave anyone wondering what is true and what is not.

If your a collector of Manson related books the pre-order price is reasonable and you'll be assured of getting a first edition.

Here's the blurb from Amazon-

August 6, 2013
Based on new interviews with previously undiscovered relatives and filled with revelations and unpublished photographs, this is the most authoritative account of the life of Charles Manson. After more than forty years, Charles Manson continues to mystify and fascinate us. One of the most notorious criminals in American history, Manson and members of his mostly female commune killed nine people, including pregnant actress Sharon Tate. Now, drawing on new information, bestselling author Jeff Guinn tells the definitive story of how this ordinary delinquent became a murderer. Manson helps us understand what obsessed him and, most terrifying of all, how he managed to persuade others to kill. Guinn interviewed Manson’s sister and cousin, neither of whom has ever previously cooperated with an author. Childhood friends, cellmates, and even some members of the Manson Family have provided new information about Manson’s life. Guinn has made discoveries about the night of the Tate murders, answering unresolved questions, such as why one person on the property was spared. There are even photographs of Manson’s childhood and youth that have never previously been seen outside private family albums. Putting Manson in the context of his times, the turbulent end of the Sixties, Guinn shows how Manson represented the dark side of a generation. He came to Los Angeles hoping to get a recording contract, and the murders were directly related to his musical ambitions, although he cloaked them in a bizarre race-war theory. He was, in the words of one person who knew him, just like many other rock star wannabes—except that he was a killer."

Saturday, December 29, 2012

The Witches' Lair, Part 2

Deb found an article in the Anderson Valley Advertiser from June 26, 1968 that reads: "In the early hours of last Saturday, at the Alice Ostrom Price house 7 miles north of Philo, there occured incidents which have shocked all residents of the Anderson Valley community." The article is referring to the bust in which Mary Brunner, Susan Atkins, Ella Jo Bailey, Stephanie Rowe and others were picked up on drug and prostitution charges on June 22 of that year.

The name Alice Ostrom Price has always been a name that Patty has kept in the back of her head. She has been looking for references to the place for years to no avail.

Enter DebS, of the mad skills. She thought of looking into old deeds to see if we couldn't find The Witches Lair, off Boonville Road, between Navarro and Philo. She did a special trip to Ukiah last month and wrote Patty the following:

"I had a successful trip to Ukiah! There was only one property in the records that had Alice Ostrom Price's name. I looked on a map and it looks like it's the right property about 7 miles north of Philo.

Attached are a Grant Deed and Deed of Trust related to the property. The Grant Deed has the parcel number on it. It's the AP# 26-260-21 under the escrow number in the upper left corner box of the document. This document is from Alice selling the property in 1971 to Frances Granger. Granger sold the property in 1987 to someone named Brennen. In 2002 Brennen merged the parcel with another that they owned, AP# 26-260-30 and the two parcels together became AP# 20-260-32.

I went to the Assessors office to find out the physical address from the parcel number. I double checked the history of the parcel numbers with the lady that helped me and all that was correct. The present address of the property is, drum roll......."

Friday, December 28, 2012

Add a bible to that White Album and you get........

While trying to find verification on how real the signed Manson Family White Album, I found there is also a bible signed by the same Family members for sale by the same dude. 

 Charles Manson Susan Atkins autograph signed bible x5

This bible has been signed on the first free endpage by
Charles Manson, Leslie Van Houten, Pat Krenwinkel, Susan Atkins and
Charles "Tex" Watson. All are in blue ballpoint except Van Houten,
which is black. Manson added "Easy" and a swastika through his
signature. The signatures were obtained by a gentleman who was at
one time with the Manson family while at the Spahn ranch. I choose
not to post his name here. The signatures were acquired at Corcoran
State Prison, the California Institute for Women and Mule Creek
State Prison, all in California. This hardcover edition of the
bible was printed by Thomas Nelson and Sons, 1953.

Below is the link that claims the White Album is also genuine.

The signed White Album has made for some good blogging conversations huh?  I know I read or was told years ago that the signed White Album was really truely genuine.  Maybe Eviliz was duped?
I think Deb is going to get us to the bottom of this once and for all.  Stay tuned.

He's sexy and he knows it!

Wiggle wiggle wiggle with it!
New pic of Chuck from Manson Direct.  It might not be new to you but it is new to Randy J. and I.

Heyyyyyyy, is that a weddin' ring on his finger?? 
Which one of you ladies from the blog got hitched to Charlie and didn't invite us to the wedding? 


Southpark and More.... Charlie Cartoons

Evili'z opionion of this pic is-well you can guess right? It contains a WTF in it.

This artwork is for sale at-

Thursday, December 27, 2012

Q & A Who Dat?

Does anyone know who the guy on the left is?  And the girl with the frizzy hair next to him-is that Kay Wallace or Bo Rosenberg?


Wednesday, December 26, 2012

Matthew Roberts DNA Test

Photo from

Here's something that seems to have slipped by unnoticed.  In an effort to verify whether or not Matthew Roberts is indeed Charles Manson's son CNN did a DNA test on Roberts by comparing his DNA to Manson's alledged grandson, cage fighter Jason Freeman.  To both men's surprise there was no DNA match between the two.

Read the story here-

In an effort to try to understand why Robert's or anyone else claiming to be related to Manson couldn't just petition the State of California to be allowed to do DNA comparisons from what is in the prison system records I learned that Manson, as well as any of the others convicted in the "Manson Murders" most likely do not have their DNA on record.

I found this document regarding the collection of DNA from California inmates. It is widely assumed that because a person is imprisoned for a felony crime that his DNA is automatically taken and entered into a database. After reading this document I do not believe this is the case. It seems that the law requiring the DNA collection is not retroactive but only applies to those arrested after a certain date. Here is a quote from the document--

" Collection of DNA samples from an adult arrested for a felony offense must be based solely upon the offense that was the basis for the arrest.

The January 1, 2009, provisions governing DNA sample collection from adults arrested for any felony offense are not retroactive and so do not permit collection for arrests that took place prior to 2009"

Here is a link to the document so that you can study it yourself and see if I have reached the proper conclusion. It is a five page pdf.

Check It Out!!

The real question is WHY would the government send an under cover agent into the dangerous Manson Gang?  For a limited time,anyone can get a signed 1973 MANSON DVD (including 1st class shipping)
"IF" they mention "EVILIZ OFFER" and use PayPal.  ONLY $25.00  HOLLAR!

Happy Holidays To All!

Robert and Tobyann

Tuesday, December 25, 2012

Merry Christmas extends best wishes to you and yours this Holiday Season!

Monday, December 24, 2012

True Police Cases April 1970

"Purple prose is a term of literary criticism used to describe passages, or sometimes entire literary works, written in prose so extravagant, ornate, or flowery as to break the flow and draw attention to itself. Purple prose is sensually evocative beyond the requirements of its context. It also refers to writing that employs certain rhetorical effects such as exaggerated sentiment or pathos in an attempt to manipulate a reader's response."  wikipedia

It would be tough to find anything more purple than this story in the written works about the Manson Family.  Surprisingly, it is fairly accurate aside from the style of writing.  My favorite is the description of Manson as "a raunchy, runty, renegade".

Sunday, December 23, 2012

The Witches' Lair, Part 1


Patty loves to go photograph Family related places, as you all well know. Deb likes researching those places and tracking down people who were there. The two of us had an amazing time together tracking down a place where The Witches of Mendocino once lived.

There are two places that we know of for sure: the one we did not visit is located in the little coastal town of Caspar, which is about 40 miles northwest of Ukiah:
The building in which The Witches lived in late 1967 or early 1968 was located at 45310 Pacific Drive. It has variously been a ranch, a Zen monastery, a satellite college campus, hippie commune and alternative healing center.  Today, the compound called "Caspar Gardens" houses a psychotherapist, a daycare center and a massage studio:


It is right on the edge of the continent between highway one and the crashing surf. Patty is always amazed at the beauty of the places in which The Family turned up. These places were out of the way, and most of them are as wild and undeveloped today as they were over 40 years ago:
As Patty mentioned, this is not the house in which the girls lived when arrested in the summer of 1968 for charges involving prostitution and drug posession. That place was inland between the towns of Philo and Navarro in the beautiful Anderson Valley. And guess what? Deb found it! We got closeups! Wanna see? Well, you are just going to have to wait for a little bit. We're mean like that.

Friday, December 21, 2012

Q&A On The Manson Gang

Question from one of our gold staus members RANDY J.

In the Hendrickson docs who is the long haired hippy looking dude? I don't know his name.
He has blondish real long hair that is almost dreading...I think he runs naked with Gypsy in the desert.  Know him?   Love your blog and love the peoples idea part-it's great!!

If you have sent Q&As in the past, I apologize for not posting them promptly.
It was my error but I think I shall blame it on Panamint Patty instead.

PLEASE keep the questions coming.  We are running low.

e-mail them to Eviliz @
(And don't forget to inquire how you can achieve gold member status too)

Q&A 4 part girls question

From: Eddie






Larry "White Rabbit" Interview from 1976

Here we go again, dear readers, I bring you another Larry "White Rabbit" Melton item to read. In this interview, he calls himself "Ari." He is clearly delusional, but it is an interesting read. Enjoy:

Is Helter Skelter Really, Finally Over? Checking In With The Manson Family:

From Swank Magazine (December, 1976) Interview with Larry “White Rabbit” Melton
Interview By: Ben Pesta:

What is Manson’s family up to today? To answer that question, SWANK editor Ben Pesta sought out a former Family member, one who’d been with Manson since the early days in San Francisco’s Haight-Ashbury district. Though this Family drop out was never personally involved in any of the murders, he kept (and still keeps) in touch with some of the Mansonoid regulars, both in, and out of prison. For obvious reasons, he has asked that SWANK keep his name anonymous. He prefers to use the alias “Ari Ben Canaari”-the name of a character in Leon Uris’ novel, Exodus.

SWANK: When did you first join the family?

ARI: 1967, when I got to the Haight. I was living in a commune, 532 Clayton Street. At the time, Charlie had got out of prison. He was around then, and it was him, and a few girls that had more sense. They were living at Cole Street, and they had come by our house, and they did a stand there for about two weeks. They lived with us, and we were good friends, and I hung, and that was it. Then one day they came into the house, and said, “Anyone wanna go? Come on, let’s go. The bus is leaving.” And they got in their black bus and split. And that was the last I saw of them.

SWANK: Until when?

ARI: About a year later, not a whole year, but in 1968, I was in L.A. with my girlfriend Shannon, and we were on Sunset, and I ran into Susan Atkins, and Patricia Krenwinkel. They were giving away doughnuts, and we started talking, and they invited me up to their ranch, and that was it. I stayed. I liked it. It was a friendly group of people. They were interested in balling, and having fun, sex.

SWANK: What did you think of Charlie when you first met him?

ARI: Really nice guy.

SWANK: Really?

ARI: He was just a really friendly guy. Of course, you could tell he was old….and he kind of used the guys.

SWANK: After his arrest, there were some allegations about Charlie’s hypnotic eyes and the weird power he was supposed to have over the other people in the Family. Did you notice any of that?

ARI: Debatable. I mean, his eyes were kinda magnetic, I have to agree to that. He was really far out. His eyes were just kinda, like, spacey-like. If you’d look into his eyes, he’d just kinda get to you. But if you knew what his game was, it never bothered you. It didn’t bother most of the guys at all. It was only the girls that went on trips about it.

SWANK: Were you with the Family when the Tate-LaBianca killings occurred?

ARI: No, the Tate-LaBianca thing happened on August 8th or 9th, 1969, and I had left the Family in June of 1969. I just wanted to go back to Berkeley for a few weeks to get things together, and visit my friends, and I told Charlie I’d be back, and I never did come back until after he was arrested. But they had already committed about four murders by then.

SWANK: Were you around for any of those?

ARI: Yeah, the first one. The first one was Clida Delaney and Nancy Warren. This was when Charlie sent the girls up north, up to Ukiah, and some Family members killed those two girls.

SWANK: Why were they killed?

ARI: Basically, lots of reasons. They were killed ‘cause they knew the Family, both of them. See, the girls used to be known as the Witches of Ukiah, and they had a house up there, and Sadie had a kid up there, and…..

SWANK: “The Witches Of Ukiah”-that was Charlie’s girls?

ARI: Yeah, cause when they were up there…..they were there for the trial, that was the main reason. And the Family in those days, and up until the end were doing all kinds of credit-card ripoffs. And the two girls, Warren and Delaney were wise to it, and they killed them.

(Editor’s Note: Bugliosi’s Helter Skelter says that on October 13th, 1968, Clida Delaney, and Nancy Warren were first beaten, then strangled to death with leather thongs, south of Ukiah, California. The Mendocino County Sheriff’s Office at one time suspected that the murders might be linked to Manson, since several Mansonoids were in the area at the time, and since two days later, the Family abruptly moved from the Spahn movie ranch near Chatsworth, a Los Angeles suburb, to the Barker ranch, south of Death Valley. No link was ever proved.)

ARI: (Continued from above) And the second murder was in December of 1968, and that was a girl named Marina Habe. She was killed for the reason that she had known Family members. She got killed because she was with someone that pulled a credit-card heist, and they wanted to kill her to back it up.

(Editor’s Note: Bugliosi reports that on December 30th, 1968, 17-year-old Marina Habe was kidnapped from her mother’s house in West Hollywood. She was found on January 1st, 1969-dead of multiple stab wounds in the head and neck. She was rumored to have known some Family members, though these rumors were never confirmed. To date, her murder remains unsolved. To date, her murder remains unsolved.)

ARI: (continued from above) That was the last Family murder until they killed Gary Hinman.

(Editor’s Note: Nothing unsolved about that one. Susan Atkins pleaded guilty, and received a life sentence. In separate trials for Charlie, Bruce Davis, and Steve “Clem” Grogan on the combined Hinman-Shorty Shea murder charges, all three men were found guilty and sentenced to life.)

SWANK: How many were there in all, before the second trial-the one for the murder of Shorty Shea, whose corpse they never found?

ARI: Well, Shorty was about the twelfth murder. After Gary Hinman, you’ve got Tate-LaBianca, which brings it to eleven right there. Shorty made it twelve. Then, of course, the lie that the Family tells that Zero committed suicide.

SWANK: Zero?

ARI: John Philip Haught. There’s all kinds of rumors about that. The Family says the way it goes is that they were sitting around in the bedroom, and he had a gun, and he was going to play Russian roulette. Only it couldn’t of been Russian roulette, because all the chambers were full. He was killed by the Family. Hard to prove that one; they didn’t find any fingerprints ‘cause the guy who did it was wearing gloves.

SWANK: Yeah. They never indicted anyone for that.

ARI: Right. That was the one that they got away with completely clean and free.

SWANK: Probably the most celebrated Manson connection was his friendship with the Beach Boys’ Dennis Wilson, yet not many of the details have appeared in the press. Were you around at the time?

ARI: On and off. I’d come up from Berkeley a few times to go to the house. Dennis Wilson was really into it in those days. The rest of the Beach Boys couldn’t stand Charlie.

SWANK: But Dennis got on with the Family?

ARI: Yeah, all the way. He really loved them.

SWANK: The commonly-told story is that Charlie had rock ‘n’ roll ambitions, and that Dennis was going to produce his records.

ARI: Yeah, he recorded Charlie. And he was going to do an album. He mentioned some stuff about it, but he really couldn’t get anyone to buy it, and that was when the Beach Boys were fighting. And Charlie wrote a song for the Beach Boys. He sold it to Dennis Wilson for a motorcycle.

SWANK: Which song?

ARI: The song was “Cease To Exist.” And what happened to the song was that Dennis Wilson changed the title and changed a few words.

SWANK: What did he change it to?

ARI: From “Cease to Exist” to “Cease to Resist,” and he changed that title to “Never Learn Not to Love.” It’s on an album called 20/20.

SWANK: I have that one. I’ll have to check the liner notes to see if Charlie gets a credit.

ARI: He doesn’t. It’s in Dennis Wilson’s name. Charlie sold the song outright.

SWANK: What caused the falling-out between Dennis and the Family? Was it pressure from the other Wilson brothers?

ARI: Pretty much. ‘Cause that’s the way the Wilson brothers were. They didn’t like Charlie at all. Just couldn’t stand him. You know how Dennis met the Family in the first place?


ARI: He’d picked up two of the girls hitchhiking. And he went on a tour, and the Family was in there.

SWANK: In his house?

ARI: Yeah.

SWANK: Surprise, Dennis?

ARI: And Dennis kinda like said later it cost him something like $100,000.

SWANK: Ari, the usual explanation of the Manson murders, the explanation the prosecutor Bugliosi used to convince the jury, goes something like this: Charlie had listened to the Beatles’ White Album, and had picked up the idea that the song “Helter Skelter” was actually a secret message from John, Paul, George and Ringo to him. The message was that Charlie should go out and kill some people, murder them in such a way that the public would blame it all on the blacks. This would touch off an apocalyptic race war, which the blacks would win. After a while, the blacks would realize that they were incapable of running the world, and would turn for assistance to Charlie, who had wisely been sitting out the war in a hole out in Death Valley. Then Charlie would come in and take over as king of the world. My question is, where do you think Charlie came up with such an absolutely bozo idea?

ARI: Well, he’d been in prison all his life. He’d had all kinds of problems with that. He came out, and people didn’t……..He had finally found this guy that was friendly, and it really turned him on that someone was friendly to him. He had gone through shit all his life and here was some guy being friendly. He got his family together, and when Dennis Wilson tried to peddle his tapes, nobody would take them. Terry Melcher promised Charlie that he would record him and put out an album, and Melcher reneged on him. Just a lot of things came up, and he was thinking of Helter Skelter, and then, of course, the big dope burn, and that was the whole deal.

SWANK: Which dope burn?

ARI: Like, the whole thing, he got ripped off for a lot of money on a dope deal. That’s what started the Tate murders. I got that from the girls. They were dealing. At that time, L.A. was like, the big……like the communes, they were really heavy. They were, like, the holding grounds for all the big dope. And the Family bought some…..were supposed to buy some from the Tate people. Abigail Folger and Victor….

SWANK: Voytek Frykowski?

ARI: Frykowski, right. He was dealing a new drug from Canada called MDA, and they had burned Manson and all on the same dope deal. They took the Family for something like $50,000.

SWANK: So the selection of victims in the Tate case wasn’t as arbitrary as is generally supposed?

ARI: No. And the same thing with the next night’s. It was all connected. See, Leno LaBianca was a bookie. He owed some money to pay off a bet, and he hadn’t paid off yet, and the Family wanted to get the money from LaBianca. That was the reason they picked LaBianca.

SWANK: On whose authority is all this information?

ARI: Squeaky’s. Squeaky and Country Sue. (Editor’s Note: Family member Susan Bartell.)

SWANK: Earlier you mentioned you’d separated from the Family a couple months previously to the Tate-LaBianca murders. When you heard about all of it, were you a little surprised?

ARI: No. ‘Cause there was just too much stuff going down with the Family. They were getting shit on, you know, and things were getting heavy. Charlie even kicked Susan Atkins off the place. It was just something else. He let her back in, and she was the happiest girl in the world.

SWANK: After Charlie went to jail, how did the Family hold itself together?

ARI: It didn’t. It kind of drifted apart. ‘Cause I remember I was in New York at the time the case broke. I was in New York City, up in the East Village trying to get a hold of Abbie Hoffman, and some other people, trying to make some Weather Connections, and I read about it in the Daily News. And as soon as I saw the pictures in there, I knew what was going on, and I left New York that night. I flew back to California. I was in Berkeley. The Family all started kinda merging back together at the Spahn Ranch after it was all over. People got out of jail up north, and people got out of jail from the prison where they were holding Charlie after they busted him at Death Valley, and brought him back to L.A. The Family that got free suddenly started coming back together, and I came on back down-for a while anyway-and spent weekends down there. The Family was getting together to have a united defense. The girls and me were talking about putting on a couple of rock concerts. We were going to get the Grateful Dead, and the Jefferson Airplane as a bail benefit. But both bands wanted too much money. We couldn’t afford it. And that kinda died. Then we came up with the ideas, which we later did, of selling t-shirts and Charlie Manson pictures, and posters, and albums to raise money.

SWANK: Were you able to raise much?

ARI: I was helping, but there was all kinds of things coming down. See, the girls were pulling all these numbers down there.

SWANK: Such as?

ARI: They would lie to the defense attorneys. Like, especially Fitzgerald (Editor’s Note: Paul Fitzgerald, Manson’s first, court-appointed defense counsel), they’d tell Fitzgerald that they needed this many dollars to survive this week, and he was literally supporting them. Oh, they had money of their own, but they would tell him they were broke.

SWANK: How soon after the trial did the Family start to drift back together again?

ARI: About a month before the trial started, everyone started getting back together. Like, the day I came back they called me up, and said it was very important to come down.

SWANK: Had Squeaky Fromme already emerged as the new boss?

ARI: Yeah. Well, her and Country Sue. She was Charlie’s lieutenant.

SWANK: How did Charlie send instructions to Squeaky from prison?

ARI: Through different people. There was always guys getting out of jail, and he always passed notes. There’s all kinds of prison things about passing notes. He would give a message to Kanarek (Editor’s Note: Irving Kanarek, another Manson defense counsel) or whatever, and they would pass it on to the Family. There’s just all kinds of ways they could do it.

SWANK: The one name I often hear in connection with Charlie nowadays is that of the Aryan Brotherhood. I understand that it’s an organization of white prisoners in California, a couple hundred strong, that banded together more or less in response to all the black prisoners who were joining the Panthers and the Muslims. And I also understand that they don’t have much use for blacks.

ARI: I don’t know much about them other than they’re a prison group of neo-Nazis, and they have this big philosophy. I don’t exactly even know the philosophy, but it’s sort of like the Family’s. The Aryan Brotherhood had a deal with Charlie: If he got convicted, he could do sort of easy time if he joins them. So in return for Charlie joining up, they get to borrow any of the Family girls anytime they want to when they get out. So Charlie could pass the message through the Brotherhood to the girls, and the girls would tell the guys what to do, and if they wanted someone killed, they would kill them.

SWANK: What happened with the Family right after Charlie was arrested? What was the general reactions?

ARI:  Well, we were sitting around the Spahn Ranch, keeping, like, a lookout. And one night the girls told everyone I was leaving. They took me into the side room, and talked to me and said they talked to Charlie, and if I really loved Charlie they wanted me to…..they would give me a couple members of the Manson Family, some girls, and some guys, and they would send me to San Francisco, and they wanted me to duplicate the Tate murders.

SWANK: On whom?

ARI: One whom? Whoever I picked.

SWANK: Oh, just at random.

ARI: They would give me the rope, the whole works. And after I did it, when I got arrested I was supposed to tell them I did the Tate-LaBianca murders. And then Charlie would go free. And they told me that in six months, I would be free, ‘cause there was no proof that I did anything. And by then Charlie would be back in Devil’s Hole in Death Valle, and they would never find him. Then they would release me.

SWANK: What was your reaction to this little scheme?

ARI: Shock. I said I would think about it. “Sure, I’ll do it. Le me think about it for awhile.”
SWANK: That sounds sort of like the time Nixon sent Haldeman out to tell Mitchell that Mitchell ought to take the rap for Watergate.

ARI: So I said, “Okay, I’m going to go to San Francisco, and get things set up, and then I’ll come back tomorrow, and pick up the stuff.” Well, I split. It scared the shit out of me.

SWANK: What do you think about all the books, movies, and whatnot that were inspired by the Tate-LaBianca killings? Did you read Ed Sanders book, The Family?

ARI: Yeah. I was in it. It was really good. It was the most realistic book about the Family ever written.

SWANK: What about Helter Skelter, the book that Vinnie Bugliosi, the prosecutor wrote with Curt Gentry?

ARI: There’s facts in there. But his is a different angle on it. It doesn’t really come out with what the Family is about. You have to read them both together.

SWANK: But is Helter Skelter mostly true, in your opinion?

ARI: Well, you look at Shorty Shea, and how they killed him. It’s something else from what Bugliosi wrote.

SWANK: How did they kill him then?

ARI: I got this from Country Sue, and Sandra Good. And what they did with Shorty was…….well, you know, he had snitched on them, and Charlie has a prison saying about what you do with snitches.

SWANK: I believe I’ve heard that saying.

ARI: And so they got Shorty out there, and they had tied him up, and all that so he couldn’t move, and the girls started giving him head. And just before he came-just as he came-they chopped his head off. The girls said he had reached Now. He reached the highest he could get, and all the girls took turns in giving him head, and they gave him Now. And when he came, they chopped his head off, and they chopped him into about a thousand pieces. They’ll never find him.

SWANK: Let’s talk about the Family’s more recent adventures. Do you know anything about Squeaky’s attempt to kill President Ford?

ARI: I was in Tennessee last December, just about the time that it happened. Sandy Good called me. ‘Cause she was in jail. They called me, and they wanted to get the Family back together for a united defense for Squeaky. So I said, “Okay, I’ll come down, and see what I can do.” I felt sorry for them. Sandy had me kiss both their feet to apologize. So I did, it didn’t bother me much. And I went back with them, and that was pretty much it. And the girls told me that she was pissed off that she missed.

SWANK: Squeaky, you mean?

ARI: Yeah. She was pissed off ‘cause of the Sacramento papers. The Family had stopped being in the news, and they got tired of it. They wouldn’t give them and publicity, so she got pissed off, and wanted to do something that would get the Family back in the world press.

SWANK: She did.

ARI: Sure did. Well, I was in court with Squeaky, and Sandra for a couple of days, and they got really pissed off at me.


ARI: ‘Cause I made a couple of cracks about the girls. I told them how I really still loved Susan Atkins, and Squeaky said, “Forget about her. Sadie’s in jail. We’re going to bust them out” and all that crap. She was telling me all about the International People’s Court of Retribution, which in reality was Squeaky, Sandy, this other woman that was staying at the house, and about ten members of the Aryan Brotherhood, and that’s it. There was no real organization.

SWANK: So the whole genesis of the Ford plot wasn’t any kind of secret instruction from Charlie….it was just Squeaky’s insane desire for publicity?

ARI: It was to please Charlie.

SWANK: Well, it’ll certainly help Charlie when his parole hearing comes up.

ARI: Right.

SWANK: What kind of leadership qualities does Squeaky possess that allowed her to take over after Charlie went to the slammer?

ARI: Well, she gave orders. Everyone obeyed. She was kind of like a marine D.I. And people really love to ball her. So whatever she said, they did.

SWANK: Just because they liked to fuck her?

ARI: Yes. The guys did, and if they weren’t nice to her, and didn’t do what she said, she wouldn’t screw. She had the power of fuck over everybody that was living there. Basically, the way she did it was she had a fuck-list, and if you got her angry, that’s when she’d be indifferent. She’d take your name off the list, and you couldn’t fuck.

SWANK: She was that good at it?

ARI: Yeah, every girl in the Family did what she said.

SWANK: Every guy, you mean.

ARI: And girl. Because she got in a couple of fights, and kicked them out. Once that happened, her word was law. And when she got messages from Charlie, they would have to obey what she said. There was no doubt.

SWANK: Gee, and Squeaky always seemed so little, and mousy…..

ARI: But she’s got a punch that’ll knock you on your keister!

SWANK: Where’s the Family located today?

ARI: Some members of the Family are in Apple Valley, California. And other parts of it are in Sacramento. And some other members are in Stockton.

SWANK: But they all keep in touch?

ARI: Yeah, right now, the leader of the Family with both Squeaky, and Sandy Good in jail is between two girls, Country Sue, and Gypsy. (Editor’s Note: Family member Catherine Share) You’ve heard about Susan Atkins, haven’t you?

SWANK: Sue supposedly has religion now, hasn’t she?

ARI: How’d you hear about it?

SWANK: Never mind.

ARI: See, I just got a letter from Susan last night, and Susan tells me that she’s completely turned to Jesus. She’s the only one I write to. The first time I wrote her, I wrote, “Dear Sexy.” You know, Sexy Sadie, her Family nickname. And she told me in her next letter, “I ain’t Sexy Sadie Mae Glutz, I’m Susan, I’ve found God.”

SWANK: Was Susan Atkins your closest friend in the Family?

ARI: Yeah. I loved her.

SWANK: What’s she like?

ARI: Very warm, very friendly, but a little schizy. Like, Charlie used to say she brought gorillas to the Family. And gorillas is Charlie’s term for guys that come back that just want to fuck.

SWANK: As opposed to joining the Family?

ARI: Right. And then he has to kick them out. And a lot of them weren’t 100% white-and that was Charlie’s Aryan thing.

SWANK: So he thought Susan wasn’t too discriminating.

ARI: Right. He got a little pissed off at her quite a few times. He kicked her out once, and let back in about a month later.

SWANK: Ari, out of all the girls in the Family, who was the best fuck?

ARI: Sexy Sadie Mae Glutz!

SWANK: Didn’t give her the nickname for nothing, then?

ARI: Sandy was so-so. So was Squeaky-that’s why they called her “Squeaky.” I got my nickname from Charlie.

SWANK: What was it?

ARI: “White Rabbit.” They said I fucked like a rabbit.

SWANK: Does Charlie still send instructions to the Family?

ARI: Yeah, through the Aryan Brotherhood. He’ll send the Aryan Brotherhood down to Apple Valley to see the girls, and he’ll tell the girls what he wants, and they’ll do what they can.

SWANK: What’s on the Family’s agenda for the immediate future? Anything we should watch out for?

ARI: Not really. I haven’t heard anything more except the International Court of Retribution, which was a crock. Oh, they threaten to kill a bunch of people. They’ll still free, and it’s possible. That’s why I’m going underground.

SWANK: How do you feel about Charlie now?

ARI: He’s just a little guy that used all the guys ‘cause he’s too old to get girls. He got these guys to get girls for him, bring them up there. I mean, when you really think of what went down, he kinda ripped you off a real lot. You know, it kinda pisses you off that the creep could get away with it. I mean, I liked it when he had all the sex orgies going down.

SWANK: Who else in the Family are you still close to?

ARI: Just Susan. I wrote Leslie Van Houten a letter last night, and I wrote Katie a letter. I’d like to maybe talk to Leslie some time, and go up there and visit her. If I can, I want to go up to Frontera to the California Institute for Women, and see Susan, but that’s about it.

SWANK: Well, you must still feel close to the Family in some ways. After Squeaky tried to kill President Ford, you came when they called you.

ARI: Squeaky was fun, and I was horny at the time, anyhow.

SWANK: Long way to go for a piece of ass.

ARI: It was on them. They paid my fare.

SWANK: Oh, really? How did they get the money?

ARI: Different ways.

SWANK: Ari, now that the Family is fragmented, and it’s leaders are all in prison, what do you think keeps it together? Why are it’s members still happy within it?

ARI: It’s a different thing now. They probably do their credit card scams or whatever ripoffs they’re pulling, and that’s it, you know? They’re just making it, day to day.

SWANK: It doesn’t sound like as much fun as it used to be.

ARI: It ain’t. It’s a different thing now. They’re just kinda waiting it out. Some Aryan Brotherhood people might pass messages from Charlie, and tell them to do something else. And maybe six months from now someone will get busted trying to shoot somebody-you never know. But I have to say this in all honesty, the Family is not dead. That germ, that virus still exists. And they’re getting new people all the time.

SWANK: Still?

ARI: yeah. They recruit. They picked up a bunch of people since the murders. They got more since the assassination attempt, too. So, I mean, that cancer is still growing. Don’t for a minute believe it’s all over!