A guy named "James Dinwiddie" claims he knew Hinman, and told the story in a book he wrote(The Johari Mirror and Other Stories, c.2006) in the chapter titled "How I Met Buddha; The Untold Story of the Manson Family Murders"
He has a different version of motive for the murder of Gary Hinman:
https://bdbuddha.com/2014/01/30/how-i-met-buddha-the-untold-story-of-the-manson-family-murders/#comments
(from January 30, 2014)
Excerp:
"Gary informed me... This (Manson)gang had been extorting things – food, cars, money – from his isolated neighborhood in the name of “peace and love”. These freeloading “flower children” were especially interested in his VW minibus, and had somehow concluded that he “owed” it to them. That’s what the heated discussion was all about. ....
"Gary informed me... This (Manson)gang had been extorting things – food, cars, money – from his isolated neighborhood in the name of “peace and love”. These freeloading “flower children” were especially interested in his VW minibus, and had somehow concluded that he “owed” it to them. That’s what the heated discussion was all about. ....
"Gary waged a campaign
in the neighborhood to end the commune’s constant panhandling, going
through garbage cans, expecting handouts and outright gifts of things
like cars and clothes, and otherwise demanding that the community accept
their “everything belongs to everyone” attitude. According to Gary,
they were quite criminal in their behavior, and he was trying to get people to stop supporting them with extorted guilty gifts. ...
"Gary and his neighbor were discussing the ongoing problem of the commune at the Spahn ranch, and the neighbor let me know that Charlie’s “family” had threatened to burn Gary’s house down and destroy him as part of their apocalyptic fantasy."
Dinwiddie's account is consistent with statements by others:
Author Ed Sanders claims Hinman got an oblique death threat from Charlie just days before he was killed:
The Family, pg243
"About four days before Gary Hinman was murdered, (his friend)Eric ... visited Hinman's house at 964 Old Topanga Canyon Road. When he entered the small hillside house he found Gary Hinman on the phone, arguing with Manson. He says: "When I came into the house they were arguing. ....they were in a heated discussion... I talked to Gary afterwards to verify what Charlie said-- He said, you know, like it's your last chance, Gary. And Gary responded to that: "I'm sorry, Charlie, I'm not going to sell all my things and come and follow you.' Those were his exact words.
"And so Charlie said, in response to that, that he couldn't be responsible then for the karma that Gary was going to incur. He then reiterated that it was his last chance. And Gary said, 'I'll decide.... I'll take care of my own karma.' "
www.cielodrive.com/gary-hinman-homicide-report-08-09-69.php
Hinman employer Glen Krell: "He added that the last evening(July 25, 1969) he saw the victim he(Hinman) appeared nervous and distraught."
The Family, pg243
"About four days before Gary Hinman was murdered, (his friend)Eric ... visited Hinman's house at 964 Old Topanga Canyon Road. When he entered the small hillside house he found Gary Hinman on the phone, arguing with Manson. He says: "When I came into the house they were arguing. ....they were in a heated discussion... I talked to Gary afterwards to verify what Charlie said-- He said, you know, like it's your last chance, Gary. And Gary responded to that: "I'm sorry, Charlie, I'm not going to sell all my things and come and follow you.' Those were his exact words.
"And so Charlie said, in response to that, that he couldn't be responsible then for the karma that Gary was going to incur. He then reiterated that it was his last chance. And Gary said, 'I'll decide.... I'll take care of my own karma.' "
www.cielodrive.com/gary-hinman-homicide-report-08-09-69.php
Hinman employer Glen Krell: "He added that the last evening(July 25, 1969) he saw the victim he(Hinman) appeared nervous and distraught."
-----------------------
This alternative theory of motive also lines up with accounts that show that Charlie had already made up his mind to kill Hinman before there was talk of getting any money:
www.cielodrive.com/updates/coming-january-13th-14th-audio-archives-danny-decarlo-interviewed-by-the-los-angeles-county-sheriffs-department/
Danny DeCarlo:
"And that was the idea. Get everything he owned. ‘Cause they talked about him before, as being a Political Piggy. See, a political fuck up. “Gary’s fucked up in his head, he’s a pig, he’s gotta go. He’s just like society, part of society, so let’s get rid of him. First lets get his money.”
web.archive.org/web/20140209204015/http://truthontatelabianca.com/threads/true-detective-1970.2881/
DeCarlo said that for several days before the death of Hinman he had overheard conversation between Beausoleil and Manson in which they referred to Hinman as a "political pig who should die."
Box 49 Grand Jury Proceeding in the murder of Hinman April '70 pg138
The Family, by Ed Sanders pg243
"On Thursday, July 24, Manson sent Ella Bailey aka Ella Sinder, over to Gary Hinman's house to get the money and then to kill him. Miss Sinder had been a close friend of Hinman. Although she was a long-time Manson follower, she was not willing to snuff anybody for him."
www.cielodrive.com/People-V-Manson-Vol-33.pdf
"Miss Bailey, directing your attention to this occasion when you were at the campsite in Devil's Canyon, in the latter part of July, 1969, during that conversation--during the one in which you suggested Gary Hinman's name as somebody who might come with the Family... ...was there any conversation or any statements made during that conversation at the campsite .. in which someone said.. that Gary Hinman was to be killed?"
(Ella Jo denied it, but clearly the investigators had received info that such a conversation had occurred.)
Child of Satan, Child of God by Atkins, Susan, with Slosser, Bob (1977). Plainfield, NJ: Logos International. pp. 94–120
... Manson directly told Beausoleil, Brunner, and her to go to Hinman's and get the supposed inheritance—$21,000. She(Sadie) said Manson had told her privately, two days earlier, that, if she wanted to "do something important", she could kill Hinman and get his money.
murdersofaugust69.freeforums.net/search/results?captcha_id=captcha_search&what_all=%22Juan+Flynn%22&who_only_made_by=0&display_as=0&search=Search
PAUL WATKINS, My Life With Charles Manson, Chapter Eight
"Bobby ... in the summer of 1969, when he came for the last time, his welcome was worn out. He told Charlie he’d do anything for the Family; that’s when Charlie told him: “Then you know what to do with Gary Hinman.” Hinman had been an acquaintance of Charlie’s, a musician who had apparently owed Charlie money and had refused to pay it back. Two weeks later, Gary Hinman was dead."
Q: Now was there any further discussion between Manson and Beausoleil concerning Gary's politics?
A(DeCarlo): They didn't dig the trip he was on. .... That he was a political pig and his karma was bad. ...
Q: Was there any reference to whether or not he should live or die?
A(DeCarlo): Well, that he should die.
A(DeCarlo): They didn't dig the trip he was on. .... That he was a political pig and his karma was bad. ...
Q: Was there any reference to whether or not he should live or die?
A(DeCarlo): Well, that he should die.
"On Thursday, July 24, Manson sent Ella Bailey aka Ella Sinder, over to Gary Hinman's house to get the money and then to kill him. Miss Sinder had been a close friend of Hinman. Although she was a long-time Manson follower, she was not willing to snuff anybody for him."
www.cielodrive.com/People-V-Manson-Vol-33.pdf
"Miss Bailey, directing your attention to this occasion when you were at the campsite in Devil's Canyon, in the latter part of July, 1969, during that conversation--during the one in which you suggested Gary Hinman's name as somebody who might come with the Family... ...was there any conversation or any statements made during that conversation at the campsite .. in which someone said.. that Gary Hinman was to be killed?"
(Ella Jo denied it, but clearly the investigators had received info that such a conversation had occurred.)
Child of Satan, Child of God by Atkins, Susan, with Slosser, Bob (1977). Plainfield, NJ: Logos International. pp. 94–120
... Manson directly told Beausoleil, Brunner, and her to go to Hinman's and get the supposed inheritance—$21,000. She(Sadie) said Manson had told her privately, two days earlier, that, if she wanted to "do something important", she could kill Hinman and get his money.
murdersofaugust69.freeforums.net/search/results?captcha_id=captcha_search&what_all=%22Juan+Flynn%22&who_only_made_by=0&display_as=0&search=Search
PAUL WATKINS, My Life With Charles Manson, Chapter Eight
"Bobby ... in the summer of 1969, when he came for the last time, his welcome was worn out. He told Charlie he’d do anything for the Family; that’s when Charlie told him: “Then you know what to do with Gary Hinman.” Hinman had been an acquaintance of Charlie’s, a musician who had apparently owed Charlie money and had refused to pay it back. Two weeks later, Gary Hinman was dead."
Box 10, pg65of172
Ronnie Howard on the Hinman murder:
"She(Sadie) said they knew they had already planned to kill him so I forget Bobby held the guy's arms while I stabbed him but this was already prearranged. They already knew what they were going to do before they went in the car."
https://www.mansonblog.com/2015/03/gary-hinman-was-murdered-for-money.html
When Ella Jo Bailey was interviewed by police,
she had this to say:
she had this to say:
"Everyone talked about Hinman. It was all planned. ...:
Box 51A Mary Brunner trial court docs Sept 1971 Grand Jury Proceedings pg514
Q: Were there any other items in the (VW micro)bus with the exception of the money that had to be taken care of?
A(Ella Jo): Yes, there was. There were clothes, there was gloves and there were scarves and things the girls had been wearing. They had been told to take those along so as not to leave fingerprints around.
A(Ella Jo): Yes, there was. There were clothes, there was gloves and there were scarves and things the girls had been wearing. They had been told to take those along so as not to leave fingerprints around.
(Obviously, if Brunner is bringing gloves, that is to avoid leaving
fingerprints. And if they planned to not leave any trace of their
presence there, than that means Hinman would not be left alive to
implicate them.)
This account by Ella Jo Bailey backs up what Dinwiddie was claiming:
www.cielodrive.com/gary-hinman-homicide-report-05-18-70.php
Miss Bailey stated that she met V/Hinman in the last part of 1968 and stayed at his house. She stated that through 1969, Charles Manson would ask Susan Atkins, Mary Brunner and herself to go to the Hinman residence for money.
Miss Bailey stated that she met V/Hinman in the last part of 1968 and stayed at his house. She stated that through 1969, Charles Manson would ask Susan Atkins, Mary Brunner and herself to go to the Hinman residence for money.
Dinwiddie's 'feud/bad blood' theory is much more feasible than any 'bad mescaline' or inheritance theory, both of which describe the murder as an
impromptu, spontaneous event arising at the scene out the killers' frustrations at not getting
the money/property.
--------------
So
the motive was then revenge for the what Hinman was doing.
Assuming the account is accurate, then the questions become:
--wouldn't
the cops have done a door-to-door survey of the neighbors when the
Hinman murder case was fresh, to see if they had seen or heard
something? Yes, they would have.
--and isn't
it likely they would have heard of this feud Gary had with the Family
from the Spahn Ranch, maybe even hearing about a threat to burn down the
murder victim's house? Yes, it is likely.
--and wouldn't Charlie have then immediately been rocketed to the top of the suspect list? Yes, he would have been.
--and
shouldn't the cops have quickly picked up Charlie for questioning?
Well, in any normal investigation they would have. But that of course
never happened. It wasn't bungling. It was SABOTAGE!
