Saturday, January 23, 2016

Governor Brown has again vetoed Bruce's parole

 
 
 
LOS ANGELES (AP) — Gov. Jerry Brown rejected parole for a third time Friday for a follower of cult leader Charles Manson 46 years after a series of bloody murders rocked Southern California.
Bruce Davis was convicted of the 1969 slayings of musician Gary Hinman and stuntman Donald "Shorty" Shea. He was not involved in the more notorious killings of actress Sharon Tate and six others.

Brown said that the 73-year-old Davis remains a danger to public safety, saying in his decision that the "horror of the murders committed by the Manson Family in 1969 and the fear they instilled in the public will never be forgotten."
 
Read the rest of the story at SFGATE.






87 comments:

Curious Joerg (elfakowhamo) said...

justice is no longer served. Brown has too many Hollywood connections.

DebS said...

I agree that justice is no longer served. California is one of only three states in the US where the Governor can veto paroles. Seems like a waste of tax payers money to keep doing this year after year. Bruce has met all the demands of the parole board and they should be the final word, it is their job after all.

Matt said...

If a prisoner has met all of the requirements and the parole board deems he/she no longer a danger to society then the law should be followed. It's not that I care a bit about Davis, it's just that if one prisoner meets the same measure and is paroled but another isn't because of notoriety, then that's politics which has no place in the process.


christopher butche said...

http://www.npr.org/2014/05/26/315259623/in-california-life-with-parole-increasingly-leads-to-freedom

Above is a link to an interesting article with regard to Californian lifers being increasingly paroled in recent years, that also touches upon governor reversal and the inmare still being a danger.

Looks like another opportunity for California tax payers to pay for Barbara Hoyt's expenses to attend the next annual Davis hearing.

Perhaps a compromise for Davis is to allow him to live in a trailer in the prison car park.

St Circumstance said...



Part 1: Devils advocate...

Last few years Salsa outsold Ketchup as the number one selling condiment in the condiment industry. for every Anglo family sprouting up in the US- 4 Spanish families are sprouting up.

Its not unlikely in a few years Spanish citizens will outnumber Anglo ones.

Our Process calls for elections, but if Enrique Englesias gets elected President by sheer numbers- we have an Electoral Congress which can shoot that down because its not in the best interest of the public... Sometimes we put process' in place to make sure that only certain ones among us have the final check and balance for the greater good...

Men who were alot smarter than I came up with this system and we can agree or disagree with the system itself-

But it is our process.... going through the final vote that matters is not something they drew up just for the Manson Family convicts. Certain cases are different from others for Political reasons and our process allows for certain individuals to make those determinations in specific situations.

We get to vote for those individuals- that is our voice in the process.

I went on a little rant the other day saying what I though would have happened to all of them if they weren't in jail there whole life's. If anyone read it- they noticed I left Bruce out...

He is still the hardest one to figure for me. I just get the impression he skated on alot of things, and has more information he is hiding. Who knows what he would have ended up like, and who knows what his real role in any of this was. He did the best job of keeping his activities quiet.

Sneaky is the word that keeps coming to my mind.

St Circumstance said...

part 2 reasonable guy:

But I agree with all of the above. It is cruel and unusual punishment to keep putting him through this year after year based on what we know for sure his involvement was. and now that he has passed the parole board, the Governor should respect the time and deliberation they have spent all these years on the matter...

I can see the case for LULU with the passing of time. Maybe Bruce has earned his freedom as well??

the one thing that still sticks with me though is that I believe LULU had very little involvement/participation or planning in anything beyond one night at the Labiancas- I am not so sure about Bruce...

But my opinions do not warrant keeping a guy locked up forever, and if you want to make the argument that he got parole votes and did his time and based on what he was convicted of he has done more time than others with similar convictions- I guess that is fair...

last point and then I am done playing devils advocate until after the tour so some people will still talk to me on the tour :)

all the notoriety and attention that goes along with keeping these people locked away- was caused by these people themselves. They took full advantage of the attention, and cameras to make sure that everyone knew that they were badasses and Charlie was the man. In front of a shocked nation and grieving families- they acted like mindless, thoughtless evil robots. Even after the terrible crimes they kept laughing, dancing and threatening. Bruce got in front of that camera for the documentary and made no bones about his loyalties and feelings. In an academy award winning Documentary he established himself as a major player in this group for all the world to see. He proudly strutted around in Charlies vest and sounded an awful lot like Charlie to me when he gave his little rap.

So he wanted the affiliation at the time. Now some say the system is unfair to Bruce.

Shorty and Gary are not around for the fairness conversation though are they??

What is fair about that?

Did a group of people get to vote on them living or dying?

The day when any of them takes full responsibility for what they did is the day one of them stands up and says " I did this and I am going to pay for what I did" Accept responsibility for your actions and do your time.

and after all these years- I still think some people assume that life with possibility of parole means you are guaranteed parole after some period of time. LULU used to brag abut the matrix and how long she would serve.

That just isn't the way it works and if you dont want to get caught up in the nightmare that is the California/US prison system here is one tip for you...

dont hurt other people, and stop breaking the F_ _ K _ _ ) law !!!!!!!!

If you kill others and brag or act proud of it in front of their families- Personally- you are the last person on Earth who should be talking about fairness...

:)

St Circumstance said...

Electoral College - sorry

Robert Hendrickson said...

It's not that Bruce Davis is or is not STILL a danger to "society" the (status quo).
He, like so many others provide the "establishment" with a distraction from its worthless existence on this earth. Jerry B. is diverting attention away from HIS "sister" who is on the Board of the gas company who has allowed the dangerous gas leak over Porter Ranch and the San Fernando Valley - just like the worthless road-fucks that have been feeding "Lead" to BLACK women and children of Flint Michigan.

You'all THINK Sandra Good was a BAD little girl for threatening these mother fuckers for dumping poison down the throats of Blacks, Browns and Crackers, NOT unlike the Nazi's of long ago.

BUT I live NOT far from Porter Ranch you mother-fuckers and that's NOT a good thing - for you - cause MY words and images reach into the far corners of the entire world.

St Circumstance said...

final thoughts on subject and then others can pummel away at me...

dont underestimate the notoriety factor in keeping them locked up. It stands the passage of time.

Many wonder why this particular case holds interest for so many for so long. Movies and books still coming out all the time. TV specials. It never goes away.

I suggest it was, more than any of the other factors, the behavior of the accused. We may never see such a scary group of people again in our lives. Mindless, Evil, Zombie robots we were told. And then they came into the public eye and delivered plus some in person. The American public will never witness a trial like that ever again. The actions of those kids shaving their heads and carving x's- bringing knives into the court, holding hands and singing... beyond bizarre behavior in light of what the trial was about.

Atkins wrote in her last version of the truth a chapter where she compares her involvement with Linda's. Very good job as well. If you are willing to believe that Susan did not stab Sharon- then her and Linda had fairly similiar involvement she argued quite convincingly. Personally-I think she had alot of physical involvement at Tate- but she did ok showing that the rest of those two nights they were pretty close in their actions.

Then she asks why Linda is called an Angel while she is compared to the devil..

right up to the end she never got it.

How about because people remember what they see when a tragedy occurs? more importantly they need to understand what happened and why?

Linda gave them what they needed- remorse, sympathy for victims, regret. Things people can wrap their minds around and understand so they dont have to be frightened. she looked like a scared kid who was sorry and understood it was wrong.

regardless if that was how she really felt or not lol Forget helping Bugs for one minute, she gave the public what it needed.

Sadie carved the X- shaved her head, danced and sang... we cannot understand how someone could do that. confusion and fear start growing together.

think that had anything to do with the different way the public looked at the two of them, or was it all Bugs book? ( in reality probably a combination. Bugs exaggerated this difference for his own benefit- but the book came later anyway. Linda was seen and heard first by a public desperate to understand.)

I have said so many time that this group of people went really far out of their way to make Bugs story look legitimate. Bugs told the greatest selling real crime story of all time. Bugs could have made his name with HS- but he couldn't have made it into what it became without the help of a dozen family members :)

So yeah- people probably will never forget the Manson name or the Family association. Bobby and to a smaller Extent Bruce( no involvement in TLB) are stuck with a stigma by that association. We can and will debate how fair that is, or how deserved..

But is simple enough to see why this happens and for me to understand it- if not agree with it.

orwhut said...

Everybody wants to help, man. I want to help, you want to help, the camera man wants to help. Jerry Brown wants to help-------- everybody but Bruce. It looks like Jerry would get with the program.

Robert Hendrickson said...

OMG: ST talks about the GIRLS acting and making stupid faces in the courtroom and hallways, BUT aren't THEY really just "mocking" the 'establishment' - kind'a like Ann's recent POST is "mocking" the Manson Family. In 50 years I, like ST, never really understood the GIRLS were just supposed to be FUNNY.

AND now the more I SEE it, I hear THEM saying: "We're only reflecting YOU back at yourselves."

ANYONE recognize HIM ?

Matt said...

Anton?

Farflung said...

The Family are to justice, what the platypus is to mammals. A one off freak conceived via isolation.

We are a country of laws and not men... Or so some say. But it only took one woman to dismantle the Death Penalty, AND ignore the jury's vote. When this occured a little over 100 convicts on Death Row were commuted to life WITH parole, simply because LWOP had not been in existance.

People who committed similar crimes are serving LWOP, and therefore will not be in the news for hearings they will never attend.

Since the Death Penalty was reinstated 13 executions have occured in California. In that same timeframe 8 guards have been murdered by convicts.

I see "fair" as equally relative and ephemeral.

Cindy Lee said...

Interesting that anyone thinks Davis has met his "parole requirements". Under California law, when a murderer is sent to prison it's not about rehabilitation, they are sent there for punishment only.

Davis was sentenced to death with a fluke commuting that sentence to an indeterminate life sentence, which at that time was 7yrs-life. Then you have a parole board which is allowed to make a recommendation on suitability. Under CA law, the governor has the final say--as he should because he's an elected official speaking for the people. Of course Davis is going to site legalese for his reasoning, but at the end of the day he's speaking for the people of CA when he wrote:" ...Horror of the murders committed by the Manson Family in 1969 and the fear they instilled in the public will never be forgotten.”

And, as Doris Tate said (paraphrased) Davis deserves to walk outta prison when his victims get to walk out of their graves. A life for a life. End of story.

Robert Hendrickson said...

MATT, Ann is going to make YOU wear the "Dunce" hat.

I meant the guy looking UP at the bald man.

BUT Now look at the photo of Clem and Bruce YOU posted.

THEY are "hand" fucking as THEY walk down the isle TOGETHER !

Don't ANYONE get it? Mr. Brown is a homophobie. And HE can't
stand the idea of Bruce and CLEM getting back together.

It's kind'a like the Republicans can't stand the idea of Wild Bill
doing all the little girls in the "squeaky" clean WHITE house AGAIN.

It's called "annal vision." AND the GIRLS are still laughing at all
the insanity that infects us all.

Matt said...

Is it you?

Robert Hendrickson said...

You know Matt, it could be me, EXCEPT I don't remember ever sitting in the front row.
I actually hoped someone could recognize HIM, cause the bald man was Dr. Hondorus, Sharon Tate's personal confidant.

I just finished watching the Discovery Channel "Most Evil" program on Charles Manson with Catherine Share as the primary interviewee. AND I now understand WHY, if I ever do another film on the Manson Family, it must portray Manson as the EVIL master manipulator. Otherwise, it won't SELL to the new and improved America.

Besides WE absolutely NEED a really BAD guy like Manson, in order to overlook people like JFK, LBJ & George Bush, who literally accomplished the EVIL deed like Manson was only able to THINK about.

So what do I do, make money or just go on about my business. What a shame - I really do question just what the Hell I should do with ALL the film and TRUTH I have possession of?

christopher butche said...

Mr Hendrickson it would be a shame for your work to be part of the overall distraction from the objective truth but, there is a saying about if you have to decide whether to go with the truth or legend you must go with the legend.

I suggest you make a money spinning documentary portraying the accepted view of the murders and murderers, but speak the truth on the DVD's commentary track.

The casual viewer will be rewarded with the expected but the seekers will find the truth hidden in plain view.

justice_4_all2010 said...

Cindy Lee said:"And, as Doris Tate said (paraphrased) Davis deserves to walk outta prison when his victims get to walk out of their graves. A life for a life. End of story."

I agree...I'm new here and been lurking around for a few months, ever since my visit to LA to visit my boy and we decided to visit Spahn Ranch. Read Helter Skelter back in "75" but paid little attention to this case until just recently.
Though I do have an avid interest in true crime books and have also read ALL of FBI profiler John Douglas books that I think are very good. I need to ask, have any of you people read such books? They are good, they are accurate, but it is not a 100% science. I will say that "TEX" Watkins acted after the crime EXACTLY as Mr. Douglas said he would, though his books would not come out until many years later.

I'm also trained in video productions and have videos on youtube regarding the "Shanda Sharer" murder case....I traveled to Indiana with camera in hand to track down the murdering sluts who kidnapped, tortured for 10hrs, than burned alive 12 year old Shanda Sharer... The Dr. Phil Show about this case was because of me...more later.

So...look up my videos, "The Kidnapping, Torture, and Murder of Shanda Sharer" And Ladies...I'm the handsome guy on camera...LOL!
I expect i will receive comments from the males in the forum as jealously is a real motivator and the cause of many murders, like Shandas.

What I found out about the Sharer case is that religion plays an important role with the release of most all murders...BULLSHIT!!!!!

As Christopher Hitchens once said...religion corrupts everything!
And born again Davis can go to hell as he would continue to harm others in other ways if released.

justice_4_all2010 said...

I also read the Moorehouse is living in the Midwest, where I'm from...get me her address and I'll track her down with my camera

Fiddy 8 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fiddy 8 said...

"What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of fuckin' assholes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be! You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So... what that make you... good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say good night to the bad guy! Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you. Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy comin' through! Better get outta his way!" ~ Tony Montana from Scarface

justice_4_all2010 said...

Fiddy 8...and what does a Hollywood fable like Montana have to do with reality? Are you saying these Manson people are not "BAD"...They were criminals long before they murdered. As Douglas says it is an evolving process and yes, people with compassion leave such situations as to why Charlie was only down to a few dozen followers once the killing began. The ones who lack compassion followed, and some killed, but all continued to rob, steal, and burglarized.

They are sociopaths and the reason we have penitentiaries...and has nothing to do with the 60's as there many who protested but did not kill innocent people for no reason besides the thrill to KILL!!!

justice_4_all2010 said...

funny thing about this case is that all perps now claim to have found Jesus and they should be forgiven...I can't get over the hypocrisy of this statement since all have said they thought Charley was Jesus and why they killed...friggen unbelievable!

justice_4_all2010 said...

Also...as Douglas says, ALL first time killers work within their comfort zone, areas where they know the layout of the land as in this case, the Polanski residence was chosen for this reason as well as the LeBlonc's... they knew the places they hit. BUT...they were evolving that night, willing to kill complete strangers to satisfy their blood lust. And it got worse as to how Charlie acted once in the desert and confronted by Crockett. Charlie went off the rails as predicted, even turnning on his own family...he is a sick fu*k, and always has been...it is what he is, the 'ID" in his brain.

You psychology people will know what I mean by the word "ID"

justice_4_all2010 said...

Another thing...Tex Watson is a chicken shit bully, has no problem knifing innocent people he surprised in the middle of the night, but when confronted by real men, he runs away. Like when Charlie told him to hide in the porch attic in the desert and kill the cops who came there...Tex knew he would be facing real men who were not scared of him and would fight back with deadly force...so what does TEX do when this reality is upon him...he runs away as fast as he can,shitting his pants all the way..."Fu*k Charlie"

justice_4_all2010 said...

BTW...I'm the guy who posted on Celio Drive dot com about my confrontation with the church nut-jobs who patrol Spahn Ranch... I have pic's, who wants them?

justice_4_all2010 said...

As For Stoner Von Lulu...tell him I think his videos are great, my boy and i used them to find our way around Spahn. I'll hook him up with my boy if he ever needs some muscle. he is a LA resident, martial artiest, cage fighter, and professional trainer, and a bit more easy going than i...he stopped me from fighting the church fu*ks at Spahn.
Actually I thought they were Manson followers who still worship the place...who I'd love to fight, male or female. as my videos prove, females are just as dangerous as males...just more sneaky about it.

Fiddy 8 said...

Justice, Hollywood fable as history for media consumers would be my point, yes.

Isn't that what all these incredible bloggers are working so hard to explain?

justice_4_all2010 said...

As for Davis...if he had executed like he should of been, we would NOT have to put up with this stuff....I'm a firm believer of the death penality for some, especially these people.
So I will leave you people tonight with a quote from the late great Christopher Hitchens...that directly relates to Davis.

quote:
"There seems to be no easy way to discuss this other than in personal or individual terms. You and I have no idea what it is like to be a sociopath-someone that does not care about other people except inasmuch or they serve his turn-or a psychopath-someone who deserves actual delight from inflicting misery on others. But we know that such people exist, and that they must be guarded against. I regard their existence as part of our haphazard evolution and our kinship with a nature that often favors the predator. You do not. Indeed, you apparently adopt the immoral and suicidal doctrine that advocates forgiveness for those who would destroy us. Please take care not to forgive my enemies, or the enemies of society. If I have to call such people “Evil” (and I find I have no other alternative), I do not deduce peaceful coexistence from that observation and do not want you being tender to them when it is my family’s life that is at stake."

justice_4_all2010 said...

"Hollywood fable as history for media consumers would be my point, yes."

WTF does that mean? especially in regards to your comment??? This is not a friggen movie, shit like this really happens, and unless something like this happens to you and your family...you have no clue

Fiddy 8 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fiddy 8 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fiddy 8 said...

This is not a movie, this is a comment section on a blog.

Fiddy 8 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fiddy 8 said...

Justice, I do have a clue, and if my comments seem so hard to follow, just wait until you start reading RH's comments!

justice_4_all2010 said...

ok...who is RH

Robert Hendrickson said...

CHRIS, I think you are on to something. What IF it was two separate movies and the viewer gets to decide which is the TRUTH ? AND if you need help in deciding, I can SELL "decoder" rings.

In all seriousness, I think I could even use MANSON 1973 as the basis film and make a complete commentary, just like you mentioned, to go along with it.

As a minimum, YOU got me thinking on the right track.

justice_4_all2010 said...

listen...you people (Fiddy 8) do not understand the difference between normal hard working people and the cons who wreck our society...tell U a story. I grew up with 4 sisters and as they came of age, constantly had problems with peeping toms. Called the police and nothing was done besides they were bailed out and one literally laughed at us...me and my diciest father.
well...one night I heard the chain-links jingle though my open window and realized they stopped at my yard...went out into the night alone, caught an beat the ever living shit out of the perp...than called the police. WHY? because I knew by this time that what these perverts are really afraid of is a guy like me who will go out into the night and chase them... and beat them. They do not fear the police, they bond out and get a lawyer, then laugh at our justice system.
I literally saved my baby sister from rape, a conviction that the perp I caught eventually went to prison for, (Well documented through the Northlake police dept) This is what brought me to John Douglas, as he says. peeping tom is not a teenage thing...it is the beginning of a serial rapist. Pal Bernardo is a perfect example of this...it does not stop, they get better.

You do not understand...I am what i am, been interested in Art, construction, and vide since i was a small child, and i have pursued this avenue since childhood...they do the same thing...it is what they are!
and U R the same, the writers have written since childhood...ect.

And Charlie, who dispute his lies had a good childhood, but chose to be a criminal instead of finding a job...even his cousin say this.

You cannot change these people...kill them before they kill U!!!

justice_4_all2010 said...

ok, RH = henderson who just happened to be on the scene when the murders were happening...that guy! fu*k him!
Did he ask good questions, did his instinct tell him something was wrong? He did not pursue murderers as I have, just was there at the time.
Timing was all it was...I've seen some of your videos, quality is very good...but U lack something, like the running back I was in the simi- pro Chicago league, instinct is of more value...U lack this.

justice_4_all2010 said...

When I say instinct...think of it this way...you people would have heard the fence jingle in the night and went to sleep...I knew i had sisters...of age, so i listened...when the fence stopped at my yard...which I knew....I went out into the night alone...to fight.
Not interested in the police... I'm for justice, and i know criminals fear people like me. Now, I have good judgement, the year before I cought a garage thief, did not beat him but apprehended him...a difference. Though i never admitteded it to police, I knew with the peeper i was dealing with a different type of personality, and delt with it accordingly.

Also, a girl I was dating years after the peep event ran into the perp at a party after he was released from prison...next post

justice_4_all2010 said...

So let me add this...Tex was really afraid Of sebring, he expressed concern for Sharon, to the point that the gun did not matter....a real man
An unspoken hero to all you people, as to why tex shot him first...he was a problem to tex

Fiddy 8 said...

You guys knew this blog would bring them out of the woodwork, didn't you?

justice_4_all2010 said...

as for the rapist, he was at a party in which the girl I was dating attended, and was making a joke about his recent prison term( he told them it was for robbery, not rape) well built and had muscles since he was tired of being raped in prison. But when my girl said "didn't my boyfriend catch you peeping into windows at his sisters...he'll be here soon..." He ran from the party.
Why, muscles have nothing to do with it...it was very personal and up close when I broke his arm that night under my complete control of this rapist...I made it that way..."I'm going to break you arm now, so you remember this" ...is what i said, and I did. He cried like a baby. But, my sisters would have cried in pain as he raped them and he would have enjoyed this...it is what he is.

Kill them...kill Davis. it is what they are, nothing will change them

justice_4_all2010 said...

Fiddy 8...am I one of them...LOL. Thanks! R U a Manson follower? like to know, I'll send you pic's and my address if you think U R up to it....?? LOL, lets dance!

justice_4_all2010 said...

Fiddy 8...I have real sisters that I had to protect, and have. U think it is a joke...I'll meet you anywhere. Killing pregnant women is nothing to you, just something to post about...
Set it up...I have a good job an be out to LA next week...I'm not a guy who cares about opinion, I hate murders and rapist, cuz I have sisters. I'll punch you in the face so hard you will never recover...after I shake your hand...sissy

justice_4_all2010 said...

btw...I know Fiddy8 is just trying to get a response from me....thanks, it was fun...but I really need to get to bed

Fiddy 8 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Matt said...

Bweeep Bweeep... Tough Guy Alert ... Bweeep Bweeep

christopher butche said...

Excuse me, i'm just going to slip in a small post for Mr Hendrickson.

I was warming to the idea of you presenting a two disc affair, possibly the same footage but coming from opposing viewpoints. But it's gotta be cheaper to just have a single disc with one or more commentary tracks.

Another consideration is have a look at how Bob Dylan presents each of his archive releases. That is in 1CD, 2CD, 3CD, up to 10CD editions. Each more limited in release (and more expensive) as the number of discs increases.

That gives you the opportunity to flood the market with the one DVD edition, reduce your manufacturing costs for the double/triple edition, and only make say 500 of the 10 DVD edition to enable St Circumstance and Matt to watch five hours of unedited footage of Manson watching paint dry.

orwhut said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
orwhut said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
orwhut said...

Robert, I'd like to see your original movie with your commentary. You could verbally update it there and deny or confirm rumors about inaccuracies, For example where a caption comes up saying it's the voice of Charles Manson, there's a rumor that it was an impersonation. I'd like to hear your responce to that. Captions telling who's singing in both films would be nice too. Something like this should be fairly easy and inexpensive.

St Circumstance said...

I'll watch as much as is made available :) love it!!!

St Circumstance said...

If you do the opposing viewpoints- Can I be the spokesperson for "Other" side?

Maybe we can recreate the opening scene with Sandy, Lynn, and Nancy - but with me in the middle :)

We would absolutely get opposing points of view lol

I don't know how to use a rifle though- Do you think they would teach me or shoot me??



Maybe I should leave the movie making to the professionals just in case :)

Robert Hendrickson said...

EASY "Justice for ALL": I was NOT at the August 1969 "murder" scene. YOU got me mixed up with that JC guy. BUT I was helping to cover-up that messy My Li Vietnam Massacre scene. Cause that's what OUR LBJ God wanted - so HE could continue HIS socio-path down the yellow-brick road.

AND hey, YOU wann'a KILL rapists, START with Roman Polanski. That will get YOUR name in the paper, so ALL rapists will think twice before THEY rape ANYONE in YOUR Family EVER again.

Hopefully someday YOU will realize - it's the adversarial "SYSTEM" that's YOUR enemy, NOT animals that learned how to rise up and walk on two feet.

There are two kinds of people here - those who want the Manson Family DEAD and those who seek to LEARN something NEW. So which are YOU?

christopher butche said...

Polanski got a raw deal in my opinon, but I realise I would be more popular if I said Manson instead of Polanski.

Any chance Mr Hendrickson you are basing your advocating the murder of Polanski based on the bad press coverage and an accepted viewpoint of half-informed general consensous, not to mention a judge with his judging skewed by publicity and celebrity?

St Circumstance said...

Christopher- Polanski drugged gave alchohol and raped an underage girl and fled. He sent his pregnant wife alone across the Atlantic to stay with people he admitted he didn't completely trust. he made jokes when being interviewed about Sharon and he made jokes about the rape later in interviews.

Hard to say he got a raw deal since he never really paid for any of it in my opinion bud

St Circumstance said...

Although for the record I don't advocate the murder of anyone lol

Especially me :)

christopher butche said...

St, to be fair he sent her alone on a luxury suite on a cruise ship and they maintained daily contact by phone.

Also he was working on that talking dolphin film script. There's all sorts of ifs and buts. Tate for instance could have loosened up on having the birth in the USA and remained in London.

The later stuff is a bit beyond my scope, but as he said the age of consent varied and in France it was 15, besides she was only a week or so shy of her 14 birthday. I'll give you that one I can't quite see Polanski's logic there either.

Rape is a bit strong as that charge was thrown out when he accepted a plea bargain for unlawful sex with a minor.

St Circumstance said...

He was at Jack Nicholsons house not in France. He gave her drinks pills and forced himself in her. Then when he thought he might get a worse sentence than he agreed to he split. Made jokes about it later

He never disputed what he did. Just what he agreed to pay for it. Then he decided what was fair himself and paid nothing.

We still give him Academy awards.

As for how he treated Sharon - I guess we all have our own standards of how we respect our wives. If mine were that far along in pregnancy I wouldn't send her to stay with people I didn't trust on Airforce One

Sorry I have respect for you but trouble with Roman lol

St Circumstance said...

What Roman and Charlie did to teenagers isn't all that different when you think about it.

Older guys using status, drugs and even Force to get sex from girls half their age.

It would be ok with me if they sat right next to each other in the clink to talk about their conquests.

But I have to go watch football now as it may be Peyton Mannings final game.

So I leave it to the rest of you to sort this out for now. But as far as I am concerned Roman is just as evil as Charlie and just short of Tex and Pat and the other actual murderers as the worst of bastards associated with this case.

Saint Says : Denver pulls of the upset and Panthers get by the Cards.

There is your St. Circumstance weekend parlay.

Although as usual I decided with my heart ;)

Robert Hendrickson said...

CHRIS: You make a good point, BUT I was only trying to illustrate WHY "Justice for all" is so frustrated. IF it was ME I would NOT KILL him, but "torture" him instead. SOOOO badly that ANY and ALL rapists / criminals would be warning each other FOREVER to "Stay away from that crazy EVIL Hendrickson and ANYONE he even KNOWS.

The whole issued here is: do YOU want someone else, like a judge / jury, to do YOUR work for you OR do you stand-up and be a man that ACTS, instead of crying to a bunch of bloggers who have their own problems to deal with.

BTW, Polanski's ATTORNEY fucked HIM, not the Judge. It was part of the oldest legal scam in the book to get MORE $$$$ from a client. ALL Polanksi had to do was file an incompetency corruption lawsuit against HIS lawyer, and hopefully the TRUTH would have come out with even the Judge smiling.

christopher butche said...

Mr Hendrickson, yes justice for all, like democracy, is a flawed system, and frustrating, but then so are lynch mobs and vigilantes.

I read those books on the Zebra killings, is that the kind of being a man of action and not relying on judge and jury to sort out problems kind of strategy your are recommending?

If it's a free for all then all opinions and strategies for dealing with perceived problems and injustices are valid.

Like Bob Dylan's grandmother said: Always treat people good because everybody has a hard life.


joseph esposito said...

Justice_ 4_all2010, you are A COMPLETE... many adjectives come to mind. Anyone who's diatribe go's on some 20 posts... I'm the handsome one... my son's a cage fighter... I broke a rapist's arm... just your stupid user name... Justice... you have a masculinity problem JERK? Charles Manson's grandson is also a cage fighter, and has more character than you or your offspring. It is my recommendation the Manson blog GET RID OF THIS TROLL! Christopher, GOOD POINT! St. is naïve about wo=MEN! Samantha Geimer has revealed that she still emails Polanski and feels he deserves to come back to the states! She FORGIVES Polanski but NOT judge Rittenband! She says the judge was corrupt, and sent Polanski to state prison for a diagnostic study, She said: "It was basically a way to put Polanski in prison with no way to appeal it" She said: Polanski was locked up TWICE, has paid her $500,000 settlement, and had written a letter of apology. She says the judge played a cat & mouse game with Polanski & told him I'm going to sentence you to an indeterminate amount of time, "so go BACK to jail, and "I'll let you out in a few weeks" Then reneged on the deal. People forget the MOTHER set up the encounters & was trying to get her into Hollywood! For GOD sakes the MAN has already been punished, leave him alone! Stop with the self righteousness Saint, you are naïve about fe=MALES, they are NOT total victims just because the law says so!

St Circumstance said...

He raped a 13 year old girl.

Never denied it. In fact apologized to her.

That's enough for me. I don't care who allowed it or said it was ok

He did it.

Call me whatever you must but that's not ok.

St Circumstance said...

A 24 year old rock star having sex with a willing 17 year old groupie is one thing I concede.

A younger teacher having consensual sex with a 16 or 17 year old student is a case of nobody was forcefully violated but is still wrong.

A grown Man giving ludes and alcohol and to a 13 girl and then forcing himself on her is animalistic...

Does it really matter what anyone else said about it?

-Romans work in film is very impressive
-Samantha forgave him later
-The mother was a fame whore who may have set her own daughter up
-The judge was going to change his sentence
- He went through so much as a kid...

So he is allowed to rape a 13 year old kid?

People who make excuses for Roman are very confusing to me.

Charlie had a really rough childhood and went through some very hard times. It is not an excuse for him to steal from and hurt others. As well, he had made it through that childhood and had pretty much the life he wanted when he got selfish and dangerous. He was not suffering when he decided to start hurting other people. Only when it comes time to pay do we talk so much about the past and its influence. He smiled and made jokes about his carnage- when he is not denying it. "You people have been doing this to me for years" That was the attitude he gave us.

Roman times 10. After his troubled youth- He had money and wealth and fame. he could have had plenty of women, and was long past any suffering. Still, he used any excuse to put his own perversions and needs in front of any other person or law. "Hey after his upbringing- we need to understand its part of his history and art" That is the line people give to defend him...

Sounds similar to me and I dont buy it in either case.


But if these are your hero's and role models- I am not going to tell anyone else who to cheer for.

I will stick to Peyton Manning...

And you can owe me one for the two winners I gave you yesterday

:)

St Circumstance said...

P.S.- I will give you this though...

apparently I am naive when it comes to women lol

:)

candy and nuts said...

Joe esp using charlies wo=men fe=males sounds like robin graves meh

joseph esposito said...

Saint, I never said what Polanski did is 'ok' just that he's been punished already. You are very intelligent & articulate I'll give you that, agreed it was wrong BUT, the level of retribution most people want is what I think is wrong, other wise you're a smart dude no offense! Peace!

St Circumstance said...

he did 50 something days...

I just dont think he should have decided for himself what was fair punishment lol


But thanks... I am working on figuring the woman thing out :)

Robert Hendrickson said...

Seems to me that we are ALL "trolls" on here -- some just stay longer than others. AND some re-visit more often than others. I even think some tend to replicate certain members of the Manson Family and some the "victims" Family's. BUT nobody seems to want to BE one of the "victims."

For ME - it's ALL good - IF you don't "pirate" MY films. CAUSE once you begin a "petty" Crime Spree you could end up joining the Democrat Gang - where what EVERYONE else worked for also belongs to you for the taking.

Jody Welch said...

Wow. Some really go off on a tangent on this blog. The reason I think Bruce should rot in jail is because I feel there are many other murders he could be connected with or has info about. He will never confess though. Cause then he'd be in more trouble. As far as Roman, having sex with a minor is a crime. He should have known better and he should have been punished. I also agree he was a lousy husband.

Robert Hendrickson said...

GRIM & JOE: The primary problem with "piracy" of intellectual PROPERTY is: (1)
It is easily STOLEN - because to most folks it is an invisible THING that unaware people have NO conception of.

THEY can SEE a loaf of bread OR a car and STEAL it, but it takes a "mature" mind to even understand that "stealing" something that has NO shape, form or image is a BAD thing to do.

NOTICE: I use the word "unaware" instead of "educated", because with the advent of the internet American colleges didn't even understand that THEY were actually promoting the "piracy" of music. AND this leads to number (2) What took hundreds of years to develop (respect for intellectual property) has been all but removed from the public consciousness.

IE: In the 1960s LBJ and our parents taught us that Black lives do NOT matter OR Brown ones, OR poor White ones. AND consequently Charlie Manson (as a manufactured icon) taught us that ALL lives do NOT matter. That WE are all equal under the KNIFE. That if you find the sight of women and children being massacred in Vietnam ENTERTAINING, here is a taste of American blood for an "after dinner" toast. Pairs very well with steak and lobster !

AND when "Celebrity blood" doesn't even do it for YOU anymore, maybe it's time get the FUCK out of Vietnam.

SO try to understand, WAR is ALL about "intellectual property" with the ONLY significant issue being raised is: WHOS "property" is it?

St Circumstance said...

Nice Jody- you did that so much quicker than I could lol :)

Ya know its been awhile since I paid any attention to the parole stuff, because I dont think any more of them are going to get out- and the hearings aren't as often.

But I just went over to Cielo Drive website to make sure i have read all the most recent ones and I noticed that... ( unless I have already had too many)

In their last respective hearings Tex and LULU both got the same 5 year denial???

Even I have to ask- whats up with that?

St Circumstance said...

I remember distinctly

- although I have to go back and find which exact parole hearing it was, and it was not as recent as you would think-

A commissioner giving Leslie a one year denial and praise, more or less telling her she was getting really close and to keep doing what she has been doing for just a little longer

Then Doris gets laws passed mostly to keep Tex from having kids and having to go to his hearings every so often....

And somehow today they are getting the same denials???

No sense makes sense.

But as Bruce has shown us again- it may not matter anyway...

St Circumstance said...

It was 1998. LULU was getting 1 year denials, and told she was oh so close- 18 years ago, and today she is getting the same length of denials as Tex???

-The entrance of Nelson into things was that important in the big picture it seems, because what else can explain this?

Jenn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
christopher butche said...

Saving money might be another. That link I put up mentions that fear of a 15 year denial is causing more than a few inmates to cancel their hearings.

There was a time when the denials were 1, 2 and three years. As soon as the rules changed to (I think) 1, 3, 5, 7, 10 and 15 years the family denials leapt up in years. Manson unsuprisingly got 15 years, krenwikle went up from her usual 2,3 to 7 years. Beausoleil who had been for decades (like Davis) mostly 1, 2 years jumped to 5.

As St points out van Houten was the surprise, bearing in mind, decades ago (1980) she had 2 out of 3 parole board members voting in her favour, and that quote from the chairman about getting ready to go home in not too long (1985). Then it was a 5 year denial and everyone one on the board has her pegged a racist terrorist.

Tex has a history of turning his down. Krenwinkle has also done it a few times but it didnt win her any friends. Manson has too but I doubt the board felt he was doing it to let them know he wasnt ready to be paroled.

I cant see Tex getting less than a 5 year denial, particularly as Krenwinkle got 8. He tends to get told off for not attending AA or NA which he gets round by saying he attends Christian sessions.

Back on message: cost. Kay said in 1989 he had attended 42 hearings. Davis has had about 33, Beausoleil, van Houten about 20, Atkins, Krenwinkle and Tex about 15, Manson 12, Groagan around 5 or so. So roughly 135 hearings with one inmate paroled.

grimtraveller said...

Jody Welch said...

The reason I think Bruce should rot in jail is because I feel there are many other murders he could be connected with or has info about

That's kind of worrying, Jody. You feel, not know or have it established beyond doubt, that Bruce could be, not is, without doubt, connected with other murders and for that reason he should rot in jail. Not even for murders he was part of, for murders that he could be part of.

Robert Hendrickson said...

The primary problem with "piracy" of intellectual PROPERTY is: (1)
It is easily STOLEN - because to most folks it is an invisible THING that unaware people have NO conception of


I agree with you. I wasn't defending it.

christopher butche said...

Polanski got a raw deal

Graphic alert !
I don't think he got a raw deal at all. I put myself in the position of someone with a 13 year old child {one of mine has just passed 13, the other will be there in 2 years}, no matter how advanced or mature seeming and ask myself how I'd respond to the news that they had been drugged, had an experienced adult's phallus inserted into their anus and had that guy ejaculate therewith and flee the country never to return when faced with the consequences of this. What two adults do for pleasure isn't my business. When a child is involved in that my ears prick up {no pun intended}. That she's been forgiving and that her Mum was consenting are actually side issues. Interesting ones worthy of discussion, but side issues nonetheless.
I could be more graphic but suffice it to say, escaping justice and a raw deal don't belong in the same sentence.

joseph esposito said...

Grim, thanks again for being even handed and oh so eloquent in your delivery!

christopher butche said...

Grim, you're obsessing over the crime and not the following legal happenstance and how it was carried out in an unprofessional way.

There's no need to get all Bill Nelson about it, trying your hardest not to go into graphic detail about kids having sex whilst going into graphic detail about it.

I was commenting on the justice side of things, not the crime.

candy and nuts said...

Amen to that graphic comment i think we can all deduce what happened without the graphic alert things uff

grimtraveller said...

christopher butche said...

you're obsessing over the crime and not the following legal happenstance and how it was carried out in an unprofessional way.
I was commenting on the justice side of things, not the crime


I understand that. I wasn't having a go at you. I was using your comment to take an overview. I don't feel the justice originally meted out was in sync with the crime committed.

There's no need to get all Bill Nelson about it

I can't hear that name without thinking of guitars and Bebop Deluxe !

trying your hardest not to go into graphic detail about kids having sex whilst going into graphic detail about it

Actually, it was the opposite. I wasn't trying not to go into graphic detail, hence the graphic alert.
I don't like those kind of graphic details but it serves the purpose of keeping some of these things real, rather than offhand.

christopher butche said...

Grim, I didnt assume you were having a go, and dont ever consider I am about you.

I'm reading Polanski's autobiography at present, watching the clive james interview and the Wanted amd Desired documentary, and sort of enjoying his company, and am cutting him some slack.

Bebop Deluxe! Good call.

grimtraveller said...

christopher butche said...

I didnt assume you were having a go, and dont ever consider I am about you

I didn't feel you were. Actually, you're one of the people whose posts I generally look forward to reading. Stuff you've written here and on other sites have been a rich fund of thought provoking info.

I'm reading Polanski's autobiography at present....and am cutting him some slack

I can identify with that. I do the same thing with Tex and Susan.
The reality of life is that we {or some of us} do things at various points that maybe should net us a ton of bricks landing on us but we're still people. Few things are totally black and white.

watching the clive james interview

Do you remember a series he did in the early 90s called "Fame in the 20th Century" ? I remember watching it around '92 and in the section on the 60s, I remember him saying that Charles Manson auditioned for "The Monkees" and not got through it. At the time I sat up and thought "that can't be right" and I remember telling it to a sort of friend who really dug Clive James and expressed surprise that he would get something like that wrong.
It was actually a good series {I was disappointed with the 80s section} and I've always kind of liked Clive. Not many were aware that he made records in the 70s.

Roger Adams said...

I'm sorry but I think Bruce Davis should be let out and I think the governor is just abusing his power. He meets the damn criteria let him out. All about politics.