Saturday, January 19, 2013

Manson Trial Jurors

Patty has been perusing a copy of "Trial by your Peers," by Manson juror William Zamora (pictured at left)  that Grump sent her some time ago.  The book details the goings on of the trial from Zamora's perspective which at times is truly comical. There are a lot of interesting tidbits in the book, which Patty will recount in other posts. One thing she found interesting was the list of jurors on the trial, and what Zamora thought of each of them. Zamora uses pseudonyms for each juror, presumably to keep from being sued (?):

"Frank Welch" (described as "self educated," true name Alva Dawson, retired deputy sherriff, pictured above right)

"Mr. White" ("alienated:" true name John Baer, electrical technician, pictured at left)
"Genaro Swanson" ("popular," true name Anlee Sisto, pictured at right)
"Olivia Madison" ("a drunk:" true name Evelyn Hines, dictaphone operator)
"Betty Clark" ("solitary")
"Mr. Scalise" (dissatisfied: true name Walter Vietzelio, retired security guard)

"Martin Payne" (narrow minded: true name Herman Tubick, undertaker and foreman, pictured at left)
"Marvin Connolly" (immature: true name William McBride, reactor operator)
"Violet Stokes" (insecure)
"Deborah Hart" (had affair with Tom Brooks, true name Jean Roseland, mother of three and secretary at TWA, pictured at right)
"Mildred Osborne"

Alternates:
"Ray Harris" (hostile, true name Larry Sheely)
"Ruth Collingwood" (searching for a husband)
"Daniel Jackson" (naive)
"George Kiefer, Jr." (simple)
"Edith Rayburn" (traveler)
"Tom Brooks" (had affair with Deborah Hart, true name Bob Douglass)





41 comments:

orwhut said...

Deborah Hart was a looker.

Matt said...

But the beehive hairdo would make some positions difficult, by the looks of it.

orwhut said...

I guess I'll have to find that book and finish reading it.

Matt said...

On second thought, that's a wig...

orwhut said...

I think you're right. Beehive ladies usually looked like a lot of trouble to me. They didn't seem to like me either.

Heidi S said...
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Doc Sierra said...

Matt said...

But the beehive hairdo would make some positions difficult, by the looks of it.
-------------------------------
Once again Matt makes me laugh. I could just picture her walking back into court after lunch with a big flat spot on the beehive.

Doc Sierra said...

Matt said...

On second thought, that's a wig...
------------------------------
So Matt, would you agree that more positions could be possible if she wore a chin strap on the beehive wig?

Heidi S said...
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cielodrivecom said...

I don't know if it's the case with Blood Family, but my copy of Trial By Your Peers wasn't broken up into chapters. It was just one long book. I don't know why that bothered me so much, but it made me want to blow my brains out while read it.

leary7 said...

hey Cielo, thanks for all your work over on your site. I really enjoyed the Crockett tapes. Just a crazy shot in the dark question, but have you ever talked directly to Manson?

cielodrivecom said...

Thanks Leary, but no I don't talk to Charlie. Do you?

DebS said...

cielodrivecom said...
I don't know if it's the case with Blood Family, but my copy of Trial By Your Peers wasn't broken up into chapters. It was just one long book. I don't know why that bothered me so much, but it made me want to blow my brains out while read it.
---------------

"Blood Family" is one long book with no chapters, too. Annoying, yes! I have a rant about the lack of indexes in these true crime/non-fiction books. For goodness sakes authors, put an index in your books. It makes it much easier to go back and reread certain passages for your own understanding as well as to quote from as need be. If your book is quoted a lot it will probably have better sales simply because it is more visible.

Bugliosi seemed to be one of the very few that included an index, he gets quoted or referenced all the time because things are easy to find in his book. End of index rant.... for now!

GrumpFromPahrump said...
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GrumpFromPahrump said...

I enoyed reading about the conflicts between the jurors and the guards. I know I would have been one of them fighting over the TV.

leary7 said...

I hope that question didn't offend you Cielo. You just seem so connected I thought maybe...
Nah, I would have minimal interest in talking with Manson. There are about a dozen folk from the Family I would rather ask a question and talk to.

cielodrivecom said...

I feel the same way Leary. Btw, definitely not offended.

orwhut said...

I looked up Mr. Zamora to see how his acting career turned out. IMDB showed only one credit, for an episode of, Fall Guy.

ColScott said...

Did none of you remember that this clown showed up on the legendary Manson Family Reunion that Nellie organized? He is dressed like a 196s Batman villain and he gets into it with Fitzgerald while Bug sits there confused. I had it up on YouTube before JimNY had it taken down. I remember the goth chick in it asked me to take it down because she had changed and didn't love Charlie any more but fuck her.

Lost Sailor said...
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Lost Sailor said...
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Matt said...

I remember it. It's still on YT. The only part worth watching in my estimation.

orwhut said...

Matt,
There must be more than one Manson Family Reunion. The only one that I could find on Youtube is hosted by Geraldo. Neither Vince nor Mr. Fitzgerald are on it and the person closest to looking like a Batman villain is a person with a cardboard mask behind his glasses. He says he 's a friend of Charlie.

GrumpFromPahrump said...

Are we taling about the Bertice Berry Show? I remember St George and Blue being on it.

Matt said...

whut, you are correct. It wasn't the Manson Family Reunion one. It was Bertice Berry. I saw it fairly recently while I was looking for something else.

beauders said...

the guy in the mask on geraldo's reunion in john friedman according to lynyrd. he's the guy that raised good's son ivan pugh. friedman was good's friend that lived at spshn before the family. manson traded friedman his psychedlic tent for part of the ranch.

orwhut said...

Now it becomes clear. The Bertice Berry presentation is the one I need to look for and now I know who the guy with the mask was. I couldn't believe his name was really John. Thanks, guys.

orwhut said...

I found 5 parts of a Bertice Berry show with Sandy, George Stimson, Vince, Patti Tate and some new Manson admirers . If this is the correct show, the part with Mr. Zamora and Mr. Fitzgerald must not be up.

DebS said...

orwhut said...
Now it becomes clear. The Bertice Berry presentation is the one I need to look for and now I know who the guy with the mask was. I couldn't believe his name was really John. Thanks, guys.

-------------------------

"John's" birth name is Irwin Kaufman Friedman. John was an alias, too. He adopted the name of Partee eventually and his artwork is sold in that name. He had a website up for a long time but now you can only find it at the Wayback Machine. Parteeand pals.com He explains his lineage in his biography at the website.
His son Johnny was one of the children taken into custody at the Spahn Ranch raid, he was the 10 year old.

orwhut said...

Thank you, Deb. If I can figure out the Wayback Machine, I'll check it out. I never thought I'd get to see the fellow who traded for the tent.

Doc Sierra said...

I tried the parteeandpals but to no avail. Does anyone have a link where we can see this guy. Like orwhut I'd like to see the guy who traded for a tent while tripping.

DebS said...

Try copying and pasting this link.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040718111715/http://www.parteeandpals.com/untitled10a.html

You can read Partee's bio but many of the images do not show up, for me anyway. There one photo of Partee and his first wife taken in the early '60's. Partee does not mention his association with Manson et al but he does mention Ivan.

Doc Sierra said...

Thanks Deb.

matt prokes said...

Lynyrd has a very comprehensive John Friedman thread available here:
http://www.lsb3.com/2012/07/lynyrd-brings-you-some-explosive-shit.html

orwhut said...

Deb and Matt Prokes,
Thanks for the links. I like John's art work.

orwhut said...

The photo said to be Ivan at Lynyrd's site has me speculating about his father again. He was named Pugh so I figured he was Joel's son. Someone said this was incorrect and that Ivan went to college on an athletic scholarship so, I thought it might be Tex. Then, I noticed that ladies man Bobby, looks athletic and I though it might be him. Now that I've seen an adult picture of 'Bucky', I don't know what to think. Where's Maury Povich when you need him?

DebS said...

Orwhut---

Go to

http://www.cielodrive.com/bobby-beausoleil-parole-hearing-2010.php

download the pdf of the hearing. On page 42 of the pdf Bobby admits to being the father of Pugh. If you don't want to or can't do the download, try doing a "find a word" search for Cajun. I think that should take you right to the place in the hearing where Bobby talks about his children.

orwhut said...

Deb,
Thanks! I'll get right on it.

orwhut said...

Deb,
Is that Ivan who Bobby is talking about owning a Cajun restaurant in Dallas?

DebS said...

Orwhut, yes. email me

grimtraveller said...

I'm currently reading the book, I'm at page 141 and thus far, I've found it riveting. It is a handicap to the book that it isn't broken into at least chapters but so far it's been a fascinating insight into yet another aspect of this fascinating case. When I've finished and digested it I may have more to say, be it negative or positive.