Friday, July 25, 2014

Programmed Horrors: Charlie Manson, Orange Sunshine LSD and more MKULTRA

The following is part of a post from RobertsCourt.com. There is much more regarding MKULTRA, besides the Manson connection HERE.

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Is this the true face of our government? Many of our nation's bravest children are saying, yes! One of the first missions of Mind Control conspirators was to kill the messenger who would tell you the truth and build resistance. And kill they have! The Kennedys, King, Lennon and more programmed horrors than can be listed in any blog.

It is well known that followers of Charles Manson committed the Tate-LaBianca murders during the late 1960's. These murders had a profound impact on the peace movement through the long-standing psychological warfare goal of discrediting the enemy through covert associative terrorism. If one examines the case closely, it becomes obvious that Manson used mind-control techniques such as hypnotism, LSD, and other types of mental programming to turn middle-class suburbanites into selfless killers, but one has to wonder just exactly how Manson was able to accomplish this?

You were meant to believe that Manson developed all of these horrific skills on his own, though we now know he was in the hands of our own CIA. The CIA actively advanced this very same "programming" and it literally comes from Nazi German programs. LSD was developed by the Swiss who were working these programming methods and was mass-produced by major U.S. pharmaceutical companies for the CIA.

Consider that Manson was part of the hippie movement at the time of the CIA's project, MKULTRA, which implemented the use of drugs in order to conduct mind control experiments.

It appears that part of Manson's own supply of LSD may have come directly from the CIA. A new type of LSD known as "Orange Sunshine" was being used by the Manson Family immediately prior to the Tate-LaBianca murders according to Family member Charles "Tex" Watson, who wrote in his prison memoir that it was the use of Orange Sunshine LSD that finally convinced him that Manson's violent, apocalyptic vision was real.

In addition, Tex Watson recounted in his testimony that Manson used other drugs such as "mescaline, psilocybin, and the THC, and STP" and described a "mental acid" that "drew stuff out of your mind; and the other (body acid)...would be drawing your body."

Later, when asked about the use of drugs in the Manson family "Tex" said, "People seem to think that Manson had all of us drugged out, while he remained sober so he could easily manipulate our minds. This may be true, but a sorcerer such as Manson uses mind-altering drugs himself in order to contact spiritual beings, and gain supernatural powers."

"He did use drugs to manipulate and control us, and the more drugs we took, the easier it was for him to manipulate us with his philosophy. We all began to reflect his views, a mirror image of destruction, growing worse every day. We mirrored his lifestyle and attitude toward society."

Orange Sunshine LSD was manufactured and distributed exclusively by a group known as "The Brotherhood of Eternal Love" who operated out of a beach resort near Los Angeles. The Brotherhood had among it's drug manufacturers and dealers, one Ronald Stark, who is believed to have manufactured 50 million doses of LSD, and had known connections to the CIA.

It was this very same batch of acid that was available in abundance four months later during the fateful free concert held at Altamont Speedway. Four people died at that concert, one of them after being brutally stabbed to death by a group of Hell's Angels who had been given access to multiple tabs of Orange Sunshine. Many people who attended that concert noted that the LSD seemed to be "contaminated" and that the general vibe one got from using it was that of extreme negativity, violence, and death. Additionally, Orange Sunshine was in use among American ground forces during the Vietnam war, having been smuggled into that country from the California coast.

Manson's personal obsession was with "Helter Skelter" and his belief was that this event would ignite a black-white race war in America; the Tate-LaBianca murders and the murder of musician Gary Hinman were definitely staged with false clues that the killers (or perhaps someone else) hoped would be blamed on elements of the "black militant" movement.

Manson has said in interviews that he based some of his philosophy on the science fiction novel Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Hienlien. In a scenario perhaps reminiscent of Mark David Chapman's and John Hinckley's infatuation with Catcher in the Rye, could Stranger in a Strange Land somehow have been Manson's program-trigger mechanism? Was the concept of Helter Skelter part of Manson's program? It is interesting to note how the "science fiction" character of Valentine Michael Smith in Heinlien's Stranger in a Strange Land very closely parallels Manson's own life: Valentine Michael Smith was a human being who returned to Earth after being raised on Mars where he underwent training in the occult arts; Manson was isolated in prison where he also studied the occult extensively and has quipped that he viewed himself as a man with an alien mind after his release from prison in 1967; both Manson and the fictional "Smith" gathered about them a group of followers into a communal lifestyle and practiced a sort of "group mind" telepathy; both attempted to transform the world as we know if via their respective philosophies.

Are these cults a thing of the past, or have they only been perfected and "normalized?" The study of emotional contagion and synchronized behavior in cult groups was an ongoing mission of the CIA, was it then applied to the culture as a whole? There is no mystery how LSD was so obsessively studied and distributed to millions of Americans through CIA networks. It opens up the "religious" centers of the brain where wrongful authority can program them. LSD was simultaneously distributed to normalize and culturally accept this programming method and discredit an entire peace movement. Many, many "legal" drugs now perform the same function of opening the mind to suggestibility via mass media.

So it came to pass that Charles Manson was stuck in solitary confinement at Folsom Prison when a new inmate was placed in the adjoining cell. It was Tim Leary, who was eventually captured with Joanna Harcourt Smith, who later admitted working for the DEA. "They took you off the streets", Manson informed Leary, "so that I could continue with your work." Charlie couldn't understand how Leary had given so many people acid without trying to "control" them.

With all this in mind, consider that if a ex-convict-turned-hippie like Charles Manson could program people to kill, then why not the U.S. Government?

In the book, Helter Skelter, Manson prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi discussed Manson's programming techniques in depth, likening much of Manson's programming abilities to those used by the U.S. military.

Manson was in prison during the time that the CIA was known to be using inmates at Vacaville prison in the MKULTRA experiments, a fact that leaves one to speculate that perhaps Manson was some sort of mind-controlled guru created by the CIA and set loose against the "subversive" left-wing elements in order to discredit them.

Since his incarceration for the Tate-LaBianca murders, Manson has again served part of his time at Vacaville.

In alot of Manson interviews he will say things like "I'm only what i've been trained to be, I'm only what you thought you" "One interview he said Jimmy Carter made me what I am"

We now have substantiated proof that the CIA was working on projects to control human behavior. You are meant to believe that these were isolated studies, not influencing us domestically, not employed against us. How could we know otherwise?

Given total silence on the subject of collective unconscious manipulation, it is safe to presume that the collective unconscious mind was the true "enemy" of these programs. The individual would need to be more insane than Manson himself to presume otherwise.





61 comments:

Max Frost said...

Interesting Matt...

Whether or not Manson was a subject is definitely in question but regardless, truth really IS stranger than fiction.

Both "1984" and "Brave New World" were not born out of fantasy. They were compelled by inside information regarding how the future was ultimately being designed by those who had the power and desire to see it as realistic - both authors were privy to that information.

The only difference is one author was "for" it and the other was "against" it.

equinox234 said...

Matt,

Thanks so much for highlighting this fascinating article. As a Brit, I always think that the so-called 'ordinary' US citizen deserves a better deal and more honesty than it gets from their successive governments.

Regarding Valentine Michael Smith in Heinlien's Stranger in a Strange Land, I am sure that CM's son with Mary Brunner - Pooh Bear - is called Valentine Michael. Coincidence? Mary Brunner, as a former librarian, would also have a considerable knowledge of literature.

Michael Hloušek-Nagle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael Hloušek-Nagle said...

equinox:

Mary Brunner, as a former librarian, would also have a considerable knowledge of literature.

equinox, that has rarely been my experience of librarians, who invariably have a more considerable knowledge of filing systems than they do of literature.

Michael Hloušek-Nagle said...

Interesting article. One question: What is 'substantiated proof'? Is it even more compelling than regular proof?

equinox234 said...

Michael,

while I appreciate that may have been your own experience of librarians, I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that Mary Brunner had a Masters degree, I think from Columbia University. She was well educated.

Anyway, to me it looks like the name of their child was very close to that particular author's name.

Panamint Patty said...

WOOTTTT

Matt said...

From cielodrive.com:

Mary Brunner was born in Wisconsin in the early 40's. She went to the University of Wisconsin and got a Bachelors degree in History. After graduating, Brunner headed west, and took on a job at the UC Berkeley Library. In 1967, she met and took in Charles Manson.

Panamint Patty said...

Tim Leary wrote about meeting Manson at Folsom in his book, "Neuropolitics." Apparently they kind of liked each other...

Robert Hendrickson said...

I'm a little confused here, You don't think Curt Gentry's (AUTHOR of Helter Skelter) DEATH is relevant to this blog, BUT some guy who gathered-up OTHERS writings off the internet, etc. and pieced them together in a cute/clever way IS ?

YOU don't think Adolf Hitler's beliefs and ambitions are relevant to the MANSON mystique ? How about the word "DOMINATION."

YOU don't think "GHOSTWRITER'S like Curt Gentry are relevant - Most everything you and I were exposed to in OUR formal education was created by ghostwriters, co-authors, editors, etc. to the extent, ALL of us have been educated by "Who the fuck knows."

BUT - if you are proposing that Helter Skelter is simply a fictional STORY created by a couple of nut-jobs - NOT even worthy of mention - isn't that argument, at least, mentionable.

You see, it is well documented that the CIA / JFK caused the overthrow of the South Vietnam President - which then led to the Vietnam WAR, but Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon (two mentally disadvantaged YES men) seem to get all the credit for such an evil deed. So was Charles Manson MAYBE just a YES man for the CIA or was HE really an evil fiend - wanting to dominate the world ? That seems to be the question

To pick and chose which topics are relevant to YOUR blog, is certainly your right and privilege, BUT you may be missing something very interesting, BUT playing a God on the internet - sure is FUN !

Matt said...

Mr. Hendrickson, Helter Skelter was created and executed in 1969-70 by one man - Vincent Bugliosi. He more than anyone is what keeps this topic alive since most of us consider it a fabrication necessary to convict Manson.

Curt Gentry was a professional writer, necessary for meeting the publishers editorial standards. But in the realm of this subject matter he's irrelevant in my opinion.

We here at the blog are, as you correctly stated, folks who gather up others writings off the internet, etc. and piece them together in a cute/clever way. In that sense we are as irrelevant as Gentry was and pleased to admit it.

equinox234 said...

Matt,

Thanks for the clarification re Mary Brunner's academic background.

I was going to say that she was 'nobody's fool' to coin a phrase, but then she went and took up with CM!!!

Panamint Patty said...

lmao Matt. Maybe we could have reported it but everybody already knows so whats the point? RIP Mr. Gentry.

william marshall said...

Huh I thought OWSLEY was the maker of BELS Orange Sunshine First read about the MK Ultra Manson conspiracy in Gorightly's book Shadows over Santa Susana found it really far fetched Only point Gorightly made that really gave something to think about is how come a scumbag like Manson was never sent back to the slams on a parole violation ? Mr Hendrickson didn't you say in your book That during their time at Spahn Charlie was arrested about once a month Guessing none of those charges ever stuck ? Matt did you get my email. ?

Michael Hloušek-Nagle said...

equinox, I'm sure you're right -I was being facetious, I'm sorry.

In Coming Down Fast, Simon Wells states that Manson was somewhat obsessed with that book at that time, and named his son Valentine Michael for that reason.

Michael Hloušek-Nagle said...

Matt I find this very interesting:

most of us consider it a fabrication necessary to convict Manson

So please, if I can catch you while you're being blunt, and ask you:

1) Why do you think such a fabrication was necessary to convict Manson? Did I miss something or was his active role in the La Bianca killings not enough to gain a conviction of conspiracy to commit first degree murder? Couldn't it be enough merely to demonstrate that Charlie was in charge, Charlie gave the orders, Charlie knew both houses and entered one of them to bind the occupants personally?

If a motive was needed - and it wasn't, legally speaking - why not go with the fact that he's a raving freakin lunatic who hated the rich and the comfortable and the successful, the pigs? Why fabricate an insane end-of-time race-war caves-under-the-desert apocalyptic extravaganza? Why not claim the motive was (apologies for breaching copyright, RH) Vietnam? If a motive had to be fabricated, why waste such a great opportunity to slime the anti-war crowd?

2) Do you claim outright fabrication, or useful exaggeration?

Matt said...

Michael,

A person cannot be convicted of a crime based solely on the testimony of his/her co-conspirators. Since there was no forensic evidence tying Manson to LaBianca, and since the others’s testimony needed to be corroborated by outside evidence Bugliosi needed a motive tying Manson to the crime. Since talk of Helter Skelter was seeping back to BUG through people like Paul Watkins he (in my opinion) decided to roll the dice and go with that as his motive. It was a huge gamble given that it was so “far out”. Lucky for him they acted so crazy at trial that they helped to sell it. A “useful fabrication” if you will.

I think the “raving freakin lunatic who hated the rich and the comfortable and the successful” motive may have held water if they had physical evidence tying him to the crimes. Helter Skelter and the brainwashing Svengali cult leader explains why others would do the deed for him.

Michael Hloušek-Nagle said...

Matt, thank you - ok, this answer makes sense and gives me something to think about. Thanks again.

equinox234 said...

Matt,

Is it true that Aaron Stovitz was apparently only interested in those who were physically present, and directly participated in the murders i.e no Charlie? When VB took over the case, he wanted to bring Charlie in and therefore he had to come up with the HS theory, which you have explained very well here. (Please correct me if I am wrong on these details)

Why on earth was VB so hellbent on getting a conviction on CM when it was such a risky strategy?

Robert Hendrickson said...

Ok Matt, but IF 'Helter Skelter' is a complete fabrication, Curt Gentry would have likely realized such, then he could have revealed how the justice system and the non-fiction media system can be a FRAUD. If Bugliosi actually intended to de-fraud the public with his HS Book, alot of folks would be entitled to three times the amount they paid for a copy of HELTER SKELTER. Such would ROCK the book world.

Because Gentry (to my knowledge) never helped promote the book, I suspect HE knew NOT to get involved any further in promoting a possible fraud. Bugliosi could be prosecuted criminally IF HS (the Book) was created to make money - which it obviously was.

IF one knowingly perpetuates a fraud to continually keep someone in prison unjustly - THEY are obstructing JUSTICE.

My only point was: That someone or something UNUSUAL and seemingly non-relevant might turn out to be the "non-sense" that makes SENSE. Curt Gentry has always been a person I would have liked to have spent time talking to.

chatsworth charlie said...

Mr. Hendrickson, I wanted to ask this of you and this seems like a related enough thread to do so in.
I recently saw a 1st edition hardcover of Helter Skelter which on the rear dustcover had qoutes taken directly from your MANSON film.
Was you ever compensated or interviewed (as a source) for that book whatsoever?
What was the popularity of your film at that time in relation to when the HS book first came out?
I never knew these qoutes were on the rear of the book until this past week and having just watched my copy of MANSON piqued my interest

chatsworth charlie said...

Here are said qoutes:
"We are what you made us. We were brought up on your TV.
We were brought up watching 'Gunsmoke' 'Have Gun Will Travel' 'FBI' 'Combat'
'Combat' was my favorite show. I never missed 'Combat.' " -----Brenda


"I became Charlie. Everything I was, was Charlie. There was nothing left of me anymore.
And of all the people in the family, there's nothing left of them anymore, they're all Charlie too." ----Paul Watkins


"Whatever in necessary, you do it. When somebody needs to be killed, there's no wrong.
You do it, and then you move on. And you pick up a child and you move him to the desert.
You pick up as many children as you can and you kill whoever gets in your way.
That is us."------Sandy

Max Frost said...

There are also stills in that book, from MANSON (credited to Hendrickson) from what I remember.

chatsworth charlie said...

Interesting Max.
I was wondering how long this film was actually out originally and how widespread distribution was (I know it was banned in some places for various reasons)
How long was this film completed BEFORE the H.S. book came out.
So many questions......

Max Frost said...

Yeah, c'mon Robert...!

Matt you should do a thread called "Q&A with Robert Hendrickson."

And that's exactly what the thread would be - people asking questions about the MANSON docu, etc.

Think that would go over well.

chatsworth charlie said...

YES!

Terrapin said...

Robert could be compensated a lot more if not for his piracy (shall we say) 'hang-up'.

For instance; lets say 'MANSON' gets an official release... RH is going to be making money off EVERY copy sold. Even if only 1 copy is sold he would get money from it (minus manufacturing/distribution costs obviously).

The most accessible way to get MANSON worldwide now is through illegal piracy, of which RH gets nothing. Even if only 1 person downloads it he gets nothing.

See where i'm going with this...?

The film/dvd industry hasn't died out so there must be more money to be made 'officially' than there is lost 'unofficially'

Michael Hloušek-Nagle said...

RH hasn't replied. My guess - he was shocked by the revelation about the MANSON quotes appearing on the rear cover of Helter Skelter and is now into the fourth hour of a conference call with his phalanx of top city lawyers. Bug is in trouble this time.

Vermouth Brilliantine said...

I think Manson himself had read Heinlein's book prior to Valentine Michael Smith's birth- pretty sure this is mentioned in Sanders' book (maybe Schreck's first one, I forget)? Anyway, I know I have read before that Manson himself was familiar with Stranger in a Strange Land, although who introduced him to it I can't remember. I do remember finding that piece of knowledge confusing, because Sanders himself says Manson was basically 'illiterate' and didn't allow books at the Ranch coz they were fer nerds yo. As usual nothing in this case is clear-cut, is it?

Also... never been entirely convinced by Leary's claim of having met Manson. I've read in some places his account of their discussion was fictional, in other it was fact. Again, clarity on this issue would be welcomed.

Finally, I would also like to defend librarians while I'm here. As a librarian currently working in records services, I just wanna say... a good librarian should have knowledge both of literature AND filing systems. Both equally important in information services. :)

Vermouth Brilliantine said...

Oh, and since I can't shut up- did anyone here ever try Orange Sunshine? It's always totally confused me, personally. I mean... acid trips vary widely according to set, setting, etc., but LSD-25 is LSD-25. I don't understand how you can fashion an 'LSD' that makes people Freaky or Paranoid. Which leads me to think Orange Sunshine wasn't LSD, but maybe an analogue or some other tryptamine altogether.

And since we're bugging Mr. Hendrickson... Mr. H, I see that MANSON is for sale on Amazon. Is it possible to get it in Region 0 or Region 4 format?

equinox234 said...

To get back to the MKULTRA aspect of this thread, over at TOTLB a member, 'Maude's Harold' claimed that there is Monarch Programming in Bobby B's 'Professor Proponderous' cartoon. I watched the film several times, and I can't give an opinion as to whether this is true or not. In order for Monarch Programming to be present, surely that would require BB to have been trained in this method!!

Here is the quote from TOTLB:-

"Keeping in mind that every seen and unseen element is by design, that thing is loaded with Monarch programming, which I figured it would be. It also has visible 'hidden' pictures of goat-satanic faces, skulls, a flying witch and other various scary faces..."

Max Frost said...

Just don't take the brown acid...

Matt said...

@ equinox - It is my opinion that if Stovitz had not been removed from the case that Manson would have served a relatively short sentence and we’d all be on a different blog discussing something else.

@ RH - Bugliosi could be prosecuted criminally IF HS (the Book) was created to make money - which it obviously was.

Except that BUG “proved” HS in court, so no “fraud”.

AustinAnn74 said...

If HS was something made up by Bugliosi, why does LVH continually blab about it being the reason she participated in murder. I don't understand this. I also don't understand what's wrong with Bugliosi doing whatever possible to get Manson off the street. He committed crimes, man. He wasn't some innocent homeless guy. Manson DID participate in tying up the LaBianca's hands, so they couldn't defend themselves, and also was there when Shorty was stabbed to death. He's not innocent. Yes, HS sounds stupid, but nobody knows for sure what went on back then, while living with Manson on that ranch. None of us were there to hear what he talked about on a daily basis. Man, he had those people like sheep. They didn't cut a fart without his blessing. They loved the guy.

orwhut said...

The text seems to imply that Charley and Timmothy Leary were able to converse while in solitary confinement. Solitary must not be as solitary as I thought.

Robert Hendrickson said...

I think Max is a little upset that I seem to be hogging this post (I truely respect Max's observations), so I'll trim my reply.

EQ has hit the nail on the head" Why RISK a sure thing (conviction of the actual Tate/LaBianca massacre participants) just to get CHARLES MANSON.

Matt: I meant ROBERT COURT was using the internet (likely this manson blog) to get HIS info to write HIS articles. The stuff YOU guys write is clearly "source acredited"

BUT on the theory that Helter Skelter was "PROVED" as fact in court ?????????? To my knowledge the ONLY thing proved was that ALL the defendants were GUILTY in a conspiracy to commit murder(s)

IF there is an actual "Statement of Facts" issued by the Court - with the Judge's signature on it - that includes a statement like: "Helter Skelter was the defendants' MOTIVE for killing ALL the named victims" that may be another story worth discussing. AND then - a BOOK issue - is a whole nother ball of wax - separate from a "criminal" issue. One is CIVIL and one is CRIMINAL, BUT if a seemingly CIVIL Fraudulant Book issue can be proved to KEEP someone in prison unjustly (IE: parole board reading "the BOOK") that can be considered a CRIMINAL obstruction of Justice.

Has the MANSON movie influenced the parole board ?

Chatsworth Charlie: I see where you are going - relevant questions ! I was shocked when Helter Skelter came out and those "quotes" were NOT credited to my film MANSON. At the time my lawyers were on it so fuck'in fast AND everything was corrected with the next printing, so I agreed to let the photos and quotes stay. No compensation was paid, but there existed a special relationship between Bugliosi and Merrick which the movie MANSON has benefited from. Norton Publishing also provided us with the HS book progress reports - which became helpful in our film distribution efforts.

After Squeaky Fromme attempted to assassinate Ford MANSON became very, very successful, grossing over $30,000 in some theaters in opening week.

Vermouth Brilliantine said...

orwhut: You can read Leary's account here, if you haven't already: http://www.mansonblog.com/2013/08/timothy-leary-meets-manson-in-folsom.html .

It seems to consist of Leary and Manson 'calling' to each other through their cell walls or the bars or something (? - I don't know how prisons work). I do think it's likely this was an intellectual exercise for Leary, him trying to analyse the context of Manson's place in and impact on the 60s via a fictional conversation. I still can't seem to find anything that backs this view up, though.

However, I did find this: https://archive.org/details/Timothy_Leary_Archives_009.dv

Michael Hloušek-Nagle said...

"One of the first missions of Mind Control conspirators was to kill the messenger who would tell you the truth and build resistance. And kill they have! The Kennedys, King, Lennon"

Yeah, the Kennedys, those brave, innocent tellers of truth to power. I expect Oliver Stone and Michael Moore will be next on the hit list.

orwhut said...

Vermouth,
Thank you. Fortunately, I have no first hand experience with prison life either.

equinox234 said...

Robert H,

If Bugliosi had stuck with prosecuting the actual participants, it would have meant Linda Kasabian getting her just desserts for her part in both evenings' atrocities.

I know that Stovitz was pulled off the case because he continued to defy the Judge's ruling on the media coverage. But that was like closing the stable door after the horse had bolted. This case was covered worldwide. In any event, the worst case of a lawyer talking about the case to the media had to be Richard M Nixon!

I wonder if part of Stovitz' removal was due to his not pursuing Manson. Why was Bugliosi so hellbent on getting CM? Perhaps there were orders from higher up than the District Attorney's office?

sbuch113 said...

I feel if HS were the motive it would have been introduced at Leslie's retrial.

Max Frost said...

Robert,

No I wasn't at all upset. I was adding to what Chatsworth Charlie was saying about the quotes on the book.

I'm also suggesting a thread dedicated to a Q&A between you and the bloggers about all things MANSON docu.

orwhut said...

Robert and Matt,
I too, would enjoy a question seasion about the film. I'll need advanced notice to remember the questions that I've had for years.

chatsworth charlie said...

I think we all have questions and hope it happens.

orwhut said..."I'll need advanced notice to remember the questions that I've had for years."

equinox234 said...

Have any of you read Nikolas Schreck's book (2nd Edition)? I was looking at an online review of it, and according to the review, NS contends that Abigail Folger and Voytek were murdered when CM returned to Cielo during the night to plant misleading clues. So, if that is true, CM would be fully complicit due to his presence at the time of murder. This is obviously subject to NS' source of information, and the difficulty of getting corroborative evidence.

Matt said...

equinox234 said...
Have any of you read Nikolas Schreck's book (2nd Edition)?


equinox, don't waste your time with that pile of rubbish:

"WeR7" - DEBUNKING THE BUNK: An Introduction

DEBUNKING THE BUNK PART 1: A Look at Joel Rostau

Debunking the Bunk Part 2: The Timeline

equinox234 said...

Matt,

Thanks for that - I'll read these blog entries later today (currently 10.38am UK). It looks like you have saved me quite a bit of money!

Matt said...

It's an expensive book and an entertaining read, but once you begin checking the facts it all falls apart vey quickly. Don't waste your money...

equinox234 said...

Matt,

this is totally off topic for the thread, but I wanted to bring it to the attention of the readers here. Bobby B has more than one FB page. On one of the pages, on 14 July, a contributor called Nicholas Syracuse posted that he had been out to find Bobby's old power wagon. He did indeed locate it, and contacted Bobby who has confirmed from the photos that it was indeed the vehicle and gives the back story about the vehicle. The text of the email from Bobby is there, together with photos from Mr Syracuse.

This is the link:-

https://www.facebook.com/realbobbybeausoleil?fref=ts


Matt said...

Hey equinox, Bobby's Powerwagon is well documented. This was when we visited it a couple of years ago:

2012 Tour, Day 3


Robert Hendrickson said...

Thanks for clarification Max. SEE how most anything can be interpreted two or more ways. Q & A ok with me.

POST comments made me think: Maybe all Bugliosi wanted was to - at least- get CM into the courtroom where the fireworks would fly. Maybe the "BOOK" deal was already in the works and "IT" needed something UNUSUAL & SPECIAL to make the Manson CASE the "Crime of the Century." Cause without Charles Manson as the STAR and without a MOTIVE like HS "the $$$$ glove doesn't fit."

"ROBBERY gone BAD" does NOT get it ! DRUG connection - blah !

Remember, Book $$$ deals were already buzzing, before the pretrial hearings even began. Bugliosi had to of - at least- been approached by a publisher. AND if you read Helter Skelter carefully, it is rather obvious that articulate NOTES were taken ALL through the progress of the MANSON case. These NOTES made it easy for a professional writer like Curt Gentry to assemble a great story-line.

OH, and Helter Skelter sure worked as an important element for MANSON - the movie !

Matt said...

Since Mr. H has agreed to the Q & A, we'll make that our post for Wednesday. In the mean time, please don't start posting questions yet. Jot them down and keep them handy for then.

Thanks, RH!


chatsworth charlie said...

Nice!
Matt and or RH.....are questions RE:"Inside The Manson Gang" accepted as well?
That's really where most of my questions aRISE from anyhow.

Max Frost said...

They were both part of one experience so I would assume they could both be covered in one Q&A.

Yay, Robert?

HellzBellz said...

Charles Manson: Stranger in a Strange Land. Dont have to write more here.....

HellzBellz said...

Owh forgot about the Leary&Manson prison Chat...

When I first read this years ago it was on a webpage which described it as fictional, i.e. Leary had been in the same prison as Manson (and knew it) so made up an account of how things would have gone down if they'd actually "rapped" (as the kidz say these days, amirite?).

Robert Hendrickson said...

BOTH is fine. THE DIFFERENCE: - one is the 1973 "Establishment" type doc and "Inside the MANSON Gang" is a reflection of my personal journey while filming the Manson Family - made 40 years later.

I just saw a great doc on PBS about Al Capone and WOW, the similarities between Big Al and Charlie are striking. Capone became the FIRST "Celebrity Gangster" and Charlie became the FIRST "Celebrated Gangster Entertainer." Both were created by the MEDIA and the public fell in love with their ATTENTION.

Of course, Jesse James of the James Gang (also a by-product of the media) broke the ice between the public and "Celebrity" criminals.

Did YOU know that Al Capone also had another side ? He actually introduced black "JAZZ" to the "white" public via his Chicago "Speak-easys ? All the greats played his clubs, while still being barred from performing in other "White Only" establishments.

Michael Hloušek-Nagle said...
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Michael Hloušek-Nagle said...

Tax evasion AND introducing white guys to jazz - that Al Capone really was a nasty piece of work.

Robert Hendrickson said...

AND he ORDERED the St. Valentine Day MASSACRE. How else would guys remember to get their sweethearts flowers ,at least, one day a year ?

OOPS - MASSACRE - another clue ?

V.A. Services said...

Hi, all...

Pausing in my usual occupation of "lurker" to note something that was news to me (maybe not to everyone else here)...Hope this isn't too o.t. or isn't old news to y'all...

In the post it's mentioned that Manson was a fan of Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land"...but has anyone made the connection between the whole "Helter Skelter" thing and another of Heinlein's works: "Farnham's Freehold" (you can read a plot synopsis here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farnham's_Freehold)?

Maybe a stretch, but the elements are pretty close: white family (with black servant) descend into a hole (a bomb shelter) and end up in a society where Africans now rule the world and keep whites as slaves...

Ok not an exact match...but either a. maybe the basis for the whole HS idea (if you believe it really was the motive)...or b. the basis for a great misunderstanding (Manson tells a stolen, bastardized version of the story as a "fairy tale/bedtime story" for the group...and it's taken a bit too seriously by the clan or co-opted as a "motive" by the Bug when it's related to him.)

I don't buy the whole HS motive...but it seemed odd to me.

Is my tin foil hat too tight again? Or has anyone else made this connection?

-Nefaereti (being too lazy to log out of google and into my other account :P)