Wednesday, February 11, 2015

Canyons


"If you were surprised by the murders, you weren’t connected to what was going on in the canyon”

- Gail Zappa 

"David (Briggs) chased Manson off the grounds of his Topanga house. Manson wanted his truck. David told him he’d shoot him if he didn’t get lost. Manson was scared of Briggs

- David Blumberg (Music Arranger)



I just finished a couple of older books in the last few weeks, and they got me to thinking about Manson again. I wasn’t really reading any of them for Manson-related reasons, but it doesn’t seem to matter much. Whenever I get into anything related to music or the Los Angeles area in the late 60’s- Charlie seems to make an appearance sooner or later. One of the books was about the music scene in and around Laurel Canyon. It had all the usual suspects. I read tales of Mama Cass Elliot and her rock and roll networking parties, and stories about Frank Zappa and the legendary “Log Cabin”. Once again, I wondered about the close proximity of the Cass Elliot residence to where two of the victims of TLB were living at the time.

In this first book, I read references made by Gail Zappa and music industry executives (such as Sally Stevens) to seeing Charlie and his friends at parties, and being in and around the scene. I had always believed that if there was any connection between the TLB murders and the music industry, it had to have had its roots in relationships forged during these times and in this place, where some of the people known to have associated with both the family and the victims socialized. I hung on to the little things I read—small pieces I had picked up here and there that told me members of the family had to have come into contact with certain people associated with the victims in Laurel Canyon; and yet, I could never come across any concrete evidence that Charlie had personally met anyone who was intimately involved with any of the major players of the Laurel Canyon musical fraternity.

There were things about Dennis Wilson, but that never seemed to get me anywhere beyond the time they spent having sex orgies at his house. Not sure that there is anything of real concrete value in relation to Dennis that we don’t already know, and it never seemed to directly tie Charlie to any other member of the music scene outside the Melcher/Wilson/Jakobson trilogy.  The Wilson connection was essentially some great sex stories, and a nice final tab for Dennis along with a wrecked car or two. But aside from that, nobody else would admit to having anything to do with Charlie if it couldn’t be proven. Dennis himself wouldn’t talk about it after the murders. After all these years, and after reading almost all the TLB-related books, I had become convinced there would never be any direct admissions by any other players of any consequence of any dealings with Manson or his minions. But to steal a line from our favorite Prosecutor- it was otherwise, however, with the second book I read...



All quotes/excerpts below are taken from the biography "Shakey" by Jimmy McDonough.

"Topanga Canyon is a mere 25-minute drive from Hollywood and, in the late 60’s, was a universe apart from the glitz of the Sunset Strip. "It was like I was on speed and everyone else was on downers. People wore capes in Topanga".

 - Writer Eve Babitz

Floods and fires brought hippies and rednecks together and earned it the nick-name- Haight Ashbury South: "It just exploded" - "it’s inaccessible except for one road so it became a microcosm of the best of the 60’s".

- Actor Dean Stockwell

"There were theater groups, nudist colonies, and communes, plus a small thriving music scene centered around the Corral. Originally a country western hole-in-the-wall called Mickey’s Hideaway, the Corral was revamped by architect Ral Curran into a hippy nightclub complete with a large painting of a naked couple, entitled Pisces Dancing, hanging over the dance floor. Canned Heat, Taj Mahal, the Flying Burrito Brothers, and Joni Mitchell all played at Corral, along with Neil Young and Crazy Horse. Biker Gang Satans Slaves called the Corral home, as did R&B great Big Joe Turner, who was booked into the club by beatnik "Topanga" Dick Ludwig, famous for his T-shirt proclaiming "Topanga Dick is not a social disease!" People would walk out into the parking lot with pitchers of beer, there would be drug connections up the street, people were screwing in the bushes, it was nuts. Just nuts." 


- author

"In addition to the other Topanga Crazies Young was meeting, at some point in 68 he encountered Charles Manson a few times. ( Curiously, Young and Manson share a November 12 birth date)"

- author   

Well, this is interesting to me for a couple of reasons. First, this must be the Corral where Charlie and Bobby’s band played their "Milky Way" gigs. Who knew they were in such heavy company?  Second, I have read references to connections between the Family and Satan’s Slaves. A potential motive in Labianca ties this biker gang to a daughter of one of the victims through a boyfriend. As Charlie was only out for a short time in the big picture, and traveled a bunch as well, there was only so much time for him to have met all of the people he is tied to. We know that when he was at Spahn Ranch he was spending most of his free biker time with the Straight Satans. So if indeed Charlie did meet and form some type of relationship with Satan’s Slaves, was it here- during this period? This is the first thing I have ever read that puts both of them at the same place in the same time.

Also in this book, I came across an interesting character named David Briggs. He was the producer of almost every record Neil Young made with his side-band Crazy Horse. He lived in Topanga, and for a time while recording his earliest solo stuff- Neil Young lived with him at 1174 Old Topanga Road on his Ranch. They shared the place with the white dog you see on the cover of "Everyone Knows This is Nowhere".  They hung around with guys like Louie Kelly. His parties were infamous. He was a charter member of the Topanga All-Stars, a loose congregation of 15 or so roughnecks who functioned as "Topanga's answer to the James Gang." The Topanga Allstars also congregated on the property. David Briggs had some unique personality traits. Here is a quote about life at Mr. Brigg's Ranch:

"They treated women like dirt. The whole macho cowboy thing. I have never heard anyone before refer to a woman as "old lady". 

- That was said by Nils Lofgren, who was about to join the band. Here are a few more quotes about David Briggs:


"Briggs was evil, an evil individual. He looked like the devil. There was this anti-Semitic thing I used to get from David Briggs. He wasn't too crazy about Jews."

- Larry Kurzon (Agent and Manager)


"You put a hand right in front of David's face and you get a lot of respect out of him immediately. His mouth has written a lot of checks his ass can't cash."

- Kirby Cohee (Childhood friend)


"David was the master of committing women to slavery by putting them in left field. A true master of administering pure pain and gaining true love"

- Poncho Sampedro (Guitar player - Crazy Horse)


"One thing about David Briggs - even when you thought he was completely gone, he was always 100% there. Even when he was 100% stoned, 100% out of his mind, 100% lost on some fucking trip, he was still there. What was Brigg's job?  I think he kept the chaos happening. 

- Niko Bolas (Engineer)


Remind you of anyone? You wonder if Neil Young had encountered Charlie during this period if Neil and some of Neil's friends maybe had some influence on a struggling musician wannabe? When exactly did the vibes get darker for Charlie? Somewhere between the Magic Mystery Tour on the bus and Helter Skelter at Spahn Ranch, Charlie went from Mr. Lovey-Dovey to Apocalypse Now, and there wasn't a whole bunch of time in between. But, these times were in between. Who and what were the influences that caused this huge turnaround in Manson's priorities? The Beatles did all of that with a couple of records?

Hmmmm...

As for Neil Young, you can read the 700 plus pages for the rest of his story, but he certainly surrounded himself with some dark people. But I would ask if it was the darkness that Neil saw in Charlie? When exactly did they really meet? Was Charlie even showing dark signs back in Topanga in 68, if they crossed paths at that time?  If Neil would admit to meeting Charlie several times, why not be honest about when? Certainly, some of what I read Neil say about the meetings didn't add up. It could be passing of time, selective memory, or who knows what else. If you listen to Neil Young, it is simple and he has figured it all out. Me? I am still not so sure. As always, with anything I read about this case, I walk away with as many questions as answers. But you haven't read all of this for my feelings and thoughts. Here are Neil Young's:

"We just hung out. He played some songs for me, sittin in Will Rogers old house, on Sunset Blvd. Dennis had a house there, and I visited Dennis a couple of times… Charlie was always there. I think I met him two, maybe three, times. Spent the afternoon with him. Dennis and all those girls - Linda Kasabian, Squeaky Fromme. The girls. They only paid attention to Charlie. Dennis and I felt like we weren't there, o.k.? Now that may not seem that unusual, but it is. Because both Dennis and I were known. The girls couldn't see us. He seemed uptight, a little too intense. Frustrated artist. Spent a lot of time in jail. Frustrated songwriter. Singer. Made up songs as he went along. New stuff all the time, no two songs were the same. I remember playing a little guitar while he was making up songs. Strong will, that guy .I told Mo Ostin about him- Warner Brothers. This guy is so unbelievable - he makes songs up as he goes along, and they are all good. Never got any further than that. Never got a demo. Glad he didn't get around to me when he was punishing people for the fact he didn't make it in the music biz. That's what that was all about. Didn't get to be a rock and roll star, so he started wiping people out. Dig that."

Q: What would have happened if he had got signed?

"Well, he would have probably gotten pissed off at them. He was an angry man. But brilliant. Wrong, but stone brilliant. He sounds like Dylan when he talks. He is like one of the main movers and shakers of the time- when you look back at Jesus and all those people. Charlie was like that. But he was kind of…. skewed. You can tell by reading his words. He's real smart. He's very deceptive though. Tricky. Confuses you. Crosby was scared to death of doing Revolution Blues. He didn't think it was safe to do it. Didn't want people to get the message you know- about Rock and Roll stars being worse than lepers. Didn't want that vibe out there."

Q: Are some people just Evil?

"Some people's lives are evil. I think people are receptacles- evil and good are out there. We either pick up on one or the other. I mean Well, if you're talking about intensity, and you're talking about somebody who you don't why they get to ya - look at Charlie."



So it seems like they certainly spent some time together. Not sure Linda was around when they were at Dennis Wilson's and Neil sure had a pretty specific opinion of someone he barely met. But there could be good reasons for those types of things... What is more important to me is that this erases any doubts that Charlie had met, at least, one of the major players in the music scene outside of Dennis Wilson. If Neil young is wrong about where/when, that makes it a bit more interesting to me as well..

Sometime in the couple of years (total) that Manson was free in between jail sentences, he formed some relationships and connections that, in addition to various influences he came under, I believe, led to the motive for the TLB murders. I think the motive had its roots in the scene he first flirted with, and aspired to, before things went South. I always assumed that Laurel Canyon was the most fertile soil for those seeds to have been planted. But, it seems that in my obsession over Laurel Canyon- I may have overlooked another Canyon just a few miles away. Topanga appears to have been another place in the late 60's in California where only no sense seemed to make any sense at all...


-All the very best from Your (You're?) Favorite Saint ;)






56 comments:

AustinAnn74 said...

Interesting, Saint. Very interesting. Ya know who I emailed about 6 or 7 months ago to ask her if she ever remembered running into CM & girls during those times? Miss Pamela Des Barres. Of course, she never wrote back, nor did

AustinAnn74 said...

the woman that answers her emails when she's too busy. It's strange how not many want to talk about it.

Mr. Humphrat said...

Good reading thanks Saint.

Robert Hendrickson said...

Nice work Saint. Now look carefully at "Kasabian" She provides a time frame or window to the TL Murders.

So exactly WHAT changed when SHE arrived on the scene ? Oh, She have'th a valid driver's license !

Any good cop knows THAT can hold-up ANY Black & White "revolution."

Panamint Patty said...

Morning ST xoxo

Matt said...

Nice post, ST. Welcome back.

CrisPOA said...

Hi ST, thanks for the reading. I have this fascination about the canyons. I've already bought a book about the Laurel Canyon scene - maybe the same book you have? But it is waiting in line now because at the moment i am reading a Manson related book. I can say i am beginning to understand why people say that this story never ends.

Your post reminded me of something i read in Tex Watson's site once. In an interview with a Shadoe Steele he states that
"I was looking for the good life, where a lot of the Rock 'n Roll groups of the '60s lived, like the Doors [some I even met], but overall, I found more failure, because of the condition of my own heart."

"[some i even met]"?
Was he refering here to Wilson or did he met others as well?

I began to research about Laurel Canyon because i am interested in Jim Morrison's story, especially his girlfriend Pamela, and began to learn about the scene. The couple lived in the Canyon for a while, as well as other Doors musicians.

Isn't it intriguing that all these people could have had their life paths crossed? The 60's music scene is complex but it sure is fascinating.

starship said...

Reading this great post I thought of something I had written a while back:

"Reminds me of the Simon Wells book where he painted a portrait of how carefree and happy everyone was, including Charlie, in 1967-1968...but then 1969 comes and it all went to shit. No record deal, the White Album, and drug burns start to do that I guess."

But as for Neil Young and others, I'm sure that as soon as Charlie and the girls and Tex were arrested that they formed some opinions about them all which they hold onto to this day.

And if only it could be proved that Joe Dorgan was a Satans Slave, but alas it cannot, and I've been told that he has always denied it.

Suze said...

A nicely written and thought provoking piece, St. C. Thank you for taking the time to write it. Hope to hear more in the future!

ColScott said...

Here this is helpful and more recent that stuff from Saint SmellYourPants

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/02/laurel-canyon-music-scene

ColScott said...

Robert
It seems in every post you have something you are just dying to say. You sound more like a cheap fortune cookie every day. If you have something that you can prove that establishes the motives for the murders which is ALL I give a fuck about please share it.

Suze said...

The return of Col VerbalDiarrhea!

ColScott said...

Ahhh Suze I never left- I walk among you always. I stopped blogging because I had nothing new to say. I stopped posting because I had nothing new to say. I am glad that the fact you have nothing to say hasn't prevented you from doing the same

Matt said...

I'm glad you are back too, Col. It isn't the same without you.

Mr. Humphrat said...

Chris one thing that cracks me up about Jim Morrison I think it was Pamela DeBarge? said was when she met him he looked up and said "Get it on!" That's how he greeted people not just her.

58f7f4b8-1dd6-11e4-a6f1-df825d6e9554 said...

Brilliant, Saint. First time I ever saw a post that recognized that Briggs was more pivotal than Wilson in all of this.

chimpydork said...

David Briggs / Neil Young's crib today - talk about gentrification.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1174-Old-Topanga-Canyon-Rd-Topanga-CA-90290/20549485_zpid/

58f7f4b8-1dd6-11e4-a6f1-df825d6e9554 said...

Laurel Canyon was supposed to become a freeway that was designed in the 50s, but by the early 60s the canyon had become a Hollywood enclave so the lobbying against it was easy.

58f7f4b8-1dd6-11e4-a6f1-df825d6e9554 said...

Oh to live in
Topanga Canyon
With the mudslides
And the wildfire comes soon

58f7f4b8-1dd6-11e4-a6f1-df825d6e9554 said...

Scott, that was a fun link. Here is another one: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/magazine/neil-young-comes-clean.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

58f7f4b8-1dd6-11e4-a6f1-df825d6e9554 said...

That'd be:

www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/magazine/neil-young-comes-clean.html

Robert Hendrickson said...

Ahhh.. Fortune Cookie - You mean like "Today good day to buy house"

But NOT "Good day for start WAR against Muslim OR spread TRUTH.

58f7f4b8-1dd6-11e4-a6f1-df825d6e9554 said...

On a side note, the Wilson family home was eventually razed to make room for a freeway.

58f7f4b8-1dd6-11e4-a6f1-df825d6e9554 said...

Whoa. That New York Times article I linked last night about Neil Young was written by David Carr, He collapsed at his office today and died.

SusanB said...

Is it just me or does anyone else wonder that with all the free lovin' goin on in Dennis Wilson's bed between him and the Manson gals, did any of them claim to have fallen pregnant to him? I can't recall it being said anywhere. I could be mistaken though. Charlie forbade contraception and you can't tell me DW kept a supply of condoms on hand.

Matt said...

Susan, given all the schtupping that went on in those two years I find it amazing that they didn't reach that goal of 144,000.

SusanB said...

Lol. Good point, Matt. Yep the girls and Dennis were at it like rabbits...and probably just as hairy. Ewww.
I wonder if the rampant stds among the Manson lovelies ( not!) lowered the pregnancy rate. Probably, Id say. Also with their poor diet, drug taking and bad hygiene its possible some of them stopped ovulating. Their bodies (not only their brains) would've been confused. Or maybe swinging dick Dennis was shooting blanks for the same reasons. Haha...can you imagine the paternity suits today? Kaaaa Ching!

Mr. Humphrat said...

Or their drug taking etc. might have caused miscarriages?

Robert Hendrickson said...

I'm sorry Col - for seeming sarcastic concerning a "motive," BUT it is almost impossible to translate a "meaning" from one culture to another. IE: "Human sacrifice" For people who performed such a ritual, it was considered an "offering." Today WE see it as plain an simple "murder." WAR is another word that has one ring for the party that starts it and another sound for the "defenders" against it.

THUS, for an author to even to begin to explain a motive, HE must first establish which SIDE he is on. Of course, therein lies a critical decision, because which side you are on determines how well the book will sell.

On "60 minutes" last Sunday night, the director of the new movie "Selma" just revealed her motivation for having LBJ portrayed in a certain negative light. Apparently folks have been complaining that LBJ did so much for Black folks, why portray him so negatively. I understand THEIR complaint, but from my perspective HE should have been portrayed as the mother-fuckin monster that HE was. So how would YOU explain LBJs "motive" for sending tens of thousands of America's finest to die in the rice-paddies of Vietnam? Cause without that "explanation" first, NO Manson Family motive is going to make ANY sense.

starship said...

Ah, thanks for clearing that up, Mr. H.

Matt said...

Robert, I thought the very same thing watching that 60 Minutes piece. The villian is all a matter of perspective.

JC said...

IIRC,in I'm With The Band, Pamela Des Barres mentions being casually acquainted with Bummer Bob and his dog Snofox.

Mr. Humphrat said...

Robert, you said once that you want to look at Manson in a multi-dimensional light yet I don't think you do LBJ and Nixon the same favor. They were both complex people not just monsters.

Jenn said...

Thanks for this. I'm in LA almost monthly, and I go to Laurel Canyon most every time. It's just a very special place. I drive or walk by several of the musician houses and just contemplate what all went on there...Carole King's Tapestry house, where one of the great albums of all time was written. Joni Mitchell/Graham Nash house, such great songs. She still owns it but doesn't live there. Zappa's house burnt down, but I still walk around the lot. Cass's house where so much happened. A magical place.

CarolMR said...

From the March 2015 issue of Vanity Fair (both quotes from Michelle Phillips):


"Cass's house was the biggest mess I have ever seen a house be in my life. She never cleaned, never tidied up, never did the dishes, never made her bed. I remember going to her house in Stanley Hills before she moved to Woodrow Wilson. I got to her house and she wasn't home, so I decided to jimmy the window and get in. You know those huge, giant, industrial-size jars of mayonnaise? She had dropped one on the floor and just left it there. I cleaned up her entire kitchen, her entire house; it took me, like, three and a half hours. I just kept cleaning until it was spotless. Then I walked out the door, closed it, and never said a word to her."



"Before 1969, my memories were nothing but fun and excitement and shooting to the top of the charts and loving every minute of it. The Manson murders [in the summer of 1969] ruined the L.A. music scene. That was the nail in the coffin of the freewheeling, let's get high, everybody's welcome, come on in, sit right down. Everyone was terrified. I carried a gun in my purse. And I never invited anybody over to my house again."

Robert Hendrickson said...

Good one Humphant: But how does anyone find out about any info on LBJ's "other" dimensions. They still haven't even told US "why" HE sent tens of thousands of young Black, Brown and beige colored boys to HELL ?

AND "Nixon" ? What was that all about ? EVIL ? - at least the Devil had a personality. Seems to me both LBJ and Nixon were just a couple of tampons who had the political ability to stay clean while the rest of us .........

CAROLMR: Thanks for the comment.

Now I'm wondering WHY "Phillips" thought "Helter Skelter" (the Tate/Labianca massacre) ruined the LA music scene ?

Were any of the "victims" also into music ?

58f7f4b8-1dd6-11e4-a6f1-df825d6e9554 said...

It's like choosing between Ginger and Mary Ann - were the Sixties ended by Manson or Altamont?

58f7f4b8-1dd6-11e4-a6f1-df825d6e9554 said...

I don't know for sure, but I took it as believable the story that Sebring cut Jim Morrison's hair for the iconic Rolling Stone cover - the Lion cover.

Mr. Humphrat said...

Robert, even tampons have three dimensions. Have you ever heard the LBJ oval office tape when he was talking to someone about the tailoring of his pants and needing more room in his bunghole? It's classic.
58f I don't believe Altamont ended the sixties but I do believe it was only about three and a half weeks from ending the sixties. Maybe Dick Clark ended the sixties.
Carol, I can see why Cielo Drive made everyone paranoid but why would they stop inviting known friends over? Maybe because you invite people and others you don't know tag along? And then they could be lunatics?

Robert Hendrickson said...

Many numbers: kinda makes you think - What IF Manson's motive for the TL murders was to END the Vietnam War ?

AND what IF the Prosecution used THAT for the "motive" at trial ?

Given all the men hiding out from the military draft at Spahn's Ranch, it even makes sense to a "reasonable" man of the times.

P.S. Given the Mamas and Papas knew C. Manson, SHE (Phillips) would of course be scared.

Robert Hendrickson said...

Just a little side note here:

Anyone else see Obama's request to Congress for MORE power to declare War against ISIS as folLowing in the exact same footsteps as President LBJ when HE got the "Gulf of Tonkin" passed ?

Only difference NOW - even women, this time around, may be "drafted."

58f7f4b8-1dd6-11e4-a6f1-df825d6e9554 said...

Admiral Morrison was the commanding Admiral over Gulf of Tonkin reporting to LBJ - but nobody knew that at the time except for Jim.

Mr. Humphrat said...

Cool fact 58f

bobby said...

Robert Hendrickson said...

"What IF Manson's motive for the TL murders was to END the Vietnam War ?"

Robert, I think you have alluded as such many times. I think Sandra Good has many times as well.

So Charlies little stand up be a man & defend your self speech was really to tell the kids that if they are so damned against the war then do something about it. oh yeah & leave something withcy behind while you're at ?

I guess it explains PK carving WAR in Leno's chest but why didn't they write STOP the F'ing war in blood ?

To me the whole : We did it to stop the war thing is just a hindsight excuss given by defenders & Sandra. You know, yeah okay they killed some people but look at how many people died in that evil war so leave us alone shit.

any way just taking my turn at rambling on.

St. C. Thanks for the post it is very cool. & all though I don't have any desire to smell your pants it's pretty awesome that you made the Col. D. all jealous ! of you.

58f7f4b8-1dd6-11e4-a6f1-df825d6e9554 said...

Technically, Morrison wasn't promoted to Admiral until 2 years after Gulf the Tonkin incident, and it was Admiral Stark in Hawaii who reported to LBJ directly. But, Morrison was in the Gulf and was the commanding naval officer on the scene.

Robert Hendrickson said...

I get your drift Humphrat - LBJ was also just a regular guy (Hickabilly from Texas) BUT that's the scary part - so was "TEX."

AND the fact that ANYONE can end-up as the leader of the FREE world is still mind-boggling to me.

AND for me, the real head-scratcher is the fact that MY parents, whom I loved and respected beyond measure helped put that worthless human being in POWER. When I was drafted into the US Army that became the FIRST significant issue our family was ever confronted with. OR should I say, the FIRST relevant issue that had a profound effect on ME.

On the flip-side, it woke me up to a whole new world in which I would have a voice and a whole new perspective on life.


Mr. Humphrat said...

And Robert LBJ did a hell of a lot to get the civil rights bills passed. To me that's the flip side of Vietnam. And I admire his extraordinary ability to work with Congress even though it meant a lot of threatening and deals.

Jenn said...

Robert, no, that's not the only difference. By the way, why do you put the word victims in quotation marks?

By the way, all, I drove by Corcoran State Prison last night on the way home from Vegas. I waved to Manson on our behalf. ;-)

58f7f4b8-1dd6-11e4-a6f1-df825d6e9554 said...

The New York Times began publishing excerpts from the Pentagon Papers on June 13, 1971.

Jim Morrison died on July 3rd 1971, the same exact day as Admiral Morrison was the keynote speaker at the decommissioning ceremony for Bon Homme Richard, his first ship as an admiral.

Just saying.

Wiki has a photograph of a short haired Jim with dad on the bridge of the same ship in 1964. That must be shortly before she sailed to the Gulf of Tonkin as the fleet flagship.

Robert Hendrickson said...

As far as I know Bobby - NOBODY claims that Manson ended the Vietnam War. Just that HE ended the "music scene" and "the sacred 1960s." BUT wouldn't the 1960s include it's most outstanding accomplishment - the great Vietnam WAR ?

Once in awhile, I throw that out there, just to remind US that EVERYTHING "Good" is attributable to God and EVERYTHING "Bad" is attributable to the Devil / Manson. OR is it the other way around ?

I wonder how Jimmy's Admiral dad felt about HIM evading "the draft" ? How about, "Hey Jimmy, wouldn't you just love to be a famous American Sniper ?

Robert Hendrickson said...

Mr. Humphrat: Unfortunately, you may have been politically tricked - just like my parents were. LBJ pushed the Civil Rights Bill through to complete JFKs PLAN for Vietnam, in which HE stated (it's on audio tape) "How can I get the Black man to fight in Vietnam if he does not have equal RIGHTS" ?

LBJ provided the Black man with the RIGHT to die in a Vietnam Rice Paddy - just like a White man. He also gave a Black woman the RIGHT to be paid $$$ for each baby they had - without a documented FATHER. AND that is why, to this day, so many Black people are FATHERLESS.

While LBJ was the President of the United States AFTER he signed the RIGHTS Bill - it was still illegal for a BLACK man to marry a WHITE girl in LBJs home state of Texas. As an American soldier, a Black man could marry a White woman in Vietnam, BUT not in many part of the United States.

I could go on and on over this controversial subject BUT I also realize how difficult it is to accept being "conned" UNfortunately, or otherwise - FACTS are FACTS forever.

Perhaps you could provide us with a description of at least one "civil" right LBJ gave to Black folks - that they didn't already have via the US Constitution. BESIDES the "right" to be paid for having FATHERLESS children. ALL historians give HIM credit for that.

Don't get me wrong, I actually appreciate LBJs political genius AND I also think Charles Manson and LBJ would have made GREAT cell-mates.

58f7f4b8-1dd6-11e4-a6f1-df825d6e9554 said...

The book by Doors' drummer John Densmore gives some insight to Jim Morrison's draft evasion status. According to Densmore: Ray was already a veteran, Kreiger's parents were rich and had hired a deferment lawyer to handle it, but Densmore was scared shitless.



Densmore says that at the time he just couldn't understand Jim's nonchalant attitude about the threat of being drafted out of the band. Densmore's book tells the story of Jim trying to calm Densmore down before his physical, even driving for Densmore. Jim said all you have to do is say yes to the homosexual feelings question - so Densmore did.



Densmore also says in his book how he realizes now that being an admiral's son was probably the reason Jim never worried about being drafted.

Mr. Humphrat said...

Robert, the quote "How can I get the Black man to fight in Vietnam if he does not have equal RIGHTS" ?
can be interpreted the way you do or the opposite way. I believe your interpretation of that sentence the way you do is the wrong way to interpret it. I try not assume negative motives for people's actions when they can just as easily do the same to me.

beauders said...

Remember that Polanski suspected John Phillips of being the murderer. They didn't know who the murderers were and suspected each other. The Hollywood types and the musicians were scared shitless of each other.

Robert Hendrickson said...

To Many Numbers, MR. Humphrat & Beauders:

Thank you for your GREAT and thoughtful comments. They make ME and others THINK and that makes this website essential to understanding the MANSON mystique. AND without an understanding of ALL the significant 1960s elements - ONE will NEVER understand ANY of what made the 60s so relevant to the future development of America.

bobby said...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0298408/

watched this movie today. Wow. what a diss-appointment