Where have all the good men gone and where are all the gods?
Where's the streetwise Hercules to fight the rising odds?
Isn't there a white knight upon a fiery steed?
Umm I mean pommel horses sure. No worries.
But we haven't had any living breathing equines since the ranch burned to the ground.
Will a Twinkie truck do? I mean look at the driver. Handsome as all get out. His name is Karate Dave but we call him 31 because of the night he bowled a perfect game.
(This post is a collaboration between myself and M.A. Beckham of The Paulcast. Thanks to Matt for entertaining my dumb ideas here on the blog. If you're reading this Sunday, October 10, 2021, and would like to discuss Karate Dave and Jarrett with some of us live, we'll be over at The Paulcast at 1030pm EST tonight.)
In case you're unaware, our Karate Dave candidates were discussed previously on this blog in a much better and more in depth post by Starviego back in Fall 2018. It's been three years and we thought we'd revisit. We also knew you couldn't sleep without a bit of new info, a photo, and the best interview you will ever see with James Region Jarrett. Plus, I could type Karate Dave endlessly and be happy. Karate Dave.
Apologies if the gymnastics photos were indeed in the earlier article as I can't see them anymore. I noticed a photograph or two are possibly missing from the bottom of that post. At least for me.
LFG! Hit 'em with the description, Squeak.
(Fromme Kindle, 259)
Karate Dave was a straight up beast. Chicks dug him. Look at his face in the high school gymnastics photo. Stone cold confidence.
Barbara Hoyt played Ewok Village with Karate Dave behind the Yellow Submarine. Leslie the corpse mutilator tried to throw him under the wheels of Mike McGann's bus. He owned an Indian motorcycle. And like Fromme said above, Dave was trained in the marshal arts.
Jokes. My house is completely made of glass. I misspell with impunity.
Are we solid on who Karate Dave was in real life?
Nope. Sorry. We changed our minds so many times.
Sometimes I lean heavily toward David Ralph Baker but man do James Region Jarrett and Baker look alike. My brain has a hard time telling them apart. Jarrett was busy at the time is one of my larger issues but there is definitely room in his timeline for some ranching.
The family that didn't call themselves a family are as pretty as actors some of them. Why do good looking people mess up their lives? It's like the whole world is set up for them to enjoy.
Anyway, Baker maybe fits the timeline better. Here's a bit of backstory.
Thankfully, a genealogist in his extended family already plowed the heavy snow for us. People are alive out there and we don't dox but Dave's papa was handsome like his boy. A couple of regular Brad Pitt's if you ask me. Dad Baker was born at a Kentucky coal camp in a place that is still unincorporated today. Dave's mom was from Portugal. Later in life, she was the cutest little old lady you ever saw.
Dave would have little problem hanging around with Charlie once their shared Kentucky connection was understood. It's a Highlands thing. I have relatives who are still angry about something that happened in Scotland in 1692. True story.
Baker was engaged to the third girl from the left up there. She earned a bunch of degrees. Her mom or whoever put their engagement announcement into the newspaper busted Dave out on his high school and college and gave us a trail to the photo.
His address in the engagement announcement btw is Camp Pendleton. Summer '66. Three years in the Corps already.
If DRB is indeed our man, Little Paul slyly told us he was a gymnast. Tidbits of truth are everywhere it's true. Read everything. Things get repeated until they're the facts but sometimes they just aren't.
For example, someone with a better search engine than us recently confirmed Dave's military service in the United States Marine Corps. Dave was out in 1966 on a general discharge.
Not AWOL in '69. Repeating that is awful btw when you're not sure.
He was also twenty-three during the time Little Paul is describing. Watkins simply said whatever he wanted and called it a book. Journalists also do that too at every stop along this timeline. Kathleen was twenty-one at the time of her crime? Let's publish thirty.
Garbage in. Garbage out.
This Karate Dave was discharged. Home safe. Finito la musica. I saw his service record and so did others at the blog. I don't know if it's something I'm supposed to share or allowed to share so I refrained.
Baker wasn't over in Vietnam pushing pencils. No sir. Government records show his disability payments.
If you lean Baker, what do you think Dave's actual role was with the Manson group? Head breadtrucker? Was he around solely to make sweet love to Barbara Hoyt in a treehouse and get bit by serpents?
Did you know Dave married a gal who was seventeen in November 1970? Dave was twenty-four and his bride was almost eighteen. If she wasn't almost eighteen that's what I hoped for and told myself. Regardless, they gave it a chance.
Do you think his wife could be a young love from the Ranch who split with Dave after Mike Love refused to shower with Lynette?
Speaking of snakes, maybe young Mrs. Dave watched Charlie touching the rattlers' tails while dancing that one time. There is a world of possibilities out there if you think about it.
Now comes the alternate candidate for Karate Dave, James Region Jarrett.
We want Jarrett to be Karate Dave but have questions like why didn't anyone in the Family and ephemera ever say, "Hey! That guy was named Karate Dave five months ago!" Charlie also surely would've slipped something cryptic in there at least once when claiming to know why the Prince of Portugal has Polaner All Fruit for breakfast every morning and etc.
Would you please pass the jelly?
If you're joining or attending the discussion on The Paulcast tonight, here is a video to watch first if you wish. It's enlightening even if Jarrett says a couple of words here and there that are no longer okay in polite conversation.
The interview is enthralling. Jarrett talks about joining the LAPD after serving in Vietnam at 1:06:32. What do you think about the reason he gives for later leaving the police force? Legit?
Compare the Jarrett in the video to the Jarrett described by the LA Free Times writer. Thanks, Starviego for that amazing pdf link.
Might we surmise that Jarrett's undercover persona is that of an unhinged man but the real James Jarrett is a bit more saavy? Even the hippie press admitted Jarrett showed himself to be kind, patient, and helpful at times. You know I don't bet but if I did I'd wager he was kind around the people he didn't think were commie POS's trying to overthrow the government.
Sandy said she was at war. Jarrett played on the opposing team. Each side calls the other unbalanced. What don't we understand?
Does Jarrett seem like an off the rails sadomasochist here? And why did the journalist use that word twice? Beyond cringe. That level of acute pedantry essentially forces me to root for the cops.
I stared at that photo endlessly while I typed this post. Not sure anything in life is cooler. I want it on a t-shirt. And I do think that's Jarrett if my vote counts.
Actually, I don't care. I just want my shirt.
Those moronic GreenWhite claims are debunked in comments section below.
Bucksnort where I live is the same way. Three total cops if you can believe it and I'm related to two of them. The other guy is a real prick. Anyway, did you know that Calkins and McGann also worked together on a couple of other famous Los Angeles cases?
Bob Calkins says goodbye to evidence and investigations. Highlight: Calkins had Sirhan Sirhan's pistol in his pocket immediately following the shooting of RFK and for the next twelve hours. Sirhan claims he does not remember anything that happened that day and eyewitnesses reported shots from multiple directions when the shit hit the fan.
These were trusted dudes.
Imagine if I told you I recently received FBI documents that describe a secret investigations squad within the LAPD at the time that took on their highest profile cases? That would be crazy, right? I wonder who was on the squad?
I guess we'll never know. Let's get back to the things we can view together.
Baker and Jarrett are one another's doppelgänger. It's crazy. The Jarrett interview was seriously messing with my mind as I stared at his face.
To confound matters, Baker had a sister who looked more like Jarrett than Baker. Check it. She looked like both of them in an Amy Winehouse wig.
But I mean super pretty too. Not like a dude. And not that dudes can't be pretty. Be whatever you want. I'm cool with every pronoun.
GW is always for the underdog.
Jarrett in his interview talks about sneaking up on an enemy machine gun position and tape recording the conversation of the guys inside the bunker. His unit gathered intelligence as part of their regular duties. Here's what the Internet says about them.
By the end of the Jarrett interview he was one of my heroes. Orphaned. Bootstraps. The whole thing. These folks had a different view of course. Lost Boys film buffs will recognize one of the small children in a non speaking role with a gun to his head is indeed Kiefer Sutherland.
Playwright Don Freed from the above link is eighty-nine and teaching online. You can find him if you want to go deep undercover. Here is what the Internet says about Mr. Freed.
All this stuff makes me remember paperback spy novels I'd buy for a quarter and read three in a day. What are your thoughts on Freed? Would Bonnie Tyler hold out for him?
Jarrett looks like the surface level winner of the Hold Out Award but you never know. Bonnie might prefer intellectuals. But then Jarrett also earned a PhD. He listens to classical music and enjoys reading. I wish he'd share his involvement in the Manson theater with us. IG Messages or wherever really.
Imagine Jarrett and Freed waging war as younger men in this modern age via FB memes and blocking one another on Discord? Not as exciting.
What will you do if Schreck, Starviego and sundry others were right all along? Tear your hair and rent your clothes?
I'd like to say again that I do not have a dog in this crazy fight. I'm nothing more than a Gentry typing words while dreaming of my prized vittles each evening. I replace keyboards as I wear them out.
My interest lies in the people involved. Their early foundational years. The character arcs.
The fifty-nine existing Manson theories where every theorist is indeed the correct theorist and the competing theorists from the other teams in and around the Manson business are all a bunch of imbeciles and nincompoops is just not my bag, man. Like Sammy and the Satanists, I'm only here for the chicks.
But I'll also say I viewed some FOIAs this week that make me want to pull my tinfoil hat from the closet shelf I placed in on long ago and dive right back into the madness. It's visceral I tell ya. Holy moly some of these guys. Crazytown.
And don't let me find Calkins' or McGann's names on any secret document regarding any secret squads investigating Geno Massaro and the Manson crew. You'll have to read about it every time Matt lets me post on this historic, vaunted blog.
As I read this post, the phrase "too cute by half" rambles through my head. Over and over.
Baker was engaged to the third girl from the left up there. ...
His address in the engagement announcement btw is Camp Pendleton. Summer '66. ... Dave married a gal who was seventeen in November 1970? Dave was twenty-four and his bride was almost eighteen.
So was Dave Bakeer married in '66 to one woman and four years later is married to another woman?
In response: She married another dude and they divorced a couple years later.
Star, what YORTELSO said. The girl married someone else out west. I can't find anything on a marriage or divorce for her and Dave. One thing we were also unable to find while building our argument is where Baker was and what he was doing from the late summer '66 engagement announcement and the night Fromme and crew met him riding his motorcycle. You have any ideas?
Someone tell Beckham he earned his Zelda badge on his first blog post here!! Truly a milestone.
Beckham is going places imo. I'll still be typing diner menus but hey they usually give me free endless pancakes whenever I stop in so whatever. The absolute crispiest bacon lord have mercy. Little delicious fragmented shards. I have to pay for the bacon of course.
They also squeeze fresh juice there. Night and day difference if you ask me.
If Baker was discharged in '66, why would he tell Fromme and the Family that he was AWOL? And if he really was Baker, why were cops unable to find out his true identity at the time?
There has always been a level of respect between war experience VETS and law enforcement. At times it is concealed.
I notice that in the comments section of the earlier post by Starviego, there’s some dispute over whether that’s actually McGann & Calkins in the photo with James Jarett.
Cielodrivecom says “…McGann and Calkins are not pictured in that second photo… Based on their appearance. Why do you think that’s them?” Was this ever resolved?
I put off reading Squeak's book ,Reflexion, until I found a good deal on the Kindle edition and I'm glad I have it. It's filling in some blanks that I've been curious about for a long time.
Here's an example: A while back, I asked here, how close a groupie Cappy was to Buffalo Springfield, wondering if she'd even met any of the members and don't remember anyone on the blog having an answer. Squeaky says Cappy had a boyfriend who was a promoter for Buffalo Springfield and had hung out with Neil Young.
I really like this book.
Hi, Whut. I like her book too. I think she gives us a peak into the pimping aspect of their sitch via Pete the Pimp and a couple of other good tidbits such as the arrival of Karate Dave.
I've been following your investigation of Karate Dave's identity at the same time I've read Squeak's book and don't know if I've yet read everything she's said about him. I'll have to reread her book to try and sort it all out.
You're getting deeper into Karate Dave than I ever thought about. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, Whut. I appreciate your nice comments. Beckham from The Paulcast podcast (linked in article) has been working on Dave with me. We also pull Patty and my cousin Bunsby into the searches as well lol. It's been fun.
What I like to do with the Manson books is also purchase the Kindle version if one is available. That way I can search inside the text for specific moments and quotes more easily and also make screen caps.
To that, I thought I screen capped the four or five times Fromme wrote "karate" or "Dave" or any combo. When I was writing the post, I felt like one was missing. Please give me a holler if you notice a part, and this good be Sandy or another of Fromme's friends speaking, where Dave is described as having like a "cool confidence" or something similarly written. Gracias in advance. No worries if nothing pops up. I could've dreamed it lol. We were immersed in all things Karate Dave last week.
Sorry. I hate that Blogger still won't let us edit our comments. I am a constant misspell-er.
... there’s some dispute over whether that’s actually McGann & Calkins in the photo with James Jarett. ... Was this ever resolved?
Whats to resolve? If it wasn't Calkins and McGann it must have been their body doubles in the LAPD.
GreenWhite: This one?
PAUL WATKINS, My Life With Charles Manson Chapter 13
"Karate Dave was another “heavy-duty” recruit who... carried himself with an air of cold and utter confidence."
LOL!!!!! yeah that'd be the one.
Apologies. I didn't realize the link to the previous Karate Dave post led right back here. I fixed it.
Blogger GreenWhite said...
Sorry. I hate that Blogger still won't let us edit our comments.
I belong to one huge group on a different subject, that lets members edit their comments for 24 hours. Sometimes I think it's the best thing about the group.
Whats to resolve? If it wasn't Calkins and McGann it must have been their body doubles in the LAPD.
...according to you... but according to cielodrivecom (in 2018), it's not. So, yeah I'd say there's quite a big difference of opinion to resolve before GreenWhite rushes out and gets a t-shirt made of the picture. :-) Despite all the current trends, "research" is fairly meaningless without actual "facts" to back it up... and if two "experts" are in disagreement about something, it needs resolving before it can be accepted as fact.
McGann and Calkins are not pictured in that second photo
Based on their appearance. Why do you think that’s them?
Compare to photo of Calkins and McGann here
I'd say they are the same.
Calkins in not in the photo at murdersofaugust69 either.
I'm surely going to meet someone in a dream tonight named Brownrice who is wearing my shirt.
Wow so I started looking for a photo myself and discovered that like Baker, Calkins also went to San Pedro High School. I've always wondered if we could group people together via their high schools.
His house at the time of his marriage
3706 S Averill Ave San Pedro. Google and Zillow appear to have different photos. Both are nice.
UGH 3707 S Averill Ave San Pedro. Apologies.
Okay so if you look at this photo of McGann
And then compare it to the t-shirt photo
Either there's a toupee involved or that ain't McGann.
It's a shame you did all that work without consulting Vera first.
Sigh and hiccup.
Karate Dave was David William Lipsett, born Feb. 9, 1950, died Dec. 5, 2003. Poor Dave was in and out of jail all the way through two months before his tragic death in Ventura.
No James Jarrett, he, and Baker was a fiction.
This is Calkins
Crowe was shot in July
Thank you and thank you.
Everyone here has my apologies. I'm doubly dumb on this matter actually. After Brownrice mentioned Bo said in 2018 those two weren't Calkins and McGann, I immediately remembered that comments thread.
You shouldn't bother apologising, GreenWhite. Good on you for having the energy to write these posts... they're well written, informative & entertaining. And (especially) good on you for being able to own when you get things wrong (or whatever). Many people just double down and dig their heels in when queried. We're all just trying to make sense of this case and we've all had our fondest theories called into doubt at least once. It's only when we listen to different ideas that we actually grow (I.M.O.). Ironic though that a Manson blog should be more civilised than your average facebook page :-)
Thanks, brownrice. Our country right now at this moment is torn apart by disinfo presenting itself as research. And the rift widens each day. I'd rather try to swallow my pride, learn something, and kick the can down the road.
I now know Calkins and McGann forever. Calkins we could've queried just last year although I doubt he was the talking sort. Sirhan's gun in your pocket for twelve hours following the RFK shooting, the Manson escapades, Hearst. What a book that would be for fans of the time.
Vera Dreiser said....
Karate Dave was David William Lipsett
Lipsett didn't go into the military until after TLB. Yet everyone agrees Karate Dave was a combat vet. So his real name could not have been Lipsett.
I actually just started looking at Lipsett. Does anyone know his unit in the army or any of that good stuff? Vera please consider this a consult.
Yet everyone agrees Karate Dave was a combat vet.
And "everyone agreed" there was a hole in the desert and Charlie could fly.
I've been waiting for a good time to put up this link concerning the hole in the desert.
whut, did you see on that Karate Dave link where they said O'Neill was starting a national chain of Karate schools based on the teachings of Charlie and Bruce Lee?
I love it. Someone please tell them Bruce Lee was Chinese lololololol.
I saw the link shortly after reading that none of the men in Charlie's crew was skilled in the Karate. Beats me how he could teach it if he couldn't do it.
I believe that the link below may be an image of Dave Lipsett c1976
If so, it doesn't appear to be Karate Dave.
Wow really? Just amazing. Buntline, do you remember the first place we saw Tex and Massaro mentioned together concerning this case? I am searching through all my books but can't find it. Or anyone reading this who knows really. Thanks in advance if anyone can help me.
I downvote Lipsett as KD. Central casting did a terrible job choosing him. I can't have this type of sloppiness on my film sets. Time is money after all.
Dead wrongo Greeno.
For so many reasons but mostly because Vera has the social security numbers for all the Family members and associates and the SS number -- and all other stats, in fact --from the 4/20/69 Antelope Valley arrest (and escape) match Lipsett's to a T.
Karate Dave Lipsett was born in '50. Jarrett, like you and he say, '46. He would've been WAY too young in '68 when he was "discharged" to have been a Green Beret AND counterinsugency expert in Vietnam. And, as someone else posted here, there's no way he would've allowed himself to be photographed and interviewed from the early 70s to the late 80's without blowing his cover as "Karate Dave," Manson family member.
Puhleeze, but nice try baby.
He looks like he wants eight year old me to help him find his puppy while eating candy is his van, Vera. I just can't do it. Those eyes are crazier than Charlie's.
I believe this David Lipsett was an early victim of identity theft, and "Karate Dave" Baker was using his SSN/DL, etc. back in 1969.
...and "Karate Dave" Baker and James R. Jarrett are NOT the same person...
...and those two cops in the photo with Jarrett are NOT Calkins and McGann...
Am I the only one who's reminded of an often published picture Dianne Lake when looking at the fourth photo down?
Sorry Dianne, I have a touch of face blindness.
Gorodish said... I believe this David Lipsett was an early victim of identity theft, and "Karate Dave" Baker was using his SSN/DL, etc. back in 1969.
I think this is most likely, because i'm convinced it's not him in the mugshot. Lipsett was posssibly a hanger-on and either Lt Deemer conflated the two men, or Karate Dave used his ID.
As an aside, there was a girl whose birth certificate was used to cash checks at Spahn Ranch. I discovered that she had been in the same school as Cappy Gillies, and the two were still chatting away on Facebook right up until Cappy's death. I'm sure she would have been around Spahn, but I never would have heard of her if not for her birth certificate being borrowed.
Bunt, lately my mind keeps reminding me to make a chart of who went to what high schools. There's gotta be a young love funnel created by a bit older alums and alumnas. What you must mentioned about the checks screams that at me. And plus like Little Paul went back to school and whatnot. I look forward to your comments on here. I'm loving your research skills.
Lipsett looks like a mark. Not a lick of hard in that face.
Gorodish - Hi, there! I've probably read every comment you've posted on this blog a couple of times. It's nice to see you pop up beneath my post.
*just not must ughhhh.
Lately, i've been animating people. Here's KD
KARATE F'IN DAVE!!! Nice work! I'm on MyHeritage and every other site too. Perhaps you are my cousin. What is your hillbilly percentage?
I realise now that my post read as if I needed some skill to do it. I did not.
Try doing that good picture of Kathleen Maddox. Spooky.
It's my understanding that hillbillies are so named because, being of the Ulster Protestant persuasion, they used to march around singing "We are the Billy Boys", in honour of William of Orange. I could be wrong.
I'm on the Ballymurphy side of the Troubles, a Calvinist in Scotland, and a Wesleyan once we got here. I equally do not believe in any of them lol but sometimes the color orange does make me want to toss a molotov into a car with a UDF sticker.
And I'm not even sure why. I've also never made a molotov but I have used a paper towel dabbed against my mower's gas can to start my fire pit many times. I've even yell UP THE RA! once or twice while doing it.
History is weird.
7 Nov 2021
If anyone is on West Coast time or stays up later in other time zones and wants to hang out tonight, I'm a guest host on The Paulcast tonight at 730 pm PST.
My discussion will center on unique perspectives, research methodologies, and cognitive dissonance in the Manson study.
G. Greene-Whyte said...
I saw his(Baker) service record and so did others at the blog. I don't know if it's something I'm supposed to share or allowed to share so I refrained.
Can you send me a link to same? I gots ta know!
Hi, Star. It's not really mine to share. Lemme reach out to the person who owns it and ask them.
Post a Comment