Monday, November 12, 2018

The Coffee Heiress, Part 4: The Estate of Abigail Ann Folger

Other Posts: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Final


1959
On September 4, 1969, Abigail Folger’s father, Peter Folger, opened probate proceedings in the Superior Court of California in San Francisco. Abigail had died without leaving a will. 

1960
Under the laws of intestate succession (no will) her heirs were her father, Peter Folger, and her mother, Inez Folger. Her brother, Peter M. Folger and her half-sister, Elizabeth were contingent heirs, meaning they would not inherit unless her father and mother declined to accept the inheritance. 

Peter Folger, senior, was appointed the executor of her estate and received what are known as letters of administration. An appraiser, Spiron J. Tentes, was appointed by the court to value Abigail’s estate for tax purposes.

Creditor’s Claims 


On September 15, 22, 29 and October 6th a notice to creditors was published in a newspaper called The Recorder alerting any potential creditors to Abigail’s death. The following creditors responded: 

Dr. Marvin Flicker, M.D. 


Dr. Flicker was Abigail’s psychiatrist. He submitted a bill for his services from August 1st through the 8th for $240. The 8th of August was a Friday, as was the first of August. If we assume Abigail saw Dr. Flicker every day as Vincent Bugliosi claimed in Helter Skelter, Dr. Flicker's claim supports that claim. He charged $40 an hour. 

Dr. Flicker’s submission confirms that Abigail saw Dr. Flicker on the afternoon of her death. But it also tends to refute the idea that she was at Esalen or anywhere else in the eight days leading up to her death, except, perhaps, Saturday the 2nd or Sunday the 3rd. Her appointment was at 4:30 p.m. Dr. Flicker’s claim specifically says it is for treatment from August 1-8, 1969. If she was out of town on any of the week days one would have expected the dates of service specified to omit those dates. 

Bugliosi places Manson at Esalen on August 5th.
_____

"On the night of the fifth Manson and Stephanie drove north to a place whose name Stephanie couldn’t recall but which Manson described as a “sensitivity camp.” It was, he told her, a place where rich people went on weekends to play at being enlightened. He was obviously describing Esalen Institute."


(Bugliosi, Vincent. Helter Skelter: The True Story of the Manson Murders (25th Anniversary Edition) (p. 317). W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition.)
______

Aside: Ed Sanders in The Family calculates the date as August 3rd. I tend to believe Bugliosi since his investigative resources were better. 


It is interesting that in the formal court pleadings closing Abigail’s estate where the creditors’ claims that were paid are listed this claim is listed as “medical services”. Perhaps that is evidence of Peter Folger’s efforts to protect his daughter’s reputation. 

Peter Folger accepted and paid the claim. 

Woodside Chapel of Crippen and Flynn


These were the funeral home expenses including the cost to transport Abigail’s body from Los Angeles to San Francisco. They totaled $1,420.86. This claim was also accepted and paid. 

I Magnin


Abigail visited two I Magnin stores in Los Angeles in the month prior to her death. On July 28, 1969 she shopped at the Los Angeles store and on the 29th she shopped at the Beverley Hills store, the same location where Joan Didion purchased Linda Kasabian’s court dress approximately one year later. 

Peter Folger also accepted this claim. 

Pickwick Bookshops


On July 10, 1969 Abigail purchased three hardcover books and twelve paperbacks from the Pickwick Bookshop at 6743 Hollywood Boulevard in Hollywood, California. She gave as her address the home she was renting at 2774 Woodstock Road. If we assume that charges were due within 30 days this may be an indication that on July 10th Abigail did not plan to be at Cielo Drive long after August 10th. The claim was accepted. 

Ah Sam, Holy Cross Cemetery and The Limousine Service


These were her funeral expenses, including white flowers (not yellow) for her funeral. The claims were also accepted. 

Monique Papke dba Revolution Boutique

This shop was located at 8800 Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles. On July 11 Abigail had commissioned several articles of clothing to be tailored by the proprietor for the sum of $540. That would be $3600 today. A letter from Ms. Papke’s was attached to her claim. It appears to the right. Aside from displaying a somewhat insensitive response to Abigail Folger’s death Ms. Papke filed her claim late. Peter Folger denied the claim. 

What is missing from the creditor’s claims is any claim for rent at 2774 Woodstock Road. Abigail probably had paid the rent for August by the 8th. However, there is no claim for any remaining balance on a lease. This could mean that Mr. and Mrs. Schultz, the landlords, simply forgave the debt under the circumstances. It could also mean that Abigail did not sign a lease for any specific term and was a month to month tenant. It is also possible that she paid first and last month’s rent when she signed a lease and the term started in September, 1968. This would tend to conform to the accepted narrative that she and Frykowski came to LA sometime in the early fall of 1968. 

Abigail Folger’s Estate


Below is the complete inventory of Abigail Folger’s estate. 








After the receipt of addition stock dividends and the addition of a small savings account that were not listed in the original inventory a supplemental inventory was filed. Abigail’s estate was worth approximately $408,000. Adjusted for inflation that would be approximately $2.7 million today. 

Included on the inventory are four promissory notes each with an interest rate of 7.5% totaling $8,000 ($2,000 each) loaned to Sebring, Inc. The inventory also reveals that in addition to loaning money to Sebring, Abigail also owned 60 shares in Sebring, Inc. 

Disposition of the Estate


A significant portion of Abigail’s estate, approximately $123,000 went to pay taxes, including estate taxes. Her brother received the proceeds from a life insurance policy (about $50,000), which is not included in the estate total, above. The remainder was divided equally between her mother and her father. The estate was closed in November, 1971. There is no indication in the file why it took two years to close the estate. 








There is no record in the estate file explaining what happened to the Sebring loans. There is no order allowing the ‘sale’ of the promissory notes and they do not appear in the final distribution. The inventory recites that the loans were to Sebring, Inc., not Jay Sebring, personally. If they would have been personal notes the appropriate procedure would have been to file a claim against Sebring’s estate. Since they were corporate loans that avenue was not available. It is possible the notes may have been paid after Sebring’s death by the corporation and simply appear as cash in the estate. It is not possible to track the cash after the estate filing, especially since Inez Folger and Peter Folger waived an accounting of the estate. 

The Sebring notes were due on January 2nd 1971, 1972, 1973 and 1974. This struck me as a little bit odd. Typically, I would expect to see a single note with a payment schedule. However, the notes all have the same due date, January 2nd and the same amount of interest due. That would tend to suggest they were signed separately but at the same time. 

The cover sheet signed by the appraiser states that he valued the assets as of the date of death, August 9, 1969. $15.62 was due on each note. The interest rate was 7.5% per year. That translates to 41 cents per day and means Abigail received the notes on July 2, 1969. 

It is interesting that the loans were not personal loans. If Sebring Inc ‘failed’ Jay Sebring could have ‘stiffed’ his investors. 

Sixty shares of Sebring, Inc are also listed in the original inventory and in the final accounting submitted to the probate court by Peter Folger. However, those shares also do not appear in the final distribution and again there is no record of what happened to them in the file. 

Abigail Folger’s Income

One question that I have seen occasionally is 'what was Abigail Folger's annual income?'

We know that Abigail did not hold a paying job during the year 1969. She was either a volunteer social worker or a campaign volunteer for Tom Bradley. 

Gibbie’s estate file provides enough information to make a rough estimate of her actual income from her various assets. That file contains a request to the court to liquidate stock to pay taxes. The bulk of those taxes are estate taxes. However, Peter Folger also needed to pay Abigail’s income taxes for the year 1969. 








Abigail owed $18,997 in federal income taxes for 1969. From this site, by sliding the dot on the graph it is possible to determine Abigail’s effective tax rate. https://qz.com/74271/income-tax-rates-since-1913/

We know she paid $18,997 in taxes. I moved the slider to 1969 and increased the income to various numbers eventually reaching $275,000. The effective tax rate at that level of 2012 income in 1969 was 43.1%. This also reveals a 1969 income of $43,958. I multiplied that income figure by the effective rate and it generated a federal tax liability of $18,945. That is pretty close to what Abigail owed. That would mean her income for 1969 was about $44,000. Adjusted for inflation that would be about $290,000. But there may be a catch. 

“In general, the final individual income tax return of a decedent is prepared and filed in the same manner as when they were alive. All income up to the date of death must be reported and all credits and deductions to which the decedent is entitled may be claimed.” 


Assuming the tax law was the same in 1969, Abigail Folger’s annual income from all sources could have been more in the range of $75,000 per year (or $500,000 today) assuming the $44,000 was received equally over seven months. Divide $44,000 by seven and multiply by twelve. 

It is unlikely she received a set income each month given that her income was derived largely from dividends, interest and stock sales. While interest income would be consistent, dividends are typically paid quarterly and can vary quarter to quarter. A stock sale could happen at any time.  I believe it is safe to assume her annual income was somewhere between the two numbers or about $50,000 per year in 1969 dollars. 

One of the small assets listed on the estate inventory, above, is a bank account at Banker's Trust Co. in New York. This account may be evidence that Abigail may also have been the beneficiary of a trust fund above and beyond her personal assets. Back in the day Banker's Trust, as the name implies, managed trust funds. If she was the beneficiary of a trust the assets in the trust would not appear in her estate. The terms of the trust agreement would determine what happened to her interest in the trust after her death. It would pass to other listed beneficiaries. 

Abigail Folger was a very wealthy young woman. She certainly had little to worry about, financially.

Pax Vobiscum

Dreath

49 comments:

AstroCreep said...

Amazing work! I loved reading every word of this and find it fascinating. I’d bet that her assets far exceeded Sharon and Roman’s-

Torque said...

Yes, top notch work here again. And thanks for posting the 1960 photo of the girls seated around Abigail at the table--had not seen that one.

Solid deduction on her whereabouts per Dr Flicker's invoice, too. One may well wonder if Abigail ever accepted a paycheck for any of the work she did. Do we know if she was a paid employee at Berkeley Art Museum or the Gotham Book Mart?

That said, I find it so very odd that we basically have only receipts and probate papers to attempt to reconstruct the life of Abigail. Compare what is known about her to what is known about Sharon Tate, and it is like night and day.

Indeed Abigail probably did not need to accept a paycheck, and her financial resources obviously enabled her to move about the country to pursue her goals, whatever they may have been. To me, she was a student of the times, and a correspondant of the culture around her, reporting back to whoever is not known.

What is known is that Voytek kept notebooks filled with notes on his interaction with American culture. I am compelled to believe that similar journals were kept by Abigail.

Should also mention that while visiting the website of the artist Vitold K, I chanced upon a photo of the artist, displaying paintings against the split rail fence at Cielo. With Vitold in the photo was a dog--clearly a dalmatian to me--that must be none other than the elusive Tom, Abigail's dog.

ColScott said...

The thing I always failed to grasp was why her family essentially ceased addressing the matter publicly after the arrests. I never came across any mention or anything. Doris, Patti and Orca constantly pushed for Sharon to be remembered. Folger not at all.

This is a strong article.
Was Sebring a personal loan? Because there would be no one pushing to collect it at the point of Jay's demise

David said...

Torque said: "Do we know if she was a paid employee at Berkeley Art Museum or the Gotham Book Mart?"

Yes, she was an employee of both. She was not a paid social worker but a volunteer.

Col Scott said: "Was Sebring a personal loan?"

Yes, the Sebring notes were from Sebring Inc. to Abigail. I am not a probate attorney but they would have been assets of her estate, are listed as such and were taxed as such. Peter Folger could have collected them according to their terms but the estate was closed before they became due. Since there was no 'accounting' of the estate there is no record in the file what happened to them (or the Firebird for that matter).

It is very odd how the family chose to address this. In Part 1 there is a reference to an article written about Inez Folger shortly after she passed away where a friend describes her as being very open to discussing the events surrounding her daughter's death.

There was also this comment posted to an NBC breaking news in August 2014- the comments are no longer available :

"I knew Abigail Anne Folger’s (one of the five people killed by followers of Charles Manson at the Los Angeles home of actress Sharon Tate) mother, whom everyone knew as “Pui.” She told me how horrible it was when having to identify her massacred daughter. As any parent would be. More unsettling was describing her brief appearances at the Manson trial. While she never spoke to any members of the clan, she knew everything about them when she would have the bad luck of looking into their eyes. What she saw was the consummate definition of evil incarnate.

“While time has a way of softening unpleasant events, it does nothing of the kind when you have come face to face with deadening horror. I will take those eyes with me to the grave.”

This says she attended the trial. It was my understanding that Peter Folger is the one who went to LA to retrieve Abigail's body and Polanski's business manager ID'd the bodies except Parent.

There is also a memorial fund to her at the Santa Catalina School for the library but that is all I have found.

AstroCreep said...

David- I would guess that the Folgers would talk privately about the events and tragedy but also have to publicly protect their brand- if people (customers) keep associating Folgers Coffee with Abigail’s death and the Manson Family, people would stop buying it. Might also be why her estate wrapped up so quickly- get it off the public radar quickly to protect the brand.

That’s not being insensitive, that’s being a realist and also one of the reasons AF had the financial independence that she did... Because of the brand that the Folgers built and maintained.

David said...

AstroCreep said: "Might also be why her estate wrapped up so quickly"

My only exception to your comment: August 27, 1969 to September 7, 1972 isn't quick, even if you use the final distribution in December 1971.

But you could be correct. I think there may be another reason, in part. While I don't come from her kind of background I have been around some who do quite a lot. It surprised me over the years what happened 'emotionally' within the families to former spouses, tragic deaths of family members and the like. It almost seemed as though they disappeared to the point they never existed. And while my sample is not statistically valid I have been surprised at how uniform the reaction was in the several families. It was once explained to me when I asked the matriarch of one such family that 'such matters are private' and 'there is no reason to dwell on such things'.

AstroCreep said...

I just read an article describing the small fortune and 3 attempts by Folgers to bring what became the flavor crystals to fruition in 1968- I’m not sure how successful Mrs. Olsen was at selling these by 1969 but Folgers was likely still trying to recoup its losses.

Charlie shoulda invested all that other people’s money in Proctor and Gamble- woulda made a fortune and no more dumpster diving.

Robert C said...

David said " It surprised me over the years what happened 'emotionally' within the families to former spouses, tragic deaths of family members and the like. It almost seemed as though they disappeared to the point they never existed. "

Stiff upper lip, taking a practical approach. But the pain of it all hurts as much as it does to anyone else.

What was Gibby's relationship with her parents and family in general ? Did I miss that somewhere in the reviews ? I'm obviously curious if it affected her family's response post-mortem.

David said...

Robert C,

You have not missed anything. The evidence I have leads me to believe she was very close to her mother and not close to her father or step mother. This was likely due to his affair and child with her when she was only a few years older than Abigail. Her half sister would have been 8 when she was killed (if I did the math correctly) and I have found little connection there, yet. She appears to have been close to her brother, who is quite close with the half sister so that may be an indication.

Torque said...

David,

Yes, no doubt Abigail was very close to her mother. If we look at Abigail's billing address on her I.Magnin account, it is the address of her mother's apartment in San Francisco. This would be the apartment Mrs Folger moved into after her divorce.

I have also read a newspaper article, where Abigail's step mother was interviewed(source eludes me at present, sorry). In it she said something to the effect that "we did not know" about Abigail's association with Sharon, or the fact that she was living at Cielo at the time of the murders. The "we" here arguably refers to both Abigail's step mother as well as her father. For certainly Inez Folger knew of Abigail's living situation, as she phoned Abigail at Cielo around 10:00pm Friday Aug. 8th.

Also, yes, I am aware that Abigail worked at both the art museum and the book mart, but am not aware that these were paid positions for her.

David said...

Torque,

Sorry for the poor communication. I believe those positions were paid as there is another newspaper article that eludes me right now but may be in Part 1 that quotes both 'bosses' as describing her as an employee and in one fellow employees describing her as an employee. I can't imagine why they would do that if she was a volunteer.

The article you are referring to is 'Heiress' Search for Life Led to Death'. It will be in the next part. It also notes that Abigail's mother joined her at Sebring's San Francisco opening- sort of suggesting step mom was fibbing- I don't believe she was.

Peter said...

Hey. That's my gag.

PeterSeptember 5, 2018 at 4:55 PM
If he they had invested that $7,700 in Philip Morris instead of dune buggies in 1968 the Family would be worth over $51 million today.

I bet they're all kicking themselves over that.

Doug Smith said...

Many many kudos for your hard and dedicated work compiling this incredibly important and interesting information for all of us - I can't wait for even MORE too! What fabulous riches are to come?!?!

Logan said...

David, as I wrote in the last installment, I absolutely love your Gibbie series. She had such an interesting life. You do a great job of illuminating aspects of her time on earth which are disregarded or seen as insignificant by other sources. I wonder if she knew Saul Bellow.

"Lost", "She is dead", "Void"...quite callous of Mademoiselle Papke indeed. I love that the shop was called the Revolution Boutique. I'm reminded of the Tom Wolfe essay "Radical Chic: The Party at Lenny's."

Something I wonder about...does the psychiatrist/patient confidentiality pledge extend posthumously? It seems like anyone interested in the "drug" angle of these murders could learn a lot from her psychiatrist. Perhaps he is just a decent guy & doesn't want to blab on the details of the private life of a murdered patient (seems like a bad business practice for a psychiatrist, anyways).

Another question: At any point in this series, do you intend to write at any length about Voyteck & Gibbie's stay in Irving, Texas during their cross-country trip? As I am originally from the DFW area, I think it'd be interesting to learn more about that event, if indeed there is any extant information about it.

David said...

Logan,

The privilege survives death (assuming it operates like the attorney-client privilege) and assuming someone asserts it. That fact would give Dr. Flicker pause. I reached out to Dr. Flicker. He did not respond.

I'm not sure you would learn anything drug related from Dr. Flicker other than her use and frankly I would not have asked if he had responded. I doubt she 'confessed' to him.

Although I have chosen to avoid the drug issue there is very little evidence of it-outside personal use. I originally wrote a section of this post analyzing the cash- follow the money- but decided against going there. The likely 'suspects' exonerate her- Doyle et al. I will say this: there is nothing unusual in her cash if you assume the income projection and track P&G dividends.

There is one interesting report from the murderers. The problem for me is it comes from Atkins. She claims that when she took Abigail back to her room to get her purse Abigail said something like "This is all I have. I went to the bank today." which raises an obvious question: why would Gibbie have less cash after going to the bank given the source of her funds- checks.

Yes, Ms. Papke likely lost her claim because of the comments. Peter Folger could have waived the late filing and paid it.

SPOILER ALERT!

There is nothing about the Irving Texas visit that I could find. I even sent a couple FOIA requests that came back empty. If, perhaps I had a lead on who the alleged 'dealer' was I could have better luck. But remember, a 'dealer' to the cops could be a friend back then- cue the Steppenwolf.

The next post is the last. I don't control how/when posts are posted- well, I abdicated input on that on purpose because I tend to write them in spurts. I leave it to Deb and Matt to decide what goes up when, otherwise in small doses I could monopolize the posts and then go 'dark' for awhile. I think they do a good job.

Thank you and you, too, Doug, for the comments.
______

Peter,

What would Kasabian's 5k in Proctor and Gamble circa July 1969 be worth today?







Doug Smith said...

$334,932??

Can only go back to July 1970 $1.47/share
Yesterday
$93.47/share

Peter said...

But if you reinvest dividends it would be considerably more than just increase price per share. But that's over 50 years they would have to wait. What they should have done is buy a McDonald's franchise.

AstroCreep said...

Peter- 100% your work. I was expecting someone to call it out- Hahahaha

Peter said...

Like Rick Moranis in Ghostbusters.

"This is Charlie and Squeaky Manson. Charlie owns a small carpet cleaning business in receivership and Squeaky is drawing a salary from a deferred bonus. They have $10,000 left on their ranch at 12%, so they're ok."

StillGrooving said...

I hope all of you bloggers in California are safe from the flames. Tragic situation.

Torque said...

I'm curious if anyone has attempted to research Voytek, as a means of obtaining a more clear portrait of Abigail. (Of course, a study of Voytek himself would be immensely important, but for the purposes of learning about Abigail, it may prove revelatory).

The little I have discovered about Voytek on the Internet is written in Polish(which I don't read or speak), but we do know that he wrote to his mother and communicated how he felt about Abigail: namely that although he loved Abigail, he would not marry her because she was wealthy.

We also know that Voytek maintained detailed notebooks about his interaction with American culture. Could these also reveal information about his relationship with Abigail? Do we know the whereabouts of those notebooks today? In LAPD custody perhaps?

Two other individuals also factor in very closely with both Abigail and Voytek. This would be the artist Witold-K, and Billy Doyle. As I mentioned previously, I have reached out to Witold-K, and he responded to me. Unfortunately he did not provide any information, and was unwilling to post photographs.

Billy Doyle was interviewed by LAPD in Toronto a couple of weeks after the murders. The tape recording of this is readily accessible on the Internet. Do we know if Doyle is still alive, and is there a way to contact him?

Meantime I'm attempting to contact a couple of other individuals who may possibly be of help in this area. Provided I successfully locate them, and even if they do possess relevant information, it's up to them if they would be willing to share what they know.

ColScott said...

5 Things I do not Believe

- The last meal was at El Coyote
- Abigail looked up from her bed and waved at Katie
- Voytek was surprised
- Garrettson heard nothing
- Charlie came back to the house


In other news I am reading Olivia Hussey bio. Lots of Rudy Altobelli and Christopher Jones. Anyone interested in a Col analysis?

Torque said...

Yes, I'd personally be very interested in a Col analysis. I'll also say again that I find it extraordinary that nobody in that house did not hear intruders come in through the front door and rough up Voytek, etc.

That Garretson heard nothing is of course also continually difficult to believe. Susan did say that she saw a "hunting dog" looking in at her through the picture window in the living room. I've always been under the impression that this was Rudy Altobelli's dog, Christopher. If true, how did Christopher get out of the guest house? Could it have been that Garretson let him run out, or perhaps when (or if) Bill himself split out the back door?

ColScott said...

I meant analysis of the book.

I always believed Garretson thought the people on the front house were freaking. He heard fucking screams, was high, had just gotten a Steve blowie and was scared. So he adjusts the volume, lalalal I heard nothing.

CarolMR said...

"Anyone interested in a Col analysis?"

Yes!

David said...

Col. Scott said: "Abigail looked up from her bed and waved at Katie"

"Sadie"

Col Scott said: "Voytek was surprised...... Garrettson heard nothing"

Add the Steven Parent gunshots no one heard and to me it means there was noise, music on in the house or both houses. Stir in the ruckus in the living room no one heard and it seems to me there has to be. Just an opinion.

Orwhut said...

Off TOPIC
"Hunting Charles Manson" is available today for download, from Bookbub. I believe the price was $1.99.

Panamint Patty said...

$1.99 is probably too much to pay for that Helter Skelter rehash.

iamthewalrus said...

Check out 5745 72nd Ave SE Salem Oregon. Its Bobby's wife's house. Her kids sold it this year. I have always wanted to see inside it. Lots of good pics. Off topic but fun to look at.

Orwhut said...

Hi Panamint Patty. I seldom pass on a Manson book for $1.99.

Panamint Patty said...

It's okay. Stoner is quoted in it! Haha no really

Orwhut said...

In the next book, I want to see a quote from Panamint Patty.

Dan S said...

Worst air quality in the world here in sac.

Dan S said...

Voyteck wouldn't marry her because she was wealthy? What planet is he from?

Matt said...

I've said it before. Frykowski was a poor businessman. Instead of selling drugs he should have been poking pinholes in her diaphragm.


Orwhut said...

Then instead of suspecting MDA dealers we could suspect pin dealers.

beauders said...

Today is the 40th anniversary of Jonestown. It was an interest in Jonestown that led me to the Holocaust and then on to Manson. It wasn't how the press presented it. Most of those people had injection marks between their shoulder blades, a place they couldn't reach, it was forced on them. Also 308 of the victims were babies and children. Another 300 were elderly and infirm, many confined to beds. No one could get out of there because they were in a jungle 125 miles from civilization. They were trapped, as well because a bunch of Jones' true believers ringed Jonestown with rifles. 80% were murdered and 20% were true believers and took the potion. Jones was a coward when he saw how his people were dying ---cyanide poisoning is painful and slow---he had his nurse shoot him in the head.

starviego said...

I heard many of them were also shot to death.

beauders said...

As far as I know only Jones and his nurse Annie Moore were shot but not all the bodies were autopsied. Actually I think only eight or nine were autopsied because the bodies had been lying in the jungle heat and humidity and some had to be shoveled with snow shovels because they were so decomposed and rotting.

beauders said...

I grew up in the Bay Area and am not surprised that the Folgers were very quiet about Abigail's murder. Her just being in Los Angeles hanging out with Hollywood druggy types would be embarrassing enough. San Francisco society is very snobby and insular. For those on the east coast I hear Boston snobbery and San Francisco snobbery is similar.

grimtraveller said...

Dan S said...

Voyteck wouldn't marry her because she was wealthy? What planet is he from?

A planet where a man had some pride and didn't want people looking at him doing very little with his life beyond getting wasted and pointing and saying "he married her for her money and he doesn't even get to control any of it."

Doug Smith said...

Devil's Advocate here - what if he felt that despite her wealth and, apparent difficulty establishing herself/forging her true/desired identity/path...that she was okay to sponge off/sleep with/network in her circles...her bloodlines and wealth was "beneath" him as a "person of the people/artist/hipster" to consider MARRYING.

Not my way of thinking/acting in my life but kind of like a role reversal for the scenario of the bored wealthy socialite who takes on the gardener as a lover but not as a husband. Maybe she realized they both had nothing but the same endgame in mind for their future. It was just a shallow, skeletal nothingness that had run the course for both.
And, Abigail could revert back to someone like Flicker who was more her pedigree and comfort zone.

That was pretty hard to relay without being crass and to the point...lol

Trilby said...

Torque: Doyle is alive (or was as of a few years ago, when I attempted to contact him.).

Dan S said...

Instead he rode polanski s coat tails and dealt meth. What a man.

grimtraveller said...

Do you know that for a certainty ?

Dan S said...

Nay. Just trash talking the dead

Dan S said...

And the idea he's too proud to be with a rich woman

grimtraveller said...

I meant about dealing meth. In fact, actually dealing at all, as opposed to intending to get into the market "as a supplier of quality goods."

GreenWhite said...

This series is wonderful. Great writing as always. I like that you're approaching subjects that have be rehashed to death from a different angle. Feels fresh and I appreciate you for it. The loans to Sebring are interesting.