Tuesday, April 1, 2014

No Hypocrisy Here...

An interesting fact is that one of the people running Manson's ATWA group works for one of the largest known polluters of our landfills, trash on the roadside etc. Not to mentioning the world's largest purveyor of processed, fatty, sodium-laden unhealthy food!


DebS said...

Star might talk the talk but she sure doesn't seem to be walking the walk. Isn't she an avowed vegetarian, too?

Matt said...

Supersize it!

Unknown said...

Matt, Thanks for posting this here for me. I feel it prudent that everyone knows the full truth. primeministeroftheunderworld.com

Suze said...
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Suze said...

I'm lovin' it!

Matt said...

You're welcome Ben! Thanks again.

mrgroove said...

She's working to help the planet by destroying global corporations from the inside. One Big Mac at a time.

Matt said...


Jason said...
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Mr. Spudnut said...

I see Star has a job and is contributing to society, unlike her mentor. Good for her! How do you pollute a landfill? That's what they're there for. LOL

Patty is Dead said...

Theres nothing in Corcoran but fast food, a bar, a dairy farm, four churches an a big ass prison. If she must live near Charles, there arent too many ways she can support herself. Sell acid, maybe. LOL

AustinAnn74 said...

Manson's new name for her: McMuff

orwhut said...

I like their fries.

Ajerseydevil said...

My guess Star is a vegetarian she sure doesn't have the fiquer of a McDonald's customer And we can't really knock her for making an honest living Beware of upsetting her to much she may well be a Reincarnation of Sexy Sadie "Lol"

starship said...

ok, I smell something fishy here. What's the deal with this picture? The circumstances surrounding it? Why would she have posed for it?

Is she the manager? Is the hat she's wearing a different color from the other employees? What does her nametag say?

Is that even her?

Suze said...

Well, that's her real name on the name tag. Looks like one of those cheezy employee of the month pictures. Or maybe she is a manager. If you stay employed there for six months you probably have enough seniority to qualify.

Anonymous said...

How is that hypocritical? Have you been to Corcoran?? There isn't exactly a booming economy with tons of job opportunities up there unless you work for the prison or are a farmer.

And I know that as obsessed and knowledgeable as the members of this blog are about all the tiny details of the topic, that everyone is aware that Star came to California and got a job at a "fast food" restaurant; why are you suddenly calling her hypocrite now? Did you think that she worked at a fast food restaurant that DIDN'T sell meat? I'm not even sure that McDonalds does sell meat, that in itself is debatable.

I give the girl total credit for coming halfway across the United States on her own, getting a job in a town where there are no jobs unless you want to be a prison guard or a farmer, and managed to support herself and make it work.

She applied for several jobs when she got to California in 2007 and it took a few months before McDonalds had an opening (which should give an idea of the job market in Corcoran), of course she would take the job and if you were in her place and had half a brain you would have done the same thing.

I don't think that it makes her a hypocrite to ATWA if she is around a hamburger. I think it makes her a hypocrite if she eats one. Vegans are more concerned with the killing of the animal for human ingestion, profiting off them is a whole different issue.

This whole thing is petty and ridiculous and was instigated by someone who claims to be on Charlies side and support him and yet makes his living off of the man's underware and shower shoes. The same dude that seems to be very jealous of Star, apparently wishes he were Charlies girlfriend. I can't think of any other reason that he would go after her the way that he does. She doesn't bother anyone and doesn't take part in this kind of crap. I've met Star and she is a sweet, gentle person which is why I'm taking it upon myself to educate you all to the facts, and point out how stupid you look.

Patty is Dead said...

nobodys lookin stupid, friend. Patty appreciates your input.

Anonymous said...

Oh and I forgot to mention that she quit that job in 2010. The exact dates were July 2007 thru March 2010.

Anonymous said...

Peppermint Patty, Ben G. looks like a total idiot in my eyes. Talk about hypocrites. He talks to Charlie and says he's sorry for bashing Star in the past and here he is back at it, in calling her a hypocrite when taking a job ANY job was a necessity for her survival. And everyone here who is being Ben's little cheerleaders by rah rahing his claims inadvertently looks stupid as well.

Unknown said...

I completely understand the fact that there is NO work in Corcoran. How about Hanford where the world is your oyster? No big deal......

Unknown said...

I agree..... Best fries in any town for fast food!!

Unknown said...

I don't have ANY problem with Star. I just find the entire thing to be a bit contradictory to ATWA. I do give her credit for finding any job in that dust bowl!!

Unknown said...

Yes it's her. The name tag says Afton, and I'm sure it was just a photo for Charlie since it came out of his cell.

Unknown said...

You are correct. I just don't have a photo of her in her Taco Bell uniform to show a current photo. I give her credit for at least working like everybody else.

Unknown said...

I do completely agree about the job. And to clarify the pollute a landfill. I meant that it is one of the largest corporations in the US, and one of the largest contributors to the landfills. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

Matt said...

She works at Taco Bell now?

Unknown said...

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. By the way I NEVER talk to the old man about Afton or Craig. Only after the Rolling Stone interview. Thanks for your input though.

Unknown said...
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Unknown said...

Charlie knows my true feelings about both, and he respects them as I respect his friendship with them. He may not agree with mine, as I always don't his but such as life.

Unknown said...

Everybody has the right to their own opinion. I wouldn't throw stones in glass houses however when you don't know all the facts. Afton and Craig had absolutely NO problem attempting to throw me under the bus in the Rolling Stone article and it backfired. And if you think I make my living off selling the Old Mans underwear you are certainly off base and your post truly shows your delusional. The only thing I sell is CHARLIES new album The Lost Vacaville Tapes, and various items from guitar strings, stamps, poems, and yes UNDERWEAR are included in the Limited Edition Albums. You should really get your facts straight before casting stones.

Unknown said...

If you would like some of his undies, you can always pickup a copy of the album at primeministeroftheunderworld.com or at Amazon.com

Unknown said...

I am 99.9% positive of it.

richko62 said...

Maybe a better title for this post would have been: Ironic

Terrapin said...

In my opinion it sounds like Ben, Craig and Afton are all competing to be Charlie's number 1 girl. But, as its already been pointed out several times, 'everybody is entitled to their own opinion'.

TomG said...
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A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

First of all, isn't working ANYwhere better than being a lazy welfare-handout beggar? I admire any young person who works a manual-labor job these days, instead of sitting on their butt collecting "benefits" that are extorted from we taxpayers. Kudos for holding down a job, Star.

My kids both work at Pizza Hut, among other jobs. Pizza Hut serves dead animals as a topping to their pizzas. However, I would rather the young folks be working instead of being useless unemployed slugs sucking at the public tit.

Second of all, didn't you once promise that you'd not "out" Manson Circle members by publishing their addresses or places of employment, which might endanger their families and livelihood? Star has never been convicted of any crime, so why is her place of employment being broadcast?

I truly hope this enterprising young woman, who works a job when so many people sit on their ass and collect entitlements, does not lose her employment because of your publishing her photo clearly dilinating her employer and workplace.

Shame on you.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...
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A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

And Gurecki, you are a lying liar when you say that the only thing you buy and sell is Charles's record album.

You bought many things from me -- letters, art, a guitar -- all monetary proceeds for which I have donated to ATWA and other animal rights or environmental causes.

Star is actually working for ATWA. What have YOU done for the environment lately? All you do, as another poster said, is profiteer from Manson memorabilia.

Evil Liz crew, why do you pander to this jerk, and his unjust war on one young lady who has never done anything to him -- except refuse to sell him memorabilia? Stop that!

Robert Hendrickson said...
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Unknown said...

A.C. I have never purchased a damn thing from you. I applaud her as I already said for having a job in the first place. You have NEVER received ONE penny from me, and the only interaction I have ever had with you is when you screwed Hooker out of all of his art, and everything he sent to you. He is now paroled so he can get his stuff himself sooner then later. Thanks again for your somewhat slanderous commentary. Again stated everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if you can prove that I EVER purchased ANYTHING from you, I will send you double that cash in return. Lies don't work here, truth, and proof might tho. I have plenty from David that I could share with all about your antics but I have not. SHOW ME WHEN, AND WHAT I EVER PURCHASED FROM YOU. I can clearly show everybody what you kept from David, after making him empty promises.

Unknown said...

I doubt that!!

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Nice way to misdirect, Ben. Worthy of a con. Perhaps you'll end up in a cell in Corcoran yourself, some day soon.

Part 1

Where shall I begin? Well, if loyal readers will take a peek at my Facebook profile, they'll note that the guitar I am holding is the same one as on Ben's "Underworld" website, only prior to having the tape removed and the signature revealed. This should prove that the guitar was in my possession first. In Ben's photos, the tape was removed, damaging the paint but revealing the signature.

Technically, no, I did not sell anything other than the guitar directly to you, Ben. I sold items to your intermediary, who is nearly as oily as you are, whose initials are JMJ. He then inflated the price and sold it to you. His deal was taking care of Charles and Hooker, and my concern was raising money for ATWA, to finance the legal paperwork and website.

Prisoners can make donations to charity. ATWA, as a registered legal charity, qualifies. Preliminary work for incorporation of same is included and is legal. Prisoners cannot outright sell items. It is considered profiteering from their crime. That is not legal. However, if a buyer wishes to donate money to a prisoner, that is his or her own business. Ben's intermediary promised to take care of Hooker. If he did not, I have no way to force him to do so.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Part 2

Prisoners can make donations to charity. ATWA, as a registered legal charity, qualifies. Preliminary work for incorporation of same is included and is legal. Prisoners cannot outright sell items. It is considered profiteering from their crime. That is not legal. However, if a buyer wishes to donate money to a prisoner, that is his or her own business. Ben's intermediary promised to take care of Hooker. If he did not, I have no way to force him to do so.

The drawings that are a collaboration between Charles and Hooker, including the ones with runes, the dark/angel crow, and the one of Manson's head called "Open Your Mind", depicted on Ben's website and in the "Vacaville Tapes" liner notes, were originally sent to me, with the instruction that 1/2 the proceeds would be donated to ATWA, and that 1/2 the proceeds would go to the buyer. We used them to make posters, as well, long before their sale to Ben. Photos of these posters are on the Manson Art website.

If the buyer refused to donate anything to the prisoner, that is out of my control. Ben's intermediary buyer refused to even reimburse me for shipping and insurance on a spider. It follows that said buyer may have stiffed the prisoner, as well. After all, he is one untrustworthy SOB.

Over time, the proportions of what was designated toward ATWA began to be less and less, until it was zero. Way to screw an elderly artist out of his donation to a charity that is dear to his heart. Friends do not do that. I stuck to the original arrangement of 50% of the proceeds being donated to ATWA. I did not take anything from anyone. In fact, I also sold a great deal of my own collection to another, reputable, honest buyer, who donated ALL of the proceeds to ATWA, except a small fee for handling and shipping. These items were my own property, gifts from Charles.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Part 3

Now, Ben, as for you "applauding" Star -- having her name and workplace revealed to the general public, against her wishes, is far from showing approval. Star used your first name only in the Rolling Stone interview, only after you'd repeatedly slandered her online. You implied that she'd stolen items that you'd sent to Charles. She had nothing to do with Charles's wheelchair being confiscated -- that was the whims of the CDC. When an item is confiscated, it is sent home to family.

Collectors are probably salivating, since Charles being sent to the Hole again means a whole 'nother crop to harvest. All of his possessions are confiscated and mailed home at family expense. Most items cannot be sent back to the prisoner. Family can store them, or sell them, or set fire to them. The prisoner sent to solitary must begin all over. Family must purchase all new items, including expensive clear TVs and radios, guitars, and so forth. Selling older items offsets this expense.

Star hadn't mentioned you at all prior to your insulting her publicly, Ben. You have also made other accusations against her on other sites. She responded by discussing something that was TRUE in an interview. She did not print your address, workplace, and so forth. In reaction, you have now endangered her by publishing her legal name and workplace. If that's admiration, she could use fewer admirers.

And Ben... Rather than send me double the cash, please make a donation to an animal shelter or environmental protection charity.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Part 4:

"The only thing I sell is CHARLIES new album The Lost Vacaville Tapes, and various items from guitar strings, stamps, poems, and yes UNDERWEAR are included in the Limited Edition Albums."

Ben Gurecki has several things for sale on his "Underworld" website, separate from the album, that are from Charles Manson or are Manson related. Just look.

"He (Hooker) is now paroled so he can get his stuff himself sooner then later." He'd better start with JMJ, then. As for any implied threat to me and my family... bring it.

A.C. Fisher Aldag
52188 - 30th Avenue
Bangor, MI 49013

It's the white farmhouse on the corner of 52nd, with the red barn, tire swing, and all of the gun barrels sticking out the windows.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Part I lost track:

From Facebook:

Ben Gurecki
February 18
Well I'm down to the final 40 copies of the LIMITED EDITION, Charles Manson albums "The Lost Vacaville Tapes" they can still be found at primeministeroftheunderworld.com or Amazon.com. There are some other nice items listed on my webpage that are up for sale also.

From a post here:

"The only thing I sell is CHARLIES new album The Lost Vacaville Tapes, and various items from guitar strings, stamps, poems, and yes UNDERWEAR are included in the Limited Edition Albums. You should really get your facts straight before casting stones."

Yet you call STAR a hypocrite...

Unknown said...

AC, I NEVER purchased ANYTHING including that guitar from you. It was purchased from The Mayor "Bill" from Indiana. I knew where it came from, but how dare you say I purchased it from you directly. And you are damn right it is the same guitar that was in my album, purchased from someone other then you AC. I'm done responding to reduclious alligatuons that you can't back up. If you have a problem with JMJ, who IS my friend, you should probably bring that up with him. All I know for FACT is that I NEVER ONCE purchased anything from you!!

Unknown said...

Once again AC, I have NEVER purchased one piece of art, guitars, string art, or so much as a piece of dirt from you PERIOD!!! These may have crossed thru your hands, but NEVER was a transaction done between the two of us.

Unknown said...

AC, there are some facts here that you are off base on. 1. If you look at the photo all it shows is her first name on the name tag, she has not worked at McDonalds for a year or two now, so what is different from me posting her first name, and her putting mine in Rolling Stone? Secondly as far as the wheel chair is concerned you really need to get your facts straight because I have my recorded phone call from CM asking me to ship the chair directly to Craig & Afton once we found out his doctor was going to do nothing he said he was going too. You can believe what you want but I can also post photos of where the wheel chair shipped. It originally want to Corcoran for two weeks, and then CM asked me to send it to Craig & Afton. You don't know what is said in my personal phone calls with CM. As far as the vultures, I sure do hope that I get the guitar he had in PHU since I purchased it, and it took quite a bit of time to get such an expensive into CM's hands. TRUE was not the word I would put on that interview either. The phone calls I have here between CM & myself I would consider true, the conversations I had with Erik from Rolling Stone PRIOR to the interview because CM wanted me to feel him out are facts. Each and every one of those FACTS are recorded, and I'm done with the topic period. I also don't owe you or anybody anything, especially you double of anything, because again as I stated, I NEVER PURCHASED ONE THING FROM YOU!! And may I also add that I have done more for Hook then you EVER have.

Unknown said...

Star is not only a hypocrite, she looks like a fool, along with her old ass live in partner Craig. Say what you want about me AC. I don't pretend to donate to orginizations especially ATWA (Since this funds two peoples life, and does NOTHING for my friend). I work to hard to donate to causes I don't find fit.

DebS said...

Ben did not leak Afton or Craig's names, they did that themselves when they filed for non-profit status for ATWA. Please look up ATWA at the State of California charitable organizations website.


The only thing you need to fill out on the form is to put ATWA in the "Organization Name" field and hit search. Two ATWA's will come up, one is Sandy and George's ATWA which is now defunct. The other is Afton and Craig's ATWA which is current. Click on that and at the bottom is "Related Documents" whereby clicking on "Founding Documents" you will see all of Afton and Craig's info including their address.

I would like to note that the only income they have claimed for the ATWA non-profit is $400. in 2011. Really??? The way ATWA is being presented, someone would think that they are actually doing some good things for our planet when in fact I can not see a single charitable contribution from ATWA towards the betterment of our earth. Yep, there are plenty of links at the website for suggestions to cut down our carbon footprint but these are just links, anyone can compile links on a website.

Where is the work that ATWA has done? Do they sponsor a community garden? Do they buy trees and plant them with the proceeds from the non-profit? Does ATWA contribute to saving the wild mustangs and donkeys in the desert? Does ATWA do anything at all, save for the feathering of Charles Manson's bed and perhaps supplementing Afton and Craig's own income?

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Fine, Ben. You've never bought anything directly from me. Which is kinda knit-picky, like saying "I've never bought anything from the Ford Motor Company" when you actually buy from a dealership. So, your minions bought stuff FOR you from me. THAT makes is so much better. The point I was making is that you regularly buy Manson memorabilia and you DO re-sell it on your website. You are quoted on this very page as saying the only things you sell is the music... that is NOT true.

What you're trying to obfuscate is that you sell Charles's personal items that are seized when he goes to SHU, and you re-sell them for a whopping profit. Then you have the nerve to criticize Star for working a regular-guy job.

I'd sure like to know what charities that you do contribute to, when you're profiteering from someone you call a friend.

You also have the unmitigated cojones to say that you admire Star, in this smarmy little self-serving manner, and that you've NEVER truly outed her, when you have printed her real name and current job on several websites and in social media online, including your own Facebook page.

I'd thought that against Evil Liz et al's policy. Apparently not.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

"I sure do hope that I get the guitar he had in PHU since I purchased it, and it took quite a bit of time to get such an expensive into CM's hands."

Are you listening to yourself? Wow.

"I sure hope Dad dies soon and leaves me the farm." :-(

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Deb S., the average person reading a Manson website would not know how to find that information... nor would they know the founder of an organization's place of employment. Nor would they necessarily connect it to a magickal name... which is why some people use pseudonymns in public.

You're perhaps accustomed to the level of Evil Liz group sleuthing that ferrets out this personal stuff. Yet Insane Online Stalker Crazed Fan prolly would not have figured it out on their own. Which is why Evil Liz USED to have this policy of not publishing Manson Circle members' personal information... especially those who have never been arrested, let alone convicted of a crime.

What does ATWA do? Well, ATWA is a grass roots networking group that presents information to the public, has dialogues with individuals who are performing Earth-friendly acts within their own communities, protests anti-environmental policies in government and in corporations, as well as trying to develop, patent, and market Charles's invention, the Savior. As for the day-to-day workings of that project, I imagine that involves research teams and trying to make the seed balls not stick in the paintball guns. Which probably involves calibrations and extruders and such things. I don't know everything that the NRA or Republican Party or the Celtic League does with my donations, either. None of these people let me anywhere near their money, as I would just lose it in a Chinese restaurant. (People that know me are laughing hysterically. No, we never DID find that $100. I think it got fried in a vegetarian eggroll!)

Anyway... Two very valuable things I've learned from this experience:

1.) "And may I also add that I have done more for Hook then (sic) you EVER have." Right. Which is why he and I are no longer together. I found that Hook wanted someone he can exploit for treats more than he wanted companionship and a relationship. So very glad THAT's over.

2.) This is why I always use my real name for everything, and don't try to hide my identity. Sure, there are crazy stalkers who try to undermine people... like, for example, Ben. Rather than hiding from them, which as this column proves, does not work... it's best to meet them head-on.

DebS said...

A.C. I'm not sure if your comment about the average person reading a Manson website was meant to offend the majority of readers or not. I do not know what kind of information your local news puts out about non-profits but mine, here in California, provides links to government websites so that people can check out a non-profit where they are considering making a donation. Afton and Craig sought the non-profit status and as such laid their personal information out there for anyone to see. There is nothing sneaky or dishonest about the Manson Blog allowing this type of information to be posted on the blog. It is prudent to check out a non-profit before making a donation. Please, let us know if ATWA actually accomplishes something worthwhile.

PS I know where my donation to the NRA goes because they provide that information to their donors and to the general public.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

I don't see why it would be offensive, Deb S. The average person reading a baseball website wouldn't be able to find the contract with the players' full legal name and address, either. Yet it can be found by someone who is really looking.

And I KNOW the place of employment isn't on the ATWA paperwork. That was provided solely by Ben.

When the NRA says, for example, a certain amount goes to education... what exactly does that mean? Office supplies? Gun safety teachers' salaries? Brochures? SeewhutImean?

DebS said...

Afton's place of employment was not "leaked" by Ben. That information was posted by Michael back in August of 2011 at Cats. Post #33


What Ben did was provide a picture of Afton in her uniform. She has provided plenty of pictures of herself over the past few years. Do the clothes make the difference?

The NRA seems to report their donations whereas ATWA seems a little behind in that department. I guess a non-profit doesn't need to say what they are doing with their donations if they underreport them.

Anonymous said...


A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

Yeah, well, exposing Star's place of employment was a douchebag thing to do. Period.

Unknown said...

Thank you for pointing that out. AC has just got her hemp undies in a bunch. ATWA brain dead!!

Unknown said...

What ATWA does is take donations from people, claim to help my friend, then live off that money themselves. Bring back Sandy to run ATWA, then it would be a legit non profit. At least it would go to help my friend because she would do without before she let CM go without like the current faces of ATWA

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Soooo, THAT is what the argument with Star is about. I see. It's all:

"I do more for Charles monetarily than YOU do or than SHE does." Big dicking on a financial basis.

Trying to buy Daddy's love. Right.

So, you'll publish her real name, and place of employment, and hope some insane stalker harms her.

Ben, would you like it if someone did that to one of YOUR kids?

And before one calls someone else "brain dead", one should learn the difference between thAn and thEn.

Unknown said...

I'm done with you AC. I have no more energy to waste on a waste like you. Think what you think, I know the truth. You really are a waste of everyone's time!! Enjoy

maudes harold said...

Never in a million years could I have ever foreseen that 35 years after I first discovered this case that I would now be reading the exchange that I am reading here between 2 Manson fans/friends/exploiters. Never.

Only Hollywood could have Spahned this.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

It seems easy for Ben to bully little girls, such as Star and Noel X., but not so easy for him to stand up to someone his own size... figuratively speaking.

"He (Hooker) is now paroled so he can get his stuff himself sooner then later."

Golly, yet another lie... David Hooker has NOT been paroled.


Name CDCR # Age Admission Date Current Location Map Link
HOOKER, DAVID WARREN J88593 52 12/18/1995 Corcoran

This is the CA inmate locator. It is easy enough to use. Try it yourself. Google California Inmate Locator, try typing in Manson's number, which is B33520. It will say his name, age, date of incarceration, and location.

Because the state of CA sometimes lags behind, (as they've done with reporting contributions to ATWA), not keeping up to date with publishing public records, I called and checked. David Hooker is still incarcerated in Corcoran, NOT Paroled. And you can do same.

Folks, for your own protection, don't have dealings with this person, Ben Gurecki. Lies, threats, and publishing confidential information on the Internet. You don't need that.

Evil Liz crew, please stop giving him a platform!

Matt said...

AC, I consider you my friend so there's no malice in what I'm about to say:

If Star gets on national TV (which she has done more than once) as well as allow herself to be interviewed by Rolling Stone and says she lives in Corcoran and that she works in fast food then she outed herself. Not anyone on this blog, or Ben G.

I also hope the DB word was not directed at me.

Matt said...

BTW, I'm certainly not putting her down for working fast food. It's an honest living and that's what counts. I respect anyone that pulls their own weight. I just find it ironic that the self-proclaimed voice of ATWA works for a major league polluter and purveyor of unhealthy food. Not to mention meat (pseudo-meat, anyway). In my case it's not any kind of personal attack. I am just amused by irony.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

OK, using that logic...

Linda Kasabian has also been on national TV numerous times and in major media. Recently, she appeared on a orune-time news program. Kasabian also chose to use a pseudonymn and to not reveal where she works. (IF she indeed works -- more likely she collects welfare -- if so, she declined to reveal her local DSS office, or where she cooks her meth, hahaha!)

Kasabian also is currently under a pseudonymn here at Evil Liz / Manson blog.

The Evil Liz crew knows where Linda Kasabian lives and what her real name is, right?

Linda Kasabian is more of an accessory to murder as Charles Manson. Linda sat there in a car, doing her nails, humming a song, as her pals butchered a pregnant lady... and went back for a second helping the next night.

Star has never broken the law, been arrested, let alone been convicted of anything.

So, the Evil Liz crew chooses to reveal Star's real name... not blanked out on her name tag, and her place of business, because they're in bed with a cheezy memorabilia collector. But the Evil Liz crew won't reveal Kasabian's current alias or hometown or place of employment. They're afraid Kasabian might get stalked.

How about it? You're willing to out a young woman innocent of any crime, who chooses to use a pseudonymn and not reveal her place of employment. Sooo, kindly tell use the current legal name, hometown, and place of employment (or county welfare department) for the drug hag and murderess calling herself Linda Kasabian.


If the douche fits, wear it.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

That said... argh, once again I am having to explain simple economics to a bunch of college liberals, and why capitalism is a GOOD thing.

Blaming Star for working at McDonald's is like blaming coal miners for working at polluting jobs... like the refinery that caused the recent spill that despoiled West Virginia's entire watershed. This is not the miners' fault. This is the corporations' fault, somewhat. Or is it really? Perhaps its the consumers' fault. More about this in a moment.

One of the functions of ATWA, which Deb S. asked about, is to disseminate information about companies and industries that those businesses would rather you not know. The idea is to influence supply and demand. If more people realize that meat is bad for you -- raises cholesterol, poisons you with steroids and pesticides, gives you cancer with growth hormones, releases greenhouse gasses -- then those people are less inclined to purchase meat. A few people might be motivated by sympathy for the animals, but most people are self-centered, and will not be concerned for the environment unless it's put in terms of > greenhouse gasses = hotter summers and droughts. So will stick with meat makes you fat and die sooner. Thus, ATWA is a consumer information non-profit as much as an environmental charity.

If people stop purchasing a product, companies produce less of that product. < demand = < supply. Com'on, college liberals, I barely scraped a B- out of economics class. Surely, you get this.

Twenty years ago, McDonald's did not offer salads and vegetarian alternatives. Now they offer several varieties of salad and breakfast items that do not contain meat. Burger King actually sells a garden burger, and has for at least ten years. They did not do this out of a golden concern for our planet in their dear little hearts. They do this because it makes money. > demand = > supply.

Another thing that some ATWA participants do is protest these companies' policies. Twenty years ago, McDonald's packaging was made from all styrofoam and plastic. That crap will be in landfills when our grandchildren have grandchildren. Currently, McDonald's uses renewable, biodegradable, recycled and recyclable packaging. Why? Consumer pressure. So many people bitched, and stopped buying... McDonald's was forced to comply. Did people know to just do this? NO. Environmentalist groups' information TOLD them.

Protest includes legislation, or putting pressure on our representatives to pass laws that affect product manufacture. If it's illegal to sell burgers in styrofoam packaging, and you get fined each time you do so, you stop. Not, ATWA isn't doing this, to my knowledge. But I am!

Back to our coal miners. Enough people will (hopefully) get hosed about their water being only useful to pave their driveway instead of for showering and drinking, that they will call for more regulations on the coal industry. Unfortunately, this means companies close, which puts more American workers on welfare. Which we Republicans do not like. Sooo, instead, we must invest and develop new industries, in solar, wind power, hydro-electric, geothermal heating, and so forth. Which means, attracting more young people to technological jobs. Which means, they will work making solar panels instead of mining coal and working in fast food restaurants.

I want to point out that this all became apparent to an old redneck with no education in the 1960s...

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Argh, hate that Blogger can't be edited once posted.

Prime time and Kasabian is more guilty THAN Manson, not as.


Now, what can you college liberals do for your environment? Put your money where your mouth is. Ben, you can start, since you have more money than sense... invest in green businesses and industries. If you DO eat fast food, demand healthy alternatives. Buy green products for your home, including your heating systems. Initial investments are high, but you can save big bux in the long term; as an example, I saved $4K just this winter with my low-polluting furnace that burns waste wood, rather than buying propane. Buy digital recordings and books, or go to the library. Buy products with recyclable or bio-degradable packaging.

And if you REALLY want the young people to have good jobs rather than fast food or coal mining -- First, vote for candidates that kick all the illegal alien invaders out of this country and second, invest your retirement funds in local green manufacturers! This creates jobs for Americans.

Matt said...

Thanks, AC for setting this college liberal straight on Keynesian economics. I'll be forever in your debt.

The fact remains that you can't out someone who is already out. A simple Google search reveals NEWS stories using her given name, parents names, place of birth and other information that I could give a rat's tail about. It doesn't take any skill.

In bed with a cheezy memorabilia collector? Excuse me while I finish laughing. Star has put herself in the public eye. Her story is so bizarre that it's become a circus freak show. Even an accepting college liberal like myself has to stop and shake his head.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

The place of birth is wrong in the articles, the home town is wrong, and Ben was the first to give Star's actual current workplace, on his FB page.

Actual hard news journalists respected her wishes for anonymity.

Now, won't you feel bad if someone with a grudge against Manson waits outside her workplace, and tries to harm her?

Or not. Seems to be more concern for the murderess Kasabian. Isn't the rationale of Evil Liz that you'll not publish Kasabian's hometown, or Catherine Share's, or Steve Grogan's, because someone might harm them?

Wasn't there a huge outrage when Grogan's pseudonymn was connected with his legal name? Right.

Ben's only reason for outing Star is because she refused to sell him memorabilia... which is why he uses middlemen. Nobody in the ATWA circle will deal with him, because he is dishonest and a vulture.

Ben is also a raging hypocrite for stating that he's all down with ATWA, (the concept, not the organization) but he does not use his website to promote any environmental causes or distribute pro-ecological information. Instead, he claims he doesn't sell anything other than the music (for $70, on vinyl) but if you look at his site, there are several items on there for sale. THAT is hypocrisy.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Sooo, I did as you suggested and looked up on Google, trying to find Star + her real name + Manson.

So, now the Evil Liz blog, who won't "out" a convicted murderer, is on the same level of journalistic integrity as the sleazy lowlife "National Enquirer" who not only published her real name, but the parents' names.

I doubt they actually interviewed the parents. The part about bearing his child is an outright lie, as Star has professed a desire to not contribute to our planet's population explosion.

The Enquirer is a tabloid newspaper that regularly reports on what Hollywood celebrity is sleeping with whom and "aliens stole my two-headed baby" -type stories. Nice.

Certainly not something I would call NEWS in capital letters.

The other person who "outed" Star is Michael Channels, another collector who has a mad-on for Charles's dear friend in general, and ATWA in particular. He violated confidentiality to do so. How about I publish his kids' addresses?

OK, you know I'd really not do so. Why? Because it is a rotten, awful, DOUCHbag thing to do, endangering people like that.


DebS said...

AC you seem to be totally ignoring the fact that Star and Graywolf "outed" themselves by filing for the non-profit status for ATWA. THEY opted into a government tax deductible program that publishes the address and phone number of those operating it. THEY bring attention to themselves by promoting ATWA. You have to know that much of that attention is going to be reacted to negatively simply because Charles Manson is the headliner of the ATWA organization. Star is going to be scrutinized because she has chosen to align herself with Manson and she has made herself a public figure, seemingly enjoying that "celebrity status". It is naïve of you to believe otherwise.

If you feel a need to cast blame put the blame squarely where it belongs, into the laps of Star and Graywolf who seem to want attention as long it is not negative.

Sorry, people who make themselves public figures don't get to dictate how the public perceives or reacts to them.

Suze said...

Matt & Deb, why are you trying to reason with her? You would have better luck reasoning with a table. She thinks Manson is not responsible for the TLB murders. Someone once proved to the group that she is a racist. This is someone who was ceremonially married (polyamorous, no less) to a convicted murderer she met while visiting Manson. She is as looney as Star.

ColScott summed her up nicely:


Suze said...

Speaking of that post at the Col's site if you read the comments you will read where AC says,

"A new book is coming out by Nicholas Schreck.* Much of what he writes will say the same things as Charles has told me... yet Mr. Schreck has the time, energy, resources and effort to back up his statements.".

So Schreck is accurate? I see that the crew at this blog checked that book against the facts, proved he is completely full of shit and backed it up with documentation. (NICE JOB, BTW!!!)

I think anyone who believes Schreck has lost all credibility.

Unknown said...

If Ben Gureki heard Star fart he would blame her for pollution

Unknown said...

Richard Bell seems to speak out of his ass as well since he knows NOTHING about facts here. Why don't you just shut your trap, and go back to your mental masturbation session. Idiot!! Afton & Craig are to blame for more then you will EVER know!!! No biggie, Craig will soon be in jail, and Ms. Burton will have to figure it out!!

Anonymous said...

I want to go back to AC's comment here - "First of all, isn't working ANYwhere better than being a lazy welfare-handout beggar? I admire any young person who works a manual-labor job these days, instead of sitting on their butt collecting "benefits" that are extorted from we taxpayers."

If you don't work you can't collect unemployment. If you don't pay into SSI you do not get SSI benefits. Food stamps benefits are smaller now and hardly survivable on. This aint England there is no dole to live on. Maybe if your pregnant, female with children can you live off taxpayers but most poor people either struggle to survive or work. There are no handouts just given to lazy people, you sound like a republican

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

Richard Bell: Hahahaha!

Bob: I AM a Republican. How many "poor" people have you actually known? They can collect up to $2,000 per month in handouts, NOT including health care and rent. Here in MI, where there is a lower cost of living, that is a princely sum, more than many workers earn. SSI is for handicapped people and you needn't ever have worked to collect it. This includes "emotional illness" as well as legitimate handicaps. There is a local family, one mother with 4 kids, who receives $900 / month in SNAP / food stamps. Really, WHO can eat $900 per month worth of food? Again, much more than working people spend. I would rather young people emulate Star and WORK.

Gurecki: Star and Grey Wolf are to blame for you not getting more memorabilia to sell. Sour grapes.

Matt: (I'm assuming) Great photo!

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

AC I have known many a poor people and the only poor people I have know who got aid consistently were single mothers with children. My mom was on welfare and fought to get us out, we left hud housing behind and she started her own business.

When I was a young adult I was poor, I was on foodstamps while working at (can you imagine?) McDonalds because I still fell under the poverty guidelines. In fact all my friends were pretty poor. I got below 100 dollars food stamps a month, mcdonalds only offered half price meals and I lean vegetarian so no help there. In fact every time in my life I was on food stamps they never lasted the whole month so I had to get foodboxes at the end of the month just to survive.

I know what SSD is, I am recovering from an injury and starting the process. Even if I am approved it can take over 2 years to get approved. As a 40 something who lost his job and insurance due to an injury this is grim news. I am struggling to survive after working full time for nearly 10 years and now barely able to work two days a week.

How many poor people do you know or do you just judge them from afar?

Every poor person I knew in my youth busted there ass to get out of it and all of them succeeded minus the few who lost themselves to addiction. I was very poor as a young adult and I knew no one reaping from the welfare tit.

Like I said females with children can but it's not a good life. We lived in hud approved apartmens when I was young, riddled with filth, meth, creeps and worse. My mom busted her ass to get us out of there. I was living on hamburger and canned veggies not what ever it is you imagine it to be.

This family you claim gets 900 a month in food stamps, that may be true but they must qualify for many different programs to get such great benefits and it is not the norm.

As an old punk rocker I know many poor people to this day and it is not an easy life. Also, every poor person I knew worked or tried to gain employment when they weren't working. Life on government benefits is not a good life at all.It's depressing and makes one feel hopeless.

In fact it stresses me to the point of tears because I make more money working than I ever could on SSI/SSD and the thought that this is my future is almost unbearable. I cannot fathom trying to pay rent and live in this city on that low of an income. My future facing these so called "hand outs" looks very grim, not like I won the lottery at all, quite the opposite.

Go figure you're a republican because you can't see the forest from the trees...

Suze said...

Very well articulated, Bob. Given that it comes from personal experience it carries even that much more weight. God bless you. I hope things improve for you quickly.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Suze!

The good news is, the lawyers don't get paid unless I am awarded my SSD claim and also at anytime during the process if my situation improves I can stop the whole thing and get back to working.

I'm starting it to prepare for the worst but I have not given up hope things may improve.

Anyways, funny AC questions how many poor people I know as I face being poor for the first time in a long time and I am honestly scared.

Oh well. We have to roll with the punches and learn to adapt, am I right?

OK, bye.

Trilby said...

You know, I read about half of the comments and was so pissed off I typed a big, long post which mercifully got deleted in error. I think Deb has made all the salient points anyway. Then, I read the other half of the comments & got twice as irritated. A.C., I never really agreed with your opinions but I always want to be aware of all viewpoints and information - so I enjoyed reading all your posts and thought you were a decent and forthright person. But your arrogance here on this thread is astounding and disappointing. On another blog I read, someone posts under the name: "Bulldog Fart" & everytime someone posts something beyond the pale, Bulldog Fart's posts say, simply & eloquently: "Poot. Poot." Sometimes a particularly aggravating post, "Poot. Poot. Poot." So, applying the wisdom I've acquired from Bulldog Fart; on this thread & all others pertaining to "Atkins Lite" - I say: "POOT. POOT. POOT. (poot)."

A.C. Fisher-Aldag said...

You'd said SSI, Bob, not SSD, which requires that you work and become disabled to get benefits.

I watched many so-called poor people sell their children's food stamps to buy drugs. And I've watched many people work very hard at two or more jobs, and pay taxes on order to support lazy people, illegal aliens, and women with six kids by five babydaddies who live in comfortable apartments with free heat, free food, free medical care -- living better than working people.

My husband and I are both disabled. We bought insurance so we would not end up poor. My husband with his shattered leg still chops and hauls and splits and loads waste wood for our heat. We both garden -- I am nearly blind. So I don't wanna hear cheezy excuses.

My point is that Star is completely undeserving of criticism for working. It is better than taking handouts from people. I wish more young people had her tenacity.

Anonymous said...

AC I am applying for both SSI and SSD as I am eligible for both in my situation.

Your judgments are outstanding. If someone has 5 kids by five different dads they probably have many problems and aren't living an amazing life.

Also I gave no cheesy excuses. I managed to get one job with my injury and continue looking for another. I don't want disability I am just being realistic.

IF your husband can hall and chop would, by your reasoning he is well enough to work and doesn't deserve disability. I don't want to hear any cheesy excuses.

Also, FYI I worked from the time I was 16 and continue working until this day. It took me most of my twenties to work up from the bottom of the kitchen jobs up the line and get out of the poverty range.

Most people work. You just sound bitter and jealous.

Anonymous said...

Illegal aliens, you mean the backbone of every kitchen I have ever worked in. Picking fruit for pennies on the dollar compared to jobs we take?

As for selling foodstamps they are now used via a credit card system and not really sell-able. Sure you could take your dealer shopping which I have witnessed happening a few times in my life living poor but it's far more annoying for both parties to deal with then repubs want to admit and really only happens once or twice at best before the dealer says "I don't need no f**cking pop tarts I need some money."

Also, just because you and your husband can do so much doesn't mean everyone with a disability can. Also, I doubt you have as much compassion as judgement as I sense you don't by disability for the mentally impaired either.

Feel sorry for Charlie not the mom who has no means of support and the father of her child left her alone. Yeah that makes sense...

Doc Sierra said...

OpenID Bobby said...

Illegal aliens, you mean the backbone of every kitchen I have ever worked in. Picking fruit for pennies on the dollar compared to jobs we take?

As for selling foodstamps they are now used via a credit card system and not really sell-able.
A few years ago some scummy looking couple offered to sell me their food stamp card along with their PIN number while I was walking from my car to the entrance of a grocery store so they are sellable.
I'm not even going to debate the naive stereotype about illegal aliens. All I'll say about the subject is that there are good people AND bad people of every type.....

Unknown said...

I really do love that there photo of you Afton. I have PLENTY more that I will be sharing on a weekly basis. You better keep those fingers up. (They certainly must stay up longer then Craig does) :-))

Unknown said...

I wonder why the fake X on the forehead changed to a fake star? That thing has changed color, and appearance three times in a year. Goofy..........

DebS said...

My daughter and I went through the McDonald's take-out window and I gave the clerk a $5 bill.
Our total was $4.25, so I also handed her a quarter.
She said, 'you gave me too much money.' I said, 'Yes I know, but this way you can just give me a dollar bill back.
She sighed and went to get the manager, who asked me to repeat my request.
I did so, and he handed me back the quarter, and said 'We're sorry but we could not do that kind of thing.'
The clerk then proceeded to give me back $1 and 75 cents in change.

Do not confuse the clerks at McD's.

Patty is Dead said...

Mr. Patty has a stomach bug. This evening Patty told him to eat the canned soup in the cabinet, because it's high in sodium ("electrolytes") that he needs to replace. She added that when Patty was a kid, being sick always made her want McD's, which made him want McD's.

Patty had a happy meal with my pretty pony in it and Mr. Patty had a strawberry shake with his qtr pounder (burp). Sometimes there just aint nothing better than the ole pink slime.

Tony Sperl said...

You have to be insane to eat at Mickey D's. I once ate at the McDonalds in Beverly Hills with GG ALLIN, he ordered "ESCARGO" (Snails) or as he called them "MCSLUG". GG though "CHARLIE" should have been in his band. RIP GG.

Matt said...

That's something that should be on YouTube. GG Allin in a McDonalds ordering escargot. I'd take the time to watch that.

maudes harold said...

"Patty had a happy meal with my pretty pony in it and Mr. Patty had a strawberry shake with his qtr pounder (burp). Sometimes there just aint nothing better than the ole pink slime."
ROFLMAO!!! Sadly, ain't it the truth!!

AndyHunt said...
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AndyHunt said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AndyHunt said...

*I messed up my first comment above and deleted it, which left the second making no sense...here are both, corrected*

Ben Gurecki "I wonder why the fake X on the forehead changed to a fake star? That thing has changed color, and appearance three times in a year. Goofy.........."
It's like the power bars on a mobile phone. When its swastika they plug her into the mains.

On the subject of Maccie D's, as we call them here in the UK.
The first branch was opened in the UK in late 70's. It was just across the road from the swimming baths my Father would take myself and my sister to every Sunday Morning. The First week they were open he took us for a meal, as a treat. His reaction, which he tells everyone to this day (bearing in mind my father was in the merchant navy for 24 years)
"Ive eaten every kind of food, and drank every kind of food, from everywhere in this world...the closest I've been to that was falling over whilst cleaning the bilge tank of a water tanker, in the Gulf, in 100 degree heat"

Just to add bit of balance, I also love their strawberry milkshake...but that is all.

Unknown said...


For starters I myself use to work a McDonalds. I never intended to knock someone for making an honest living. I truly am proud that Afton went out, and got a job rather then live off the state. I just wanted to make the point that McDonalds was, and is one of the largest contributors to our landfills today.

As far as the constant change of the sharpie on the forehead, you seem intelegent enough to already know the answer to that.

Matt said...

For the record, I too worked at McDonalds.

Robert Hendrickson said...

Well ! the numbers don't LIE: McDonald's Hamburgers sure was POPULAR (103 comments), BUT what do hamburgers have to do with a CULT and ritual killings. This one had me stumped until I realized that had the good folks in the TATE house encircled the house with hamburgers that fateful august nite they would have REPELLED the evil "vegitairian" CULT from even entering their fully protected home.

Does that seem obsurd?
Back in the day, part of the establishment's "deprograming" process was to feed deprived deciples PROTEIN.

AndyHunt said...

Robert Hendrickson said...
"...had the good folks in the TATE house encircled the house with hamburgers that fateful august nite they would have REPELLED the evil "vegitairian" CULT from even entering their fully protected home."

Bars of soap would probably have done a better job.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

Your just and idiot. I don't know what else to say Afton!! And to anyone who reads this that is not a carving nor a tattoo, I don't care what anyone says!! Even if I am wrong, it makes you MORE OF AN IDIOT, but I'm not wrong.

Runic@California said...

Ben Gurecki is like Kurt Cobain he is always shooting his mouth off

Mr Lovely said...

She isn't very bright; Listen to her talking and you will see that she isn't a psychopath, she's just someone who doesn't have a very good grasp of what's going on around her. It is worth nothing to point out any hypocrisy on her part; it's like calling 12 year old a hypocrite. You are missing the point, which is there is no point here, who cares what the nearly octogenarian Charles Manson is doing. There are a lot more important causes to busy yourselves with if you care.

Unknown said...

“The Lost Vacaville Tape’s”