Saturday, July 2, 2016

Honesty.... Who does it apply to?

Los Angeles District Attorney Jackie Lacey

Los Angeles Times reporter Matt Hamilton recently wrote an article calling out LA District Attorney Jackie Lacey for being dishonest in her letter to Governor Jerry Brown regarding Leslie Van Houten's parole.  Article

An excerpt from the article-

In one part of the letter, Lacey took issue with how Van Houten described Manson: as a “myth” and “caricature of horror.” Such otherworldly or exaggerated language indicated she had no understanding of the magnitude of her crimes, Lacey wrote.
According to a transcript reviewed by The Times, the “myth” and “caricature” labels for Manson came from Van Houten’s replies to questions about how other people viewed Manson or if his name “invokes fear in people.”
There are other examples in the article which you should read, least I write something that could be taken out of context!

This article brings up something that I have commented on in the past.  Shouldn't the District Attorney and those representing the DAs office be held to the same standard that is expected of the prisoner at a parole hearing?  If the prisoner is expected to be honest and forthright, why is it that the DAs office is allowed to stretch the truth?  Aren't they setting a terrible example for the prisoner?

We saw this same behavior often with Patrick Sequeira who inexplicably vanished from the DAs office shortly after a hearing for Bruce Davis when was granted parole by the board.  

Additionally, there were a couple of letters to the editor that express some of the same sentiments regarding the honesty of DA Lacey.

Here is a copy of the DAs letter to Governor Brown, included in the letter was a photo of Leno, Rosemary and Cory LaBianca.


Unknown said...

I'm not sure how honest convicts are at parole hearings. I'm also not sure the point at a parole hearing is to set an example for the convicts completely.

But the DA office should absolutely hold itself to a higher standard.

i understand using everything you have to keep them behind bars. Except lying or cheating.

Happy 4'th weekend everyone!

Farflung said...

Honesty should include a bit of preemptive full disclosure.

Van Houten's lawyer did a couple years in prison for armed robbery. What has he done to make things right with his victim(s)? Is he contrite, or blaming others for his downfall?

The onion continues to be peeled.

Robert Hendrickson said...

Is this for ME Deb ? Cause I'm already on fire with the LaBianca Case. Now Loretta Lynch's
sista says: for the "sole purpose of KILLING the occupants inside."

BUT Steven Kay (an honorable man) said for "burglary / robbery"

NOW, if that seems like an insignificant "mix-up" for YOU, this website is probably NOT about finding the TRUTH for YOU.

Actually, if the Supreme Lawyer of the Land (Loretta Lynch's) story of meeting her buddy Bill for ONLY a 30 minute discussion concerning THEIR Grandchildren makes sense to YOU, maybe our entire "Hang'em High" judicial system makes sense to YOU.

PLEASE don't get ME wrong - IF Leslie invaded MY home to ROB it - SHE would NEVER leave it ALIVE, but what we are dealing with here is the once GREATEST and most honorable NATION on earth - turning into a "Land of Lies."

Last night there was a program on television showing how - the once GREAT "counterfeit" capital of the world CHINA - is turning into an actual "counterfeit" culture - in respect to EVERY aspect. From the "wallboard" they make to "baby milk' for THEIR own children - it's ALL contaminated / poisonous.

Awh, the "lies" just keep on com'in and the Liers just keep on cum'in ! BUT lawyers don't actually LIE - they practice the LAW.

DebS said...

Robert, no, I did not post this specifically for you. I posted it to highlight the double standard that seems to exist. Apparently it's okay for the head DA to misrepresent what took place in Leslie's parole hearing to the governor. I think that's wrong.

David said...

If the sole purpose to enter the house was murder as now admitted by the da maybe she could get a fourth trial.

She also apparently didn't do her homework. "Pigs" on the wall.

And 'no' they shouldn't misrepresent the facts, especially a DA.

Manson Mythos said...

Well don't forget, a district attorney is still an attorney. But it's funny how one of the "Manson killers" and her attorney are doing everything the right way, while the good guys are pulling every dirty trick in the book and being deceptive.

You have idiots in control of peoples lives today. Patrick Sequeira was a bumbling idiot.

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY SEQUEIRA: But, you know, you're talking about some serious want ads, you know, personal ads regarding spanking of women, bare bottom spanking, seeks bare bottom -- I mean, there's just -- and there's, actually, also there's a song written by Nancy Jo Pitman, another Manson Family member, for Charlie Manson, and it says, all things must die.


They want to the inmate to stick to what they call the record, but then Steve Kay would come around with nonsense out of Sanders book.

Notice, Leslie's attorney simply requested the Watson tapes. It ended with a letter from the supreme court (!) about how Manson had complete control over these people, the motive was Helter Skelter and in a nutshell, that's that.

He didn't question the motive though. So why volunteer all of that? They basically exposed their own fears and confirmed that California is trying to hide something.

But here is an interesting twist. We have a black district attorney lying and twisting truth about a white female to keep her locked up in the same state a rich black man nearly beheaded a white woman in the "other" crime of the century. So much for white privilege.

Patty is Dead said...

Dennis, patty is not positive but someone using your user ID said to "fuck mansonblog" in the tlbr chat last night. Do you know anything about that?

sasha11papers said...

I wonder if this letter was written to appease opponents of LVH's release. After all it is not much of a political risk to the DA to write this letter. Also, saying LVH still sees Manson in "mythological" fashion is really a stretch.

Manson Mythos said...

I never said anything like that.

Manson Mythos said...

louis365: fuukk Mansonblog

Not me.

Not me. I said some people here are idiots, and I stand by that. But I also think a lot of people in that chat room are idiots who I don't get along with at all. said...

Dennis, Lacey didn't write this

Manson Mythos said...

Didn't write what? said...

This letter

Robert Hendrickson said...

I THINK CieloDrive is right, BUT she signed the letter / document - which is strictly intended to KEEP a woman in prison AFTER decades of incarceration. As a minimum, I would hope the "writer" merely intended to help Ms Lacy learn how to do her new job more effectively.

There is so much convoluting of the FACTS in this letter that I am beginning to realize just how so much of history is based upon fanatical "imagination."

I actually had to STOP reading the letter at:
"Victim SHEA was targeted to protect Charles Manson and the other members of the Manson Family so they could rule the world AFTER "Helter Skelter."

This does NOT coincide with the actual "written" Appealate Review, but one could also say that: Bill Clinton met with one of HIS lady friends, the U.S. Attorney General Lorretta Lynch, just hours before the F.B.I was to interrogate Bill's wife regarding one of HER alleged CRIMES. The motive being to make sure Lynch would NOT permit the F.B. I. to indict Hillary - thus preventing HER from taking over the White House - so that BILL could resume HIS "protected" preying upon young government INTERNS in that glorious WHORE House once painted "Anti-Black."

Unfortunately, ALL of this dishonesty is slowly infecting our otherwise envious culture that we have enjoyed for so very long.

In the Middle East, such 'dishonesty' has reached the point where lying about EVERYTHING is simply a "way of life" . AND so NOW, when EVERYONE lies, it is NO longer "lying," but considered everyday conversation.

There is even a new religion where the worshipped Gods are "Talking Heads."

George Stimson said...

I think that public officials (elected or otherwise) or members of the news media who intentionally lie to or mislead the public should go to prison -- but that's just me.

Manson Mythos said...

If her signature is on it and it comes out of her office, it might as well have been written by her. Actually, it might make it all the more worse that she didn't write it.

It's funny though, a lot of the people I know or know of who are more on the side of the Manson gang are liberals to the point of almost being Marxist. But this should be a wake up call to them, that democrats will always take the same stance against them as republicans. They just look at it from a different perspective.

Actually, it's funny when you listen to both sides argue against them:

Conservative: Charles Manson was a hippie who wanted to slaughter whites and blame blacks to cause chaos in society!

Liberals: Charles Manson was a white racist who wanted to blame blacks!

Farflung said...

It's good to be king, or at least president.

When a self directed government endorses lying via a Faustian bargain, there should be no surprise at the result.

Clinton's 98-99 impeachment included the charge of perjury, for denying sex with an intern, under oath.

The house voted for impeachment for this "slam dunk" violation. The senate didn't agree and acquitted.

Release the rationalizations!

Don't most Europeans do this?

What's the big deal? It's only a BJ.

Gosh, if you can't get blown as the prez, what's the point of being one.

He's done so much good, why do this?

What's good for the Captain, is good for the crew. Where does one reserve any outrage about government deception after the above event passed without so much as a wimper?

"People get the government they deserve."

True dat. said...

Dennis, my point was that you, by bringing up Lacey's race, are putting way too much thought into this. It doesn't matter who is holding that seat, the District Attorney of Los Angeles County will always oppose the release of the Manson killers. And it's pointless to read into a letter such as this because it is written by a deputy that probably at best, has a done a high level review of the case. They will comb through a bunch of transcripts looking for something usable to support their position. They are not historians and with their case loads they don't have the time to go through 40 plus years of case files. It's just an opposition letter. Pfeiffer responded with his own and pointed out the issues in Lacey's.

George, with a statement like that you must feel awful confident with the accuracy of your book.

Manson Mythos said...

Well, I didn't say her race had anything to do with it. My comment was aimed more about certain African Americans and white liberals who like to perpetuate the concept that the corrupt system is that of a white males. Yet, here we have the direct attorney being a black woman.

When Tookie Williams was set to be executed, it was turned into a race thing. Snoop Dogg was out protesting and of course the name of Manson was evoked in that too. The idea Manson is alive while Williams was killed was used as proof of a racist system.

..and I'm certain if Leslie was black, the picket signs would come out over a white DA's office twisting her words around like that.

orwhut said...

If we think the "good guys" won't lie, we're probably wrong. Sometimes we're wrong about them being "good guys", too.

George Stimson said...

"George, with a statement like that you must feel awful confident with the accuracy of your book."

It's all about intent, Cielo. There's a great difference between inadvertent inaccuracy and intentional deception. said...

I hear ya George. I like the idea of holding people to a higher standard. But proving intent would be difficult.

Robert Hendrickson said...

Here's the REAL problem with this issue regarding "truthfulness" within the judicial system.

Because it directly concerns whether a person stays in prison OR whether that person is released from prison, the DA's lies act exactly as if they were stated in a TRIAL.

AND that means IF I am a witness or an attorney making statements in a TRIAL, I get to LIE TOO.

AND so when Bill Clinton, as President, got to LIE in a legal proceeding, I get to LIE in any legal proceeding of MY choosing.

It also allows ME to publically state that: Of course it took Bill Clinton 30 minutes to get -off behind that airplane, OUR attorney general was taking longer to please her President.

YOU see, when an "officer of the court" LIES in connection with any legal matter, it is a "license" for ALL others to LIE also.

AND "they" have in effect rendered the "judicial system" meaningless. Prison, I think NOT, but turn them over to ISIS for some serious justice - why NOT ?

Anonymous said...

fukk Munsonblog, fukk Thurman Munson, and fukk the New York Yankees!!!

Anonymous said...

"Inmate Van Houten and the other Manson Family members were trying to ignite a civilization-ending race war between African-Americans and Caucasians..."

...and they would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for Scooby Doo and those meddling kids!

AustinAnn74 said...

I read this comment from the LA Times about this:
She helped butcher the pleading LaBiancas with glee but from the story and the comments she is almost certainly no current threat. She was 19 at the time in a drug-addled cult under the influence of Manson, 17 psyche physicians have opined that she is no danger. But this is not about that, it is also about the need of survivors and the pubic to see adequate retribution and justice done against anyone that vicious and as a maximum deterrent to others (you don't get a do-over after doing something like that) and that need is perfectly legitimate basis for punishment.

AustinAnn74 said...
This comment has been removed by the author. said...

Well, the DA has as much control on her freedom as Pfeiffer does. Pfeiffer's letter highlights the issues in Lacey's letter. If Brown is truly partial the DA may have hurt herself with this presentation. However, both sides will skew things to support their position. Take this passage from Pfeiffer's letter.

"Ms. Van Houten did stab Ms. La Bianca multiple times after Tex Watson handed her a knife and told her to "do something" while he pointed a bayonet at Ms. Van Houten. It was the same bayonet that he used to kill Ms. La Bianca."

The problem with that is there is no record of anyone, besides Leslie, saying what he emphasized in italics. At least I can't find anyone saying that. Even if you go just by many of Van Houten's own accounts, she doesn't say anything about Tex pointing a knife at her.

My point is that both sides go too far and hope it will go unnoticed.

Farflung said...

From a March, 1999 article where Pheiffer (LVH's lawyer) is part of a program called shortstop. Where youthful offenders are potentiality diverted from a life of crime.

Rich recalls the pain and grief he caused his family, friends, via his armed robbery to support a drug habit. The one thing he omits (as they all do) is the damage done to his victim. Yep, 99.44 percent manage to do just that. So weird.

Robert Hendrickson said...

Another THOUGHT:

It sounds to ME like the author or this letter is actually TERRIFIED of just the thought of "Helter Skelter" coming to pass. AND if you were a BLACK person reading this YOU would be calling the White House to beg Obama "Save ME, Save ME !" Because in reality, there would be NO Black folks left to hand the reins of power back.

What the DA's Office is really saying is: "We're NOT afraid of Leslie Van Houton, BUT we are scared out of our pants of a "Helter Skelter." Just what Mr. "B" dreamed of.

Matt said...

I can believe that Lacey didn't write the letter. It boggles my mind how little lawyers and physicians actually do.

Years ago I had an acquaintance who worked in a hospital. His job was to do autopsies. He wasn't a skilled medical technician or anything of the sort. He was a minimum wage employee! He'd do the carving, find the cause of death and fill out the paperwork. The doctor would come by a few times a day and sign the forms. Incredible.

If hospitals consider cause of death unimportant enough to delegate it to entry-level employees, I can certainly believe a DA would allow surrogates to write a petition letter to the Governor on her behalf.

Robert Hendrickson said...


How long have YOU lived in America ? What you describe is "standard" procedure in most every industry in the WORLD. When YOU go under the knife (surgery) you didn't know the doctor's apprentice was actually wielding the KNIFE ?

In WWII, my father was the ship's "NURSE", BUT the doctor was a "drunk" so my father had to actually perform operations while the doctor was passed-out.

AND my father had to brew liqueur with the ship's supply of medical alcohol for the doctor to be happy.

What do you THINK a Judge's law CLERK is for ? WHO do YOU think actually FIRST reviews cases for the U.S. Supreme Court to take-on.

Of course, there are always those WHO actually do THEIR own work, BUT where do you THINK the saying: "Someone has to do it for them" came from." OR "Someone has to show Blackie how to do it." Little Paul Watkins was trying to TELL us something. Like specifically, the "Black Muslims" will WIN the final battle of Helter Skelter, BUT apparently NOW the DA has CHANGED it to "African-Americans."

SO is Jackie Lacy NOW trying to tell us that African Americans are the Black Muslims, cause the Muslims just massacred a couple of hundred in Bagdad. Iraq YESTERDAY and THEY were NOT even Gay. Remember the other saying: "Be careful of what YOU wish for." Cause God surely knows that Black folks and Muslims can make for a very powerful PAIR.

Little Paul may have been an ignorant fool, BUT he knew exactly what Charles Manson THOUGHT about the Past, the Present and the Future.

grimtraveller said...

ziggyosterberg said...

...and they would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for Scooby Doo and those meddling kids!

They might have gotten away with it if they hadn't been composed of loads of meddling kids !

Zelda Formaldehyde said...

Always nice to view a previously unseen picture of Leno and Rosemary.

Lacey, by at least her tacit approval of signing the letter, refuses to leave 1969 be and jump into the NOW. Does Governor Jerry really need a recap of the boxscore? Does anybody? Once again, Leslie can overcome her own demons, live a demonstrably good life, but as long as people are still afraid of HS and 1969, it's an unnecessary obstacle. And it somehow manages to make Manson's credo look sane: It's your confusion, it's not my confusion. It's your fear, not my fear.
Leslie has been suitable for release for many years (IMO), and the Parole Board took it's sweet time getting around on that. Good on them, I guess. We'll see what Jerry says.
But Lacey is just another coward in a long line of cowards.
Courage in this world, and the ability to live by one's word, is in increasingly short supply. Lacey's letter is unimportant, irrational and deceptive. It deserves no consideration here.

Anonymous said...

grimtraveller said...

"They might have gotten away with it if they hadn't been composed of loads of meddling kids !"

The brains behind the guns (and knives) were not as polished and precise as they SHOULD be. ;)

Manson Mythos said...

There was a news article from the summer of 1969 about a black muslim who was a member of the Nation of Islam and who beat the nephew of a member of the Italian mafia up in NJ on a job site. The FBI got heard the Mafia discussing was of getting revenge. Just a gun, since Martin Luther King was recently shot, or a knife to "make it look like a nigger job".

The big boss decided NO, no retaliation at all as it was feared a war between the black muslims and italian mafia would break out. The gist of the article was how the Italian mafia feared "black power" too.

Anonymous said...

Happy 4th everyone, and shout-out to Max Frost and Chatsworth Charlie - both very cool dudes, and Bad MotherF*ckers.

Bonus : Every Samuel L. Jackson "MotherF*cker", ever.

DebS said...

ziggy, this guy gives Samuel L Jackson a run for his money in the mutha f*cka department, considering it's one 24 minute video.

MRobertsIsNotMansonsSon said...

What does this headline mean? I'm confused- it asks "Honestly who does it apply to?" Who does what apply to?

DebS said...

Maybe you're confused because you stuck an "L" in the word Honesty that isn't there.

StillGrooving said...

Manson Mythos said...

"Conservative: Charles Manson was a hippie who wanted to slaughter whites and blame blacks to cause chaos in society!

Liberals: Charles Manson was a white racist who wanted to blame blacks!"

Conservative: Charles Manson is white, so he can't be ALL bad! My God is the ONLY God, and he will take care of Charlie when his time is up! Guns are Good and the earth is only 6000 years old. Donald Trump is a genius and has great hair!

Liberal: Charles Manson is a crazy pimp and master con man. "God" didn't make him that way, his upbringing and prison did. I am an educated person and know the earth has been around for about 4.5 billion years. If you don't have a gun, you can't shoot me. Donald Trump is too stupid to keep his mouth shut.

Robert Hendrickson said...

MANSON Mythos:

I remember the AUGUST 1965 Watts Riots as if it was yesterday. BUT what the media may not have emphasized - Blacks were tossing malltoff cocktails from their cars ALL over Los Angeles. AND Angelenos were TERRORFIED. IT actually felt like Helter Skelter was igniting.

Four years later, the DA's Office and the "establishment" had to play the RACE card very carefully, otherwise the "Helter Skelter" prize could have blown-up in everyone's face. AND letting Charles Manson SPEAK could have been the spark that set-off a REAL revolution.

So arguing the legal points in NOT allowing Manson to represent himself is like spilling YOUR seeds in the gutter. The LAW was created and is enforced to prevent the "underworld" from overtaking the "other' world - PERIOD

My God folks, it's NOT rocket science - just look at YOUR legal system - YOU have to be a "lawyer" to WIN or as old ABE says YOU are a "fool" to even play in the game. You MUST hire one of THEM to even play in THEIR game for YOU.

TWO thousand years ago, a good and decent law abiding citizen had to pack-up his pregnant wife and travel, via donkey, a long way to hand deliver "TAX" money to the KING. Nothing has changed, EXCEPT HE can now send in HIS hard-earned money "electronically."

IF you THINK about it, the Black People used to complain because THEY were forced to be White Man's servant, and NOW they are lined-up and begging to be White man's Public Servants. Apparently, that makes sense to THEM - except to the Black Muslims is the Middle East.

Matt said...

StillGrooving, it's times like this that I wish Blogger had a Like button.

MRobertsIsNotMansonsSon said...

You are correct DebS- I read it quicly and did not catch that.

Robert Hendrickson said...

Well Mr. Pistols, ORWHUT & SAINT here it is: The word "pig" for a cop was first listed in the Dictionary of Buckish Slang in 1811 published in London England.

Just as I thought, those damned Lymies - always instigating controversay that effects the good and decent folks in America. That also may explain how the "Beatles" got hold of the name for THEIR "Piggie" song.

That's it - time to "BAN" guns and EVERYTHING coming from across the pond !

Robert Hendrickson said...

OMG;" London" - that's where Polanski was and "Pig" was written on the front door of the Polanski home - in a "bloody" manner. Bruce must have gone there to get the secret "operation" password.
AND poor Joel MUST have committed suicide when HE discovered HE would be at the center of an international assassination.

NO wonder "3 letters across the pond" and his Gang of wild and crazy bloggers KNOW more about the Manson case than us. They were actually behind operation "Death to Pigs."