Sunday, April 24, 2022

The Episode Where Mr. X Says He Sold Owsley LSD to Charlie for a Dollar a Tab

And partnered with Charlie in drug ventures. I can't even with this dude anymore. 

Owsley acid was free and not around for as long as X thinks. His timeline is off. My basic research process is once I catch someone in one lie, they remain a liar. 

Anecdotally, I also know LSD cost a buck a hit in bulk in the Midwest during the 90's. Often, the price point was at fifty cents per. At least learn the numbers, X.  

Whatever. The greatest hits regurgitation of everything you ever read in Manson continues here. You'll love it if your name is Dupey McDuperson and you have time for an old man's bullshit stories. I can't wait until we know who this cat is for real. 

Owsley on his way to meet X, Chuck Sommers, and Sonny B. 


G. Greene-Whyte said...

Or maybe he kept on manufacturing after this happened in 1967:

In late 1967, Stanley's La Espiral, Orinda, lab was raided by police; he was found in possession of 350,000 doses of LSD and 1,500 doses of STP. His defense was that the illegal substances were for personal use, but he was found guilty and sentenced to three years in prison. The same year, Stanley officially shortened his name to "Owsley Stanley". After he was released from prison, Stanley resumed working for the Grateful Dead as their live sound engineer. On January 31, 1970, at 3:00 am, 19 members of the Grateful Dead and crew were arrested for possession of a variety of drugs at a French Quarter hotel after returning from a concert at The Warehouse in New Orleans. -Wikipedia

G. Greene-Whyte said...

Same article:

Stanley and Scully produced about 196 grams of LSD in 1967, but 96 grams of this was confiscated by the police.

Buntline said...

I have to agree that Mr X sets off my bullshit detector.

The only aspect that gives me pause for thought is that he had knowledge of Jack and Barbara/Ruth Gordon's relationship. As far as I know, no-one else even knew who Ruth Gordon was.

Interesting that he has now brought Carol Loveless into play, another person with a mugshot, but not recorded by Earl Deemer. I don't know much about the background to the mugshot collection, where and when would Jack Gordon, 'Ruth' Gordon and Carol Loveless have been arrested? Should there be LASO numbers for these arrests?

If X was legit, his mugshot should be there too, and there are only a limited number of possibilities. I can see that at least two of the more obscure male mugs do currently live on the West coast.

Matt said...

I just finished reading Phil Lesh's autobiography, and I was really reading closely on the Owsley parts. Just what you mentioned in this post ensures that it (X) is pure, unadulterated, 100% bullshit. Glad I didn't listen.

G. Greene-Whyte said...

LOL dude said he cleaned the stems and seeds from the weed he sold. What a pal!

G. Greene-Whyte said...

Bunt, I wondered why Carol was between Jack and Ruth in those photos. Even spent a bit of time going between their faces and the modern Barbara's.

G. Greene-Whyte said...

Bumper music for the next installment to the Mr. X Fables...

shoegazer said...


Many here know that LSD was legal in US in the mid-part of the 1960s--it was a new development, not yet covered by the legal system:

"The governors of Nevada and California each signed bills into law on May 30, 1966, that make them the first two American states to outlaw the manufacture, sale, and possession of the drug. "


It was not treated as an innocuous substance prior to that date, but was not unlawful.

WRT what regular kids were buying for dope, I can recall at that time hearing Dylan's "Subterranean Homesick Blues", in which the lyric is sung:

The man in the coon-skin cap in a pig pen [I heard this as "with a Bic pen"]
Wants 11 dollar bills – you only got 10

We thought that this was referring to the price of a lid--about 1 oz in a baggie for $10 for a long time.

Yes, lots of seeds and stems, a few buds, maybe. I can recall the technique of putting the contents of a lid on a piece of cardboard, inclined upward at one end, with the dope at the upper end and agitating the dope to make the seeds roll to the bottom--like panning for gold, in a way, but the inverse. You could then try to use them in another way, but nothing was satisfactory, so far as I was concerned. I can remember my room-mates and myself making a sort of long-brewed tea out of stems/seeds, but then having second thoughts about it. My girlfriend at the time drank it, but did not get in any sense buzzed, so...

We did make Toklas brownies, and these worked well, but less bang for the buck, plus extra work.

Gosh, I can now remember the macho gesture common at the time of eating the roach, when it was way down to the end. I never did this, but many did, probably as a gesture.

This is all Harold True-type stuff, but Lite version.

Loegria15 said...

I only want to know what the name of the band was that he says he was in.

Gorodish said...

Thanks for the warning. I didn't watch Part 1 saved me 75 minutes of my life that I'd never be able to get back. The Michigan Freeloader strikes again.

If you want a really good read about the darker side of Owsley's distribution network in 1966-67, check out George Wethern's "A Wayward Angel". George "Baby Huey" Wethern was a high-ranking Oakland Hells Angel in the 1960s. He and another legendary Oakland Angel, John "Terry The Tramp" Tracy, were Owsley's main distributors and muscle in the Haight. It has all their dealings with Owsley, Nick Sand, etc.; plus it's a fascinating look into the inner workings of the 1960's Oakland Chapter of the Angels.

G. Greene-Whyte said...

I'm guessing Mr. X read the same book and hasn't kept his dates straight. Thanks, Gorodish.

grimtraveller said...

GG-W said:

My basic research process is once I catch someone in one lie, they remain a liar

How about Shreck writing up Rosemary LaBianca as a big time drug dealer and the acid Queen of Los Feliz ?

G. Greene-Whyte said...

Ahoy hoy! I emailed you back the other day but from a different account. Maybe check your spam if you don't see me. I'm the worst at Outlook.

grimtraveller said...

Yeah, I got it. Expect to hear from me soon.

grimtraveller said...

The weed seeds had a horrific rep here in early 80s London. We always took them out because they were reputed to give one a high strength headache and sometimes, they popped when the burning got to them.

G. Greene-Whyte said...

Stems and seeds are weight tho. Weed doesn't actually have seeds in it anymore unless your life sucks. But any dealer who does that removes money from his pocket.

shoegazer said...

They *always* popped... ;^)

shoegazer said...

But any dealer who does that removes money from his pocket.

Yes, this was especially true for folks like me in the 60s, in college. We had no real idea what it was *supposed* to be like, and no one could really pay much more than 10 for a lid, and so seeds/stems were the norm--for people like me at least.

We were so *credulous, too! Mauie Wowie, Panama Red, etc. I'd guess this was simply marketing with no assurance that this was not grown in Tecate or Mexicali, for example, and snuck across at San Ysidro the week before.

The very best experience I can recall was hash--again, brand label BS--Lebanese blonde.

I quit when I was about 35. Just as dope sharpens the appetite, taste, music, etc., it made me much more aware of just how many aches and pains I had accrued to that point.

...that, and by then the dope was stronger, and I got the spins a number of times, whereas I did not before.

Toadstool Shadow said...

I haven't listened to any of the Mr. X stuff, but... The OP's assertion that "Owsley acid was free" is, with respect, not true. As Gorodish mentioned above, the common wisdom, further elaborated in Greenfield's bio of Owsley, "Bear: The Life and Times of Augustus Stanley Owsley III," is that a certain member or members of the HA (Oakland chapter, I offhand recall) distributed Owsley's Liberating Sacrament of Divinity. Yes, Owsley gave some away free, likely funneled through a member of the Diggers (Emmett Grogan, if I'm recalling correctly), but Owsley was a businessman. Even in his later days, while selling his pricey gold jewelry on the post-Jerry Further/Dead circuit, he was a businessman. As far as the OP's assertion that Owsley's LSD was "not around for as long as X thinks," that is a matter of open debate. Owsley's captures and confinements are a matter of public record, but a reasonable case could be made that Owsley manufactured large quantities that were still making their round well after his confinements. Really, nobody knows when Owsley made his last batch. He was man of secrets, most of which died with him on that lonesome Australian road 11 years ago.

Manson Mythos said...

I don't know about this guy either. The last guy Lansing had on told one the most laughable bullshit stories ever told about Charlie (in a nutshell, he was known at the free clinic because freaked out kids on speed were telling them about this Manson guy following them saying "if you want to play, you got to pay" over and over again). As it turns out, that guy is a fiction writer and that bit is in one of his fiction books. All of his wild claims are in his fiction books.

So, I wouldn't doubt if Lansing is being duped by a guy who happened to read a lot on the case. She's unethical thief who released a book to cash in on the 50th and I recently caught her reviewing her own book favorably with her real identity.

Manson Mythos said...

Nikolas Schreck doesn't have a set belief on LaBianca, btw. People like to listen to interviews or read a fragment from ages ago and spew garbage. Nikolas wrote what people told him, he doesn't always claim it's the truth, but possibility. He presents like seven different possible motives for that night.

It was ALICE LABIANCA who first said Rosemary was dealing and she said she was dealing WITH Suzan. So go take it to that side of the face first.

Loegria15 said...

I was watching a "What If?" series about the Batman, like what if he was active between 1919 & 1939, and they profiled the Riddler. The storyline had him dying in prison with his last note saying"

"What does a liar do when he dies?"

Doug said...

Fuck - I laughed my ass off when he said that....

X is servin up pure revisionist poop

Episode 1 was at least 35% believable but Episode 2 was horrendous

Even seemed like Allegra was trying to reel him in at many points.

He may be a fringe connection but ghe's working really hard to work himself into the dialog

Doug said...

ghe's = he's

Doug said...
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Doug said...

We saved the roaches for a mega "Ming 1000" super joint using the Cheech and Chong paper from your Big Bambu lp...but that was around 1978 for me

Doug said...


shoegazer said...


We saved the roaches for a mega "Ming 1000" super joint


Did you folks commonly believe that the roach was the strongest part, reasoning that all of the dope as it burned and was inhaled past the rest of the dope, it sort of filtered out some of the wowie part, so that the roach would contain the most potent hit?

Strange days, indeed...

shoegazer said...


Does it seem to you that "Dave's not here" is the generational equivalent of "Who's on first"?

Thinking about it, it does to me...

Loegria15 said...

1978 for me

Tee hee, that was the year I started smoking weed!

grimtraveller said...

Manson Mythos said:

Nikolas Schreck doesn't have a set belief on LaBianca, btw

No, he's just happy to splurge any old shit that comes his way for the heck of it ?

People like to listen to interviews or read a fragment from ages ago and spew garbage

If you write a 988 page book and charge people for it, you are going to be held to most of what is in there, old friend. You've been doing that with Bugliosi ever since I've come into contact with you !
In the book, he doesn't present his Rosemary claims as something he was told. He states the claims as actualities. And he makes the statements a few times in the book.

Nikolas wrote what people told him, he doesn't always claim it's the truth, but possibility

He goes out of his way to state that what is in the book is his opinion.
He actually states:
"The opinions expressed herein, however, as well as any errors of fact or interpretation, are mine alone."
To be fair to him, he interviewed tons of people and managed to put together an interesting compendium of disgruntled fantasy.

It was ALICE LABIANCA who first said Rosemary was dealing and she said she was dealing WITH Suzan

If there is anyone whose words ought to be treated with ultra caution, it's the ex-wife that won't let go.
But regardless of what she thought or rumours she may have started, Nikolas pads his book out with claims that cannot be substantiated and in doing so, casts a very negative shadow over anything he then goes on to say.
It's very noble of you to defend him, but Nik's a big lad. He's robust enough to take the criticism.

Doug said...

I definitely believed that the roaches were the most potent...I was pretty much a kid (13) when I first smoked weed and, had a lot to learn about life....something that I was kinda forced to learn very quickly when I went on tour with my teenaged punk rock band in the summer of 1981 at the MUCH OLDER and WISER age of 16...

That was a real eye opener

Doug said...

Could be...lemme think about it a bit

Doug said...

Me too

Loegria15 said...


I'd've LOVED to've been in a band in 1981...heck, I'd love to be in one NOW.

Doug said...

Yeah...just do it! Never too late. Enjoy it.

I still playing occasionally but, my back is really messed up from hauling the huge amplifiers and, being a human tetris piece crammed into a stinky van with 3 other people and all of our gear...

Slept on a LOT of floors, tried to survive on a $5 a day per diem (increased to $10 after 18 years of touring....but it was an incredible learning experience and I have made a lot of amazing people whom I am fortunate to call my friends.

If you want to do it...just do it! Just have fun and put your heart into it.

Doug said...

You're from Michigan? Some of the greatest bands and performers of all-time are from Michigan!

? & The Mysterians
The Rationals
John Lee Hooker
The many incredible artists of Motown
Del Shannon
The White Stripes

Many, many more too

Rock out my friend

Loegria15 said...

The Romantics...Adrenaline (whom I saw in a surprise concert at the Punch & Judy in Grosse Pointe)...and a few more, yeah, lol. I was raised in Detroit, but born in Grosse Pte. Park; I tell folks that Mom had the alligator removed from my left breast so I wouldn't grow up feeling weird. And Detroit in the mid-1970s - when HS came out - was not like anywhere else, I can safely say that. I did have fears about being creepy-crawled, even though our neighborhood was white-blue-collar & racially-mixed.

Thank you, dear sir !I in a band last year, but when the drummer got COVID-19 & the lead guitarist had it but when I asked if he'd been tested said, we'll all be well in a day or two (???) Also he had the attitude that trans folks want to go to the bathroom to prey on kids, not to pee, poop, wash their hands, &/or check on their appearance. So it's just as well...but we sounded so good.

Also: I'm glad Janis never ran into Charlie & co. when she was in SF...though that would be a tale, wouldn't it? Just out of curiosity - to the whole group - has her name or anyone's connected to her ever come up along Charlie's? I'm kinda surprised Mr. X didn't mention her, since in the first vid (yes i watched) he "knew" a lot.

shoegazer said...

The most lovable anecdote about Joplin I can recall is that when her producer told her after she went solo that she'd have to change the way she sung or her voice would give out, she just laughed and said that if that happened, she'd just buy a bar in west Marin, Lagunitas, Forest Knolls, or Olema, maybe, and she'd be just as happy.

Doug said...

The early Romantics 7"(before they signed by a major label) are outstanding! The major label debut album is killer too! They were a great live act too. I chat with Mike Skill on FB a fair bit. He's a decent guy.

I forgot about Marshall Crenshaw and Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels too!

So you are a bonefide working musician yourself...awesomeness!

What do you play?

Good decision to bail on that nasty guy. That kinda morally vacant and vocally hateful person would eventually poison the rest of you & your friends and fans and create the kind of scenario that may end in rage and/or pent up hostility that might even see someone popping him in the throat or, worse.

Grosse Point....funny you mention LaCoste..I was in a group discussion about gentrification of the places where the arts community and/or the poorest are getting moved out via renovictions and the infiltration of the vapid and self-absorbed types of people like the people (who my friend Janet Housden) referred to as the type of people "we went to high-school with who wore topside, LaCoste shirts." To which I added "with pastel coloured sweaters around their shoulders and an entitled smugness that radiates off them like a bottle of stale Drakkar Noir"

I'm in Vancouver and our Downtown Eastside is the lowest income postal/zip code in North America.

I remember Detroit in the late 80s and early 90s being one boarded up house after another with squatters doing crack en masses and fully strapped.

You wouldn't believe what our DTES is like...

Sorry to take that sobering turn from the music talk


Doug said...

The last fully conceived and, semi-serious (yet fully dysfunctional and doomed to fail) project I was involved in was an 11 person (every single one of us a front/focal point put together with a lot of thought on dynamics and personalities) was LITTLE GUITAR ARMY.

We really played these custom crafted we guitars...both live and, on our recordings. It was a brilliant concept that was always just about to implode.

This is our $30k video that we had made for $500 in catering for the crew. Every person involved with the video were completely all-in to make our video because I had a "game plan" and the producers were going to film an internet reality show while following us on tour.

We usually covered "Kick Out the Jams" live and Bob and Lisa (The BellRays) saw us live and they were blown away.

And here's the Detroit connection...I am playing this all Lisa sang for the DTK/MC5 Reunion in 2004. And, Marshall Crenshaw played in place of Fred "Sonic" Smith (see...)

So the next time the BellRays played in Vancouver we gave them a custom built wee American flag guitar to them to give to Wayne Kramer upon their return to Riverside California

Holy 6 degrees of FUBAR Batman

I gotta say...this video is epic...and, completely over the top

Doug said...
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Doug said...

I like to imagine Janis and Roky as co-lead vocalists of the 13th Floor Elevators...

It was definitely considered. They were close friends in Texas

shoegazer said...

13th, you mean.

23rd sounds like a cover band...

Did you like Moby Grape?

shoegazer said...

Yay! 13th!!!

shoegazer said...


I'm in Vancouver and our Downtown Eastside is the lowest income postal/zip code in North America.

Complaint or boast?...


shoegazer said...


So because of your posts I just listened to 13th Floor "You're Gonna Miss Me" and Grape "Omaha". I remembered hearing both of these pretty extensively in the Bay Area in whatever years they were out.

But here's the point: these are REALLY REALLY uptempo and energetic, compared to anything I've heard in the last few years. !!!

Another observation, since you're really into music (more than me, for sure): it was EASY to find songs about love relationships, but it's very hard to find them now. Songs about the feeling of a deeper relationship or emotion, rather than songs about lust.

This is neither good nor bad, merely indicates a difference in sensibilities between eras.

Quite a thematic change, huh?

Doug said...

They're still out there...but, you gotta look beneath the plethora of the current pop landscape's horrendous autotuned drek

Moby Grape were outstanding. Five songwriters with five slightly unique musical flavors who each also sang lead vocals!

Omaha was written by their sparkplug and, troubled genius Skip Spence who went nuts while they were recording ghe follow-up to their phenomenal debut. (Long and harrowing tale...listen to the last of Skip's compositions while he was still in the band (Seeing). It is brilliant and, frightening...and, like most of Skip's compositions, .more uptempo and, unique!

And, speaking of love songs....from that Moby Grape debut and, written/song by smokin lead guitarist Jerry Miller and, drummer Don Stevenson

8:05 (a love song about a breakup) that is much slower/laid back/poignant

Skip's song Seeing

And, a Skip authoured love song he had written when he was the drummer of Jefferson Airplane (on their 1st album) that the Airplane recorded and released as the debut single off their international chart-topping sophomore release Surrealistic Pillow

My Best Friend

Skip went from this in 66 as a drummer to Omaha in 67 and, to Seeing in 68

Then host his mind

Doug said...

I am very proud (and, fortunate) to be from Vancouver/Burnaby.

It is just so gut-wrenching to see this city change to a place that doesn't seem to care that the marginalized have been written off/bulldozed over and, dying in numbers due to the opiod/fentanyl crisis, gentrification and homelessness.

And, the real estate side rental market is untenable

Here's a n example of rent in Vancouver

Lower end price (no bedroom)

Slumbers renting condemned shitboxes horribly reno'd into 200sq ft "rooms" in the Downtown Eastside

Doug said...


Dan S said...

Who's on first is actually funny; that's why it will always be remembered.

shoegazer said...


Great stuff, thanks!

I didn't know he had written My Best Friend, which was one of my favorite Airplane songs. It was funny: I was real hot/cold on the Airplane, some few songs I liked, many not. I liked almost everything Quicksilver Messenger Service did from their first album thru Happy Trail, then not so good. A dual lead guitar band.

About 15-20 years ago on NPR Morning Edition, back before every outlet had to have an agenda, they did a retrospective of Spence right after he died. They talked a lot about a song called Books of Moses from an album call Oar, I think. Beyond just hearing B o M during the retrospective, I never heard any more.

B o M was sorta weird, like a prophetic lament, like Pride of Man but not focused on any sort of judgement day for the species, much more personally apocalyptic.

Thanks again for the links, Doug!!

shoegazer said...

Dan S:

Who's on First lasted for +80 years, without any real problem translating between generations.

It's golden, for sure.

But to those smoking as young adults in the 60-70s, Dave's not here was great. Not as great, but...

You're right, though: you had to be within that group to get in, but with Who's on First you don't even need to know much about baseball, even.

Loegria15 said...

"Who's on stage?

Doug said...

Listen to "Little Hands" and "All Come To Meet Her" from OAR.

Skip played everything on that album.

Doug said...


J-Dog said...

Never any love for Mich Ryder and the Detroit Wheels.

I am not a robot.

Doug said...

Lots from me...and Detroit too! Both great live! Early Seger System with Pep's epic 4 bass drum setup