Your Resource for the Tate-LaBianca (TLB) MurdersYesterday :: Today :: Tomorrow :: Where No Sense Makes Sense
Off topic-L/S who is a visitor here, and a great contributor over on T/L has had a death in his family ( Aunt)...I have been on both sides of it with him, and he a smart guy, who fights fair- has many great thoughts on this case...My very best wishes go out to him and his family, and I hope he gets through it in the very best manner possible :) Keep your head up BRO!!!
My sincere condolences for your loss, Lynyrd...
Skynyrd- thinking about you and sending sympathy your way from all of us here.
The song is a trip
There is a Ruby Pearl interview on Youtube where she talks in glowing terms of how talented the Family was says they were all singers, musicians/artists. She said they were a nice bunch of young people. She never saw any direct eveidence of the drugs, indoctrinations and debauchery since Ruby went home at 5pm everyday. At 5 oclock Charlie took over and turned them all into killers with his evening chautauquas. Yet Charlie blames them and they blame Charlie for the mayhem that happened.
Ruby's comment that they seemed like "a nice bunch" speaks to why I have retained an interest in TLB. The murders themselves are way secondary. I am intrigued by the tribal element - how this group arrived at their collective mindset. And they are interesting - Squeeky and Gypsy and Ouisch and Brenda et all. There are times they do seem so innocent and loving. Then, obviously, there are many more times they seem totally deranged and psychotic. The question will always be was CM the primary factor or were the majority of the family predisposed to what they became.
Wow I never knew Gypsy released a song! Her singing voice sounds a lot like her speaking voice.
[QUOTE]Anonymous said...Ruby's comment that they seemed like "a nice bunch" speaks to why I have retained an interest in TLB. The murders themselves are way secondary.[END QUOTE]Mr Poirot replies: I wholly agree. It's an amazing story ruined by murder.I always wondered why nobody did a movie on Charlie vs Paul Crockett and called it Guru vs Guru. Crocket was the 1st one to notice that every Family member thought exactly as Charlie did. Hendrickson's film showed they were all identically programmed too. Listening to Gypsy's song recorded pre-Charlie shows an uptempo fast rock beat in vogue with the times. It is completely different from the droning ballads Charlie programmeded into their music later own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d52Ustldi24Here's Ruby's Youtube interview.
I'm with both of you. My interest in all of this is THE FAMILY pre-murders. The whole dynamic of the communal living, etc. The fact that they lived outside of the law by stealing cars & running a chop shop to build dune buggies, etc. I find that stuff fascinating and if I could sit down with Brenda, Cappy, Sandy, and the rest today my questions would all center around that stuff. The murders are secondary to me.Charlie could have kept 3-5 of them for the rest of his life and never work. TLB was bad business decision making.
The M documentary gives a perfect example of both sides...The Girls in the opening scene (Sandy, Brenda, Squeakster) look robotic. They have a far off look in there eyes- it is scary) There is a scene later where they are playing music and just showing the girls sitting in a field sewing. The wind is blowing and they are laughing and smiling at each other- and they look like any normal teenagers having a good time... You cant even believe they are the same people...I saw an experiment where they bring a guy into a room with a bunch of Actors. He doesn't know who they are. Someone starts asking questions, and everyone is giving the wrong answers, and the guy knows the answers are wrong. by the end of the session he is purposely giving the wrong answer so he wont stand out from the group...People want to fit in to begin with. Now take young people who are on drugs, and looking for acceptance that they aren't getting anywhere else...I dont think Charlie was smart enough to know any of this ahead of time to any intellectual degree.. I think it started small, and he saw quickly how it worked, and was able to build on it from there... There were those he tried to bring in and failed- so it wasn't any guru powers... it was simple social science...
Mr. Poirot I was typing my post before your showed up- so pardon me for repeating your Hendrickson point...
Obviously it is a cliche but the Manson story really is about the thin line between love and hate. I am most interested in those who did not take the "hate bait" - like Diedre Lansbury and Ella Jo and some others.Again, obviously, there is no real motivation for any of those people to speak out (and we're all sick of Hoyt and Gypsy) but you would think some documentry maker would throw some bucks around and try and get Cappy and Mary and some others to talk. Didn't I read somewhere recently that Cappy's son had been helping Sandy Good and her guy fix up Barker? He might be an interesting conversation.
I agree with the others. The family, tribal dynamic is what intrigues me. There are gangs and crime families in every county in every state. What makes the 'Manson family' so fascinating and unique? Well, because their group is predominantly women. Young,attractive, intelligent middle class women. They were not losers, in fact they were the cream of the crop. If destiny had not hurled them together in the stormy 60's, surely they would have gone on to live prosperous lives. Some of them still did.When Bobby Beusoleil was arrested for murder, and Charlie shot LotsaPoppa (Tex's jam), and Sandy and Mary were arrested, I think it was sort of a last straw. Its a hot summer day in August. They probably got into the Coors beer and the dope and started talking shit about the pigs and all that they were against. Tex has something to prove and Sadie needs her terror fix. I don't doulbt that Charlie put some ideas in their heads. But they were willing.Drugs and the revolutionary, anti-establishment mood of the late 60's probably influenced the murders as much as Manson did. They probably believed that things were falling apart and that violence was an option for them.
I like your thoughts, Tom, but with all due respect it might be a stretch to call the girls 'the cream of the crop'. Most of them had serious self-esteem issues and daddy issues. Sadie had been a topless dancer, Gypsy in soft porn, Squeeky was stapling up her arm and so on. Intelligent, yeah, but well-balanced? Not by a long shot.People still argue HS versus drug burns vs establishment (i.e. Melcher) resentment and so on. Personally, I lean to the unbrella theory that all played a part but for me the dominant force was what I call the "dirty hand" dynamic. Charlie had not intended to be the one to shoot Bernard Crowe. He planned for TJ to do it. But TJ balked and now Charlie believed wholeheartedly that he had killed a Black Panther in front of several witnesses. He must of known his days were numbered and he wanted the rest of his family in the same boat. He insisted to Tex that Leslie get her hands dirty and so on. And I think it is clear he intended to get everyone he could to have the same "dirty hands" that he did. Charlie was a control freak, he hated being at a disadvantage. If the sword was hangin over his head, he wanted it over everyone in the family's head. It was all headed downhill by then, but the Crowe shooting, so often underplayed because he didn't in fact die, was to me what pushed it all over the cliff.
Probably no coors beer, Tom - the family did a lot of drugs, but they were not really drinkers is what I have read.
Anonymous said:[QUOTE]but the Crowe shooting, so often underplayed because he didn't in fact die, was to me what pushed it all over the cliff.[END QUOTE]I think this incident is why Charlie blames the others for what happened. Tex was burning people. Bobby killed Hinman in a robbery. Charlie says he wasn't the one who started all the trouble. That truly was a stupid murder Bobby committed and Tex was a scum bag for committing a drug burn and leaving his girlfriend behind to take the heat.
is there a way to hear gypsy's song without buying the cd?
Thanks for the link to the free download. This is actually a pretty lively song.
I acually like the song...quite nice and easygoing.Her singing voice is not so far away from her talking voice,when you here this song the first thing you´re thinking of is not murder and mayhem. Excellent blog by the way.Cheers.
P Patty said "Probably no coors beer, Tom - the family did a lot of drugs, but they were not really drinkers is what I have read."Danny drank and if you read on Hendrickson's site, he mentions one of the guys that were with him always had a Coors in his hand.I've been to Spahn's Ranch several times. A couple times I took a metal detector and found all kinds of things. There was something I found that I thought was odd. There were lots of places that there were Coors cans buried in spots. Mostly down in the creek area behind where the buildings were. What I thought was odd was they were only Coors cans and no other types of beer or soda. These cans had the pull off type tabs on them. This type of tab was banned in CA in the mid 70's. They had to of been buried prior to this time. If it was the family sneeking beer or if the were buried there at a later date I couldn't tell you.
I just went to Spahn last weekend...and by the creek my friend and I found a Coors can exactly like you describe. It was buried a bit and when we were walking we sort of unburied it....it was definitely from the 70's though, with the pull top.
Well that is interesting, Ken. This is something I never knew and one of the main reasons I enjoy being on this blog is to hear details like this from those of you who are in the know. This might be splitting hairs a bit but was Danny ever really "in" the family? I'd consider him more of an associate / biker (?)
Danny said... Excellent blog by the way.Cheers.thank you and welcome aboard.
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