Sunday, August 21, 2011


The Rudy Weber house
9870 Portola Dr. Beverly Hills

The ONLY reason this house is connected to the most publicized murder in History, is because the hose was laying in the driveway. I mean, if you lived in this house, would you still leave the hose laying there like this? I guess you have better odds of being struck by lightning twice, than having blood drenched killers stop by to get a drink from your hose twice.

Who cares about finding the motive, I need to figure out how in the hell they turned that car around. I drove a Ford Ranger up this street and it wasn't easy making a u-turn without hitting something. Portola Dr. is an alley at best and turning a 1959 Ford Fairlane around seems to me would be almost impossible. Below is Portola Dr. in front of the Weber house and possibly where the killers parked.


orwhut said...

Maybe I should go out and coil out my garden hose.

louis365 said...

It was Helter Skelter guidance...will people never learn

Stacey L. said...

I went down that street in a van and thought the same thing! The one thing I hate about that area is the damn cliffs. I drove from Mullholland into Benedict Canyon and was scared to death...I've always wondered what kept Tex and Co. from killing the owner of the house? I thought I remember reading he tried to yank the keys out of Tex's hands but didn't...just goes to show you if people show up in the middle of the night to use your hose LET THEM!

ACFisherAldag said...

If people show up in the middle of the night to use your hose... SHOOT them!

Ken619 said...

WOW! I actually agree with AC.

orwhut said...

I'll have to agree with Stacey. At my age, a manslaughter sentence would probably be life.

Zarathustra said...

u-turn in that street with a 59 Ford... don´t forget the methanphetamine factor!

FrankM said...

ACFisherAldag said...

If people show up in the middle of the night to use your hose... SHOOT them!

Have you ever shot anyone, AC? Killed anyone?

Just curious. It's not something that's so easy to do ...


Matt said...

Sounds like you speak from experience Frank. Military?

FrankM said...

Not my point, Matt, but yes. Semper Fi. But I'm an old man now.


Matt said...

I know it wasn't your point. Just picked-up on the undertone. Thank you for your service.

FrankM said...

And thanks for the thanks! It was a long time ago.

My point (in case it was too subtle) was unless you're a psychopath - or trained to kill (as I was) - that it's a pretty major thing to actually fire at someone. Most people most likely would not be capable. Maybe AC is tougher than most.

In fact, even when you've been trained it's not too easy. Squeezing a trigger at a distant target is not as bad as using white weapons in close combat- it's what you do in training - but even then I've seen men in active service unable to do it. (Not a sexist comment here - there were no women in the CAP in my day).

As for getting in close, well that's another matter and many old vets like me still have sleepless nights.

BTW, AC's post might concern a blog owner too - it's not so far removed from incitement, and in sensitive times, people get a little concerned ...


Ken619 said...

Encouraging people to defend their property is not by any means incitement. Defending your property is not a crime.

starship said...

I would bet that shooting someone who trespasses on your property to use your garden hose would be considered a crime in most places, these days.

Self-defense is supposed to be equal force, so shooting them with a water pistol would be ok, not with a .44

starship said...

Yes, Frank! Thank you for serving! I am fortunate enough to have never had to serve. Some of the credit for that, of course, goes to those who have.

Matt said...

Starship. Few people make me laugh aloud (Col, Adam, St.) You just cracked me up...

starship said...

And just for the fun of it: How could that Rudy Weber guy not call the cops when the next day he hears five people were murdered just around the corner? "Oh and some hippie kids woke me up in the middle of the night...had to chase them off...and the license plate number is...."

Ken619 said...

starship said...

"Self-defense is supposed to be equal force, so shooting them with a water pistol would be ok, not with a .44"

That's pretty funny!

FrankM said...

Ken619 said...

Encouraging people to defend their property is not by any means incitement. Defending your property is not a crime.

I think the word to bear in mind here is proportionate. I'm no lawyer, but I think that if you see someone in your driveway making free use of a water hose - your water hose - and you shoot them either to maim or kill, then I think you might find it hard to defend your action in court.

It would be hard to claim 'arbitrary interference with [your] privacy' (article 12 of the UDHR) if this took place in your driveway, or that you have been 'arbitrarily deprived of [your] property' (article 17 idem) - after all. the water in the hose is not really your property as such, you merely have the use of it.

It's not really in the spirit of the 6th Amendment either - there may be reasons that justify the use of the hose that you were not at the time aware of, but would support if asked (someone was unwell, something was on fire, etc.). Imagine someone trying to put out a fire on your property with your hose, and you come out and shoot them!.

But I'm no lawyer.


Ken619 said...

Hey Frank, lighten up. You're turning a half ass joke into a big debate that has nothing to do with what this thread is about.

katie8753 said...

Ken, interesting.

Did the killers use the hose at the front or the back of the house? That's not clear.

They did "turn around" according to Linda. I would imagine it wouldn't be that hard, it would need backing up and fronting, several times to make the change. With a car that big, it might take out a few garbage cans, or bump a fence or two. But that big steel car wouldn't be damaged. HA HA.

As far as killing someone in your yard using the water hose, I don't know about California law, but in Texas, we have Public Domaine, which means we can kill anyone trying to enter our homes to cause harm without charges.

They don't have to be in the house, they can be on the property, but they have to show that they mean harm.

Now if they are in the yard, and willingly back off, like these killers did, and proceed back to the street, that's a different story. If we shoot them in the back, then it's not self defense anymore.

As to why they backed off and didn't try to kill these folks, I don't know. I really don't know.

Starship, that's an interesting thought. Why didn't this guy call the police when he learned of the murders the day before? He was with the Sheriff's office, according to his wife. He should have known better.

katie8753 said...

I really think that if Sadie hadn't blabbed, they never would have figured it out.

They were going nowhere.

They never figured out the Black Dahlia.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that they wouldn't have figured it out by now, because someone else would have blabbed, but it's unlikely.

Charlie should thank Susan. Charlie chose her. Knowing her mouth. "You stupid bitch, you put me back in prison". Charlie...that's your own fault. Why did you choose Susan???


ACFisherAldag said...

Frank, I have shot at intruders with a shotgun. They ran off, so I am assuming they weren't dying. Never killed any human beings, that I know of.

Also had to shoot and kill a rabid raccoon and a dog who'd been hit by a car, to put it out of its misery.

I actually felt much worse for the raccoon and dog, than for the guys trying to break into my home.

ACFisherAldag said...

Katie, we have a similar law here in MI, at least in the country.

Nobody has ANY right to be on my property at 2 am. I will assume that they're here for malicious mischief.

Here in America (at least in some parts) we still have second amendment RIGHTS. Not a privilige, a RIGHT to defend our homes and property.

Which again leads me to the question... howcum none of these homeowners were armed?

katie8753 said...

AC, I believe that Sharon had a gun.

Roman had bought a gun.

But Sharon didn't use it.
So sad.

She could have blown them away. And it would have never happened.

I've got thru this bullshit so many fucking times.

Everyone is in their own realm, relaxing when 3 people come into the house and try to kill them.

I can't understand that. I don't understand that.

Sharon had a gun.

Voytek & Jay had more moves on Tex than he ever thought of.

How did they overcome them???
I don't get it!!!

katie8753 said...

I will never understand how those freaks took over the residents at Cielo Drive.


I just don't get it.

Ken619 said...

katie said....

"Did the killers use the hose at the front or the back of the house?"

They used the hose in the front. I'm going to assume they saw it driving up the hill or on the way back down. I couldn't imagine them tromping around behind the house looking for a hose.

toocrowdedinthishouse said...

If I understand the tale correctly, they used the faucet that is visible in the driveway (front of house). It makes sense that they would choose that faucet/hose, so close to the street in case they had to beat a quick retreat. Rudy heard the water running, chased the water thieves back to their car, tried to grab the keys, and they took off. I did not understand that they had turned around the car. As they took off, Rudy took down their license plate, being a former law enforcement type of guy. Isn't he the guy who went to work (as a waiter at the golf course just west of Bundy and San Vincente Blvd?) and talked about the hippies he chased off, and someone working with Rudy at the country club found it highly suspicious and called the police to report it? So it was the police who ultimately contacted Rudy, and he supplied them with the license plate number at that point. This was my understanding, anyway.

Ken619 said...

toocrowded said....

"I did not understand that they had turned around the car. As they took off, Rudy took down their license plate, being a former law enforcement type of guy."

They would of had to turn around, it's a dead end at the top of the hill. It seems to get narrower as you drive up Portola. There is only one way in and one way out. That's my point about turning around.

katie8753 said...

AC, our laws on protecting our property are definitely in the homeowner's court.

I see on the news all the time where a homeowner shot and killed or maimed a potential robber/home invasioner, etc. No charges are ever filed against the homeowner.

I've even seen one extreme case, wherein the homeowner chased the intruder outside and into the street, then shot him dead.

He was arrested and investigated, but later released without charges.

The message law enforcement is trying to send is, if you go on someone's property and you're not invited, you are at the homeowner's mercy.

I know that sounds extreme, but that's the way it is here.

Toocrowded: I know that Rudy gave the license plate number to the police. I can't remember what prompted that, but as Starship said, if he had only done that immediately, they could have traced the plate back to Spahn's Ranch.

It seems strange that they would stop at somebody's house to wash down. They could have done that at the Ranch. It was 1am. Who's gonna see them?

Ken: thanks for posting these pics. I just love the foliage in California. These houses tucked away in all that greenery...reminds me of a tree house!!!

fiona1933 said...

Katie, doesn't it imply that they knew them?
Examine: Abigail Folger waved at Susan as she went past. Perfectly possible Abby recognized her and spaced-out Sadie did not recognize Abby, and at the least it proves weird people went around that place all the time. I read that the Polanskis liked to pick up random street people for parties.

When Susan brought them all into the living room, she did it authoritatively. This can really work. They may have believed Susan was on their side, that something bad was going down, Susan was telling them: "Ssh! Come in the living room, don't say anything!" Again, if they were used to street people, that's probably what they thought. Not, this girl is an enemy, but this girl knows something is going on. "Don't say a word" that could mean "Keep quiet! there are intruders in the house! Quick, in the living room!" Sadie being a female would back this interpretation, double if they knew her.
Telling people to shush works very well. I read of a burglar who was doing a bedroom when the woman awoke. He put his finger to his lips, gave her an emphatic stare and slid out. She just nodded wide-eyed at him, and afterwards said she thought he was a police officer.

Then, into the living room, Sebring says: "What are you doing here?" I have put this to all my older students. They all said, it sounds as if he knew Tex. They agreed, independently, they would say: "Who are you? What do you want?" which is what Frykowski apparently said.

What if the intonation is different? Suppose it was "What are YOU doing here?" Did Sebring know Tex? Is that why Tex shot him first? Why did Sebring go for the gun like that? Again it seems as if he knew him, and rationalized that the man he knew is just a kid who won't shoot. "What are you doing here, Tex? Jesus, a gun! Give me that!" No-one just goes for a gun, surely. You'll get shot...

I strongly believe the motive is all tangled in drugs and while Voytek seems obvious, why not Jay? He used a lot of drugs. Cocaine was very expensive then. Was Jay involved in the 'mass whipping of the dope dealer" who sold bad stuff? I would love to know if that was true and who that was. Gangsters are not likely to take humiliating assaults like that lying down. Jay liked bondage, didn't he? Would this mass whipping have had an erotic charge for him?

Did that dope dealer go sobbing and raging to Spahn to see his old-friend-from-jail Charlie, and offer him money to get them? I just find it weird that this very dramatic story, involving drugs, whips and and 100 people just vaporized. It's a weird thing to make up.

So, if you thought you knew these people, and therefore didnt respond immediately, by the time Jay made a move, it was too late. Unless Jay had seized Susan and tied and gagged her and grabbed Sharon's gun, then Tex had the upper hand, he was out of his mind, acting without thought and he had a working gun.

snooproose said...

In the first pic, it looks like someone peeking out the second floor window. Is it just me or do you see someone standing there too?

johnnyseattle said...

the interesting thing to me is how close this house is to jay sebring's house. someone driving down the canyon late at night who half ass knows the street to turn on could easily miss sebring's house turn off and go one more over to portola. off all the places to stop and wash up it is weird.

meskalinko said...
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