-Darryl F. Zanuck
“Peace is inside all of us. We just need to share it.”
-Jacoba Barber-Rozema, (age 10)
So I am listening to the Nicholas Schreck interview for the third time. I have not yet read his book but it is on its way. As I sit and stare at the smoke drift away from the bowl in a slow singular fading, and twisting line, I am no longer really thinking about Mr. Schreck to be honest. My mind has started to wander. I am thinking about Johnny Ussery. I am also thinking about Doris Tate. I am thinking about AC and Star. Restless Souls is flashing through my mind and so is JimNY. All the people I have listened to, read, and argued with about this case and its questions. How many people from how many places have I encountered? How can some of them think so differently from me? What would my life have been like had I grown up in some of their situations? Who would I be today? These are the thoughts dancing around my mind. Crazy why don't I think about other people more often. I suppose it is because I can be selfish - one of my fatal flaws. I could probably cut down on the weed and Coors Lite as well but, I am sort of handsome and charming so all things being equal what are you going to do??
This Sunday night at 8 p.m. I am the guest on the Tate Labianca Radio Program on Star City Radio. I am very excited and thankful to the folks over there for letting me go on and say hello. I hope to be able to get my point of view out to a group of people who do not normally hear it. It is a chance to make a few more people aware of Johnny Ussery. I would like to talk a bit about the interview with Mr. Schreck, but please don’t think I am going on to attack a book I have not read, or a man I do not know. I do have some opinions about the interview and the ideas which were offered from Mr. Schreck, but only in relation to how they effect the much grander goal Mr. Schreck and I share of having us all slow down, take a deep breathe, and remember that we are talking about a terrible loss of life in this case. It was a tragedy all the way around. People on both sides lost quite a bit. He said some things that made sense. I also agree with Mr. Schreck that we have been lied to by our government. I think many of us come here to figure out how and why. But all too often in our little community, we have been doing more work trying to take each other out than trying to get to the very important questions which brought almost all of us here in the first place; TLB, the motive, and the cover-up. I look forward to talking about the case….
On a personal note:
I think it is time to get over the fighting among ourselves. I can only start with myself. I will go outside my comfort zone and reach out to those who feel differently from me. I will listen to anyone who wishes to be heard, and will give the respect to anyone who offers it in return. Nicholas Schreck might be a genius or he might be a joker- I don’t know. In my opinion the jury is still out. Either way- he is not the first person to come along and say he has the answers to this case, and maybe we should take a step back before we start killing each other over him. Like every other person who offers us answers, it is up to each of us to decide for ourselves how much credence we will put into what he has to say. Credibility is a fair thing to ask of anyone who is giving you such important information about a subject that you have been studying for so long. It is also true that credibility can come in a variety of ways. I am only interested in examining Nicholas Schreck's credibility in the same way and for the same reasons that I would anyone else who asks me to accept their ideas as facts in regards to motive of this case. I don’t personally discriminate against anyone who can help me, and am not interested in attacking him or anyone else personally whom is giving his best effort in an endeavor with the same objective as me. I want the truth and I don’t care who gives it to me. If Nicholas Schreck is on to something, and is proven right- I will praise him forever. No different than I would Sanders, Bugs, Terry or any of the others who have offered their idea of why this went down. If he ends up not being correct- people should not have been afraid to have questioned that either. I just want to know what is right and true? That is the way we have to start judging each other and ourselves in my opinion. Are we doing and saying things that are right and true? Are we asking fair questions, and are we spending our energies on things which really matter. We need to stop spending so much effort trying to change each others minds, and more time respecting the fact that we all have minds of our own. Every case in which two people don’t see things the same way- doesn’t have to end with both people seeing things one way. We can disagree and move on. There are many advantages to having all different types of people co-existing and interacting. People from both sides means information from both sides. Let’s here all the arguments, have respectful debates and let everyone decide for themselves how to judge the information. We can get along if we all just try to reach out to each other in friendship just a little bit.
I will go first....
Nicely put, ST. I agree with you. Answers are what I'm after too, but I don't like when my friends are attacked, or put down. Matt, Patty & Liz are my friends, not just on here, but in life and I guess one of my flaws in being loyal.Of course I count many others here as friends, but haven't been able to sit down face to face and talk with them, but for the most part I would defend anyone here from an attack. I really do hate the arguing and attacking each other, and feel that has no place here. We are all interested in the same thing, the truth. I hope someday we get to figure out what it is.
Good luck on the show!
Although I surf here I rarely post. But your thread moved me to say that yes I do concur with your sentiments. Although some folks have been hurt, I refuse to believe that some frank discussion and a few beers can't at least get folks to a TLB version of Detente. Ultimately, only those folks can make that decision. So in the spirit of 'Only Nixon can go to China' I am hoping that 'Only the Saint can breach this discord.' You are liked/respected on both sides, and you are your own man.
In addition to hearing your TLB insights, I also look forward to your coming appearance on SCR's Brian Davis Show (with the lovely and talented LC the Intern) this Sunday for purely selfish reasons:
I need to settle a bet with my SCR pal, 'King Chris.'
As 'The Saint' I am sure you will sound exactly like Roger Moore. So if you could pull that off, I would be forever in your debt...
Very well said Saint.
another excellent post ST.
The next bowl i smoke will be in your honour
While johnnyseattle and the reformed Saint are two of my favorite characters on the TLB blogs, I am going to be a bad guy here and admit that "detente" is not something I root for in the TLB world.
While I abhor personal and vicious attacks as much as the next guy, I just don't see the Charlie Manson blog world as a place of harmony and tea.
The plain truth is that the Manson story evokes both diversity of opinion and intensity of opinion. I mean think about it - there are still folk, 42 years later, who want to champion Manson as some sort of folk hero, an insightful environmentalist and so on. And there are still some who mirror Squeaky's sentiments when she said "if those doing the killing believed they were doing the right thing, then they were doing the right thing".
How the hell do you practice detente with people like that?
No, the Manson blog world is no place for Rodney King and his "can't we all just get along" naivete.
I had a friend who owned a vacuum store and he used to complain everyday about the per centage of customers who were assholes. I told him, get over yourself - that is the nature of the beast. In retail you have to deal with people being assholes.
The same principle holds true in the blog world. This isn't a midwestern spelling bee. It's a Manson blog. Folk are going to disagree and I hope disagree passionately.
Call me crazy, but I miss Dickhead and Frank and some of the other 'harsh' (for lack of a better word) characters who have stopped posting. Trying to turn a Manson blog into Mr Rogers Neighborhood is an interesting exercise. It's just not one that I support.
Kudos St. for trying to breach the divide. I agree with Leary's post that there will never be a sunshine and roses attitude between all parties. I don't think that's a bad thing either. If we all agreed on everything it would make for a boring discussion.
However I think that ad hominem attacks are counterproductive. If we stick to the facts and the evidence we will get much further than presenting opinion as fact.
My comment about can't we all just get along was not meant to say we can't disagree. How boring would this blog be if we all agreed? I just don't like the name calling, the personal attacks. Maybe I'm the one who should move on. I don't know.
You better not, Miss Stacey!
I'll be listening Saint...should be good.
How DID things get so outta hand? Patty wonders if the war between the blogs follows the same lines as the larger debate going on between the two opposing viewpoints in our nation at large. We do tend to be a bit more "liberal" than the other more conservative blogs. Neither side is willing to let the other side be even a little bit right.
Also, can she just say that "bad blog" last year took a toll on her peace of mind and caused her to become a bit paranoid. It even carried over into her personal life and so she had to take a step back. It was very difficult being bashed every day fo months and not knowing exactly where it was coming from. She would not wish that on anyone.
And, good luck, Saint.
I'll try not to Matt, but I don't like it.
I hear you Stacey. It's a true crime blog, not a gang fight. The nut cases are ignored as much as possible.they do however run people off. Sad.
Looking forward to it Saint.
Saint, I'm looking forward to getting that information from you telling me how I can listen to your time on the radio. Go get 'em, my friend! We're all with you.
Well, at least Panamint Patty is speaking in the third person again.
I was never a fan of all this I and Me bullshit. Oooops, I did it myself.
See you at the Brian Davis show. Even if the audio doesn't work, where better to spend a Sunday evening?
Seriously, I don't like to post comments when people are battling stuff out on the blog; I don't want to get sucked into the vortex of harshness and bad vibes. Besides, someone might call me a bad name again and my feelings might get hurt. Boo hoo.
I wanted to comment on Saint Circumstance's post a few days ago. I am also a person who never believed that Charlie went to Cielo a few hours after the killings, in order to check out the crime scene: he might have planted the pair of glasses, moved bodies out the front door and back again to the living room, stuff like that. He said he did in his book. So what? Charlie says a lot of things. But he was an experienced criminal who knew to never return to a crime scene like that, so I have always highly doubted that it happened. So many people seem convinced that he visited Cielo (with one other unnamed person?), and I admit that it makes a good horror story. I never really knew that there were others, besides myself, who doubted this tale, so I thank Saint for sharing his opinion with us.
Thank you, St. Circumstance.
To me, and to many others who accept that ATWA is important, the case takes a back seat to Charles Manson's environmental message.
It doesn't matter if that message was around forty years ago... it might have been, or it may have been a more recent idea. It may have been original, or expanding on others' thought. What's crucial is that the environmental message is here NOW.
It may or may not be important to find out the facts of the case, to determine the truth. Surely it is critical to the friends and loved one of those who lost their lives. I maintain that it was a drug burn, and that the message in THAT is for us to control our desire for mood altering substances. But even that isn't as important as ATWA.
The main message, the vital thought that I've taken from the words of Charles Manson is that we rely on our biosphere, our Earth, for our lives. Without Air, without Water, we will not survive, so we'd best do all we can to redeem these life-giving elements.
We must stop activities that harm our Earth. Activities which will damage and maybe even destroy the essential elements of life. Find new ways to have creature comforts and still maintain a healthy environment.
I'm hoping that people who come to read about the case, to ponder who done it, and why, can take away just one thought... consider what they can do, personally, immediately, to save and redeem our Earth. We all have to live here.
AC I am happy to hear from you :)
For sure- before my own interest in TLb brought me to the chat rooms- I was not mindful of the ATWA mission, and for sure you have done an excellent job of putting it in everyone's mind...
I wish I could take back a couple of things I have said to you in the past. In many ways you have been the classier person than I.
Very well put Saint, Thank you for being the first from this website to go on TLB"S radio show to work together on this case and the truth of the case….. I admire you greatly for that. I can't wait to hear your take on everything and remember, we are in this together! Thanks again and can't wait for tonight! Peace and Light…
I'll be listening to Saint tonight...hope ur there too AC.
Chris, I could be wrong, but I think Matt and Patty have been on that show
Matt went on once, Patty never has. She's not brave enough.
Stacey...I totally agree with you, I too hate the personal attacks. But I also think Matt, and Lynyrd over on his blog, do a helluva job maintaining ship.
I think I didn't make my point correctly. What I believe is that Charlie Manson, not matter what else he was/is - be it a musicial talent, a guru, a prophet, a pimp, a mass murderer etc. - at the very least Manson is a collassal asshole. He raped another boy at knifepoint, he pimped women, he beat women, he stole and cheated and a thousand other things.
But the one thing I do admire about Manson is that he is an asshole who KNOWS he is an asshole. Look at the tapes over on youtube where Charlie talks about what a nasty person he is, what an outlaw, how he could kill you as easily as walking to the drugstore and so on. Others, like Tex, have tried to recolor themselves and deny their assholeness. But Manson embraces his inner asshole. He knows that we all have a bit of asshole in us, he just goes full throtle.
The point being, if Manson is first and utmost an asshole then blogs about Manson will likely attract folk with personal issues and limited social skills and anger issues and so on. Assholes attract assholes, I guess.
To survive in blog world I think one has to adopt the adage that it takes all types and not get bent out of shape when a negative vibe comes their way. Just part of the game.
Leary, you are a wise man.
I agree with you Leary. To be quite honest when I read all the negative comments I wasn't in a good mood and it just was like the last straw. I was thinking I have enough drama in the real world, I don't need it here too. But I love what you said about Charlie being an Asshole. You are right about that, and I will work on learning to just realize this world takes all kinds...and for the record I meant no harm or disrespect to anyone here, it's not my style.
A round of tequila on me Stacey!
Man, there are some really cool women on this blog. I sure do love me some fiesty and soulful females.
Buy em all another round on me, Matt. I'll even be the designated driver.
Things get interesting when Stacey gets the tequila flowing. Jesus graced El Coyote's ladies room last time!
Matt the last time we drank tequila together I saw Jesus! I'm afraid to think what I'd see this time!
Go for Shorty Shea. We'll find out once and for all what time of day the murder took place!
Great Job Saint!
You did wonderful on Brian's show.
Hope you do it again.
is it still going on?
yes. but he is doing fine.
Good Job Saint.
I never thought of my few postings on the Manson blogs as 'harsh'. One reason that some of the 'older' (in all senses of the word, in my case) posters have stopped posting may have been because that couldn't [or didn't feel they needed to] put up with the gratuitous opprobium that greeted every second post they made.
But I do agree with you that Manson blogs by their very nature attract weirdoes like shit attracts flies, and the views and behaviour of some posters make it hard to want to extend an olive branch ...
... and this in the full knowledge that my own postings will have a similar effect on others.
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