Monday, November 25, 2019

Gary Hinman Murder Location







44 comments:

Doug said...

Okay...am I confused here...

1. Methamphetamine or MESCALINE? (Meth DOES make more sense for a Motorcycle Gang in '69...but, hasn't it been historically documented as mescaline?)

2. $5000(!!!???) Isn't it $1000?

Maybe these prescriptions muscle relaxants are getting to me...

Fayez Abedaziz said...

Brother Charlie and everybody:
in 8 acts of- the freedom of fun to literally crash then burn to just:
Dust In The Wind
1967, stage left, enter 33 year old not a hippie Charlie, welcome to the high and love of the Haight
1- Free rides, California and into Spahn Ranch-2 years of livin' it up
seasons in the sun
2- the criminal, low, nasty business of dealing drugs and violence with psycho Tex and the shooting of a dirty drug thug Lottastupid in beautiful 1969 L.A.
3- Gary Hinman, (from Colorful Colorado) completely innocent, a kind soul, a good man, sold no drugs.
Bobby Beausoleil, rather a punk and ignorant, like most of the 'men' at Spahn, in the 'communal' family, attacks Gary and kills the poor fellow.
What the hell!?
yet, the downward spiral continued and, it gets better, enter acts 4-8 in Santa Susana and here too, soon

Unknown said...

Doug you are right on both accounts. This narrator knew absolutely nothing about his topic.

Matthew said...



I thought that it was Lottsapoppa that said he would come and kill everyone at the ranch if he didn't get his money, not the straight satins. Thinking the straight satins only threatened Bobby

vettboss said...
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vettboss said...
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vettboss said...

Hi Guys,
Sorry for the confusion in narration. I have read so many different theories on hinman that they sometimes run together. It was "Mescaline" that was purchased and the amount was $1000 according to Jeff Guinn's book. Charlie supposedly demanded that Bobby get $2,000 from Hinman for the trouble. I have read$1k, $2k and $5k depending on the sources.

Yes, Lotsapoppa told Charlie he would come down to the ranch and kill everyone there.

I thought I had read that the straight satans had threatened everyone at the ranch, but after looking through a lot of my reading materials I cannot find it. Mathew is correct that they did supposedly threaten Bobby.

Once again, Sorry for the confusion.

BTW... If you decide to go see the home, please be very careful. There is nowhere to park and you cannot see cars coming around the corners on this section of Topanga.

vettboss said...

That is the main reason I follow this blog. There are some very well informed readers and commenters here.

vettboss said...

There used to be another Manson site that is now defunct as the owner of the site has passed away. (Not Bill Nelson)

Anyway the owner of the site Shared a tabloid story with me that involved Gary's wife being at the home when Bobby and crew showed up. Apparently, Gary told his wife to go hide in some bushes behind the house. Has anyone else ever heard this before? It appeared to come from a UK tabloid paper.

vettboss said...
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kraut_iznota_knotsy said...

Nearly worthless. Why was this even posted? :P

vettboss said...

The reason I ask is if Gary Hinman asked his wife to hide outside then he must have known trouble was coming his way. It might also mean that he knew the mescaline that he had sold to Bobby was bad....

Dan S said...

Gary has a wife?

starviego said...

vettboss said...
... he knew the mescaline that he had sold to Bobby was bad....

There never was any mescaline.

Fayez Abedaziz said...

In The Summertime: only Mungo Jerry ain't around.
Let's grab that, steal it, after all, everything's for everyone, dig it?
Yeah, cool, except, well, till the morning of August 16 came around which is when Fayez was born in the holy land and Elvis died.
Helicopters swooping down, cars screeching and turning round and round, guns drawn,
shouting just like raids going on in Vietnam.
Well Charlie, what's going on, where's this fit in the plans. Everyone's arrested, sooner or later, suspicion from the law will be a permanent one, the end is guaranteed now, to come around.
5-A warm, mellow evening in Benedict Canyon and Benedict means blessed in Latin.
What are you doing here, Susan? Don't you know that the only difference between the light of life and day and midnight's darkness is only hours away?
And time is one thing you can't turn around.
And didn't Sharon look up at you and think, I would have helped a girl like you.
How could you do this to me?
Night and day and night again for this nightmare opera play and we're wavering round and now were at Waverly.
Here you are sitting in this car, you, cute Susan and pretty eyes Leslie.
Later, you looked in the mirror and asked yourself, then thought of Charlie and asked, too...how could you do this to me?

Fayez Abedaziz said...

That, just before 'In The Summertime,' should have been-4- as in act 4, thanks

vettboss said...

Blogger Dan S said...
Gary has a wife?

From what I understand he was married at one time. It is hard to find any info on Gary's wife. They may have been separated or divorced, I don't know. I do not know if he was still married at the time of his murder.

Anyway, The article that I saw stated that Gary told his wife to hide when he saw Booby coming up to the door. The article was written from Gary's wifes perspective. She said she ran out the back of the house and hid in some bushes.

I had never heard this story before or since but it was in some old tabloid. I doubt the version is credible because Booby and the girls were in Gary's house for a few days. I can't see his wife hiding for a few days, unless she snuck away.

Has anyone ever heard this story?

vettboss said...


Blogger starviego said...
There never was any mescaline.

I have no idea if there was any mescaline or not, but it would give Gary reason to tell his wife to hide.

Fayez Abedaziz said...

Act 6-Did you think about how August of '69 was ending?
It is where we have yet another moral failing.
'Tough' guys gang up on a working guy Donald Shea and murder him.
Thug Davis and caveman Clem Grogan and the continuing delusional Charlie, out of control, thinking you can keep getting away with crime after crime and again?
Act 7-Here's the road, out to the desert, to go live there? What's the use?
Some time goes by, then what?
Are you all, you too, Paul ( I like screwing Ruth Ann and Diane, especially) Watkins,
just dumber besides being high and higher?
Your life just gets grubbier.
Well, whatever, here's Barker's and here's Myer's. Come and get it.
Well, y'all, while were here, let's threaten people and vandalize a government owned road construction loader. And set fire to it. Charlie's smiling as he looks at the strange Davis and ugly Clem, the suckers, the idiots.
Aha, desert rats, and we ain't talking about the North African campaigns with Rommel and that fun time in the party there. No, we're talking about the mornings of beautiful dawns across the Panamint Range and Mr. Blue Sky's up there saying...oh oh...the laws here, it's October 10 then it's October 12.
Have a seat in the sheriff and rangers cars Charlie, Patricia, Leslie, Susan.
We'll be over to the jail in time for lunch, oh, no problem, we'll get you a pack of cigarettes sa su...what was your name again?
Susan, she said, looking out the window, wondering where the hell they were going.
Brother Charlie, who apparently forgot that the law has long arms and keeps records and has patience, well, he and the three girls, sweet Leslie, cute Susan and nice, shiny thick hair Patricia, will soon be in L.A., having good times in furnished rooms in the big old courthouse and coffee and water (and a book of matches for Susan's cigarettes) courtesy of the courtroom and the nice, friendly bailiffs and lady sheriffs' deputies.
And everyone kept looking at Susan's smooth legs. They didn't know how right they were to notice. if only they knew the experience of feeling them.


Matthew said...

I would have to say that there is no way Gary had a wife in the bushes. I have read probably every book written on the subject and never saw any mention of a wife in the bushes. I do recall on many occasions reading that Gary lived alone and allowed "friends" to stay when in transition such as Bobby. First of all, why would Gary Hide his wife from his "friends"? And if he was concerned about the visit enough to have her hide, why would she not get him help. They were there for days. And if he did have a wife in the bushes, why did it take so long for anyone to discover the body? This would have come up many times before. Also, the way the house is set on the hill, it seems that someone coming onto the property would see someone leaving the house. I just googled Gary Hinman's wife on google and nothing comes up. He does not have a wikepedia page, which surprised me. So, I don't think he had a wife. I did read before that he was gay or at least bi but don't know that for sure.

vettboss said...

Great Points Mathew. It was probably just a scandal magazine. I have had the same issues with the article.

vettboss said...

This is strange... I looked up Gary A Hinman on ancestry.com

1. Gary appears to be listed in their Marriage index as having a spouse named Gloria D Rock

2. Gary appears to also be listed in their divorce index as having been married to a Gloria D Cook

I did not purchase a membership to get into the members area of ancestry.com so I am not 100% sure it is the same Gary Hinman.

Gorodish said...

Fayez Abedaziz typed:

Act 6-Did you think about how August of '69 was ending?
It is where we have yet another moral failing.
'Tough' guys gang up on a working guy Donald Shea and murder him.
Thug Davis and caveman Clem Grogan and the continuing delusional Charlie, out of control, thinking you can keep getting away with crime after crime and again?

Act 7-.........Well, y'all, while were here, let's threaten people and vandalize a government owned road construction loader. And set fire to it. Charlie's smiling as he looks at the strange Davis and ugly Clem, the suckers, the idiots.


Nice prose there Fayez, but you left out the main culprit in these two crimes. It should read "Thug Davis, caveman Clem Crogan, and the deranged, drug-addled pyscho Tex Watson.

Fayez Abedaziz said...

Gorodish,

You're quite right about Tex, that I mentioned in a previous Act as a psycho.
He was there, attacking Shea, as was creepy, twisted face Bill Vance ( was it a requirement that, except for brother Paul Watkins, all males at Resort Spahn Manson hadda be goofy and /or ugly looking? And greasy, like DeCarlo? Of course even Paul wasn't as good looking as me, but I digress...)
Larry Bailey was there too, the little weasel.
He was creeping around spying on old man Spahn's house and Lynette and at a friend of Shea's, Wanda, at her home and Shea and a friend there, took Larry, stripped the stupid sissy naked and tied him to a tree! I thought that was funny as hell and right.
Few things are worse than a creepy snitch walking around.He was spying to see, for Charlie, who may be talking to the law. Whatever, a freak show.
If I was there and saw what they were about to do to Shea, I woulda dropped those a- hole's faces into the ground quick. With a weapon and my Taekwondo.
Also, Act 8 is coming up very soon here, as our dear friends, dashing Charlie and the 3 babes are waltzing into court. I can hardly wait to read what I wrote, after I write it. (who says you don't have lsd flashbacks after some years...)
signed,
dear Fayez

John Seger said...

I have never heard that Gary Hinman had a wife. I've read many books and documentaries, and the trial.

Fayez Abedaziz said...

Act 8-
Hello, how are ya, good then,
in 2007, when I found that Sadie was Susan, from July, '69, from vids and clips
-it was the evening of the day and as I watched and thought the tears came by-
(paraphrase of Mick Jagger's 'As Tears Go By,')

You know, you gotta be melody deaf to play again and again the same boring, actually irritating songs: Sexy Sadie, Blackbird and freakin' screeching Helter Skelter.
Messages or not. These songs were fillers in albums, as studio guys will tell ya.
Don't get shook friends,The Beatles are my favorite musicians, with ELO.
So, the trial was set for the accused, Charlie, Susie, Patty and Leslie.
The gang from Spahn said, at different times, "it was done for 'love' of brother."
That was why some actions were taken, including the murders at the Tate and at the LaBianca houses. Are we to understand that's what you meant family members?
Really? So it's okay to kill innocent people for sleazy Bobby stupid cupid?
And, it's okay that he killed Gary Hinman? So, we wanna get him outta jail?
Spare me.
I don't believe it for a second- that was one of the rationales, and one of several reasons, not the no. 1 reason Charlie sent 'em to Cielo.
Who wasn't expendable at El Rancho Spahn?
Few of 'em. For Charlie life woulda just gone on, as it would have for the others.
Besides, how long was there to be a 'family' as it was at cabaret Spahn?
1 or 3 more years and most of 'em woulda vamonosed by then, to 'greener grass,' another place and life. No Cielo or Waverly and we would never have heard of them.
Now, in the year of our lord, 1970, we walk to the courtroom.
There's Charlie, Patricia, Leslie and Susan. (oh la la)
Hold the door, okay open it back up, the four are going to their new lifetime condos, their new home-to prison! How about that! Good work Bobby, Charlie,Tex and the genius girls. Aren't we so loyal? Well, how can it all end? Well, it so happens that Spahn ranch was burned down too!
Freedom, then crashes, then burning: literally.
Later, as the sun shone down and spread across the prison yard in California's beautiful summer(at the time it was, anyway) Susan sat and began praying for a stairway to heaven.
How could she have known that crooked, bended roads have these kind of ends?

Rock N. Roll said...

We need one of our excellent researchers to investigate this.
This the first time I’ve heard of a wife as well.

Doug said...

I would tend to think that any "wife" of Hinman's would've - at the very least - been interviewed (if not brought forth during Bobby's trial as a character witness).

No wife in the Bush...like she stayed there 2-3 days???

No chance.

He *might* have been married at some point (Personally, I doubt it) but no wife at 964

Dan S said...

Good Faulkner stream of consciousness family jam there. Mostly i agree except i bet clem was a very talented musician and Charlie probably respected him. Paul was a jammer too but i think you got him down pretty good. The musical aspect of the family dynamic is important. Hence "Booby" Beusun at the top of the hierarchy and tent dweller typewriter stealer stabby "crazy" "tex" at the bottom. Tex s motive was "wanna outdo a brother".
You steal 1 typewriter, twatson steals twenty.
You kill one, Twatson kills 7
You use two girls; I'll have 4
Music and sex. Sadie Mae had the latter in spades.

starviego said...

He had an ex-wife named Gloria is all I know.

Chanel said...

Here is an interesting story about Gary:

https://buddhajim.wordpress.com/2014/01/30/how-i-met-buddha-the-untold-story-of-the-manson-family-murders/

That story mentions Gary's exwife, it also provides some background into the relationships between Gary and the Manson Family. Gary was at odds with the family as they were trying to extort the neighbourhood in the name of peace and love. Maybe their conflict was never about a drug deal.

Personally, I see the story of Bobby having to collect his $1,000 from Gary because the drugs were bad as a BS story. I do not believe that you could sell bad drugs to a biker gang, making several of them sick and the bikers only request their money back.

beauders said...

Hinman had an ex-wife according to my research. For those of you interested there is a dvd copy of "Sympathy For The Devil" the Process Documentary. This is a must for anyone interested in The Process and want the true story. I saw it in a theater in it's one play in Portland and it was great. These don't come up very often and I'm not the seller just wanted you guys to know.

Matthew said...

Blogger Chanel said...

Here is an interesting story about Gary
There were so many inaccuracies in this story just in the first couple paragraphs that I could just not get through it. For example
1) It said that Helter Skelter had been written on the walls at both crime scenes. I was written at one crime scene and on a fridge, not a wall. And it was spelled wrong
2) It said that 3 days after the Tate murders was when the family went to visit Rosemary and Leno.
3) It said that Spahn Ranch was in Topanga Hills. To my knowledge, there is no Topanga Hills. There is a Topanga Canyon and that is, I think in Woodland Hills
4) It said that the family members all carved swastikas on their foreheads. They X'd their foreheads and only Manson, later, changed his X into a swastika.
5) It said that Manson was absent at all the crime scenes. We all know better than that.
6) Again, it said that Helter Skelter was written on the wall at the Sharon Tate residence
7) It said that Gary's ear was severed. It was sliced along with his cheek but not cut off.
8) It said that after the ear was cut off that his throat was slashed. No. He was stabbed to death in the chest
9) It said that Death to Pigs was written on the wall of Hinman's house. Nope. Was political Piggies. Death to PIgs was on the Labianca wall.

All of that was just in the first few paragraphs so who knows how many after as I could not read anymore of it. Trump knows more about facts than whoever wrote this.

starviego said...

Chanel said...
"Gary was at odds with the family as they were trying to extort the neighbourhood in the name of peace and love."

Yes, and police investigators would have quickly learned of this dispute in their door-to-door canvas of neighbors, which would have made Manson the top suspect right away.

But once again Charlie was given a pass. They had greater things in store for him.

Chanel said...

Matthew: The guy writing it, is not a Manson expert. He does get many things wrong on the case, just as many of the published experts do.

What is of interest is that he is giving his account of his time with Gary. Most of what I have read of Gary comes from his killers and his killers friends.

starviego said...

Matthew said...
"There were so many inaccuracies in this story just in the first couple paragraphs..."

The obvious errors imo gives more credibility to Dinwiddie's account. He didn't study the case and try to make up stuff based upon what he read.

prefeteria said...

I agree with starviego.

Interesting that this person buddhajim claims to have had a conversation with Hinman and a neighbor about the dangers posed by Manson’s group, and also claims to have met the actual murderers and witnessed a dispute between them and Hinman. Yet upon learning of Hinman’s murder, buddhajim never even suspected these people of the murder, nor came forward to the authorities as a material witness? Nor did the neighbor who claimed to have heard a threat about Hinman “getting chopped”?

starviego said...

prefeteria said...
Yet upon learning of Hinman’s murder, buddhajim never even suspected these people of the murder, nor came forward to the authorities as a material witness? Nor did the neighbor who claimed to have heard a threat about Hinman “getting chopped”?

When Dinwiddie found out about Hinman's death, Beausoleil had already been arrested, so he may not have felt the cops needed his own testimony. And most likely the neighbors had already been interviewed by cops, so they didn't feel the need to come forward.

Matthew said...

prefeteria said
The obvious errors imo gives more credibility to Dinwiddie's account. He didn't study the case and try to make up stuff based upon what he read

I see your point. I just think that if I were going to write something about a true life event I would get the facts on the case before writing my story or I would just leave what I don't know out. I don't think that you need to be an expert on the case to have these simple facts. But that is just me. After reading your thoughts on this I did go back and read the article. It is interesting.

grimtraveller said...

Dan S said...

Gary has a wife?

Matthew said...

I don't think he had a wife

John Seger said...

I have never heard that Gary Hinman had a wife. I've read many books and documentaries, and the trial

Rock N. Roll said...

This the first time I’ve heard of a wife as well

Doug said...

I would tend to think that any "wife" of Hinman's would've - at the very least - been interviewed....He *might* have been married at some point (Personally, I doubt it) but no wife at 964

During Bobby's first trial, it came out as part of the testimony on 14th November '69 that he had a wife from whom he was divorced or separated and with whom he wanted to be reconciled. His boss, Glenn Krell, testified that "He had been married and divorced, had girl friends, and to my knowledge was chanting for reconciliation with his wife." It's an interesting read, the trial transcript. At that point, it was only starting to dawn on people who the TLB killers were/might be and the cops were at that point connecting certain dots. They didn't know Tex, Bugliosi wasn't even on the case at this point, Manson hadn't been charged with murder etc. Al Springer's interview had given them some important pointers and when put together with Charlie on the suspect list, seemingly disparate threads were starting to weave a recognizable fabric. As daft as Bobby was immediately on getting arrested, he could actually have walked had the events of November '69 not blown up as they did.

starviego said...

The obvious errors imo gives more credibility to Dinwiddie's account. He didn't study the case and try to make up stuff based upon what he read

Star, did you read the 9 points Matthew made that caused him to doubt the veracity of Dinwiddie's account ? To say that those kind of errors gives his account more credibility frankly, stretches credulity. I'm trying to work out if that's a symptom of the "post truth/fake news" era we live in or whether you're actually the kind of lawyer I'd definitely want in my corner if I was on trial for my life. If I'm in trouble, forget about "calling Paul," I'm calling you !
I don't believe Dinwiddie but in saying that, I don't believe the guy who this year said he was driving the white sports car and I don't believe the woman who claims she was creepy crawled by the Family the weekend after TLB and I don't believe the hairdresser friend of Jay Sebring etc. There are so many "et ceteras."
There's just something about this case beyond any other I've ever come across that seems to compel people to come forward for their time in the sunlight. The Beatles' story is one of the few comparable and gets spicier the longer time goes on. Coincidence ?


grimtraveller said...

Chanel said...

Matthew: The guy writing it, is not a Manson expert. He does get many things wrong on the case, just as many of the published experts do

It is true that he isn't an expert. But he offers information that supposedly lends weight to his story and the idea is to show the Manson troupe in as negative a light as he can get away with.
As a juxtaposition, and I have no way of knowing or even proving this, but he states that Gary's throat was slashed and his ear severed ~ which, incidentally, Guv'nor Gavin Newsom does in his justifications in turning down Bobby's parole. Dinwiddie's tale had been out since 2006. Funny, that ?
A person does not need to be anywhere close to an expert in order to get some simple facts correct. Yes, some published "experts" do get info wrong, badly wrong at times. But that also has to be looked at in context. And where something falls outside of the realm of an opinion based piece, a question based piece, or, just by the sheer weight of information attached to the case where some little errors are understandable {almost permissable}, then that writer's credentials take a huge battering. Mind you, in saying that, even Dianne Lake and Paul Watkins sometimes leave much to be desired in the accurate facts stakes.

Matthew said...

Grimtraveller, I think you make my point much better than I can. You can state something as an opinion if you are talking about motive, but when it comes to actual forensics, there is no reason for inaccuracies. The writings on the wall are what they are and the extent to Hinman's injuries is what it is.

Trilby said...

A piece of trivial info that I found interesting, maybe you guys will too: According to a then-resident of the Cyn; Linda Rondstadt lived in the house next door to Hinman in '68-'69 time frame, & I'm told she still lived there at the time of his murder.

Also, here's a link to pics (32 total) of the remodeled/expanded house from the last time it sold, for anyone who's interested:

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/964-Old-Topanga-Canyon-Rd_Topanga_CA_90290_M12738-65614#photo0

Trilby said...

"Ronstadt"... geez. :(
Sorry for not proofreading before posting. :(
One of my favorite singers so you'd think I could spell her name correctly...