Friday, May 29, 2020

Laurel Canyon Docuseries

Another Epix offering. A docuseries beginning Sunday, May 31.

Laurel Canyon






'Laurel Canyon': Mamas and the Papas singer on the 'very big highs and lows' of '60s music scene
Patrick Ryan
USA TODAY/ May 29 2020

Original Article

Imagine living right down the street from Joni Mitchell, The Byrds and Modern Folk Quartet.

Those were just a few of Michelle Phillips' famous neighbors in Los Angeles' Laurel Canyon in the late 1960s and early '70s, where she co-founded folk group The Mamas and the Papas with then-husband John Phillips, Denny Doherty and Cass Elliot.

"Cass had an open-door policy – anybody could swing by her place any time," Phillips says. "They'd smoke a joint, drink some wine and play their guitars. That's how she got Crosby, Stills & Nash together: She heard them all singing (separately) and said, 'You guys should sing together.' And that's how that happened."

The Mamas and the Papas members Michelle Phillips, left, and Cass Elliot, in a still from Epix documentary "Laurel Canyon."
The musical renaissance that sprung out of this idyllic mountainside neighborhood is the subject of two-part docuseries "Laurel Canyon," premiering on Epix Sunday (9 EDT/PDT) and concluding June 7. The documentary paints an intimate portrait of the friendships, love affairs, collaborations – and sometimes all three – that defined this place and time.

More:'David Crosby: Remember My Name' reveals a musician trapped in his own kind of hell

Graham Nash, for instance, wrote the wistful "Our House" at Mitchell's Laurel Canyon home, which the then-couple shared. The Doors were the house band at nearby nightclub Whiskey A Go Go before they hit big, and Peter Tork was roommates with Stephen Stills pre-The Monkees fame. (In fact, it was Stills who helped get him the gig.)

"What was so unique about Laurel Canyon at that time was just how many of the artists who were there became really influential musicians – it's the music of our lives even still to this day," director Alison Ellwood says. "It was a really fun process of discovery, finding the myriad ways these artists connected and interacted with each other."

Joni Mitchell, left, and Graham Nash, who dated from 1968 to 1970.

The docuseries features a slew of new interviews with artists who called the community home, including Jackson Browne, Don Henley, Linda Ronstadt and Bonnie Raitt. It also features never-before-seen images from photographers Henry Diltz and Nurit Wilde, and home footage and recordings from some musicians' personal archives.

Phillips, now the last-living member of The Mamas and the Papas, is featured prominently throughout the documentary. She recalls the night John woke her up to write the band's now-signature hit "California Dreamin'," which came to him in his sleep. She also gets candid about their tumultuous relationship, when he temporarily kicked her out of the group shortly after they separated, upon learning she was dating The Byrds' Gene Clark.

"It was a really fun time, but all very dramatic, with very big highs and lows," says Phillips, 75, who transitioned into acting in the early '70s.





She prefers not to discuss Charles Manson, an aspiring rocker-turned-cult leader who attended at least one party at Elliot's house before orchestrating the murders of actress Sharon Tate and six others in 1969. ("Even after all this time, it just makes me want to cry," Phillips says.) The singer gets similarly emotional talking about Elliot, fondly known as "Mama Cass," who died of heart failure in 1974 at just 32.

"It was a huge loss for everybody," Phillips says. "She had such a stage presence. So funny and quick on her feet. She always had the audience in the palm of her hand."

Joni Mitchell, left, and Cass Elliot. Mitchell's 1970 album "Ladies of the Canyon" was inspired by Laurel Canyon, a music mecca in the Hollywood Hills during the late '60s and '70s.

The Mamas and the Papas were together for only 2½ years, but left an indelible mark on folk music in a short amount of time. In addition to "California Dreamin'," which has been streamed nearly 240 million times on Spotify, they scored Top 5 hits on the Billboard Hot 100 chart including "Monday, Monday," "Creeque Alley" and "Dedicated to the One I Love." And in 1998, the band was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

"I would never have become a singer if it hadn't been for John," Phillips says. "Really, all I wanted to do was dress up in a cute cocktail dress, put my hair up, drink a Brandy Alexander, have a Marlboro, and be the bandleader's girlfriend. That's what I thought I had in front of me."

88 comments:

ColScott said...

facile/simple/boring

Fayez Abedaziz said...

Ha
... there are so many statements here that are so laughably untrue
that I will demolish soon. You will see.

I'm getting a new computer.
Typing on a phone is a pain.
Have a nice evening and a cup of coffee.

Dan S said...

Would you name just one untrue thing that you are referring to? That Charlie orchestrated the murders? That there were only 6 murders? That calling mama cass's death a "huge loss" is a tasteless fat joke like "hamburger Hoyt" (i know about the lsd dosing but it's funnier cuz she's fat)?

Peter said...

That Stephen Stills was in the Monkees.

gina said...

Nobody said Stills was in the Monkees. But I believe he did audition. He was told that the gap between his teeth was too big and asked if he had any friends who might fit the bill. He sent Peter and the rest is history.

orwhut said...

The first photo is one of the best I ever saw of Cass. Michelle probably couldn't take a bad photo, in those days.

gina said...

Astounding. Best I've ever seen about this subject. Charlie is on next week, but do NOT miss the first episode!

Doug said...

Can't watch in Canaduh 🤬

DebS said...

Hopefully it will popup on YouTube or something soon.

HellzBellz said...

Yeahhhh...Nice , Not available in Your Country..

ColScott said...

Off topic

Anyone read Squeaky's REFLEXION?

I was cleaning up today and putting it on a shelf and reread the ending where she described the Barker Raid and says Charlie was not there.

This is a lie

Why?

Vera Dreiser said...

Learn, Col:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CA3aMISpAZO/

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J36xPWBLcG8

TabOrFresca said...

ColScott,

I believe Lyn was referring to October 10 and Charlie was not there until October 12.

Peter said...

Helter Skelter is coming down fast brothers and sisters !

ColScott said...

TAB- Thank you I was just not tracking her confusing writing style

Vera you Stanky Twat-

You owe me 13:27 of my life back girl. I saw that it was O'Neill and even though he is a certifiable loon who spent 20 years rewriting Maury Terry FFS I listened.

Premise- Hey dude 51 years ago do you remember Jay complaining about his new cable? Yeah? Now since this is pre fucking historic cable is it possible that maybe the cable guy was inept? No? Definitely was cut? That sounds nefarious. I think I gotta blame the people who are meanies and will not release these tapes that I really wanna hear.

In EVERY version of motive, Cielo was chosen because some of the killers had been there before. NONE of the killers had been to Easton.

Vera I am a fool because I lost some time to your nonesense.

Vera Dreiser said...

Sumbuddy be REAL jealous of ONeill!

Matthew said...

ColScott said:

In EVERY version of motive, Cielo was chosen because some of the killers had been there before. NONE of the killers had been to Easton.

Yeah, I am not buying for a minute that the killers were ever at Sebrings house. It makes no sense. They were not out for Sebring or Tate. Manson had a hate for the Cielo house, some had been there before and Manson wasn't a rock star yet. This is really reaching for new theories. All the fucked up stars aligned on the Cielo drive house and that is the history of it. My opinion anyway.

grimtraveller said...

Vera Dreiser said...

Sumbuddy be REAL jealous of ONeill!

He really isn't. And even you are on record espousing exactly the same views as the Col on this one, if not with the same words.

Vera Dreiser said...

After reading the book I've transitioned Grimmy. You should too. I can admit I was wrong, CAN U?

grimtraveller said...

I've been wrong about a number of things and I'll admit them openly. Just ask Chris Till.

Vera Dreiser said...

Then read the book now and see if you've been wrong about it rather than making the mistake of constantly criticizing it based on what you've read others say about it. There's your challenge, Grim!

ColScott said...

Yes the book- he spends week harassing a BARBER about what might have happened 50 years ago and then, worse, takes him at his word.

Laughable.


For the Record, Twat, I wanted the book to be amazing. I wanted his obnoxious stalking of people to have been worthwhile. I WANTED Dumb Tom to succeed so I could stop obsessing over this goddamn case.

I did not for a second think he lack the ability to review facts that he did. I can give Patty shit BUT when she bothers too she is able to discern fact from reality. Getting facts is a talent. Understanding what you are reading is much harder and more important.

English Dumb Dumb Piu Eatwell got access to LAPD files and wrote a new book solving the Black Dahlia murder. Except she was too stupid to understand what she was reading. Short answer : 1949 several years post murder- There was a massive effort to incriminate Leslie Dillon as the killer for a lot of byzantine reasons but MOST IMPORTANTLY 1/3 of LAPD were gonna look like morons if he didn't do it. They spent ages trying to nail him and failed because- he didn't do it. Eatwell gets the files and then doesn't know what she is reading and says LOOK they got him.


This is Tom O in a nutshell. Terry Melcher told me to go fuck my self (probably a daily thing for Tom) and BUG told me to go fuck myself therefore they conspired to do ....something...I just know it.

Sometimes Tom people just want you to go fuck yourself.

Vera Dreiser said...

Sumbuddy VERY VERY jealous (of O'Neill) and VERY VERY illiterate!
xoxoxoxo.
Very Vera!

Panamint Patty said...

Backhanded compliment from the Col: even Patty isn't as dumb as Tom O'Neill. Well, thank you (I think). That's better than I usually get.

Vera Dreiser said...

Patty immediately kisses the [fill-in-the-adjective] ass of her constant abuser because he throws her sorry self a bone. Vera LOVES it!!!

ColScott said...

Patty- I have always found you to be clever and on point when you are discussing things. I was very mad at your disrespectful behavior. You are smart. Tom is smart- he just has a major glitch, cannot process information correctly

Vera- Of course literacy would be something you would get wrong

ColScott said...

Vera- when parts of your labia start snapping off like last year's wishbone (in your case) it might be time to figure out why your life is the way it is

Peter said...

Get a room you two.

ColScott said...

with rats in it

Vera Dreiser said...

Vera's a helluva lot sexier, smarter and, most importantly, knowledgeable about this case than Col who hasn't proven ANYTHING new or interesting despite dedicating his sad life to it.
xoxoxoox

Peter said...

Whatever blows up your skirt.

orwhut said...

The story of the murders is on Dateline right now 8:19 EST.

ColScott said...

repeat

orwhut said...

Virginia Graham is on the show and from her apparent age she's still alive.

orwhut said...

Thanks Col.
The melodious voice of guy who narrated it grates on my nerves and I don't usually watch his work so, I hadn't seen it before. Virginia Graham might be dead by now along with Barbara Hoyt and some others who came on after her.

Dan S said...

The word you meant to use was knowledgeabler

grimtraveller said...

Vera Dreiser said...

Then read the book now and see if you've been wrong about it rather than making the mistake of constantly criticizing it based on what you've read others say about it

I'd be seriously grateful to you if you can find just one statement I've made on any blog or site criticizing the book. Come to think of it, I'd be pretty surprised too.

Cooltide said...

Looks like the "Laurel Canyon Docuseries" has been told to "Go Fuck Itself"

Matt said...

Peter they’d only need a single bed.

Panamint Patty said...

I see no ass kissing. And oh oh I didn't realize that you were perfect vera, with no obvious character flaws. Lmao

starviego said...

Fifty years later, it's still in the news:

http://www.cielodrive.com/updates/court-orders-briefs-tex-tapes-transcript/?fbclid=IwAR3gQRsp5AfERwmVB2nuxWEszlnRgkhu-kVquAcpJqRPStSoEsoxUwqOs6E
Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020
Jun. 3 – California’s Attorney General will have until next Thursday to oppose Leslie Van Houten’s request for a copy of the Tex Watson tapes.

The 2nd District Court of Appeal is currently reviewing a petition of Habeas Corpus filed by Van Houten challenging the legality of Gavin Newsom’s reversal of her 2019 parole recommendation. Part of the petition requested the court order the Watson tapes be turned over to Van Houten’s attorney Richard Pfeiffer. ....

Panamint Patty said...

I want to hear those tapes soooooooo bad

Vera Dreiser said...

Yeah, Patty, it was that "dumb" Tom ONeill who uncovered and brought them to everyone's attention. Hows about that? What have YOU or the Col done even remotely as productive?

DebS said...

You know Vera, this blog has uncovered quite a bit about the Manson Saga as a collaborative effort with posts by our various authors AND by the comments from our readers. It didn't take us 20 years and we did it for free. Both Patty and the Col have contributed to that effort, not to mention the Col's original Manson blog which probably got the whole ball rolling.

I'm proud of this blog and the things it has brought to life that would have otherwise been buried. What have you contributed other than a sour attitude?

Vera Dreiser said...

Deb S, Vera didn't criticize the blog, at least not this time. Vera criticized Patty, Grim and especially the Col for dismissing ONeill's twenty years' hard work, and, if you read the book, sacrifice (endless lack of income, lawsuits, physical & legal threats, mockery) and asked why he doesn't even get credit here from the blog that has done, ok, here it comes, not a lot more than outing former Family members, publishing their personal pictures and then touring "sites" of the crimes (and, yeah, the grave rubbings), while O'Neill has uncovered, for starters, just off the top of Vera's beautiful head, the following:
Tex tapes
Tenerelli evidence
Atkins ilegal lawyer swap
Melcher and Jaokobson (and other's) perjuries
Beausoleil taped phone call
August 16 raid warrant valid
Much more about Bugliosi's criminal behavior than had been uncovered previously
Roger Smith's unusual relationship with Manson (relocation to Mexico? refusal to violate parole? etc., etc.)
Much more info about Manson's immunity from federal prosecution than has ever been reported
Roger Smith's intervention to prevent sentencing of Atkins and Brunner to jail, resulting in their freedom to kill eight months later
Unusual role of HAFMC in enabling Manson's formation of Family
Susan Atkins abrupt termination of parole and probation sentences early TWICE by the govt against the requests of her parole and probation officers' efforts.
And on, and on, and on...
ONeill gets no credit at this site (dedicated to finding the "truth" about the case!) for those discoveries, just ridicule and dismissal (sour grapes?).
So all Vera asked is what the hell have those three (Col, Grim and Patty) contributed to the narrative even remotely comparable?
Give Vera a couple examples.
She'll wait.

Terrapin said...

I liked O'Neils book. I don't agree with everything in it but I certainly learned more than most new books on the subject and it was a very entertaining read.

Speaking of people contributing to this blog, Col we need your final 2 Last Words!

grimtraveller said...

Vera Dreiser said...

So all Vera asked is what the hell have those three (Col, Grim and Patty) contributed to the narrative even remotely comparable?

Lots of great debate and ideas that anyone open minded is free to peruse, consider and reject. Last I looked, this was a comments section.

DebS said...

Vera, most of O'Neill work is opinion not fact. I have the same documents relating to Tenerelli's death as O'Neill and I came to a different conclusion. Something O'Neill did not tell you about Tenerelli was that there was a history of male suicide in that family going back generations. Tenerelli's brother committed suicide a few years after him. The sigma of suicide for Catholics is huge. They cannot be buried in consecrated ground. For a deeply religious family suicide is devastating and I can understand why they did not want to believe that Filippo did just that. I, too, spoke to one of Tenerelli's relatives, though not the same relative.

Roger Smith's relationship with Manson was certainly unusual but Smith was not the last word when it came to revoking Manson's parole. Smith was not Manson's parole officer for a great length of time. Samuel Barrett was his parole officer of record for a longer period of time, particularly in Manson's last year free, 1968/69. I have some of the monthly reports that Manson sent to Barrett during that time. It was during that time that Manson committed most, but not all, of his crimes where he should have had his parole revoked. I also have letters between Barrett and his superiors regarding revoking Manson's parole. To the best of my recollection Smith is not mentioned. One of these days I will organize and present the information here on the blog.

I do not disagree that Manson should have been busted back to prison for parole violations and have stated as such in a few of my posts, but I don't believe that the the onus lies solely on Roger Smith's back.

Have you read the Witches of Mendocino file that is posted on this site? It's an 80+ page pdf that chronicles all of the court proceedings against the girls in Mendo County. This is called sourcing, we try to show actual documents to back up what we post about.

Again, Vera, what have you contributed to the conversation besides slings against certain commenters who you seem to have a grudge with?

Panamint Patty said...

Patty makes no bones about being a shitty researcher. That's why she leaves it up to the experts and why you don't see her name on the homepage any more. Patty's heroes: DebS, Schreck, and Bo at Cielo Drive.

Vera Dreiser said...

Deb S --
"most of O'Neill work is opinion not fact"? Are you kidding Vera?! Which of the bullet points Vera provided are "opinions not fact"? Are you insane? Do you have the book? Did you see the 60 pages of endnotes with supporting documents and resources for every assertion made in the book? ONeill did EVERYTHING he could NOT to speculate or offer opinions or easy conclusions, only presenting the facts -- even when they conflicted with each other, undermining his arguments. Did you see his Instagram or Facebook pages for the book providing scans of actual documents, excerpts of actual interviews he conducted? Admit it, this blog has an enormous bias against him because he chose not to share info with you or your beloved Colonel (as Vera recently learned from her beloved sources).
And taking the points YOU made about YOUR discoveries:
Tenerelli -- you got the docs you did ONLY after ONeill forced the Inyo's DA Office and other law enforcement agencies to release them to him. And did you conduct interviews with witness like he did? Like Tenerelli's autopsy physician who told ONeill he DIDN'T believe it was a suicide? The hotel owner who said the Bishop PD bullied her into making false statements? The Inyo Sheriff's officer and California Highway patrol officer who told ONeill there was NO way the car could've been dumped at the bottom of the desert BEFORE the date Tenerelli's body was discovered? Or the CHP who pleaded with his superiors to follow up on his report that DeCarlo and other males from the family were stopped by a CHP officer in Bishop in Tenrelli's car the day before his body was found in the motel? The then-mayor and former Bishop Chief of Police who lied to ONeill that the window's in Tenerelli's motel room were too small for a killer to crawl out of? Did you go to the location where the actual motel had been moved to and photograph the (unchanged) windows? Did you interview the then-current chief of Bishop PD and the detective who reopened the case at ONeill's urging and then when they found corruption, buried it as they warned they'd have to do? You say his "conclusion" differed from yours? He never presented a conclusion, just the evidence that had been hidden, changed or buried suggesting that it wasn't a suicide and then told the readers to make up their own mind. He went out of his way in his book and all his interviews to say he wouldn't say the majority of his findings were conclusive without absolute documentation. Did you speak to more than one relative in the Tenerelli family, like the eight that ONeill did, all of whom told him the younger brother who killed himself several years after Fs death was convinced he was responsible for the death because he refused to go to Las Vegas with him (F'ss original destination?) after they had a huge fight? And that he had been haunted by that since the death? And except for one other suicide in the family in Italy, there were no others (and maybe not at all unusual when you consider the massive size of the Tenerelli family).
All of the Manson parole docs you have -- which are far from the most important one's -- were provided to you AFTER ONeill won their release from the federal govt in his FOIAs. And you still never got the significant ones where the head offices were demanding Manson be violated and then suddenly reversed themselves. They're in ONeil's book. Did you interview Barrett or Smith? ONeill did.
(continued bitches)

Vera Dreiser said...

(part 2 bitches):

Did you find the docs about Manson's and Schram's arrest after the Spahn Raid, showing SHE'D been charged, but he hadn't? Did you talk to the arresting officers, write countless letters to Schram begging for an interview?
ONeil was the one who got the witches file opened so you were then able to get a copy from Mendocino. But you never got the most important document, the probation sentencing report showing Manson's PAROLE OFFICER Smith interjecting himself to insure their release. Did you interview the probation investigator, David Mandel, like ONeill did? Or the attorneys on both sides of the witches case, like ONeil did? Or the kid who was drugged???
And you say "most of ONeil's work is opinion, not fact." How insulting and stupid. All you do is comb the internet for old articles and request documents that he first fought for and won release so then you can go and easily request them.
Go through Vera's bullet points again, every one of those assertions is grounded in hard--won documentation and interviews. Yet this blog refuses to give the guy his fare due and just makes itself look smaller and pettier by acting like his finds are no big deal.
And yes, Vera would fuck him to eternity if he weren't gay and, to your charge what has Vera contributed to all this? Well, like Grim, she'll say: COMMENTS! She's never pretended to offer anything else unlike the amateurs who criticize and diminish ONeil's work. That now includes you, Deb S.
And no Vera won't stop coming here because it gets her wet and juicy to expose idiocy and yes, of course ole Vera's hoping ONeil will come around for her.

DebS said...

Oh, good Lord, Vera drank the Kool-Aid. I got the Mendocino docs straight from the Mendocino recorders office quite a few years ago. I also got all the Morehouse docs, which are pretty uninteresting. My getting them had nothing to do with O'Neill. They are public records!

I also got reams of docs from the LA DA's office but those, ultimately, were due to the perseverance of Cielo Drive, not O'Neill. Do you belong to Cielo Drive's Patreon site? If not, you should because he has been putting up transcripts for quite some time.

I've exposed plenty that wasn't in O'Neill's book.

Again, what have you contributed besides a saucy mouth?

DebS said...

UPDATE- The Manson docuseries created by EPIX has been shelved for the time being.

https://deadline.com/2020/06/helter-skelter-american-myth-charles-manson-pushed-epix-1202951513/

"Helter Skelter: An American Myth, a six-part docuseries about Charles Manson exec produced by Greg Berlanti, has been pushed back by Epix.

The series was previously planned to debut on June 14 and the MGM-owned network has not yet set a replacement date.

Deadline understands the network didn’t feel it was an appropriate time to release the series given the subject matter – Charles Manson planned to incite a race war called Helter Skelter."

Panamint Patty said...

O'Neill lost me with the mind control stuff. It could have been a much, much better book. He shot himself in the foot.

Vera Dreiser said...

Again, Deb S., Vera listed more a dozen significant findings by ONeil that contravened and/or significantly CHANGED the historical narrative of the Manson case.
And you write: "I've exposed plenty that wasn't in O'Neill's book."
Name just ONE item you've "exposed" even approaching the significance of Our Man ONeil's findings.
Vera's waiting -- and, no, Vera isn't a researcher, so stop asking her what she's contributed besides bracing, important and very sexy commentating.
(Vera checking watch).

Vera Dreiser said...

PS -- and that goes for the Col, too. ONE item!
(Vera checking watch on sexy, slender wrist)

Panamint Patty said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Vera Dreiser said...

Okay, and what the hell, from the Amazon page for the book, because THEY'RE relevant and not, as Deb S. writes "mostly opinion not fact" -- ha!:


"O'Neill's discoveries are stunning, especially when he's discussing the inexplicable leniency shown by law enforcement officials and by Manson's parole officer."―The Washington Post
(that's from Greg King, who wrote another excellent book on the case)

"If Helter Skelter whets your whistle, then O'Neill's blistering account of the conspiracy to cover up the flaws in the Manson prosecution is definitely your cup of tea."―Nerdist

"A page-turner stacked with gobsmacking facts."―The Ringer

"O'Neill's skillful accumulation of facts, untainted by bluffery, is a victory for honest discourse ... The discoveries that O'Neill has shared with the world-about lies, suppressions, and conflicts of interest-should scare the hell out of us."―Sean Howe, Bookforum

"Forget Tarantino's film, journalist O'Neill has been working on this book for 20 years and has found all kind of interesting things, including unreleased documents and new interviews that show legal misconduct... Conspiracy or not, this is what you call beach reading."―Style Weekly (Richmond)

O’Neill's investigations started twenty years ago…and they have continued ever since … His research monomaniacally took over his life … [Full of] scandalous findings … As it develops, O'Neill's tale embroils an increasingly stellar cast of accomplices or enablers … No unified field theory of malfeasance would be complete without a link to the JFK assassination and the ensuing cover-up. O’Neill supplies one, and to me it seems only too plausible. Inevitably there are contemporary resonances … O’Neill's intricately sinister ‘secret history’ often sounds incredible; that doesn't mean that it's not all true., Observer

"Whatever you think you know about the Manson murders is wrong. Just flat out wrong. Tom O'Neill's twenty years of meticulous research has unearthed revelations about the murders, the murderers, the prosecutors who tried them and a rogues gallery of cops, drug dealers, bent doctors, famous celebrities, grotesque government research, secret agents and shadowy figures in a conspiracy/cover up so sweeping and bizarre, you'll be as astounded as you are terrified. If your friends call you paranoid, maybe they're just ignorant."―Joe Ide, author of IQ and Wrecked

"Gripping masterful stuff. A dazzling and compellingly obsessed journalistic detective story that invites you down the rabbit-hole to a sex, drugs, and celebrity-serial-killer America. O'Neill's sunk decades into uncovering something far freakier than Helter Skelter ever admitted. Buckle up kids, this is true crime at its truest and most compelling."―Charles Graeber, Executive Producer of The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann and New York Times bestselling author of The Good Nurse

Chaos explodes a bomb under Manson’s Helter Skelter race war … Tantalizing … Founded on prodigious research, it convincingly impugns key tenets of Bugliosi’s [Helter Skelter] narrative and exhumes a trove of provocative data … Explosive revelations … O’Neill’s 20-year investigation reads like a thriller with overtones of Philip Marlowe., Los Angeles Times

A 20-year quest for the truth may have not found any definitive answers ― but it definitely changes the story … Chaos offers a slew of newly reported information that proves one thing: There’s more to it than we thought., Rolling Stone

DebS said...

Vera, I'm not playing your game, I have better things to do. You want to see what I've contributed, read the blog.

orwhut said...

Vera,
All of those tantalizing blurbs or whatever they're called, remind me of some things I read in Maury Terry's book, The Ultimate Evil. I fully expected law enforcement to make some cases based on what he wrote. It's been a l-o-n-g time and I don't believe they've made any.

Vera Dreiser said...

Definition of fear? Complete cop out? PUT IT IN THE DICTIONARY, coward, Deb S!!!!:

"Vera, I'm not playing your game, I have better things to do. You want to see what I've contributed, read the blog."

Deb, deary, obviously Vera plays close attention to the blog otherwise she wouldn't have asked. You know what they say about a good attorney? Never ask a question you already don't know the answer to.

You been dunked down, sweetie!

xxoooxx,
Vera Vagina

Panamint Patty said...

Here is my favorite thing I ever did for the blog https://www.mansonblog.com/2011/07/social-swim-by-yvonne-big-evening-for.html I went to the main library in SF and pulled this off the fiche. It has been enhanced and reposted in a lot of places now. I love this pic, Patty had a coming out too though not nearly as extravagant as an heiress would have had. RIP Gibby

Rock N. Roll said...

I’m usually lurking around here but Vera is forcing me into the sunlight to yell SHUT THE FUCK UP! She is ruining my read and stepping on my high. DebS, Panamint Patty and even the Col must be stood up for against this regurgitating idiot. Yeah I read the book, kind of interesting but of little significance. Now go play elsewhere, your references to yourself wreak of narcissism. Dude, check that ego.

Vera Dreiser said...

Hey Rock N. Roll,
You're inconsequential. You made Vera dry up like the desert in July, or the Col when he rolls over on his tragic wife and she asks her sad self, was it worth it for the Transformer residuals?

Vera Dreiser said...

Checking fake diamond wristwatch Deb S and Donald Duck (Porky P—p-pigs?!) Murphy!

DebS said...

Vera, I do not confine myself to the Manson murders. I do plenty of other cases, here's one I bet never crossed your microwaves.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/DNA-research-in-Golden-State-Killer-case-spurs-12889592.php#photo-15504857

Vera Dreiser said...

Diversion? Who the fuck cares about whatever that is? Not why Vera’s here. But, yes,will take that as a concssion that you got nuthinh, nada,zilch.

Dan S said...

Can't read the article without a subscription:(... Greatest day ever when they caught EAR ONS GSK. The article is about catching others with the geneological dna technique?

Dan S said...

Orwhut mentioned Charles Starkweather which reminded me that Carol Fugate and even Karla Homolka got let out. They let one of the leopold and loeb s out. I can t believe they won't let LVH out. She's an old crone who barely got convicted and sentenced to 7 years with exemplary behavior (including when she was free in the 70s). Bitch move for Newsome. At this point they should all be out except stabby tex

Doug said...

Super sour...it is disrespectful to the folks who take the time to research, compose and post the material we have the good fortune to access, digest and, discuss.

We don't always agree with each other but, the dialogue is - for the most part - civil and respectful.

There have been instances where someone has "blown a gasket" and been uncharacteristically prickly within the forum, but for the most part those instances are isolated.

You're pretty much a negative presence who tosses a barb or two, never seems to be happy and, never seems to appreciate the efforts of others in providing content or, in discussing it.

Just my observations over the last 5 or 6 years.

Cheers

Doug

Vera Dreiser said...

Doug said...
Super sour...it is disrespectful to the folks who take the time to research, compose and post the material we have the good fortune to access, digest and, discuss.


Doug -- go back to Vera's initial appearance in this thread and see who was disrespectful to whom first. Vera provided links to interesting news about ONeill's work and got immediately bashed, as did ONeill, by the ever powerful Col and his lackeys. So Vera kept the conversation going by providing FACTS. Amazing how the Col can spew his childish venom and still be treated like a God around here, but if anyone imitates his methods they get attacked by EVEN his most pathetic victims.
That's why Vera LOVES this blog -- and LOVES engaging. With FACTS and a little lady spittle.

And Deb, Vera will take that as a win, thanky.






Matthew said...

DebS Said:

UPDATE- The Manson docuseries created by EPIX has been shelved for the time being

This really bums me out. I joined Epix for the free trial to watch this and the Laurel Canyon doc. I watched the first episode of the Laurel Canyon and it was fun. Not really anything new if you follow this era but was well done and wonderful music. It was a perfect storm of musical talent on a couple streets. I don't think that it is a wrong time to show the helter skelter theory on tv with the racial tension we are going through. It is a time to explore it. Besides, I was hoping that it was going to help debunk the whole HS theory to the masses. OH well.

I read this blog at lunch break every day and enjoy all the posts. Though I do find it to be a bit clicky and though I have been following this story of the family since the murders took place, any of my comments have always been brushed off and or ignored. And that is Okay, I still enjoy reading this blog. I do have to say that many of the regular posters do a lot of research and are quite knowledgeable on the subject. I find the poster Vera to be pretty bitter and never having anything positive to say except towards O'Neil. I am guessing that being mean and bitter towards the bloggers here keeps her from attacking her friends, neighbors and family. Always easier to show aggression to people you don't know...just ask Tex.

Panamint Patty said...

Vera said
Doug -- go back to Vera's initial appearance in this thread and see who was disrespectful to whom first.

Vera you yanked his chain. Own it.

Vera Dreiser said...

Vera literally creams when Patty (incorrectly) defends her abuser. Hath she no pride?

Panamint Patty said...

Vera, no one wears wristwatches any more. You are old and irrelevant. Good bye

Vera Dreiser said...

Nice ageism Patty.

ColScott said...

Vera


You skip the point. O'Neill lacked discernment. His relationship with you confirms that.

He looked at things and did not know what they meant.

I would NOT be surprised if he had the solution we seek in his files. He was too busy harassing Nancy's 84 year old dad to know what was what

PS You suck

Vera Dreiser said...

Specifics, Col. What did ONeill look at and not know what it meant?
Make a charge? Back it up!

Dan S said...

Why did tex stab so many times? Why did he steal so many typewriters? The answer is the same: to impress his peer group.

Dan S said...

So many rabbit holes but the truth is just a pile of pellets lying above ground. Boring and pathetic

Vera Dreiser said...

Col and Deb S, fucking cowards. Make the slanderous charges but don't back them up with examples. Definition of this blog and yer president: hollow, false. bullshit.
Vera Out.

dawnn said...

Joni Mitchell the Candian girl her and Neil Young both Candian.I love that youtube video where Neil Young talks bout Manson.

Dan S said...

Neil unabashadly says he was a genius and d wilson was similarly impressed at one point. Neil was particularly impressed by his spontaneous prolific creativity. Too bad Charlie's dad wasn't a spy (well we don't really know what he was. Maybe a colonel? That would Make him fit in with all the canyon musicians after all) and he was a spaz under any studio authority.

Panamint Patty said...

Colonel was his proper name I think.

Unknown said...

Why does anyone allow Vera Drexler to express her thoughts? She is obviously a female more controlled by Hormones than kind of intellect? Worthless Airhead.

Matt said...

Unknown said...
Why does anyone allow Vera Drexler to express her thoughts? She is obviously a female more controlled by Hormones than kind of intellect? Worthless Airhead.


Actually, Vera is male with intentional split personality.





grimtraveller said...

Vera Dreiser said...

After reading the book I've transitioned Grimmy. You should too

It is without a doubt a very good book and overall, I enjoyed it when I read it. It's not without its problems {like pretty much every book on this subject}, not least of which is that it does not dent the Helter Skelter aspect of the case. There are loads {I'm talking shit loads !} of fascinating details, adding up to a lot of supposition {even Tom O'Neill has to point that out a few times} and much of his stuff can be, if not rebutted to his satisfaction, at the very least explanations provided that are sometimes more plausible than his suppositions. I also think that it would be a way stronger book if it didn't start with a premise {scotch HS} that had to be achieved and also if it wasn't so obviously and avowedly anti-Bugliosi. Not because Bugliosi was a wonderful human being {he wasn't} but because it colours some important things that O'Neill found and slants things in such a way that no explanation offered can ever be believed or accepted. That's poor and suspicious because it's in effect positing that whenever Tom says something isn't, then it can't be.
By the way, the reason I earlier said that the Col wasn't jealous of the book is because a lot of the stuff that O'Neill does accept could be true {CIA, mind control ~ from Charlie or outsiders ~, JFK connection etc} is stuff that the Col routinely dismisses and not only that, Tom spent 20 years on this, the Col's site ran for 9 years and when it comes down to it, they're both in pretty much the same place. Neither can say hand on heart "this is what actually happened." Bugliosi always could.

bucpaul2812 said...

grimtraveller, a bit of an aside but do you know if the 'Helter Skelter' docu-series is going to be shown in the UK? I would have thought SKY documentaries was probable, as 'Laurel Canyon' is being broadcast there, but I haven't heard a dicky-bird...