Sunday, April 17, 2022

Who Drove to Gary's?


Ella Jo Bailey testified for the People that she had known Manson since 1967 and travelled extensively throughout the southwestern United States with him, Mary Brunner, Patricia Krenwinkel and Lynne Fromme, and that they moved to the Spahn Ranch in 1968 where she met Davis and Beausoleil. 

Several times during May and June 1969, Manson talked to Bailey and others about "going out" to get money to buy dune buggies to go to the desert to live. In July of 1969 Manson talked to several members of the family about the need to get money and names were discussed of various persons from whom they could get money. Hinman's name was discussed and the fact that he owned a house and stocks and bonds. 

On July 26, 1969, Manson told Bailey and Bill Vance that he wanted them to go to Hinman's house and persuade him to join the "family" or sign over all of his property and automobiles. Vance said he had better things to do and walked away. That night at about 6 p.m. Bailey saw Manson talking to Beausoleil and Davis. Beausoleil had a knife (People's exh. 18) and Davis had a nine millimeter Radom gun (People's exh. 30). Subsequent investigation by officers established that Davis had purchased the gun under an assumed name. Bailey saw Brunner and Atkins dressed in dark clothes. Bailey saw Brunner, Atkins, Beausoleil and a fourth unidentified person drive off in [71 Cal. App. 3d 14] a ranch hand's car which was driven by the fourth person. Davis was still in the parking lot.


grimtraveller said...

Bruce Davis said:

2010 - I drove them. I did all that. I didn't care about Gary

2012 - I didn't take part in the planning, I was there present, so that's taking part. I was there. And when I was asked to drive, I did. So I drove my co-defendants to Gary's home

2014 - I drove the car

2015 - DAVIS: When I was getting ready to drive Bobby and Susan Atkins and Mary Brunner to Gary's house Bobby said..can I have your pistol and I said yeah

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER O'HARA: That's a leap of faith in this gentleman.

DAVIS: Well, it was very misplaced faith to be truthful and I was not very analytical at the time and so I just gave it to him.

DC O'HARA: And how'd it come about you just had to drive them?

INMATE DAVIS: That's all I was asked to do

2017 - And so, uh, Bobby and Mary and Susan...I drove 'em to Gary's house. They asked me to leave 'em. They said we'll call you up

2019 - INMATE DAVIS: And I said I'll drive. So I drove, uh, Bobby Beausoleil and Mary Brunner and, uh, Susan Atkins.


INMATE DAVIS: Yes, sir. I drove him to the house. I let him out the house. I didn't stay there. I just let him out

It would appear Bruce drove them to Gary's !
Perhaps Ella Jo was mistaken about seeing Bruce at the very time the car with 4 people had driven off.
It wouldn't make sense for Bruce to cop to driving them if he didn't.
Or would it ?

TabOrFresca said...

While Ella Jo does not “bear false witness against her neighbor”, there was inference against Davis.

Manson - Hinman/Shea (8/12/71) : Volume 32

Pages 5089 - 5091

A: He had come back to the ranch. …

Davis - Hinman/Shea (1/12/72): Volume 21

Page 3073 - Did not see Davis leaving in car.

Page 3075 - Davis carrying gun before car left.

Page 3082 - Davis was near car 30-45 minutes later (after it returned)

Brunner was a very early source.

Brunner interview 12/04/69 - Whiteley & Guenther

Begins on page 389

Q: How did you get to Gary’s house?

A: I think it was Bruce drove us up there.

This comment has been removed by blog administrator Generalissimo G. Greene-Whyte

Greene-Whyte, to begin to understand Brunner - read this interview … key on pillow.

Buntline said...

In Mary Brunner's statement, she says that she thought it was Bruce Davis that drove them there, "in a Ford or a Chevy, Ford, either 650 or 658 Ford".

grimtraveller said...

Sadie Mae Glutz said:

"Old Bruce let Bobby, Mary and me out of the car and drove away"

Old Bruce is the name Susan gives Bruce Davis in her 1977 book. He doesn't even rate a mention in relation to the Hinman crime in her second book, the Myth of HS.
Not that it means anything, but in Bobby's 1978 hearing, where he outlays this new version of the story he's telling, he mentions Brunner and Atkins by name, he mentions Charlie by association {although he implies Charlie was never there}, but he doesn't mention Bruce. At all. In the whole hearing.
Funny, huh ?

AustinAnn74 said...


G. Greene-Whyte said...

Thanks, guys. ToF, David shared that 3073 doc with me this morning. I appreciate everyone's help. I'm hopping into Box 40 now.

Bunt, so Johnny Swartz's car maybe?

G. Greene-Whyte said...

Hi, Ann :)

G. Greene-Whyte said...

"This comment has been removed by blog administrator Generalissimo G. Greene-Whyte."

LOL! Tell me I'm not the only person who thinks of General Gorodish whenever Gorodish comments here!

G. Greene-Whyte said...

Bobby's recollections of the sword usage varies.

Quotes are in quotes. The other text is me summarizing.

1978 – That’s ridiculous. There was no sword there. I took a knife. Charlie did not slice Gary.

2003 – Charlie walked thru the door with a long knife and slashed Gary on the cheek

2005 – Charlie wounded Gary with the sword

2008 – Charlie came in and slashed Gary across the face for no reason

2010 – “I went there to get money from him initially, and things went bad, and Charles Manson ended up showing up, slashed him across the face, and then he left and told me that if I was a man, I would take care of the problem of the threat that Mr. Hinman was perceived to be.”

2016 – Charlie again. “That's what he was responsible for. He slashed Gary's face, he was under the belief, evidentially, my assumption is that it was, at that time, that he was under the belief that Gary had been able to get the gun that I had taken with me to the residence away from me.”

2019 – Bobby’s lawyer, Campbell, says he advised Bobby to not talk about the offence except to show remorse or regret

2022 – Bobby again refuses to talk about the crime itself.

Gorodish said...

GGW typed:

Tell me I'm not the only person who thinks of General Gorodish whenever Gorodish comments here!

I took my nick from the character Serge Gorodish from the 1981 French flick "Diva"; not the Israeli general.

G. Greene-Whyte said...

My apologies :)

G. Greene-Whyte said...

Okay, I read everything in Box 40. Quick question, is this the first place we hear about Bobby calling back to the Ranch and saying Gary won't give up the money?

TabOrFresca said...

G. Greene-Whyte asked:
“is this the first place we hear about Bobby calling back to the Ranch and saying Gary won't give up the money?”

For instance, DeCarlo testifies at Beausoleil’s first trial on 11/24/69 (DeCarlo spoke to LE about this on about 11/17/69)

A: Well, he continued -- proceeded to beat him, to punch him around, tried to show him that he wasn't a joker in any way, and that he wanted the money and anything else that was in the house.
But, then, Gary said, "No, get out."

So he called up a guy named Charley at the ranch.

Q: That is back at the Spahn Ranch?
A: Right.
Q: So what happened?
A: So Charley and this guy went up to the house where Bobby was at. I didn't see them leave, though.
Q: You knew this guy Charley?
A: Yes.
Q: This is what Bobby is telling you still?
A: Right.
Q: Go ahead.
Q: So when Charley got there, Gary ran up to him and told him to take your kind and get out.
So Charley had a long sword, hit him with the sword, cut his ear off.
So he told Gary that, you know, "You had better conform, or you had better do what you are told," along those words.
So then he left.
Q: Who left now?
A: Charley did, and left Bobby back up there again.

So he stayed there, I guess, another six or seven hours with Gary, and then

he called back Charley -- up, and said, "Gary isn't cooperating."
So Charley told him, "You know what to do."

So he stuck him with a knife.
Q: This is Bobby still saying this?
A: Right.

TabOrFresca said...

G. Greene-Whyte, has a very good linked collection of sequential data related to the Hinman and Beausoleil investigation(s). Note that official transcribed DeCarlo interview was on 11/19/69.

G. Greene-Whyte said...

Thanks, ToF. I'm definitely in that rabbit hole you sent me down yesterday. Do you know if anyone mentioned calling the ranch before Danny did? Also, do any of those boxes contain Hawthorne transcripts?