More From Randy Starr's Wife

First part of the story is here:
http://www.eviliz.com/2013/03/an-interview-with-randy-starrs-wife.html

Windy and Shorty had been friends for years.  The people who were regulars at the ranch were like family and counted on each other.  Some, like Shorty came to work at the ranch between other jobs.  Windy remembers Shorty being 6' 4" and about 210 pounds, he had a dark brown beard and wild blue eyes.  She said, he claimed he was called Shorty because of a morning that he had to "goose his self and rope his tool to take a morning leak"!  They worked hard on the ranch and they played hard, too.

Shorty came from a working family and grew up in Medford Massachusetts .  His father John was a truck driver for a food distribution company.  Shorty's mother was French Canadian.  In 1940 there were five boys with Shorty being the middle son, he had two older brothers and two younger brothers.

And now we'll pick up where we left off last week.

Word had gotten up to Spahn that Windy had been beat up and Shorty, out of concern for Windy, went over to her house to check up on her.  He took one look at her and became enraged.  Windy explained to Shorty about the police stop, that her truck was seen at one robbery felt to be connected to other robberies, then how Manson had come over and demanded the keys to her truck and when she wouldn't comply proceeded to beat her up.  She said that Manson was a dirty fighter, too, kicking her while she lay on the floor.  Shorty turned on his heels and immediately headed towards Bill Vance's house screaming as he got close, "Come out of there, you yellow bastard."  Little Harvey was the first one out of the house and tried to calm Shorty down, he was swatted away by Shorty for his troubles.  Next Bill Vance came to the doorway and out of the house, Shorty coldcocked him, no questions asked, leaving him lie in the yard.  Bill and Shorty had once been friends having worked together at Spahn before Bill thought he would give up being a cowboy to become a truck driver.  The friendship ended that day.

By this time Manson had armed himself with a knife and also came out of the house.  He was talking tough but this time Manson's slick verbal patter did not do him any good.  Shorty proceeded  to beat him to a pulp from the front of the house all the way out to the middle of the street where he left him on the center line unspeaking and not moving.

Windy firmly believes that the beating Manson took that day from Shorty is the reason why he was killed. She also believes that is why so many of the guys attacked him en masse.  Manson was thoroughly humiliated that day.

Manson's Influence on Eric Harris

There is no direct evidence that Eric Harris read Helter Skelter by Vincent Bugliosi, the book about Charles Manson that Dylan used as the primary source for his research paper. However, given Eric's fascination with violence and the fact that his best friend read the book, it would not be surprising if Eric read Helter Skelter. In addition, the number of parallels between Eric's writings and statements found within Helter Skelter suggests that Eric not only read the book, but also deliberately patterned himself after Manson.

Manson was said to have two enemies: the police, and African Americans.3 Eric identified the police as the "person" he hated the most.4 Elsewhere, in a list of people he hated, he wrote "cops! Stupid law enforcing people!!!"5 He also spouted racist comments and jokes,6 and wrote about sending blacks back to Africa.7 His racism is of particular interest because as a younger boy his best friends included one who was black and one who was Asian.8 In fact, a friend of his at Columbine who was part Mexican commented that Eric was not racist toward him at all,9 and an African American classmate said Eric showed no signs of racism toward her.10 It thus appears that Eric's racism was not deeply rooted, but adopted as an attitude during adolescence.

One of Manson's followers said Manson "wanted to do a crime that would shock the world, that the world would have to stand up and take notice."11 Eric wrote, "I want to leave a lasting impression on the world."12 Helter Skelter, the race war that Manson believed he would start, was supposed to "be all the wars that have ever been fought built on top of the other."13 Eric wrote that his attack would be like "the LA riots, the Oklahoma bombing, WWII, Vietnam, Duke and Doom all mixed together"14 (Duke and Doom are video games). Manson "was convinced he could personally start that war himself."15 He told his followers, "I'm going to have to start the revolution."16 Similarly, Eric thought he could start a revolution: "Maybe we will even start a little rebellion or revolution."17 Elsewhere he said, "We need to fucking kick-start the revolution here! … If we have a fucking religious war – or oil – or anything. We need to get a chain reaction going here."18

The war that Manson envisioned was to result in global destruction: "Charlie was going to bring on the ruination of the world, and this is why all the murders were committed."19 Manson himself said, "I'm going to kill as many of you as I can. I'm going to pile you up to the sky. I figure about fifty million of you."20

Like Manson, Eric thought in terms of global destruction. One passage in his journal says, "If you recall your history the Nazis came up with a "final solution" to the Jewish problem. Kill them all. Well, in case you haven't figured it out yet, I say ‘KILL MANKIND' no one should survive."21 He also wrote: If I can wipe a few cities off the map, and even the fuckhead holding the map, then great. Hmm, just thinking if I want all humans dead or maybe just the quote-unquote "civilized, developed, and known-of " places on Earth, maybe leave little tribes of natives in the rain forest or something. Hmm, I'll think about that.22

Manson and his followers rejected the idea that words had real meanings. They also rejected basic concepts of right and wrong, guilt, crime, and sin. If the concepts have no meaning, then people are free to do whatever they want and feel no remorse. This rejection of values and meaning appears repeatedly in Helter Skelter as well as Eric's writings. For example, a Manson family member said, "Sorry is only a five-letter word."23 Eric wrote, "Sorry is just a word."24 Other quotes from Helter Skelter demonstrate a rejection of morality:

• "All words had no meanings to us"25
• "Guilty. Not guilty. They are only words."26
• "There is no crime, there is no sin, everything is all right."27
• "Whatever is necessary, you do it. When somebody needs to be killed, there's no wrong."28
• Eric repeatedly made statements like those from Helter Skelter in which he rejected traditional values and morals:
• "There is no such thing as an actual ‘real world.' Its just another word like justice, sorry, pity, religion, faith, luck and so on."29
• "Fuck money, fuck justice, fuck morals, fuck civilized, fuck rules, fuck laws…DIE manmade words … There's no such thing as True Good or True evil."30
• "‘Morals' is just another word, and that's it."31
• "Just because your mumsy and dadsy told you blood and violence is bad, you think it's a fucking law of nature? Wrong."32

Manson made many comments that indicate he thought of himself (literally or figuratively) as Jesus. He identified himself as "Charles Manson, also known as Jesus Christ, Prisoner."33 A follower of his said, "Charlie claimed that he had lived before, nearly two thousand years ago, and that he had once died on the cross."34 Manson referred to the court case against him as "this trile [sic] of Man's son."35

Though Eric rejected Jesus, he frequently referred to himself as God or god-like. He wrote "Ich bin Gott," which is German for "I am God" in his own planner and in the yearbooks of at least four classmates.36 He also wrote, "I feel like God and I wish I was."37 Both Manson and Eric viewed themselves as the ones who established laws. Manson said, "I make laws. I'm the lawmaker."38 Eric wrote, "My belief is that if I say something, it goes. I am the law."39 When he was arrested in 1967, Manson listed his occupation as "minister."40 According to a friend, Eric was known as "preacher."41 Eric himself identified one of his nicknames as "reverend."42

Eric and Dylan, in fact, had several nicknames. The most puzzling ones are names of colors. Eric was "Indigo" and Dylan was "Green."43 Why? What meaning was there in colors? Manson created the Order of the Rainbow and gave his closest disciples color nicknames.44 For example, Squeaky Fromme was known as "Red" and Sandra Good was known as "Blue."45 Perhaps Eric and Dylan imitated this practice.

Both Manson and Eric admired Hitler. Manson thought "Hitler had the best answer to everything."46 In addition, Manson "said that Hitler was a tuned-in guy who had leveled the karma of the Jews."47 Eric made clear his admiration for Hitler when he wrote, "I love the Nazis."48

Manson preached that murder was not as bad as killing animals or plants. He valued nature over humanity: "To Manson it was not wrong to kill a human being, but it was wrong to kill an animal or plant."49 Manson said, "I'd rather kill people than animals."50 When Manson spoke of killing millions of people, he commented, "I might be able to save my trees and my air and my water and my wildlife."51 Eric seemed to echo Manson's ideas. He wrote about eliminating humanity but preserving nature: "the human race isn't worth fighting for, only worth killing. Give the Earth back to the animals, they deserve it infinitely more than we do."52 He also commented, "I think we are all a waste of natural resources and should be killed off."53

Thus, despite any statements from Eric that he was interested in Manson, there are many reasons to think that Manson was a significant influence on Eric.

Download the PDF HERE

Barbara Beausoleil's last dance performance

Clockworks Cafe & Cultural Center

Salem, OR
September 28, 2012

Rosie Blanchard-Tate-Polanski: Woman of God, Mother, Teacher, Advocate for the Disabled/Special Needs Children, Author, Dancer, Daughter, Listener, and Friend.

Good news! Rosie Blanchard-Tate-Polanski is on Twitter!!!
https://twitter.com/PolanskiJulia

A glimpse into the mind of Rosie Blanchard-Tate-Polanski. A seriously disturbed woman - my head hurts just from going back and reading her tweets from the beginning. It also says something about the state of mind of Billy Garrettson - who falls in love with someone who is this disturbed?!?

Her train of thought is erratic and really hard to track from one tweet to another, but from what I can gather, she's now saying that Sharon had twins - one boy, one girl, the boy is "Daniel". Steve McQueen is the father. Roman had them taken away. A nun, by the name of Sister Rose Vernette seemingly the evil woman who hid her away. She writes about about relatives named Blanchard. She has a daughter named Sharon (with learning disabilities?)

Claims McQueen is still alive living under the alias of Levon.

Claims Colonel Tate is still alive. Calls him (I think) Jim Hern. I guess she also claims that Garrettson, "Hern", Flebbe, and McQueen - aka Levon, kidnapped her daughter back in 2000?

One word--Yikes.

Q&A from Grump

There has been a name that Charlie mentioned at least 2 times that I know of. The name is “Doc Hartman”.

In the Diane Sawyer interview: “I was raised in the judges robe, under Doc Hartman, I’m like his little boy”

In his 1992 Parole hearing: “So I went through the lieutenant there and they brought the guys - the lieutenants and the men that were in uniforms from the dentists office and all the Navy and the doctors from Doc Hartman, they brought them from back east…”

Any idea who or what a Doc Hartman is???

Question from "Neil of San Diego"

above: 122 Lyon Street, Haight Ashbury

Hello Patty ... I've seen that your site is well thought out....quite an achievement actually.

What happened after Squeaky, Brunner and Charlie first came together at Brunner's place?  I should be more specific in my question. The time frame: Charlie has picked up Squeaky and returns to Brunner's Place. Did Charlie, Brunner, and Squeaky hang together at the Haight (Cole St etc) for several months, when Squeaky first showed up from Venice?

I gather that the three soon ran into Atkins at Lyon Street. Shortly thereafter, they hopped on the bus to go north on a trip to Mendocino. Going south they pick up Krenwinkle. They eventually return to the Haight.Where are they all staying? Where is Krenwinkle staying? What are they doing for money? Hanging out on their renovated bus? What are Squeaky and Charlie up to in the Haight at this time?  Seems like the books I've read gloss over this hole in the early family history...

Is there some "pro" out there who might be able to sort me out on this?

Sincerely,
Neil of San Diego

An interview with Randy Starr's wife

Here at the blog we have been fortunate to have been invited to interview stuntman Randy Starr's wife. For the purpose of posting the interviews she has asked that we refer to her as Windy Bucklee.  Windy first arrived at Spahn Ranch around 1963 and went by the Windy name at that time.  Windy is a Native American Indian who has lead a varied and sometimes tragic life.  When young, in the 1940's, she, along with many other Indian children, was taken by the government from her family and placed in an Indian boarding school.  The government thought at that time this was the best way to assimilate the Native Americans into the white man's society and ways.  She was eventually placed with a white family in Ohio who treated her no better than an indentured servant.  Because of that she ran away at the age of 16 and never looked back.  At the time she ran away Montie Montana's Wild West Show was in the area and she was able to find work and a way to leave Ohio with the show.  Windy worked for Montana across the US ending up in southern California in the mid to late '50's.  She briefly worked for another Wild West Show which took her to the western states but those types of shows were dying out so she sought work in the many stables and ranches in southern California.

Windy is not very good with dates, it is not in the Indian culture to keep constant tabs on time in general, for that reason she has been vague at times about when certain things took place.  I have tried my best to organize her timetable by comparing it to when her children were born or some other well known event that could be looked up.  Windy had worked for a woman named Gladys Cox who took in horses that were less than desirable and turned them around to be well mannered and saleable.  Mrs. Cox was acquainted with George Spahn and his ranch having done business with him.  When Mrs. Cox became ill she arranged for Windy to work and live at Spahn.  This was in 1963 and Windy worked and lived there off and on until the ranch burned in 1970.  She did not always work full time and at times she took other jobs elsewhere.  Such was life on the ranch where people came and went with whatever opportunities seemed best in the moment.  Windy did tell me that Ruby Pearl was a constant at Spahn although Ruby gave up spending the night at Spahn when things with Charles Manson and the Family became overwhelmingly tense.

Windy met Randy Starr at Spahn around 1964, they fell in love and had a wedding ceremony up on Indian Mesa at the ranch.  Randy wore all black and rode a black stallion, Windy wore white buckskins and rode a white mare.  Windy told me that it was an Indian ceremony and I'm not entirely certain that it was a legal marriage.  Windy really did not have much use nor see the point in the white mans way and still doesn't.  Randy and Windy had a daughter in March of 1965 and named her Starlina.  Starlina was born, what Windy called a thyroid baby, and she lived only four months. After the baby died Randy was devastated and took off for his home state of Illinois for about 18 months leaving Windy behind in southern California.  While in Illinois Randy was in an automobile accident and lost the use of one of his arms.  Windy and Randy still had a bond and worked together at Spahn off and on but never lived together again. 

Sometime in 1967 Windy had moved from Spahn to a house on Gresham St. a few houses away from Bill Vance.  She knew Vance from working at Spahn, he had been a cowboy but wanted to try something else so he bought a semi truck, he had no trailer for it and was planning on getting jobs hauling other peoples trailers.  Apparently the semi was always needing repairs and he rarely used it.  At this time Windy was working for a company called New Art Publishing and Party Company full time and not working at the ranch.  She became close friends with Vance and his roommate Little Harvey.  Little Harvey was a midget who had a Bull named Elmer that he put in fairs, parades and sideshows.  Elmer was a Swiss bull with three eyes and four horns.  I kid you not!  Windy was telling at that time that part of Gresham St. and the next block were parcels with a little bit of acreage.  Kind of like ranchettes. 

Windy first met Charlie Manson in late 1967 or early 1968 at Bill Vance's on Gresham St.  She does not know how Bill and Charlie met, he just showed up there with a few of the girls and started living there along with Bill, Harvey and Elmer.  Since Bill and Windy were close friends and Bill's only mode of transportation was the semi she gave Bill a second set of keys to her truck and allowed Bill to use it while she was at work.  She never really knew when he was going to use the truck and she was fine with that as long as the truck was there when she left work.

One day while she and her daughter, from a marriage previous to Randy, were out in the truck she was pulled over by the police and questioned about where she was at certain times.  She learned from the police that there had been a number of robberies and that the license plate number of her truck matched the plate number of a truck seen at one of the robberies.  In total there had been eight robberies that they were investigating.  She was able to prove that she had been at work at the time the robberies were committed and couldn't have done them.  The police let her go but by this time she had put two and two together and knew who had done the crimes.  She did not tell the police her suspicions.  When she arrived home she went immediately to Bill Vance's madder than a wet hen, read him the riot act and demanded her truck keys back.  A couple of hours later Charlie came over to her house and asked for the truck keys back and she refused.  Charlie proceeded to beat the crap out of her breaking her jaw and causing other injuries.  She had a gun in her house that her brother had left for her, she tried to shoot Charlie three times but because she was unfamiliar with the gun and she was pretty beat up she could not figure out how to get the safety off.  Windy told me that Charlie ran when he saw she had the gun and she regrets not having shot him as she figured she could have saved a few lives down the road.   Windy ended up in the hospital for a couple of days.

Next, I will tell you Shorty Shea's reaction to Windy's beating by Manson.



Photo compliments of cielodrive.com

Q&A Back to the Barker raid ammo question

You all might recall one of our members "Matt W" asking a previous question (see below) about the ammo seized at the Barker ranch raid.  I was chatting with Matt W about it recently and he brought up an interesting question. Was it James Willett who stole the weapons/ammo for the Family?
Matt W also brought up a good point being we don't even know if James was ever stationed there.

Hi Liz, I've been reading your blog for a couple weeks, looking for specific information regarding a list of weapons that were seized during the Spahn and Barker ranch raids. Main reason was while I was stationed at Camp Pendleton (Ca) there was a report of  someone stealing grenades and other armaments. The only people having access to the armory would have been Marines (to my knowledge). Any help sure would be appreciated...

Brown Decides Against Release

From CNN:

California Gov. Jerry Brown reversed a decision to grant parole to Bruce Davis, a former follower of Charles Manson. "When considered as a whole, I find the evidence ... shows why he currently poses a danger to society if released from prison," the governor wrote.

Brown's office had received a formal recommendation from the state board parole Friday to release Davis, 70, who would have been the first Manson "family" member to secure freedom solely for good behavior.

In 2010, Davis secured his first formal recommendation for parole by the state board, but then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger reversed the board's decision.

 CBS:

http://www.cbs3springfield.com/story/21438387/governor-denies-parole-to-ex-manson-follower

The Steamer Trunks and The Timeline

... Continued from a previous thread, which was continued from a previous thread.

Splotches would indicate a pooling, there were 3 drops of blood on the trunks that dripped in a downward motion indicative of someone (bleeding) standing over them as they were being knocked over or after they were knocked into that position.

Look at the attached photo and take notice of a couple of things:

A) If you had the luxury to reverse a film footage of these being knocked over you would be able to see that they were neatly set (handle side up) against the inside living room wall, in front of a flat brown box, opening clasps facing inward, and out of the way. If you then ran the film forward and knocked into them in a struggle, they would then fall (depending on angle hit and force) in the approximate position they're depicted in, in this photo.

B) The trunk openings are facing toward the wall. The left trunk is still inches from the brown box. The average thinking person would turn the trunks out toward them to search them or move them away from the wall. So, not only are they left in an awkward search position, but again, the close proximity to the flat brown box would indicate they were knocked over from that position and never opened.

C) Notice the right trunk. There are three blood drops on the carpet - two of which are a direct trajectory from the blood spots on the trunk. These three drops are on the carpet at the bottom edge of the trunk which, in my mind, is absolute proof that the trunks were knocked over during the commission of the crimes and never moved or searched. Had these trunks moved even a centimeter after the murders the bloods drop would no longer line up as they do in the photo.

These trunks were heavy, therefore, in my mind, a delivery person had them on a hand dolly cart - handles up - pushed them into the living room, against that inner wall, out of the way, and left them there in that position until Sharon could deal with unpacking them. Even if you went out on a crazy-pants limb to say that the delivery person (and later an entire household) left the trunks in the middle of a major pathway of the house and that they were then knocked over while Jay was being moved to the front porch and in turn left out in the middle of the room, you still couldn't get the blood spots to match as they do. It all makes zero sense.

Sander's book - How does he know it was 2AM when they returned to Spahn? Again, this is all speculation in Bugliosi's prosecution to fit HIS timeline of events, which, quite frankly don't add up. There were no clocks at Spahn. People completely lose all sense of time during stressful periods. How do we know that it wasn't 3AM or 3:30AM when they returned. We don't and neither could any one of the killers because there were no clocks from the time they left Spahn to the time that they returned. It's all speculation!

First, lets look at the drive from Cielo after the murders. Kasabian (and therefore Bugliosi) put forth that the killers changed clothes in the car and then pulled off their first chance to dump the clothing - which was almost at the top of Benedict. Then, they went back down Benedict Canyon to Portola to hose off? And then went back up Benedict, across Mulholland and over Beverly Glen (where they dumped the gun) and then drove down into the Valley. Makes absolutely no sense - except that a TV crew supposedly recreated the actions to find the ravine where the clothes were found.

Still, this  series of events makes absolutely no sense when you're a killer escaping a crime scene - what, you hang around endlessly driving up and down Benedict? No. I would put forth that a more sensical scenario is that all but Watson changed clothes on the drive up Benedict. They then stopped at Portola simply for Watson to change clothes on a side street out of sight. But then saw the  Weber hose and decided to also wash the blood from their hands and face. They then ran into Weber, made a break for it and proceeded up Benedict. How did the news crew find the spot? Because the only ravine on Benedict between Portola and Mulholland would have been where they actually dumped the clothing and where the news crew later found them. 

Weber? Hm, you have a retired couple, frightened while awakened in the middle of the night. Again, I think that this was a guestimate of time - lets remember that Weber didn't give his account of the time until months after the murders. If, on the piece of paper Weber had noted the time along with the license tag, I might be less skeptical, but prosecution cases are lost all the time on eyewitness accounts because people aren't always accurate with their memories. And, all prosecutors love to have a timeline that they refuse to deviate from - it lost Marcia Clark the OJ Simpson conviction.

How do we know that during an interview with Bugliosi, again, months after the incident, that Weber didn't say he encountered the group in the "middle of the night" and Bugliosi asked, "Could it have been around 1A?" Yes. "Do you think that's accurate?" Sure, it sounds about right. So Weber's account, after being rehearsed with Bugliosi prior to his testimony - because in Bugliosi's own words, you never ask a witness a question you don't already know the answer to -  went something like:"What time would you estimate that this occurred?" Around 1AM... And, at that moment, history, albeit possibly inaccurate history, is recorded for all time.

Also, let's remember that Bugliosi's entire timeline revolves around a clock radio that was unplugged at 12:15A. Billy G's recollection of events that night is sketchy at best. How do we know that Steven didn't demonstrate the clock for him, unplug it and then stay for another hour? Didn't Billy even say something to the effect that the clocks in the house weren't working so he picked up the phone to call "time" and that's how he knew the phone lines weren't working? So, his estimate of when Steve left his house is very sketchy to me.

Again, I'm not saying that this account is accurate, I'm just saying that I can weave any scenario I want to fit my own needs. If the killers had been sighted on Topanga Canyon at 4AM, I guarantee that Bugliosi could have then taken all the "later time" accounts, brought them in as witnesses and made it work to his favor just as easily.