Monday, September 8, 2014

The Death Penalty and the Fairness of California's Parole System

With Deb the Chief Assassin's help I was able to find the identity of another woman who was on death row in CA at the same time as the Manson Girls.

Her name is Linda Lee Haines. Below is a little insight into Haines, who in 1970 murdered a 33 year old mother of 5 children. Why? Because Linda was having an affair with her husband and wanted her out of the way. Like Susan, Patricia and Leslie she had a taste for the macabre:

Like Susan, Patricia and Leslie, Linda Lee Haines was sentenced to die in California's gas chamber. And like Susan, Patricia and Leslie she also had a flair for courtroom antics:

Like Susan, Patricia and Leslie, Linda Lee Haines's death sentence was commuted to life when the United States Supreme Court temporarily set aside the death penalty in 1972.

But unlike Susan, Patricia and Leslie Linda Lee Haines was eventually paroled. All four women were sentenced to die in California's gas chamber. Haines was freed. Susan, Patricia and Leslie, not so much.

We have verified that Linda Lee Haines now lives in CA under a different name and from all we can see lives a comfortable middle class life at age 67.

Why was Haines granted parole when the Manson girls weren't? Is it that some murderers -- that is, the ones who aren't famous -- are much more easily pardoned? Thoughts?


Suze said...

Fair points. It's not that I think that the girls should be freed but this points out inherent unfairness in the system. It would be interesting to read the parole transcript & see what she presented differently than these three.

Dilligaf said...

I do not believe you can look at these crimes as if they occurred in a vacuum or that all murders are the same. Look at the totality of the TLB, Hinman, Shea crimes, as opposed to the single murder, and the acts thereof. Look at the motivating factors instigating the killings. Look at the behavior of the inmates, their level of remorse, honesty, and attitudes. I am not saying that the parole system is fair or unfair, only that the crimes are not the same.

Robert Hendrickson said...

We just got some rain in LA - PROOF that the Indian RAIN dance works !

NOW, without being too "cryptic" Visualize the famous image of Lady Justice (blind-folded) and holding the "WEIGHT scale." Makes YOU think "Gee, Justice for ALL" Right !

EXCEPT it's a WEIGHT scale (legendary for weighing GOLD.) Get it NOW - Lady Justice is weighing the GOLD (monetary measure) to determine WHO wins the case / gets the justice they deserve.

TODAY the same scale is used to measure cocaine, weed, etc.

BUT some "teacher" in your life told YOU that "scale" was used for measuring JUSTICE and WE all bought into to the SYSTEM. BUT it's NOT really even a "system," EXCEPT that each individual JUDGE has his own "system" of measuring how much GOLD it takes to WIN his favor.

Patty is Dead said...

This post should make it clear that whether you think Bruce and Leslie should be released or not, they ARE most certainly political prisoners.

Max Frost said...

Ditto Patty.

CarolMR said...

I agree with Dilligaf - multiple murders vs. a single murder. And TLB seemed to be much more planned as opposed to a murder that may have been considered a crime of passion.

starship said...

I would like to know if anyone advocated for the victims at all during the parole hearings. If the victims were poor, or monority, or immigrants perhaps, and they didn't have a nice middle class at least family to take up their cause, or a bunch of bloggers who rally the masses to write letters to the Gov and/or parole board, then this type of things happens.

Ever see the LAPD video of the crime scene at the Wonderland murders? All of the victims there were fairly unsavory characters. It's on the DVD of the movie and easily available online. Can you imagine if one had been made at 10050 Cielo Drive? Do you think the powers that be or Doris Tate would ever have allowed it to be used so casually as a special feature on a DVD?

starship said...

Monority? Good word I guess, but I menat minority...

CrisPOA said...

It's just the same to me: parole in life sentence? So there's no such thing as a life sentence.

Matt said...

I don't know, Carol. Details on this case are very hard to come by, but crimes of passion don't normally incur the death penalty.

Also, given that she tampered with the crime scene evidence, moved the body, etc to make it look like an accident makes me think she planned it out.

It's the progression from Death Row to Life to Parole that is the head scratcher for me.

Dill, do you know of any way to get info on this case?

CarolMR said...

Hi, Matt. CrisPOA made a good point - that there is no such thing as a life sentence anymore. Maybe there are three reasons why the TLB murderers are still in prison: 1. They killed multiple people 2. Their victims were famous and connected to Hollywood 3. The victims had an incredible advocate in Doris Tate.

Matt said...

Word-up, Carol and Chris!

Jenn said...

Has anyone who has receive the sentence "life without the possibility of parole" (not available in Tate/Labianca era) been paroled? I think not. Therefore, life sentences do (now) exist.

Max Frost said...

You're right Dilligaf - the crimes aren't the same.

But there's a big difference between a well known (internationally) case vs an unheard of case.

Again, I'm not arguing for their release...but the fact is they carry a MAJOR disadvantage compared to the average murderer/criminal, regardless of the totality of the crime(s).

Robert Hendrickson said...

I just found out the famous early American PAUL REVERE was an out-an-out PRINT "pirate."

YES - he got a hold of another man's artwork and published it - even before the artist had a chance to publish his own work. That raises the question - How illegal was it three hundred years ago to steal another man's work ?
Remember - Squeaky was given a LIFE sentence for ATTEMPTING to KILL a US President. Most folks don't realize that our LAWS and supposed SYSTEM of Justice have evolved over time.
NEW laws are written and changed all the time. In fact - if Congress is NOT busy writing NEW laws - we think Congress is just a waste of taxpayer's money.
AND if Judges do not exercise arbitrary discretion in their decision making, what do we need a judge for ? A clerk could issue a correct sentence and CORRECT parole decision.

BUT then, there would be NO drama - and without drama - there would be NO entertainment - and without entertainment - well, there wouldn't be much to talk about around the water cooler - and that could lead to the collapse of the great American empire.

DRAMA is a drug. Look more carefully and see if you can identify the "drama addicts" in your circle of friends. Maybe JFK, LBJ and the Manson Family were simply a bunch of "drama queens" providing US all with some really far-out entertainment. Oh, what a TRIP.

Patty is Dead said...

When the drama gets to Patty she hops in the Jeep and blasts some fucking L7:

"one and one and one is two
We got a drama
I'm watching tv and I don't need you
Bring on the drama
I'll tell you something and you know it's true
You're full of drama
My piss is yellow and the sky is blue
We got a drama

Spare me
You're draining me!!!!"

Yeah baby...Music soothes the soul

Robert Hendrickson said...

YEH ! Patty, that's what I'm talking about: Lead singer pulls used tampon out of HER vagina and tosses it to the crowd. Young'ns eat that stuff up.

Reminds me when stopped by Sheriff Ward and Highwayman Pursell in Death Valley. I start filming (see Inside the MANSON Gang) and Kevin gets out of the truck - pulls his pants down - and takes a shit right there by the side of the road. As if none of this shit is going to bother him, Craig calmly lights up one of his trademark Camels. Even the two cops pay NO attention, but after we left I bet they went and got the turds for evidence they did some work that day.

Hey Stonner find any turds at Spahn Ranch - check the DNA with Manson's and you may have something valuable. Ohhhh - without need for DRAMA we all would be Republicans.

ColScott said...

Oh Look that self righteous L and O Buffoon Dilligaf migrated to the big leagues over here at MISTER MATTS TLB FROLICS.

The crimes are the same. The difference is the notoriety. Life ain't fair. If Bobby or Leslie were just killers, they'd be out. But so be it. The best solution is THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

Matt said...

Well thanks for clearing that up for us, Col. No need for anyone else to offer their opinion or knowledge - the difference is the notoriety.

stoner van houten said...

hey robert....i havent found any turds yet..LMAO!!!..BUT I WILL KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR THEM...i did find some ''coors'' beer cans..maybe craigs beer?.lol...''its already 9am and craigs already crack a coors beer''..(inside the manson gang)...if you could just remember how he opened it that would be interesting.?..i have found a lot of pull-tabs and 2 church keys for opening a beer can...did craig ever carry a key to open beer..??...if your showing up at the ranch and you say craigs cracking a guessing it was a pull-tab beer would have been easier..right.?? just guessing know its just a beer can i dug up,but i try to find a story to why its there.??..sounds meaningless,but to me it's fun and

ColScott said...

Matt- no problem The Col can always answer for you. Do you really need the opinions of anonymous posters of the internet? What are you, twelve?

Patty- we used L7 in a film - Danita is awesomeness.

M. Hendrickson- do you spend your nights filling in fortune cookies or something?

Patty is Dead said...

Patty met Danita once...well sort of...she was sitting on a sofa in Island Vista. Patty's friend who wrote for the school paper (who went on to blog for the LA Times and is now head of social media for The Academy) said, "Patty, this is Danita." Patty said, "Hi! I love your music!" Danita said, "uh."

Patty is Dead said...

Oops, that's Isla, not Islandd. HI STONEY!

ColScott said...

I didnt say she was eloquent. Not like Pizza Folding Matt!

Matt said...

When I was a kid L7 was code for someone being a square.

Patty is Dead said...

Patty's best friend got good and drunk once and was sitting on the toilet. She looked down at the tag on her panties and it said "L-7." That's what she and Patty always thought it meant...Matt yours makes more

beauders said...

I thought a L7 was a machine gun.

Dilligaf said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

♪ ♫ Wooly Bully ♪ ♫

sbuch113 said...

Another notorious California criminal formally sentenced to death, Charles "Chuck" Riley may soon see freedom.

In June of 1975 Chuck and his sixteen year old girlfriend Marlene Olive brutally beat and shot her parents to death then burned the bodies in a remote area of Marin County.
The crime shocked California to its core.

Marlene escaped harsh punishment because of her age.
California had soft laws on the books for juvenile offenders.....she did a few years in CYA.
Chuck on the other hand was nineteen......he was sentenced to death.
His sentence was overturned because of the Manson crew.

Chuck has been a model prisoner for nearly forty years.
Fourteen failed parole attempts.
Now......a California appeals court has ruled that Chuck has "gained maturity and insight during his decades in prison, poses little risk of violence and should be paroled".

California certainly does have a broken system.

I have followed this case for years.
A tragic story and great book "Bad Blood, A Family Murder In Marin County".

Anonymous said...

I do believe that Bruce Davis and Van Houten would definitely have been out of prison years ago if not for their connection to the Manson family. So yes I also agree that the term political prisoner applies to them. Personally I think they need to stay where they are and I'm glad to see them doing just that. I feel all people who murder when it isn't self defense or with some kind of sane reasoning behind it deserve to stay in prison. One other difference I see between the " Manson" murders and the others being discussed here is that the others were done by people towards other people that they knew. There was a connection. That takes away the fear factor for a lot of people. Whether it was a case of jealousy with one woman killing another over a man, or the second case mentioned when it was teenage kids killing parents. Both were very heinous crimes and seemingly needing the harshest punishments possible. IMO they should still be locked up. However, another difference between these crimes and the Manson murders ( besides the "notoriety" of the victims in Tate/LaBianca case) is that these others killed people they knew and for a reason. A messed up reason to be sure but that doesn't make the general public afraid of them in the way the Manson Murderers did. Rightly or wrongly to this day many people still think these were random killings ordered by a madman and carried out by a bunch of bloodthirsty people who seemed to have no problem slaughtering people, quite the opposite they talked about enjoying it. So, I do see the difference in the cases. It's not just the notoriety of the victims, it's that the TLB crimes made people feel that they could be vulnerable...when the woman killed her "love interest" or the young kid killed parents it's as horrible as any other crimes you read about but it doesn't make you afraid for yourself. The Manson murders did do that, and it's just my opinion but I feel like that is another factor as to why the Manson killers are still in prison and will probably stay there. People felt vulnerable and that it could be them next. Letting these murderers free would be a lot more upsetting to the public than letting the lady free who killed her lovers spouse all those years ago. JMO anyway, and something that came to mind earlier.

John Seger said...

Col Sanders, your cranky, insultive, holier than thou, opinionated, grumpy scribblings never cease to make me laugh At you(Never laughing WITH you..sorry). You are good for a laugh. Now be a good Grandpa and go eat your bucket of chicken at Spawn Ranch, followed by a Geritol tablet and some BenGay cream.. Finger lickin' good. mmm mmm good.

Robert Hendrickson said...

One half of the human brain deals with emotion and the other half intellectual / analytical thinking.

So where does the "spirit" thought (soul) dwell ? Is it merely an individual's mixture of emotional and intellectual thinking ? The "intermixing" of types of thought is what gets us ALL into trouble OR provides US with a path to good FORTUNE. Cookies does it for some - religion or politics for others, BUT in the end, ALL roads lead to a DEAD end.

IF you don't know how to drive, it's probably best to get OFF the highway.