Monday, June 10, 2019

MansonBlog Tour 2019: What's with Horn Avenue?


While on the Mansonblog tour this year, I requested that we go by a particular street in West Hollywood.

Horn Avenue looking towards Sunset Blvd.


There is a little street named Horn Avenue that is off Sunset Boulevard.  The street is just two blocks long and intersected by a single street, Shoreham Drive.  While just a short street it does have quite a few residents due to a handful of apartment buildings on the long side of the street.  Between the apartment buildings there are single family residences.


 
Horn is conveniently located in the heart of the Sunset Strip just a couple of blocks east of the Whisky a-go-go and a couple of blocks west of Mel’s Drive-In.

Horn Avenue came to my attention because it’s where Bernard “Lottsapapa” Crowe was arrested for forgery at the end of March 1970.  Crowe, who was arrested with three others, claimed that the apartment at 1211 Horn Avenue was his residence.  However, we know that Crowe actually lived on Woodrow Wilson Drive up in Laurel Canyon.



The newspaper article telling about his arrest erroneously gives the name as Horn Street, there is no Horn Street in West Hollywood or Los Angeles.  The house number is consistent with an apartment building on Horn Avenue.  The apartment building where Crowe was arrested has 16 units.

1211 Horn Avenue


Not long after learning about Crowe’s “other” residence I was reading the first homicide report for the Tate murders.  The report details the movements of Wojiciech Frykowski in the afternoon of the night of the murders.  At about 3 PM Frykowski left the Tate residence and went over to Jay Sebring’s home on Easton Drive.  Apparently, Sebring had asked Frykowski to pick up Suzan Peterson who had been Sebring’s companion the previous night, and Frykowski was to take her to her home.

They first made a stop at Witold Kaczanowski’s gallery on Wilshire Boulevard, where Frykowski’s wanted to pick up a key to the house on Woodstock.  The key to the house was not in Kaczanowski’s possession so Frykowski, Peterson and Kaczanowski all went to another person’s home and eventually secured the key.  After dropping Kaczanowski off back at he the gallery Frykowski finally took Peterson home.


Turns out that Suzan Peterson lived, according to the report, on Horn Street!

Okay, a second reference to Horn, be it street or avenue.  Horn sometimes had N. in front of it.  This is true of most the streets on the north side of Sunset Blvd. though it doesn't usually show on maps, just on the street signs.

In an endeavor to find Peterson’s exact address on Horn, I looked through several newspaper articles.  I was not able to determine her exact address but I did find that there had been another arrest on Horn not long after Crowe’s arrest.
 
On June 18 1969 an article in the Van Nuys Valley News reported that law enforcement had made arrests of several people for breaking into travel agencies and stealing blank airline tickets.

According to other articles in the Los Angeles Times the robberies had been taking place for two or three years prior to the arrests but the airlines were reluctant to press charges against those using the stolen tickets, they figured they could eat the loss in favor of good customer relations.  When the airlines found they were suffering more and more losses they decided to report the stolen airline tickets to law enforcement.  Law enforcement had been investigating the robberies for at least six months prior to the arrests.

The initial newspaper article explains the depth of the stolen airline tickets and just how lucrative a business it could be for those who were stealing the tickets.



There were three people of those arrested that got my attention because they lived at 1211 Horn Avenue.  They are David P. Marsh, 23; Stephen E. Pankey, 26; Linda Faye Cody,22. That’s very same address that Lottsapapa was using for his forgery business.  Since it was an apartment building it’s more than likely that they lived in different apartments.
 
Another two people in that group, Dennis A. Blum, 23, and Jack R. Mirsky, 23, lived at 840 Larrabee Street.  This was the same address that Joel Rostau gave when he reported a break-in at his apartment back in March 1969.  Rostau was living a couple of blocks over at 999 Doheny when he was murdered in May 1970.



What the heck is going on?  How is it that these two criminal enterprises, Crowe’s forgery business and the stolen airline tickets, which have a rather symbiotic relationship could be operating in the same building at roughly the same time?

Joe Guntman aka Joe Gunn seemed to be the head of this particular gang of eight people.  His own company Shady Productions was located at 8780 Sunset Blvd. which is a block and a half from the intersection of Horn Avenue.

The Los Angeles Times was more forthcoming in naming the entertainers who were busted using the stolen tickets than the Van Nuys Valley News.  Some of those in the entertainment industry were 15 people traveling with Carlos Santana who were arrested in New York on their way to London and Linda Ronstadt and five backup musicians were stopped in San Francisco on their way to Honolulu.  They said their tickets were given to them by their manager, the tickets were stolen in a robbery in Hollywood on April 27, 1970.
 
The weekend prior to the arrests of the gang, Eric Burden and War were stopped at the Anchorage Alaska airport with tickets that were stolen in the Los Angeles area.

A 1972 newspaper article told of a group of people who were arrested back east for stealing and selling airline tickets.  In this article the FBI and Interpol joined forces for the arrests because “underworld figures” were using the tickets to smuggle drugs and to unload “millions of dollars in stolen securities throughout Europe.”
 


It’s not a stretch to consider that Joel Rostau may have been using stolen tickets when going abroad while he was unloading securities Europe, stolen from the U.S. mail at airports.  If one were to purchase a fake driver’s license and social security card from “Lottsapapa” and his crew it would be a simple thing, back in those days, to get a passport in an assumed name and to conduct business under the radar.  Grab yourself some cut-rate airline tickets and you’re good to go!

While on tour, Dreath and I endeavored to locate reverse street directories for West Hollywood so we could find out exactly in what apartment each of those arrested resided and when. Also, to find out what was the address where Suzan Peterson lived on Horn Avenue.  We went to the West Hollywood Library only to find that there was no such animal for the years we required that included Horn Avenue.  The adult services librarian, David Davis, did his best to help us going as far as phoning other library branches to see if they had the information we sought and even sent a follow up email after we returned home.
 
So, if all that isn’t enough, I also learned that there is a connection to Horn Avenue with Dianne Linkletter, who committed suicide October 4 1969 by jumping out her sixth-floor kitchen window to her death.  Dianne lived at 8787 Shoreham Drive.  Remember I said earlier that the only street to intersect Horn Avenue was Shoreham Drive.  The location of Dianne’s apartment in that building was across the street from 1211 Horn Avenue.

Shoreham Towers fronts Shoreham Drive. Dianne's apartment was on the left facing 1211 Horn Avenue.

 
Dianne had apparently called her friend Edward Durston to come to her apartment in the middle of the night because she wanted to talk.  Durston arrived at the apartment about 3 AM.  Durston did not have far to go because he lived at 1211 Horn Avenue.  Though Ed Durston was not considered a suspect in Linkletter's death, his presence at the accidental 1985 death of Carol Wayne, in Mexico, raised some eyebrows.  Wayne was a television and film actress who made numerous appearances on the Johnny Carson Show as Art Fern's Tea Time Movie lady.

Los Angeles Times Oct. 5, 1969


Later newspaper articles said that Linkletter was a friend of Abigail Folger and probably knew Sharon Tate.  The article went on to say that Durston was a “speaking acquaintance” of Voityck Frokowski.

Independent Press-Telegram Oct. 18, 1969


Four days after Dianne Linkletter’s suicide another woman committed suicide, this time by overdose.  She had told her husband that she was despondent over the Linkletter suicide.  The woman, Toni Monti, lived at 1211 Horn Avenue.



If there ever was a place for paranormal activity in West Hollywood, I think it would be on Horn Avenue.


All of this led me to conclude that if “Lottsapapa” had any connection, no matter how small, to the Tate/LaBianca saga, that connection would lie with the victims and not the Manson Family.  "Lottsapapa" sure as heck didn't have anything to do with the Family after he was shot by Manson.  Frykowsky had been to Horn Avenue on the day of his death.  Sebring most likely was familiar with Horn Avenue because of Suzan Peterson.

I was never able to reach that ah-ha moment with all of this information but if you can come up with something, I'm all ears.





87 comments:

SixtiesRockRules! said...

Now you're getting close to the real motive behind the Tate murders, Deb S. Very good information, and now you might all want to check out zodiackilleridentified.com (if you haven't done so already) to learn the name harvey dareff. Turns out he may well have been at ceilo drive on august 8th, 1969 to sell or purchase drugs. Was dareff an associate of joel rostau? We will likely never know the answer to that, but we DO know he was dianne linkletter's live-in boyfriend in the summer of 1969. This whole angle regarding linkletter's and durston's friendship with several of the Tate victims, not to mention its possible connection to linkletter's odd "suicide", deserves way more attention from TLB researchers than it has thus far been given.

Matt said...

I think once you begin connecting Crowe, Rostau, Dareff and Linkletter then it goes from good detective work straight into conspiracy theory. The coincidences are marvelous but documentation is vital first.


FrankM said...

The problem with circumstantial coincidences is simply that: they are coincidences. However, to those with eyes to see they become confirming instances of hatching plans. Beware of confirming instances - and remember that against each one there can be counterbalanced an infinite number of nonconforming instances. The basis of all good theory is triangulation: double checking, without which all is simply conjecture ands guesswork. Not to diminish the value of Debs' detective work, as usual the fruits of hard endeavor.

Matt said...

Exactly, Frank. Sleuth Superba Deb has established residency and timeframes. Those alone are significant. However one must always resist the temptation to dive into the abyss.


SixtiesRockRules! said...

Hi matt...I don't disagree with your point about "diving into the abyss", but isnt it interesting that this link between the Tate victims and linkletter, durston and dareff was hardly ever mentioned in the local (LA) media during the manson trials and NEVER mentioned once by either bugliosi or sanders in their respective books. I, as much as anyone else interested in this case, would love to have more hard documentation backing up these connections, but sometimes circumstantial evidence is all we have.

Matt said...

SixtiesRockRules! , please email me when you have time.


David said...

SixtiesRock said: "but isnt it interesting that this link between the Tate victims and linkletter, durston and dareff was hardly ever mentioned in the local (LA) media during the manson trials and NEVER mentioned once by either bugliosi or sanders in their respective books."

Which, of course could also mean that the police investigated this and determined there was no substantive connection. IMO the abyss is a dangerous place to go. Other murders with multiple stab wounds, a Panther stabbed multiple times and shot, Rostau knew someone who knew someone, etc.

"Think, know, prove". The key there is the last one and the one that ultimately matters, as Deb noted.

Mon Durphy said...

Didn't Rostau and Crowe both live on Larabbee at one point? That street is right of Sunset kind of like Horn

Mon Durphy said...

Probably because there's a big Hollywood name to protect there with Linkletter, look at it this way, with as much as both Melcher and Dennis Wilson were involved in this case do you think Bugliosi would keep their names out of the case to the extent he did as opposed to if their names were Joe Smith and Bill Johnson? The group pretty much lived at Wilson's place for months and Bugs doesn't even call him to testify lol

Mon Durphy said...

On this I agree with you, when I read the above text I couldn't help but think it's interesting but Hollywood and the Strip is such a small area relative to other areas that it's not all that strange that people with periphery involvement in the case would live on the same little side streets off Sunset, I'm pretty sure I remember reading in the report that even Harrigan and Doyle moved onto a street off Sunset called Kings Rd after Doyle showed up to Cass Elliot's place with a couple of pounds of coke and she told him to get lost

Mon Durphy said...

Another little oddity would be the Franklin Gardens apartments where the Crowe rip off happened bring literally s stones throw from Manson's late 50s apartment that served as his little escort service, obviously it's 10 years apart and purely coincidental but it's the proximity of the locations I'm talking about

DebS said...

Mon Durphy said...
Didn't Rostau and Crowe both live on Larabbee at one point? That street is right of Sunset kind of like Horn

I am not aware of Crowe ever living on Larrabee, just Woodrow Wilson and then the Horn address popped up when he was arrested for forgery. I suspect that Crowe didn't actually live at the Horn address but rather he used it as a place of business.

Larrabee is 8-10 blocks long and is on either side of Sunset Blvd.

Mon Durphy said...

Actually it was Rostau and Watson who lived on Larrabee, have you heard of Larrabee as a Watson address? I have to admit I can't remember where I read it only that it came up on a list when I googled past residences of Tex

DebS said...

Yes, I have heard that, it's at this website.

http://www.movielanddirectory.com/star.cfm?star=77107

That said, this site also says that Tex's wig shop was at 9499 Santa Monica Blvd and we tried to find that address while we were on tour this year and we were unable to find it.

Mon Durphy said...

Is that guy who went into business with Tex still alive? The guy Brian did an interview a few years ago who Syanon came after with the snake in the mailbox

DebS said...

I don't recall the roommate's name, so i don't know.

Mon Durphy said...

Paul Morantz, I just remembered it, Brian took down his old programs but I know they met working for a guy who had a wig shop and was running a scam to where he'd get women in the store promising them a cheap wig then Tex or Paul would give them the hard sell for something more expensive, Paul said Tex actually got to the point where he felt guilty about it and quit and started his own shop but it folded a short time later, he did say the shop was on Santa Monica Blvd

DebS said...

Yes, he's still living. He has a website-

http://www.paulmorantz.com/

DebS said...

Jay Sebring was in the 1965 movie, Synanon. He played Jay the barber. Alex Cord, Joanna Pettet's husband at the time of the Tate murders, was one of the stars in the film.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059774/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

Mon Durphy said...

I see The Rifleman Chuck Connors is in it lol, my all time favorite TV show

ColScott said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Mon Durphy said...
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ColScott said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Mon Durphy said...
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Panamint Patty said...
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ColScott said...
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Mon Durphy said...
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David said...

So here is how this works when I'm around.

You want to insult each other with some relevant comment, at least tangentially related to the post, I don't care.

You want it to take that to the next personal level like a bunch of teenagers, I'm not interested and since I'm not interested and my name is up there on the right......

Col, you want to repost your first comment without the second and third comments, fine by me.

Mon Durphy said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
David said...

And before you whine about the 1st Amendment.....read it.

Mon Durphy said...
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Peter said...

The hammer comes down.

Matthew Record said...

I must have missed a lot while I am sleeping and ya'll are up typing away. Lots of deleted posts. Must have become heated. Oh well, you snooze you lose.

Peter said...

In this case you won. It was pretty dumb even by this place's standards. No offence D.

Gorodish said...

My guess was that it was the inevitable shootout between a certain two bloggers; one being annoyed with the multiple postings using the spoonerism of his name. In any case Peter is probably right....we didn't miss much.

David said...

Peter,

I'm not sure what your comment means.

The posts I deleted last night were a series of insults fired back and forth between two and in one case three people that except for the first comment mentioned had absolutely nothing to do with this post, TLB, Manson, the 1960's, music, personal experiences or anything else. I don't intend to leave that stuff up.


No, Gorodish, you didn't miss anything.

Matt said...

^^^ There's a new Sheriff in town!


Peter said...

I saw the posts as I sat stranded on a delayed LIRR train. I meant don't take offense that I besmirched the standards of the blog when i said "even by this place's standards."

What was particularly annoying was that Mon Durphy kept adding "LOL" to all his comments like they were some kind of "sick burn." But they weren't even funny. It was just stuff from the Colonel's wikipedia page or IMDB page. Unless Mon Durphy is actually Quentin Tarantino, he seemed kind of jealous of the Colonel. I don't see how going to an almost-Ivy League school or being associated with one of the most lucrative film franchises is supposed to be a put-down. But I'm just a small town antitrust lawyer, so what do I know?

And then the Colonel showed up and dragged Patty and Stoner into it and we all know where that leads.

Peter said...

One way ticket to deletion town.

Mon Durphy said...

Well I'm a disbarred attorney from Torrance and I thought my posts were funny

ColScott said...

so I have an article about the ending of the Tarantino film that Orca Tate was clearly paid to support and it sits idle because Matt, who still hasn't spoken to me for years BECAUSE of Stoner, wants to finish the tour posts, one slow week at a time. This of course discourages me finishing the review of the O'Neill book nonsense because who wants to wait weeks for other people's holiday snaps?

Then I come back here and this David bozo has gone all Benito Flake Mussolini on my posts, getting jollied about deleting posts because his small penis is compensated for. Amazing. There is no first amendment right to a comments section of course, but treating your readers like they are all retarded, as opposed to just Mon, is exactly WHY the stats of the blog are way way down. No one HAS to read any post ffs. I never read Grim's but I never thought he should be deleted just mocked!

It is fucking sad that two people's hero worship of Clem the Crazy and desire for muderabilia has sidetracked a once great site.

Delete away David, you'll still be a micro penis anyways!

ColScott said...

I also wanted to shout out to Deb S- I researched that Carol Wayne stuff a few years ago- she had been on I Dream of Jeannie when I was a kid- and it is some wild creepy stuff

Peter said...

I Dream of Jeannie really isn't that creepy. Unless you think Jeannie hiding behind a giant coffee cup is creepy or something.

ColScott said...

Read Better- the Carol Wayne shit is creepy. OO-EE-OO level

also Jeannie had no navel so there's that

beauders said...

Yep Carol Wayne's death was very OO-EE-OO.

Logan said...

Deb S, I always appreciate your erudite and well-researched posts. To longtime lurkers/sparse commenters like me, your expertise and dedication to research is both staggering and beyond admirable. Thank you for sharing your research!

Also, y'alls discussion of Carol Wayne's death led me to do a bit of wiki searching, wherein I read that Edward Durston was the last person to see both Diane Linkletter & Carol Wayne alive, which is fishy as hell. Durston, I read, is the director of the great Manson-inspired exploitation gem, I Drink Your Blood. "Let it be known, sons and daughters, that Satan was an acidhead"

Mon Durphy said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Mon Durphy said...

Somebody else deleted my posts except for one, ask the admin about it

DebS said...

Logan, thank you very much!

It was David Edward Durston who made the movie "I Drink Your Blood". He was born Sept. 20, 1921 and died May 5, 2010. He was openly gay, had no children.

Edward Dale Durston, was born Sept. 4, 1942 and died Feb. 6, 2007. His father was Westley James Durston (1905-1974). Westley did not have any brothers named David.

I noticed the same thing and checked on it but as near as I can tell they were not related.

Doug said...

Here Come Bootsie Nightengale (1967)

https://dai.ly/x3lojva

Logan said...

Deb- thank you for clearing up my misconception!

CATSCRADLE77 said...

Col -

I will not see the Tarantino movie but from what I heard about the "ending" I find it distasteful on many levels. Somehow to take brutal murders and change fact for entertainment purposes seems way over the imagined line of art and taste.

I did not know there was money exchanged for the support of the ending, and what is the exchange rate for exploitation these days?

When you say you have an article- is it something you have written about it with sources? Or is it something someone else wrote?

Just curious.

Much love to you and yours.

StillGrooving said...

I've been reading this blog for more than several years and rarely post comments, but I always check out the comments by other readers. Maybe I don't pay enough attention to the names, but an administrator by the name of "David" doesn't ring a bell. Maybe he should introduce himself to the rest of us. I, for one, would appreciate learning more about the people who administer this blog. How about you folks include a short biography of yourselves?

Peter said...

Just the basics. Name, address, social security number, where your children go to school.

Matt said...

StillGrooving said...
How about you folks include a short biography of yourselves?


Sorry man, we try to write stuff that's actually interesting... :)

DebS said...

Peter my social security number is 666-66-6666!

prefeteria said...
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Mon Durphy said...
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GreenWhite said...

Fascinating post. I've kind of fallen into a lull of "nothing new can be learned" for several months and this is absolutely refreshing. Thank you.

Panamint Patty said...

As much as I dislike Mon or whatever his name is this week, he's being personally attacked. Will this blog's rules be applied evenly?

starship said...

Hey, all. So rumors are that Quentin Tarantino is playing with history again much like he did in Inglorious Basterds. That's too bad I guess, but I can kind of understand his sort of 'alternative universe' fixation, but I find it puzzling because it sure looks like he has meticulously worked to be as authentic as possible as far as recreating 1969 Hollywood. Check out the trailer and you'll see Spahn recreated and even though Manson reportedly is barely in it, the trailer shows him in front of a reasonable facsimile of the Hostess Twinkie truck or Wonderbread truck or whatever the hell it was. Tarantino is so detail oriented about such things, but then is going to end up way out in La La Land?

William Weston said...

Very interesting article, DebS. Great information!

I would just like to add one thing. Your map shows Sunset Oil on the corner of Sunset Boulevard and San Vicente. This would have been the gas station where Tex and the girls filled up Johnny Swartz’s car. Susan Atkins told Paul Caruso that the gas station was near the Stefanino’s restaurant which was located where the Wells Fargo Bank is shown on your map at 9229 Sunset Boulevard. The restaurant is now called Bootsy Bellows, a lavishly appointed Hollywood hotspot inside the bank building. (Stefanino’s might have been inside a bank building too.) It is a wonder why Tex and the girls went south to Sunset Boulevard, when they could have gone north toward Ventura Boulevard to find a gas station which is on the way to Spahn Ranch. With the information you provided, their preference for a gas station near Horn Avenue makes a lot of sense.

William Weston said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mon Durphy said...

Col must have incriminating pictures on whoever runs this site

Mon Durphy said...

I've been asking exactly that since looking at a map of LA as it pertains to this case, they commit the killings then make a left on Benedict Canyon going toward Mulholland and the Vslley, they wash off on Portola then pitch the clothes down the embankment then instead of heading the logical way back to Spahn northwest through the Valley they go back down Benedict Canyon to Sunset and the city and even more strangely back toward the scene of the crimes past Cielo, there's no way Tex was lost, there has to be a reason for going back down to Sunset, unloading some of the drugs he got at Cielo maybe? Who knows

DebS said...

Green White, thank you! It gets harder and harder to come up with new material and new perspectives because it has been 50 years since the crimes and it's been talked to death.

DebS said...

Panamint Patty said...
As much as I dislike Mon or whatever his name is this week, he's being personally attacked. Will this blog's rules be applied evenly?

Mon gets as good as he gives.

starship said...

Notice how Portola Drive is parallel to Easton Drive where Jay Sebring lived? Ever heard the theory that the killers were driving to Jay's house post murders (probably to recover drugs, cash, or both) but then made the wrong turn and ended up on Portola and the confrontation with the dude about his hose? From that they were scared off and decided to head back to the ranch?

DebS said...

William Weston, I actually did not consider the gas station location, thanks for pointing it out!

DebS said...

Mon, I've thought that the reason they drove over to Portola to wash off was because they were trying to find Jay Sebring's house which is on Easton in the next block and ended up on Portola because they didn't know for sure where they were going. Maybe just turned up the wrong street.

I can't answer to why they went to the gas station on Sunset unless, as William Weston suggested above, it had something to do with Horn Avenue.

Mon Durphy said...

Yes that's exactly what I've thought, also remember Texs response to Weber "we were just out walking and wanted a drink", I think they possibly parked on Portola and tried finding Jay's place on foot and doubled back when they couldn't find it

Mon Durphy said...

Yes Deb that's exactly what I think, see my post above about my theory

ColScott said...

Those who have extreme mental defect seem to think that after the adrenaline rush of murder while on speed Tex is thinking clearly. Which is hilarious since that is not something Mon has ever done.


Patty- why don't you delete the offensive dialogue? Rub it away so to speak

AstroCreep said...

Col- my thoughts exactly. The tendency to make rational from irrational-

For me, Susan has always been the lynchpin to what really went down. In all of her blabbing to her cell mates and to the lawyers/Grand Jury, the FACTS of the case have remained consistent.

Deb and others mention similar in that it’s hard to come up with new material because it’s a fifty year old case but in reality, it’s not because it’s an old case, it’s because there is NOTHING new.

Sure there are things (like this post and many others) we can learn. But as far as the facts of the case? Those haven’t really changed since December 1969.

Speculator said...

I appreciate the point about Watson’s state of mind immediately after the murders, but he did have the presence of mind to ditch the weapons, ditch the clothes AND wash down at the Weber place. To me those actions show that he was very much in control of himself and thinking clearly. So I think that there is merit to the point about there being a reason for their wayward route back to Spahn. I’ve always wondered why they got so spooked by an elderly Weber but presumably their fear there was the close proximity of other houses and that their kill cravings had been satisfied at Cielo.

William Weston said...

SixtiesRockRules! mentioned Harvey Dareff. On Bobby Jameson's blog he mentioned how he and Harvey were in the vicinity of 10050 Cielo Drive the night of the murders. Jameson and Dareff might have been at least two of the hippies that gave Garretson a ride back to the house from the Sunset Strip.

Jameson made the following comments about Diane Linkletter, Harvey's girlfriend.

"I went up to the apartment on Horn Ave. to talk to Ed Durston after Timmy Rooney told me Ed was in the apartment when Diane jumped from her 6th floor kitchen window. I also wanted to see Jimmy George, who lived below the apartment where Nancy and I had lived with Ed.

From what I'd learned, Jimmy had actually been outside his apartment, and seen Diane falling to the pavement below. At first he'd thought someone was playing a practical joke and had thrown something out the window, but then realized it was a person.

He didn't know at first it was Diane, and he'd seen her hit the ground. He was in shock, but ran over to where the person hit the pavement, and that is when he realized it was Diane. He told me he could not do anything for her, and it made him feel like an asshole.

He said she was still alive when he reached her, and that she looked up at him but couldn't speak. He said she was bleeding a lot from her head, and he wanted to help her, but didn't know what to do. I knew Jimmy, and he was a happy go lucky guy, but on this day he was broken in a way that is hard to describe, just broken."
"

Trilby said...

I can only comment briefly, & also as my cognition improves "Thank You"s will be on the way to each & every one of you who helped me in my fight for survival & expressed caring thoughts. Esp. Matt & Julie.
I can't read all the comments right now so I apologize in advance if someone has said this already. (I see the comment right above me mentions Bobby Jameson).Also, I apologize for rambling/my inability to be articulate these days.
Normally I would recall all the links, but still fuzzy-minded. So go to Police Report #2 - Bobby Jameson et al lived on Horn Ave at that time IIRC. Mickey Rooney Jr. And the guy running dope Jamaica-->US, IIRC, I can't think of his name. Damn malfunctioning neurons!!!!!
Deb & Dreath, you're uncovering something really big here, I think.
I need to check what the Cyrano's address was too (dope central re: mob distribution). Has anyone ever found more info on Setterholm? Because re: Police Report 2, I've connected Harry Baird to Iain Quarrier, black militants, BEL, Doyle/Harrigan, etc. (several yrs back, right before I had to stop researching.).Eugene (Gene) Massaro (dammit, not sure I have name right) fits in there too.
Again, sorry for incoherence.
Believe it or not, it took me forever to type that incoherent mess of a comment. :(
Love & Peace to you all.

Mon Durphy said...

William, Garretson mentioned the people who picked him up were in a van and IIRC it was 2 men and 2 women who Bill found attractive apparently, upon getting to the main part of Cielo Bill told them he wanted to get out but they insisted taking him up the hill, then when they get to the small four way stop where Cielo veers up the hill to the left and Bella Dr goes right he was even more forceful about getting out but they said we'll take you the rest of the way and got to the gate they somehow got Bill to let them in and one of the guys said "hey that's one of our friends cars" when they saw Jay's Porsche and said let's play a trick on him and according to Bill opened the door and got in it, they then told Bill they were on their way to a party but "if that party isn't happening we'll come party with you", this was during Brian Davis radio show in I believe 2012

DebS said...

William and Trilby, that's very interesting about Bobby Jameson. The police reports don't give an address for Bobby so I didn't know that. Too bad he has passed, he could have been a great person to speak with about who was at 1211 Horn Ave. But it does give me another direction to research.

Trilby said...

Deb, please give me turnaround time on this, but I will e-mail you some links to articles about a mobster: loan-sharking, drug dealing (coke), extortion, laundering, securities fraud, etc etc etc; guy by the name of Jack Catain. Google him & the owner of Cyrano's, the restaurant/bar that was at 8711 Sunset in those days. There was a mob-connected coke operation being run out of there & they supplied Rostau, Sebring, & from what I was told, Doyle & Harrigan at times re: coke. Harrigan's father was an infamous Ottawa bookie. Guy named H. Daniel Whitman (Dan Whitman) fronted as owner of Cyrano's in that era. Cyrano's also, interestingly, was within easy walking distance of Horn. And get this: Catain, a big-time mobster, was also involved in COUNTERFEITING. (Catain's kid, btw, followed in his father's footsteps.) I truly have always felt Catain possibly could be a link to LaBiancas. I wish I could trace him to Hollywood Bank re: Leno, b/c Catain later fronted an LA bank for $-laundering. I will try to find my file w/Jameson's specific address, but it was on Horn. And he was frequently at Cielo, all his later "Who, me?" bullsh*t aside (& I had that directly from someone who knew him in that time frame.). There's another guy in the PR2, IIRC surname Small, that interests me too. So many of these names in the PR2 were not only into running dope but GTA too. I've always found that odd.
I had tried to get Billy Doyle to talk to me a few years back but radio silence. The other thing I've always wondered is if Sid Korshak was the fixer in this case re: coming up w/an official narrative. How did Atkins & Harrigan both end up w/same mob lawyer? And Sebring's lawyer was another mob lawyer, Harry Weiss. Anyway, just some avenues for googling & this is the most I've typed or spoken in months so signing off now.
Congratulations on your book. I hv always been in awe of your writing & research abilities.

Trilby said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trilby said...

Deb, after I just posted my reply to you, I still couldn't rest until I rooted thru cabinet & got out the file that had Jameson's address.
Get ready...
IT WAS 1211 HORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And next to it I notated in parentheses '68-'69.
O-O !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DebS said...

Thanks Trilby! I'll look into it. Lots of stuff to follow up on.

Matt said...

TRILBY!!!! What a relief to hear from you...


William Weston said...

According to William Garretson, he went to Turners Drug Store to get a TV dinner, cigarettes and a Pepsi Cola. He was given a ride back to Cielo Drive by some hippies in a van. There was no Turner's Drug Store on Sunset Boulevard, but there was a Turner's Liquor Store, at the corner of Larrabee and Sunset, next door to the Viper Room shown on the map. (It is now called Terner's Liquor Store.) The hippies who gave him a ride probably included Bobby Jameson and Harvey Dareff, since they lived nearby on Horn Street.

Panamint Patty said...

Yes Trilby, we were worried. ♥️

Torque said...

Trilby,
Amazing you had some contact information on Billy Doyle. After his interview by LAPD in August of 1969, he basically disappeared, from what I can determine. I have not been able to find any photos of him, either.

Of course Doyle was close to Voytek and Abigail, and he would be an excellent source of information on them and those who moved in their orbit, like Pic Dawson, et al.