This is a post from Mark Lindsay's (Paul Revere and the Raiders) fan page. I am not the Deb in the first part of the story! All the pictures were taken at Cielo. Happy Halloween
THE HOUSE ON CIELO DRIVE – A GHOST STORY
Do I believe in ghosts? Well, if you're talking about spiritual manifestations in the physical world that remain after the body is dead and buried, the answer is yes.
In the 1990s, we were living in Maui but the bi-weekly commute to the east coast to do gigs was time-consuming and expensive, so my wife Deb and I decided on a second residence. We found a grand old (circa 1830) Federal in upstate New York.
The house had a great deal of character, and we soon found out that at least one of the earlier householders was still in residence, so to speak. On many occasions when we were in the dining room or kitchen, we would hear what sounded like footsteps coming from above us on the second story. I'd fling open the door to the second story servants' quarters and dash up the steep, winding staircase, but as soon as I got to the top landing, the sounds would cease.
Several times I saw the legs – just the legs – of a woman dressed in heavy skirts moving swiftly ahead of me up the stairs. This was quite a shock the first time I observed her, and Deb and I soon came to the realization that our new old house might be haunted, but the spirit or whatever was benign and seemed to pose no threat. And after we assured a electrician working on our renovation who had also seen her that she was friendly, we all peacefully co-existed with our “guest” until we sold the place several years later.
This experience was in stark contrast to the first haunted house where I lived for two years, in 1966 and 1967, at 10050 Cielo Drive. Yes, the place that would soon be known as the infamous "Manson Murder House."
Terry Melcher was a staff producer at CBS Records in Hollywood. His mother, Doris Day, had been a staple at CBS for years, but the new era of rock and roll was exploding and Paul Revere and the Raiders was signed to the label as its first rock act. It seemed natural that Terry, as the youngest producer and the same age as me, should be assigned to produce my group.
Terry and I soon became friends, and he told me he had just leased a house in Benedict Canyon. When he asked if I wanted to move in, share the rent, and write songs together, I jumped at the chance.
The house had a million dollar view, a pool, and peaceful, well-sculpted grounds with a rose garden. The interior at first seemed ideal. There was plenty of room with a master and guest bedroom, as well as a spacious living room with a grand piano and a loft. Across a small entry hall was the kitchen, dining room, and a maid's quarters.
But a couple of weeks after I moved in, I began to sense two areas in this idyllic setting that seemed, well, not quite right. The two bedrooms were in the back of the house and although there was a door from the master to the pool, I always took the long way to the pool, out the front door and around to the back.
The master bedroom just felt "wrong" to me somehow. Although it was much larger than my room, it always seemed cold and a little creepy. I know Terry had a hard time feeling comfortable in his room, and took sleeping pills nightly.
The other area in the house that felt weird to me was the entry hall. It always seemed several degrees colder than the main part of the house, even in the summer's heat, and no one ever lingered there.
A month or so after moving in, I learned that there was perhaps a reason for my odd feelings. Rudy Altobelli owned the property and lived in the guest house that was slightly down the hill. He dropped by one afternoon to visit with Terry and me.
After we'd had a glass or two of wine, Rudy asked if we were superstitious, and we both responded, "No." And then he proceeded to tell us the history of the house. It seemed that several Hollywood luminaries had lived there over the years, but the story of some of the early residents really got our attention.
Rudy said that one of the first couples to occupy the house had been newlyweds, and on their wedding night the bride somehow learned that the groom had cheated on her in the recent past. Supposedly after the marriage was consummated and he was asleep, the new lady of the house took a large knife from the kitchen and stabbed him to death in bed. She then put a bullet in her brain using the small "lady's pistol" that he had given her for protection as one of her wedding gifts.
Rudy told us the whole affair had been hushed up and was never talked about because it would reflect negatively on the real estate value. He said that although the femme fatale's spirit still lingered, she probably wouldn't bother two guys -- although he warned that she didn't seem to tolerate beautiful women very well. "As long as you don't let your girlfriends stay over too long, you should be okay," he warned. And then he went back to his residence, leaving us to ponder.
Over the next few months, I began to believe that Rudy was telling the truth, and that the bride was not only still with us, but quite angry, because strange things began to happen.
Except for the odd feeling in Terry's bedroom and the unexplained temperature drop in the front entry, the house seemed fairly neutral most of the time. However, unless we were writing at the piano or listening to music (which we played at ear-splitting levels), Terry and I felt most comfortable hanging out in the rose garden, which was on the opposite side of the house from the master bedroom.
More and more often, I noticed that Terry was taking downers, Valium and Tuinals, during the day and not just to sleep. The 44 magnum I usually kept in a suitcase in my closet, I now slept with under my pillow. I couldn't put my finger on it, but in the back of my mind I felt like I might need protection.
When I had moved into the house, I brought my studio sound system, including Mcintosh amps and JBL monitor speakers, which I installed in the loft. I also brought my telescope, mounted on a tripod, which we placed in the front entryway. The idea was that if we opened one of the front Dutch doors, we could then use the telescope to check out the view of Beverly Hills and the Pacific Ocean in the distance. I think we did this once, and then the scope just became a fixture in the entrance.
One day, about a month after I'd moved in, Terry and I were both seated on the piano bench, working on a tune. We were kicking some lyrics around when, all of a sudden, there was a loud crash from the vicinity of the front door. We both jumped up and found that the telescope had been knocked over.
The tripod was still open and locked in place, no one else was in the house, we had no pets at the time, and the door was shut tight. We talked about it and agreed there was no way it could have fallen over by itself, but somehow it had!
A few weeks later, when I was sound asleep, the stereo system came on at full volume in the middle of the night. I jumped out of bed and ran into the living room to tell Terry to turn it down, but no one was in the room. I shut it off and went to bed.
The next morning, Terry was upset. It seemed he had picked up one of the go-go girls at The Whiskey, and was at a "critical point in the relationship" when the stereo suddenly started blasting at full volume. I told him I thought he had turned it on, but he vehemently denied it, so we were left with another mystery.
This "stereo in the night thing" happened at least two other times that I remember, and since I was on tour about half the time, I might have missed more of the unwelcome events.
One hot summer day at the end of a series of tour dates, I returned to the house when there was a meeting going on in the living room. Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys was there, and he, Terry, and a prominent attorney were discussing some kind of deal.
So as not to interrupt, I went into the kitchen to get a cold drink. There was a guy I didn't recognize squatting on the slate floor, leaning against the refrigerator. He was dressed in a blue work shirt and jeans and did not seem too happy.
I tried to open the refrigerator door but the guy wouldn't budge. "Excuse me," I said, but he totally ignored me. I tried again. “Sorry, man, but I'm trying to get in the frig!” He didn't move or even look at me. I walked into the living room and asked, "What's with the weird guy in the kitchen?"
Dennis said, "Oh, that's just Charlie...he's okay." But he didn't seem very "okay" to me at the time.
This of course turned out to be Charlie Manson, and he was at the house on at least one other occasion. When I was driving up to the house a couple of weeks later, he was just getting into a limo, which then left. Charlie didn't look like the kind of guy who could or would hire a limousine, so I figured Terry or Dennis must have sent one for him.
When I walked into the house, the vibes were not good, so I figured that particular meeting must not have one well. Supposedly, Manson was at least at one other meeting at Cielo, but these are the only two times I saw him there. As I came and went from my trips, I would never know who I might encounter when I returned. I met Hendrix there, Mama Cass, John and Michelle, and a lot of "folkies" and blues musicians.
On one return trip, I walked into the house to discover Terry and Candice Bergen making out on the couch like a couple of teenagers. As time went on, I would find Candy there more and more often. It became obvious that this was becoming somewhat serious and I began to feel like the odd man out in my own house.
The lease was up for renewal in a couple of months, so I told Terry that I would feel more comfortable renting my own place, leaving Candy free to move in. In retrospect, this might not have been such a great idea for their relationship. As soon as I moved out and Miss Bergen moved in, she and Terry began having more and more disagreements and fights, which ultimately culminated in Candy moving out.
This left Terry alone in the house, which I don't think he liked very much. Shortly thereafter he sublet the property to Roman Polanski, and moved to his mom's beach house in Malibu.
Did the spirit who Rudy had said didn't like pretty women stir up the tension to evict Candy?
And did that same spirit inspire Susan Atkins or Tex Watson to take a large knife from the kitchen and brutally stab Sharon Tate?
I guess we'll never know for sure, but I can testify to the fact that strange, unexplained events occurred when I was living there. And at it times, I did sense an undeniable foreboding and a feeling of pervasive darkness emanating from the house at 10050 Cielo Drive.
Very interesting post DebS. I had never heard these stories before.
HAPPY HALLOWEEN 🎃
Thanks Deb...I've often wondered about the pic with Mark and Melcher. I think it the second one on this post. Is the broken fence behind the car the same one that Parent backed into? Probably not but I have yet to be convinced (even with the paint on Parent's car) he backed into the fence. I think he was just too scared when faced with vile Tex.
Yes, Monica, that's the same fence. If you go over to cielodrive.com and look through the photo archive you will see a couple of pictures of Parent's car with the fence in the background.
If the story of the murder/suicide is true, someone on this forum should have heard it before, no matter how well it was hushed up. If someone has, please tell us the source. I'm guessing it's a tale told around the campfire or in this case, the piano.
Orwhut, I cannot vouch for the veracity of Lindsay's story but it's a cool story for Halloween. I looked briefly for a story about a previous death at the Cielo Drive house but couldn't find anything.
Maybe Lindsay was attributing the controversial death of Paul Bern that happened at Jay Sebring's Easton Drive home to the Cielo Drive home???
It was a cool Halloween story and thank you for putting it up. I know of no place that people with more knowledge on all things related to the Manson murders come together than this group and half expect someone to confirm it. If they don't, it was still a cool story put up by a cool lady.
Maybe Altobelli or Lindsay (or both) were embellishing the truth a little for their audiences. But they do say no smoke without fire. And isn’t there a story about the French actress who originally had the place built funding it scary at night and eventually moving out?
But they do say no smoke without fire
'They' did say that......until they saw me light a ciggy from an electric cooker ring.
No smoke without ciggy!
When the author believes Susan or Tex took a large knife from the kitchen...
All I can say is... a couple of interesting pics.
The odd moment of Charlie 'blocking the fridge' seems like it could have inspired a Tarantino scene. CM was probably wildly envious and seething, knowing that this successful musician was tight with Melcher.
Didn't someone write that Manson or Watson was sitting in front of the fridge at Cielo and blocking Candice Bergen from getting in it?
"And did that same spirit inspire Susan Atkins or Tex Watson to take a large knife from the kitchen and brutally stab Sharon Tate? "
Mark Lindsay's full of shit.
Did anyone else see the old Candice Bergen interview where she demonstrated the French accent she developed during her jet setting days? I think it was on The Tonight Show or Letterman.
Wasn't that scene related by Mike Love? Or, Alex Chilton? Alex DID forget the milk on his grocery run...😆
Mark Lindsay says he lived at Cielo for 2 years, 1966/67. If this was the case, then there's no way Manson was in that house when Lindsay was there. Manson didn't visit there till the late summer of 1968. Conceivably, Lindsay could have lived there into 1968 and was still hanging around the place even after he moved out.
Agree with those who assess it's an interesting story but weaved with dubious materials, observations and outright falsehoods (... knives from the kitchen ... ?) . So much we'll never know even though likely most of us at one time or another felt the heebie-jeebies about a dwelling or place, an intuitive we can't explain as anything other than being very self-protective.
No great insights from here on this case other than to say Manson squatting immovable in front of the fridge .. I don't know about Mark but most average guys would have gotten pissed and physically moved him out of the way.
Mark Lindsay says he lived at Cielo for 2 years, 1966/67. If this was the case, then there's no way Manson was in that house when Lindsay was there. Manson didn't visit there till the late summer of 1968
These has-been z list minor celebs !
I find it odd that the original owner & builder of 10050 Cielo was scared of the house as well. What was it about that house that creeped people out? From photos, it looked rather comfortable & very unpretentious, but perhaps at night, it gave off a different vibe. My grandparents' house was like that. It had a very large, one story layout with a lot of hallways & rooms (not an open floor plan) with tons of windows. It was cozy and nice during the day, but when we kids would stay the night, it turned extremely scary with weird noises & shadows around every corner.
I would have to be shown evidence of the murder suicide to believe it if it happened there's got to a record of it somewhere also I've always heard Terry & Candice moved out of Cielo together After the slaughter I wouldn't doubt the place being haunted I remember when They were doing the Dearly departed Helter Skelter tour at one time they gave you a brick from the Fire place at Cielo when it was torn down I for one know I wouldn't want one in my house
There have been too many comedy segments where someone was fed a line about something outrageous that was hushed up for the murder/suicide to be believed without additional evidence.
It’s notable that most if not all of these stories came out after the murders rather than before. Although I guess that had the murders not occurred there then such stories wouldn’t have much relevance. The experiences of the original French actress owner are interesting if they’re to be believed. I think it was her housekeeper or butler whatever who published the story? But again it came out after the murders? The one weird event that definitely did happen pre-murders was Fryjowski claiming to see the pigs head in the burning fireplace at Cielo. That is weird for all sorts of reasons. I also find it a bit strange how Altobelli almost over-emphasised how safe and peaceful he found living on the property post murders. I guess he would be anxious not to undermine the real estate value of the place!
I did a little deeper search for people who died on Cielo Drive between 1940 and 1968. I did not search for 10050 specifically, simply Cielo Drive. The only death I could find was that of Gertrude Freund, wife of cinematographer Karl Freund, who died in a fire at their home at 10046 Cielo Drive Jan. 14 1967. Karl died a couple of years later, May 3 1969.
Nearly all of the mentions of Cielo Drive in the newspapers were in the real estate section of the want ads or announcements that a particular property was being built or sold. There was one exception, that of a marriage license being applied for by Gerard Marshall, 25, and Simone Roussel, 22. Roussel gave her address as 10050 Cielo Drive. The name sounds French and I imagine that she worked for Michele Morgan in some capacity.
So, either Altobelli or Lindsay were embellishing...
Candice Bergen says nothing about being afraid at the Cielo Drive home in this excerpt.
Oops, the above marriage license was applied for on Sept. 2 1942.
It's difficult to imagine Murphy Brown being afraid of anything.
The whole story sounds like bullshit to me, but any story that includes any sort of supernatural events always does.
Hi Deb S: great footwork! I believe Simone Roussel and Michele Morgan are one and the same person.
Tracy, you're right! Simone Roussel is Michele Morgan's given name. I found a bunch of records at Ancestry, mostly to do with her naturalization. She applied for naturalization in 1943 after she married Gerard William Marshall. She was granted citizenship under the name Simone Roussel Marshall, with Michele Morgan in parenthesis, in 1944. At the time she applied for naturalization her residential address was 628 N. Crescent Dr. Beverly Hills.
Then in 1953 she gave up her US citizenship and went back to being a French citizen.
Posted by LOVE'S lead guitarist Johnny Echols on his Facebook page yesterday...seems as though he's coming around a bit with his feelings about Bobby...
Interesting read... Bobby Chats briefly about the short period of time he played with us when we were the Grass Roots. My feelings on this subject have evolved over time. I know that he murdered another human being, but I think that after fifty years in prison, it's time to bring Bobby home. If his name wasn't associated with that ASSHOLE Charles Manson, he would have been released years ago.
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