Tuesday, February 1, 2022

The Goodbye Helter Skelter Podcast Episode #7


George Stimson posted a new video last week, The Murder of Donald "Shorty" Shea. Above is Donald Jerome Shea on the 1940 census with his family. First grade. Probably still smiled in school photos. The world hadn't had a ton of time to chew him up and spit him out yet. 

Good, bad, whatever. Every direction you turn in this milieu is filled with heartbreak. The bad guys are bad. The good guys are bad. Everyone is bad. 

Bruce Davis claims in a clip from a parole hearing that Tex Watson asked/told him to join in the killing of Shea. According to Davis, Bill Vance was present when Tex said this but decided not to take part in the murder. Instead, he stepped over to the canteen for the ice cream Charlie always talked about. 

You know the story. Shorty is driving. "Hey, pull over." Clem hits him with a wrench. BOOM! Tex and Clem drag dazed Shorty from the car. Charlie arrives in another car with a machete. 

Bruce "touched Shea's neck with the machete" but "couldn't do what he (Charlie) wanted me to do." Always willing to compromise, Bruce sliced Shea from his armpit to his collar bone. 

Charlie's version of events is Shorty was a big dude, a bully, and he was pushing Clem and someone else around. In a clip Stimson included from Manson's 1992 parole hearing, Stephen Kay (from his mother) has the board ask Charlie about his role in Shea's murder. Consistent in his refusal to to acknowledge California's conspiracy and aiding and abetting laws, in my opinion because of his mental illness, Charlie places himself at the scene and admits to rendering Shea immobile. 

"I'm gonna show you kids how to do this one time. And then don't invoke me to no violence anymore." 

"And uh I moved on Shorty and I put him in a situation where he couldn't move. And then I said, now can you understand what I'm saying to you? And he said yeah. And I stepped up on the highway and hitchhiked a ride and about three, four minutes later somebody stabbed him, and he was stabbed to death and he was killed." 

Inaudible from board. 

Charlie again. "Now, wait a minute. Anybody that knows anything about combat knows that when you go into a combat situation and you're on the line with something, that line can mean your life or your death. If you're on the line of life and death and you're gone and you're up on another line that other reality is a completely different reality -- it hasn't got anything to do with the other side of that line. I was on that side of the line and it was a violent situation and I did deal with it and I put it into where it was -- let me say this, there's only one way I can explain it...The Duke in the joint is a guy that can fight with his fists. The Cou..."

Board begins to interrupt. 

Manson stops them. "Wait a minute. Let me explain this. This will explain it. The Count is somebody who don't fight with his fists. He fights with his mind. He sets up on top of the count when the count is clear, he runs the radio. And the Duke does all the physical things like the first cop does his level, then the sergeant..."

"Mr. Manson..."

"I can't explain it to you, man. It don't have a yes or no."

"The question was did you kill Shorty Shea?"

"No no no. I didn't have anything..."

"You didn't personally kill Shorty Shea?"

"Not personally, no."

"Did you order him to be killed?" 

"No. It was a fight, man. It was uh..."

"Did you order him to be killed?"

"No."

-------------

I've been reviewing Charlie's medical reports the last several days. Did you know certain doctors were against moving Manson to a hospital facility for decades because they claimed Charlie was faking or exaggerating his schizophrenia? 

This was supposed to be Manson at his best and he acts bonkers. There's clearly a problem. His freedom was on the line but not really. Charlie, Kay, and the Board all knew this was a simple parading of a crazy man before a laughing public. 

Sometimes, I struggle to see how we've advanced as race beyond Hammurabi. At least we've stopped feeding delusional people to lions, tigers, and bears for sport. Our dark amusements come from mocking the insane via YouTube these days. 

Oh well. The gang did what they did and life comes with consequences even when you think you live in a different reality. Word to the wise. Don't kill someone when you're mentally ill. We'll poke sharpened sticks through the bars of your cell and delight in watching you yelp until the day you die. 

*Steps down from soapbox. 

Anyway. What'd ya think of the new Stimson? +ggw

23 comments:

G. Greene-Whyte said...

Btw, the next person who subs to George's podcast will be his 666th subscriber.

Iduhiduhiduh said...

Hehe thanks for the heads up. Subbed right away. Does anybody have info on what happened to Phil Phillips, mansons cellmate?

tobiasragg said...

Stimson's pieces are always very detailed, quite well produced, and impressively balanced in terms of the POVs shared.

In this case, there seems little reason for this episode to exist, except to recount the details of the Shea murder. A minor fuss is made over the conflicting time-of-day information that arose from testimony and parole hearings, but overall everyone tells the exact same story.

I do have to disagree with the notion that Manson & Co. had been "harassed" by various law enforcement agencies. Despite their constant claims to just wanting to be free to pursue their shared lifestyle, the Manson group caused considerable disruption to the communities around them, wherever they lived. Everyone from Dennis Wilson to the local shopkeepers in Inyo county fell victim to the "there is no wrong" mentality of Charlie and his followers. Much of this is detailed in the book "Desert Shadows", written by a local law enforcement officer in the area at the time.

Ruby Pearl visited Manson in prison once. He smiled and tried to turn on his charm as she collected herself in front of him, but Pearl cut him short. "I am not here to listen to your bullshit, Charlie" she reportedly stated. "The only reason I am here is to find out what you did with Donald's body." Manson apparently shot her a look and replied "Ask the Black Panthers" and that was that. Visitation over.

Personally, I have never given much credence to Bruce Davis' stories in those parole hearings. He grants himself the very same passive and reluctant order-follower role that Pat Krenwinkel and, in earlier years, Leslie Van Houten have adopted. "I scratched him on the shoulder and I felt terrible about it for weeks afterward," Davis claims. But evidence seems to imply a much different level of involvement and obedience to Manson. On Manson's order, Davis disappeared for months, apparently living for part of that time in a drainage pipe, and on Manson's order he made a very bizarre and quite public reappearance, clad in a blousy sateen shirt and delivering acid-fueled, grinning answers to reporter questions. The circumstantial evidence is there to suggest that Davis was responsible, primarily or in part, for the death of "Zero" and he was present at another Manson Family-related death scene. All in all, I find myself much more inclined to believe the words coming from the likes of a Hoyt or a Pearl to what Davis has to say, but of course that's just me.

Back to Stimson, I do enjoy watching his productions but I don't really see the point of it all. This is all rather ancient social history at this point and there is no real redemption ahead for the character of one Charles M. Manson. Society has moved on and this whole affair has become a mere curiosity for some, barely thought of by most.

When a YouTube series fails to attract even a thousand measly followers, that's a pretty sure sign that no one much cares and that maybe one's retirement years are better spent on other pursuits. I hear bird watching can be fun.

Dan S said...

I think the parallels with Jesus are remarkable. Maybe he's trying to create gospel

Milly James said...

Green White? Why the name change? Genuine question. Thank you.

G. Greene-Whyte said...

Well I was going to change it to Tommy Beskar but thought that might be too much.

orwhut said...

Greene,
You could have borrowed Englebert Humperdink, but I think that's been done, already.

G. Greene-Whyte said...

Same with Frankie Yankovic.

"Yoooo are my one trooo love."

G. Greene-Whyte said...

Blogger made me select all the photos with taxis to prove I'm not a robot. I missed one somehow and they made me select all the photos with crosswalks. I found all the crosswalks.

orwhut said...

I can seldom find all the friggin' pictures and give up in disgust.

starviego said...

Iduhiduhiduh said...
"Does anybody have info on what happened to Phil Phillips, mansons cellmate?"

I think he was seen up at Spahn and even at Barker, but never seen any detailed interview of him. Most odd.

orwhut said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
orwhut said...

The only place I remember seeing Phil Phillips in one of Robert Hendrickson's films. Someone in this group commented that they thought Phil Phillips wasn't his real make. If Robert acknowledged the comment, I missed it.

February 4, 2022 at 9:12 AM

G. Greene-Whyte said...

whut - I remember people saying that wasn't his real name too.

grimtraveller said...


orwhut said:

Someone in this group commented that they thought Phil Phillips wasn't his real make

His real name was Thomas A. Phillips.

starviego said:

Iduhiduhiduh said...
"Does anybody have info on what happened to Phil Phillips, mansons cellmate?"

I think he was seen up at Spahn and even at Barker, but never seen any detailed interview of him. Most odd


There's a truly enlightening 17-page interview with Phil, in Robert Hendrickson's book, "Death to pigs." In it, we learn some amazing things that are so Charlie Manson, like, he was claiming he was in jail for a $10 check; that his story is that he was innocent; that he was guy that the other cons in jail had around to make fun of; that he'd come out with something radical that would even stop hardened cons in their tracks and make one wonder; that he had a temper when he could sense he'd win; that he was great at cadging cigarettes, which were like currency in jail, and then giving them away; that he wanted to just tour the country playing guitar once he'd left jail; that he could psych out people, even cops, very effectively; that he would try to rearrange people's minds with acid {this, in 1967}; that with acid and Charlie, time did not exist; that Charlie was doing his 'get down on his knees and kiss a person's feet' routine; that he was talking about dying on the cross and having the power to give and take life; that he offered to have Phil's ex~wife killed; that he could see Charlie was in control of the people and events at Spahn and Barker; that before Tex was on the scene, he worked on Phil to join the Family because of his mechanical skills; that he felt his life was in danger out at Barker...
Phil is interesting because he actively told Charlie that he wasn't into his whole acid and killing thing and he didn't want to be part of his group ~ and he wasn't.

tobiasragg said:

I do have to disagree with the notion that Manson & Co. had been "harassed" by various law enforcement agencies

I think it was certainly true of the earlier days. For example, when there was that "Nude hippies arrested" scene, around Ventura, in 1968, they weren't doing anyone any harm. They were out of the way and it wasn't exactly in the centre of town. And Phil Phillips tells stories of police telling Charlie and his few girls to get out of their town, when they were just parked on the side of the road.

grimtraveller said...


tobiasragg said:

Back to Stimson, I do enjoy watching his productions but I don't really see the point of it all

I guess the point of it all is to keep alive the notion that Charles Manson was innocent of murder and that he was corruptly railroaded by a corrupt system in a country where there is no redress for an illiterate petty criminal.
One of the more amazing things about Charles Manson is that he is able to house people that feel this way. He did it during his trial, but that was understandable because until he was convicted, his guilt hadn't been in any way determined. As one person put it in '69, "all the prosecution has is 2 fingerprints...and Vince Bugliosi." In other words, very little. Certainly not enough to secure something as basic as a conviction.
In many ways, the likes of George, in my estimation, do Charlie far more damage than good. It's a present day demonstration that if an articulate, intelligent thinker like him {and I'd apply that to Nick Shreck, Manson Mythos/Dennis LaCalandra/D. and AC Fisher Aldag, even Irving Kanarek} can be so taken by Charles, there's really got to be something in the stories of how the Family were likewise.
George seems to me to be living history repeating itself.

orwhut said...

Thank you, Grim. I've had Death to Pigs, for years. If I ever figure out the mechanics of supporting the heavy awkward thing in a comfortable position, I might read it.
Whut

orwhut said...

G. Greene-Whyte said...
whut - I remember people saying that wasn't his real name too.

Greene,
Perhaps it was Grim who said it.

G. Greene-Whyte said...

whut - Sell that thing on eBay for $500 before someone turns it into a free pdf.

orwhut said...

I'll give that some thought,Greene.
Whut

Dan S said...

It's archived digitally in my email; some very nice person scanned the whole thing. RH is dead but i don't think he wants it leaked. And i'm very disorganized The quadruple spaced script format is lame ...and where were the zingers? Seemed kind of empty to me; i guess it's cutting room floor material from the Manson movie so what should we expect?

grimtraveller said...

orwhut said:

I've had Death to Pigs, for years. If I ever figure out the mechanics of supporting the heavy awkward thing in a comfortable position, I might read it

For me, it's one of the pre~ "Helter Skelter" books that is indispensable. It is heavy and awkward, but not really heavier than David Cameron's "For the record", Nick Awde's "Mellotron," The Beatles' "Anthology" or Jermaine Jackson's "You are not alone, Michael," and certainly not more awkward than the album cover album, "genesis - chapter and verse" or David Clayton & Todd Smith's "Heavy Load, Free."

Perhaps it was Grim who said it

No, it wasn't me. I only noticed it for the first time yesterday. Obviously I've read it, because I've had it since 2015 and looked at it a few times. But it just wasn't something that registered with me.

grimtraveller said...

Dan S said...

and where were the zingers? Seemed kind of empty to me

I guess it depends what you might be looking for or how you take on board what you found. For me, it's packed end to end with zingers.💥