One theory of the Cielo murders claims that Charlie chose that house to 'put the fear' into Terry Melcher for welching on a promised recording contract:
HS, pg315(paperback)
Much of the time at the Gresham Street house... was spent composing songs for Charlie's album. Charlie worked hard on these songs. Manson was counting on Terry Melcher to produce this album. According to numerous Family members. Terry had promised to come and listen to the songs one evening, Melcher didn't show. Manson, according to Poston and Watkins, never forgave Terry for this. "Melcher's word was no good," he said angrily on a number of occasions.
But it appears that they were far friendlier to Terry than expected if you believe in that theory.
From Charlie's interview with Rolling Stone magazine of December 5th, 2013:
www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/charles-manson-today-the-final-confessions-of-a-psychopath-20131121
"..
Melcher... apparently decided Manson wasn't a talent worth pursuing.
Although Manson himself told everyone that a recording contract was
imminent.
"Yeah, it was Terry Melcher's house, and he lied to
everybody at the ranch, said he was gonna do stuff he didn't do. He got
their hopes up, you dig? Terry was a spoiled brat that had seven
automobiles and didn't have nothing to worry about. I'd cheated him in a
card game and won a house. It was part card game, part con, all devil, heh heh. But I won it. He owed me. So, Terry Melcher
was part of it. He did a lot of things that wasn't right. But, no one
was mad at Terry Melcher, Not really. He was just in somebody's mind,
and when they went by there, it was a familiar place, and they went into
a familiar place. ..."
Feb 25, 1985 - Charles Manson was interviewed at Vacaville Prison by KALX 90.7 Berkeley Radio When
asked about Melcher, Manson said, “I like Terry. Terry’s a nice gentle
person, he’s a peaceful person, he doesn’t lie, he’s treated me right.
He’s, I would consider him a friend. But I think all this madness scared
him. I think it scared him to think that I’m somebody that I’m not."
Manson In His Own Words by Nuel Emmons, published in 1986 pg148
"Melcher was all right and I had no bad feelings for him."
Doris Day, Her Own Story by A.E. Hotchner c. 1975 pg240
..I found out at one point that Manson knew I had moved to the Malibu beach house. ... But then why didn't he knock on the door, if he wanted to get in touch with me? None of it made much sense. Susan Atkins, one of the murderers, had told her attorney on tape, "The reason Charlie picked that house was to instill fear into Terry Melcher because Terry had given us his word on a few things and never came through with them." I have no idea to what she was referring. I made no representations to them about anything.
Death to Pigs, by Robert Hendrickson, c.2011 pg303
Watkins claimed Greg Jacobson promised that Terry would be there (at Gresham) to hear their music.
Watkins: "Terry never said he would be there, Gregg said, Terry would be there."
Brooks: "Gregg pulled the same one though, a couple of times. Gregg said he'd show up, but he(Melcher) didn't."
https://murdersofaugust69.freeforums.net/thread/1287/terry-melcher-rolling-stone-1974
Tom Nolan, Rolling Stone, 9May1974
When I was finished, their lawyer, Kanarek, said something like, ‘We want Mr. Melcher to know that the defendants have never borne him any ill will.’
46 comments:
I can't remember what I had for dinner last night, and these folks are remembering exact conversations 50 years after the fact??? I love this page, but sometimes "a cigar is just a cigar".
When you remember, let me know. I like dinners.
I did not have a cigar, I know that much.
Chuck knew TM wasn't at Cielo. The Malibu house would have been scarier for him. Cielo wasn't about the occupants. It was all Location, Location, Location, like all good real estate.
Merry Holidays to all our readers.
Over fifty years ago, I thought Candice Bergen was one of the prettiest girls alive. Much later I found out she had lived in the murder house with Terry Melcher.
Over twenty years ago, I heard The Rip Chords singing Little Cobra on a speaker outside a Crusers restaurant. I bought the record and found out Terry Melcher was a member of the group.
Terry was a busy boy
Terry actually WASN'T a member of the group, but because the actual lead singer wasn't available to attend the Hey, Little Cobra session, producer Melcher sang the lead. I'm unclear on whether it was Columbia Records' or Terry's idea to do the vocal.
I had a similar problem when I thought David Crosby was a member of Buffalo Springfield.
@milly....LOL!....yeah, he wasn't, although he DID substitute for the absent Neil Young when the band played at the Monterey Pop Festival in June, 1967. And also, Dave sang backup on Rock And Roll Woman on the group's excellent second album Buffalo Springfield Again.
Perhaps, I should have said Melcher was on the record.
Merry Christmas, all!
Ah, the Custom era. Big Daddy Roth, et al.
Did any Family member ever mention celebrating Christmas, birthdays, or other Holidays? Charlie didn't allow it. Why celebrate Christmas, he would tell his followers, when you got the Christ Chlld in front of you?
Anyway Merry Christmas to all!
That explains a lot Sixties. Cheers!
Where is that story from?
Albert fish also claimed to be Jesus. And Jesus and his dad will throw you into eternal hellfire if you didn't worship him right
Location location location, I like that. That is a really good point.
As per the OP, this is a great question. Did CM know Melcher had moved? Did he know it have any idea who the current occupants were?
I think Otani gave testimony he answered the door for Manson and Manson may have even seen Sharon; but. I think I recently read here that that testimony was coached. What other evidence is there ? I have to go back to the OP and read these quotes again....
I guess that wasn't really the question by the OP. The question is related: was there a grudge against melcher? These quotes point to no;and furthermore when Charlie says "it would've scared him more if they went to the Malibu house", it more than implies that he knew they weren't at Cielo either. That interview is from 2013 and the interviewee is a con man liar
Manson was angry that Melcher wasn't trying to make him famous, that's why the house was chosen. I don't think we need corroboration now we know Charlie was diagnosed a psychopath. It didn't matter who was living there, it mattered that Terry got the message
Melcher told Rolling Stone magazine in an interview for his album that Charlie knew he moved and was not looking for him. He told Rolling Stone that Charlie had been to the Malibu home he moved to. I'll upload the interviews and post a link to it.
Melcher said that he was told at the trial that Manson had no hard feelings towards him and he learned he was lied to about Manson Looking for him.
Here is the link to the interview
https://postimg.cc/7CWdWh44
Leroy - I don’t understand why you waste your time and energy posting insults on here. Why not just find something online that interests you and leave folk here to do what interests them. Time is precious.
I’m still trying to figure out if Medium Patty is THAT Patty?
Leroy - Stoner Van Houten had been digging through Sphan and Barker ranches for years and if there was a Charlie Turd. He would have found it ( he did once give me a bullet casing in exchange for a number 69 Eagles jersey though 🤷🏻♂️)
Happy Holidays and New Year to all of you. I hope you are getting closer to having your answers. I am waiting patiently for the new follow up movie to Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I am told it’s the story of Brad Pitts character and he was best part of that movie anyway. I wonder if Charlie gets a mention in this one at all?
It seems Lulu has stayed out of trouble and every day she does makes me look more and more stupid but I still think she should have stayed where she was. However in the spirit of the Holidays I will give a small smile if she spent Xmas in front of a fire surrounded by people who care about her. Maybe by this time next year Pat can join her. I hope not though lol 😉
I hope you are all doing well 🥂🍻😎
- Your favorite Saint
Common misconception...but he did fill in once.
Happy 2026, Saint!
I think often about Lulu and her re-integration into society. If I'm not mistaken I read (if not here, elsewhere) that, after her period of communal housing, Lulu was hoping to use the degrees she acquired with a view to getting a job teaching. I do recall specifically she said, at the time of her anticipated release, she intended to completely swerve publicity and not give interviews, etc. out of respect for the friends, family and loved ones of the LaBianca family. So I'm reasoning she's pursuing her next chapter under an assumed name.
And out of respect for her wishes for the LaBianca family, I really, REALLY hope no one gifts this blog with exclusive photos of Leslie post-release. Whenever I see pics of erstwhile Family members today, I totally admit I am low-key fascinated, but for the reasons outlined, I hope no one takes the baton and gets "snappy".
Remember how John Waters befriended her and her wrote something like a 7 page think piece a few years back outlining his support regarding the matter of Leslie and how it was time she was finally released? I can't help but wonder if they are still in touch, if not actually BFF's in real life. I could actually imagine John co-ordinating a complete makeover-glow up, like an acid reality version of "The Swan". You know she would outright nix the suggestion, but I bet John would move heaven, hell and earth for Leslie to have a major role in one of his films, like he did with Patty Hearst.
Just some input from a couple of people who actually KNEW Terry Melcher:
From Bobby Jameson's blogspot:
... " I met Terry Melcher at the (Dean) Martin house, and he was dating Deana Martin, the older sister of Gina. We did not like each other. Terry considered me another run of the mill singer/song writer, and I considered him the no-talent son of Doris Day."
"He took too much credit, in my opinion, for producing Brian Wilson's work and the same with The Byrds. Brian Wilson produced The Beach Boys, and The Byrds produced The Byrds. Terry Melcher took the credit, because he could, and I let him know that's what I thought, so he was not too fond of me."
or .... more succinctly put:
"Terry Melcher couldn't produce a head of lettuce."
[David Crosby]
Leslie would have two chances at getting a teaching job IMO: slim and none. The background check would kill her chances, pardon the expression.
I don't know about how background checks work in the US, but, ironically, the one place she may be able to get a teaching job is in the prison system. It would definitely have to be for adults I would think. I did read somewhere in TLB World that she isn't short of a dollar, having had a decent trust fund accumulating nicely for a few decades now.
It has always been my understanding that most producers are mainly responsible for putting things together. Finances. Getting the right people involved and in the right places. I’m movies directors control the action and the actors make the product. In music it’s the engineers and should guys who work with the musicians. Producers get the money and make the operation possible. But then I remember two things. Phil Spector and I know nothing about the entertainment business 🤷🏻♂️ Terry Melcher is an interesting character to me because as I don’t think he had as much to do with the motive of the murders as he did the location of one of them. If Manson hadn’t met Terry there is little chance to me at all that they wound up on Cielo. Just think how long it took them to find a house the second night and they still ended up settling on an area Charlie was at previously. I don’t know if they could have found Cielo randomly. It’s a small narrow street
Back at ya Bucpaul
I think Leslie teaching in prison is a really great idea and don’t think anyone would have a problem with a life long convict who has been released working with younger convicts. I know I wouldn’t. But I’m not sure that someone who had been isolated from society for so long, as well as considering how much has changed, could be very effective with people today. I also have a mom about the same as as Leslie and I have to help her with very basic stuff. I think Lulus best bet is to take it easy, catch up on movies and TV, play with the internet. I wonder if she didn’t spend weeks or months reading about and watching videos about herself and these crimes ?
Let me add something in a second post lol
Pardon typos I’m doing this on my phone and not really editing myself because I don’t wanna lol
If Leslie has ever discovered this blog or community and had ever read anything I have written about her I hope she understands one thing. I really got her. From almost my very first post (almost 20 years ago on Cols blog when there were very few others) I said she was my favorite. She really was the most interesting to me and I became fascinated. I read almost every printed word about her I could find and probably covered most of them. I listened and read her interviews and parole hearings. Books. Biographies. Read her prison essays. I read the John Waters book mentioned above. Listened to him interviewed about her. Carlene Faith the Friends group. Kelsie hadn’t said one public thing since her incarceration that I’m not aware of at one time or another.
I will no longer debate her suitability it’s a moot point. I can’t argue she has - and almost definitely will- live a peaceful life in society now that she’s out. I’ll even give in that at this point maybe it was “Fair” to let her out. Those who supported it win and I lose 👍🍻🥂😎
But I’ll go to my grave knowing in my heart she never had the real remorse I would have expected to see from someone if they had committed a crime like that against someone I cared about. If you go back and look at her own testimony and interviews over the years - it’s just not there. I have laid this out so many times over the years in chilling detail. The first few years to her it was still all a joke ( go read Imafibbon) she was smiling for TV interviews explaining the matrix and predicting she would be out in 7 years. Then that didn’t hsppen and the next period of time was conjugal visits and dating a guy who may or may not have been trying to get her out. Even if he wasn’t she wasn’t really thinking about her future as much as her current gratification. After that it became rallying the troops. The Friends groups and celebrity pleas. After that came the anger and unfairness arguments. The lawsuits. Her victim statement got shorter. In some hearings she stopped talking at all. Not out of care for the victims but out of strategy for herself. Until she finally got what she wanted. Their was never any time period of simple acceptance and understanding of her actions. Every word and plan was pretty clearly self interest. Leslie’s entire argument for her entitlement to freedom was selfish. I’m sure she has thought about the Labiancas from time to time. I don’t think you can participate in something like that and block it out of your head completely and forever. I also think with all my heart that in her heart she sits around today feeling just as bad-if not more- for herself and everything she sees now that she missed out on all these years- as she does for anyone in the Labianca family and what they missed out on. I just will always feel that was based on what I have heard and read.
But to each their own lol. My new Year resolution is the be a kinder more gentle person 😉 As far as rehabilitation she gets an A. As far as gaining insight and showing significant remorse and taking responsibility - she failed to me. Lucky for Lulu it wasn’t up to me. I actually believe Pat did a much better job in that area… by this time it really doesn’t matter. Let them all out. It’s over. Their lives have passed them by. Let their family and friends pay for them to close it out. I don’t want to. It might teach them a better lesson at this point to let them see all that’s out here they missed now that they are too old to
Really enjoy or experience it. I happened to catch a few minutes of Shawshank Redemption a few weeks ago. Whatchimg the old guy hang himself because he couldn’t adjust really made me think about this. I wonder sometimes if being out isn’t harder sometimes on Leslie than staying in would have been?
I guess not, but I don’t know🤷🏻♂️
I feel the same about Leslie. The other women went those two nights because you don't say no to Charlie. Leslie volunteered to go. That is a huge difference in my mind. Ella Jo and Pat blew the family when the murders started, Leslie wanted to be included.
I think Leslie was more attractive and more articulate than Pat, and so she was able to pull more people over to her side. But at this point, if one gets paroled they should both get paroled.
St. C- Haha, I am not Big Patty or Little Patty, just Medium Patty :)
Medium Patty,
Aren't you the former Panamint Patty who's been around all of these years?
No, and I wish she comes back to commenting on this blog. We have different views but I enjoy reading her opinions regardless
lol. Ok. That was what I was wondering too. Well, I’m sure you are a fine Patty and have very Interesting things to say too. It’s nice to - kinda- meet you ☺️
Thanks for clearing that up orwhut🍻
Medium Patty,
Thanks for clearing that up. I've thought you were Panamint Patty since your comments came to my attention.
Am I correct in thinking it was not you who sold her Manson related books and left the group?
Thanks again to the late Mr Crosby for his presence.
Wasn't she the one who referred to herself in the third person?
While we're sorting people, are David, David the moderator, David the attorney, and Dreath all the same person? These names have confused me for years.
Dreath and Dave the lawyer are for sure. I’m not sure if he was a moderator. He may have been.
All the same guy.
Thank you Matt and Saint. There's another mystery solved.
👍
The first time I ever met Patty in person was very confusing lol. There was an original moderator on this site whose screenname was the same as Pattys real name. I spent the first two days not sure who I was hanging out with lol. Finally I got the nerve to ask her to clear it up 😊
"Thank you Matt and Saint. There's another mystery solved."
But, you know, there's still thepossibility that Matt might be PanamintPatty....
...food for thought.
;^)
Having been with both in same room at same time lol. I can verify they are not 🍻
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