The same day that Chief John Knox filed his report on the Manson Family Sergeant William Gleason filed his own report. While there is much the same information in the Gleason report as the Knox report there are also some little nuggets that bear discussion.
Taking both reports into consideration I have a hard time believing that there were one or more government placed informants. It seems to me that there were enough young female runaways who were more than willing to speak to the police after their stay at Spahn Ranch. These girls stayed just a few days or sometimes a few weeks but were savvy enough to get the hell out of there and back to their parents. I'm sure their moms and dads never looked so good after getting a taste of communal living.
The girls apparently told their parents all about Spahn Ranch and Charlie Manson and in turn the parents went to the authorities to report the situation. Contrary to Manson's edict that the kids at the ranch were throw-aways whose parents didn't care about them, these parents had filed missing persons reports and actively looked for their kids. One mother went so far, in the Knox report, to personally confront Charles Manson at Spahn.
If you consider the information given by the girls, and confirmed by police after their own investigations, and the number of times that law enforcement was called to Spahn in the spring and summer of 1969 it's no wonder that they were well aware of the activities taking place. You can tell by the dialogue in the report that the teenaged girls were considered informants. There was no reason to embed an informant at Spahn Ranch.
During the spring and summer of 1969 authorities had arrested 16 people from the Family in the Bread Truck Bust, arrested Manson for the assault on Danny DeCarlo's wife, arrested Manson for the rape of a 17-year-old girl, arrested Steve Grogan for the indecent exposure charge, questioned the ranch residents about the murder of Mark Walts and periodically looked for runaways at the ranch.
That's not counting the investigation of the car theft ring that had information coming into them from numerous businesses in the area. The neighbors around Spahn Ranch also contributed to the intel gathered by law enforcement.
There is more than enough documentation about all of these events that casts doubt that there were any covert operations by the CIA or any other government agency. The Family members, by their actions and deeds, essentially informed on themselves.
Also, in this report you will read about the large sums of cash that Manson used to buy dune buggies and parts. A report that Sadie was cashing $3,000.00 checks at a local bank. If true, this was likely checks that Juanita Wildebush would have received from back east. As a point of reference, $3,000.00 in 1969 translates to $24,218.75 in today's dollars. Great! The Family members were eating out of dumpsters and dressing from a communal pile of clothes but, by golly, Manson had the cash to buy dune buggies.
This report again mentions a Venice Riot where a Negro had his ear bitten by a Caucasian male. Funny that when I went to look this up, the newspapers referred to the riot as a Love-In. There is really no indication that any Family members or Black Panthers attended this Love-In/Riot but since there were 7,000 in attendance it can't be ruled out. Lots of arrests though.
Before I forget, a small thing. If you look on page four of the report, third paragraph from the bottom, Gleason writes, "The subject was told by Manson that once she joined the "Family" at the ranch she couldn't leave the ranch." Huh? I thought Manson insisted that they never referred to themselves as the Family, that was a label laid on them by the press or something.
It's so nice to see real actual research the first time it comes thru and not on some pathetic grifter's site for $11/mo. Thank you for coming back to the blog, Deb. You are truly on top of this game. Gleason looks a little like my idol George Jones. Maybe just the hair and glasses.
I saw this post in our queue and couldn't wait for you to post it, Deb. I love your argument that the informants are the runaways. Your evidence from this most recent haul definitely supports it.
Yeah, Deb. Your posts are fantastic. Thanks as always.
Deb, yes thanks for this post. I very much appreciate your solid reasoning here.
Another excellent post Deb! And, I am excited for what's coming ahead too. The goodies that you're finding within this latest haul of info/docs has me excited in advance of your posts and, anxiously awaiting your posts to go public!!
GGW - is the technology available for us to use blog modification software yet?
Do you have a link to the Gleason report you are referencing?
Crap! Thanks for telling me Starviego. I can't believe I forgot to put in the link. It's fixed now.
The girl left Spahn at about the same time as Lutesinger (and Bailey, Vance, Baker). Any strong evidence that its not Kitty?
The girl left Spahn at about the same time as Lutesinger (and Bailey, Vance, Baker). Any strong evidence that its not Kitty
If you go back and reread the Knox report, he names the juvenile girls and none of them were named Kitty or any of the aliases used by the Family. There are other interviews of Kitty and she did tell law enforcement quite a bit about what was happening at Spahn Ranch. Ultimately, she went back though and was arrested at Barker Ranch.
The DDA that drew up the Spahn warrant for Gleason was a guy named Bob Schirn. I asked him about the informant years back and he said it was "several runaways" that gave them what they needed to get the warrant
That's cool confirmation from Cielo. Wow.
Very cool. And, lines up perfectly with these reports and, as Deb ascertained!
Wasn't there a suitcase filled with q check writing machine, blank checks from Spahn and an Oregon plumbing company, and check washing tools.
You have a good memory, Peter. Yes, it's here-
I thought Manson insisted that they never referred to themselves as the Family, that was a label laid on them by the press or something.
Well you know Charlie never lied neither.[/sarcasm]
Actually there are many examples of them calling themselves a 'Family.' But if there was a Family, who was Daddy? Obviously in this case Daddy didn't want to take any responsibility--just like every other deadbeat dad.
A runaway uses the term "family". They go, interview Al Springer, throw their file on the table, asks them questions based on reports like this. Then the question, "what do they call themselves" A: "The Family".
Same thing with Brooks Poston, "calling" something "Helter Skelter" didn't mean that was a grandiose name of something. It was a descriptive term, not a name.
That is another thing people do not know. Cops don't sit you down and tell you to shoot. They let you know what they want, who they want.
They were pulling that sort of shit. Saying to the girls, "you know this great guy Charlie did time in prison for_____".
But the reports make it loud and clear where they were getting information from. This bullshit about informants is overblow. Even if a person gave them info for a split second, they might use the word "informant".
A lot of what they were learning was coming right out Charlie's mouth to them.
Almost, emphasis has been put on the fact there was no "Manson Family". That is a total media creative. A family, the family as a descriptive term. But in the first press conference in early December, they said they called themselves "THE Family".
Cielodrive said: "The DDA that drew up the Spahn warrant for Gleason was a guy named Bob Schirn. I asked him about the informant years back and he said it was "several runaways" that gave them what they needed to get the warrant"
This and Deb's post(s)/conclusion (great post, Deb) kinda puts the kibosh on the whole planted FBI/NSA/CIA informant thing. And frankly it makes complete sense, especially with parents pushing. Imagine (join those of us who raised a daughter for the moment) your 14-15-16 year old daughter going off to La La Spahnland with a thirty something goof who calls himself the Wizard or Jesus or worse, yet, the Devil.
I'd have done more than 'confront' him.
Great Post Deb. So nice to have you back where you belong. HELLO Deb S...musical cue.
David- I just want to get this straight. Tom O'Neill is a full of shit idiot is that your point of view then? Just a liar and a garbage person? I am shocked I tell you!
It was a descriptive term, not a name
Yes, it's a descriptive term. But it is also what they referred to themselves as. Many people do that. Throughout my life, my relatives would refer to 'the Family' when talking about themselves and those within the family. And it was always understood who specific people were referring to. My wife's family does the same. Almost all of my friends have done the same ever since I've been alive. And so when referring to Charlie's group, to distinguish them from any other group, 'the Family' or 'the Manson Family' were/are applicable terms. The reality is that they were a distinct group. They referred to themselves as a family because that's how they saw themselves. And those not of their number, when referring to them, referred to them as 'the Family'. It was not a media creation, but simple, human terminology to distinguish them because they were a group unto themselves.
Same thing with Brooks Poston, "calling" something "Helter Skelter" didn't mean that was a grandiose name of something. It was a descriptive term, not a namehttps://assets.grammarly.com/emoji/v1/1f3af.svg
Again, potato, potarto.
It was both. It is both a descriptive term of general chaos and confusion, but it also referred to the distinct set of events that made up Charlie's vision/prophecy. It is as applicable as "world war II" is to the events occurring from 1939 to 1945.
Col. Scott said: " I am shocked I tell you!"
"Your winnings, sir."
There is so much wrong with Chaos I wouldn't know where to begin.
It is sadly amusing to watch Tom on Instagram trying very hard to start his own M-Anon faction among idiots on social media. He's trying hard to be Steve Hodel, only without the Daddy issues.
If you cannot process information correctly DO NOT WRITE A BOOK
Much as this old gal/hag hates to agree with David (the attorney who puts us all to sleep and has done zippo w/ his life as far as original research and reporting goes except the oh so sleepy I-was-a-lawyer opining) and Porky Pig, we mean, Donnie spittle-drench-my-face-in-his-salavia-when-bloviating-which-is-ferever-Lady Murphy (who hid behind a fake name and some really shitty movies for so long, um, well, yeah, forever) Vera agrees that ONeills book broke no new ground whatsoever and needs to be consecrated to the dust bin of shitty trash history, even more so than the Buggie-boo's. But she does get juicy in her watoosi about Tommy O's Instaposts cuz they're actually a million times funner than My-Pillow-Murphy's "movies" or David's EXTREMY snore fests, so fak ya selves losahs and then eat this gal's gash for realz, cuz Vera needs some dry cleaning down there.
Seems that Vera's been hanging out with the fake Straight Satan over at Allegra's laugh a second YouTube channel...
I'm not sure I understand your comment. Perhaps you should write after less gin.
I wish you the best.
Vera - just in case you're too loaded to think properly, I'll make it easy for you
Approx 59 seconds into the fake Straight Satan's spiel
Vera Dreiser said:
Much as this old gal/hag hates to agree with David..and Donnie.. Murphy, Vera agrees that ONeills book broke no new ground whatsoever and needs to be consecrated to the dust bin of shitty trash history
Unless I'm mistaken, that sounds very much like a retraction.
Dearest Vera, what has made you change your mind about Uncle Tom's book.....again ?
This one's for you Vera!
Here's another blues for Vera
Imagine being Vera. Now call the suicide hotline.
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