The Several Searching Scholars Ride Again!

And arrive too late as usual...

Welcome to another installment of Deemer-ing with Bunt, Doug, and Montana.

Lately, we're trying to find someone from the Ranch crew who will verify the child trafficking claims levied by Cielo relatives against Patricia Krenwinkel during recent parole hearings. Saturday, Buntline popped up in our Ham Radio chat (Come in, Guam!) with hot info wrapped in a cautionary tale about believing everything you read on the Internet.

"Here's a Deemer's list guy."

CARR, Robert John    

12-18-38    

M/W      

Mass./El Monte/ Canoga Park

Nickname: B.C.

FIR at Spahn Ranch.

Stephanie Schram was asked about B.C. Link via the Almighty. 

from charlesmanson.com 

"Officer Butler has also received information that a person known only as 'B.C.' is working on the various dune buggies at the Spahn Ranch. 'B.C.' reportedly works at a Volkswagen Agency in Simi, and he is paid large sums of money by Charles Manson to work on the dune buggies. 'B.C.' reportedly is the person who installed the 1969 Volkswagen engine and transmission out of the stolen Volkswagen into the dune buggy owned by Manson."

Butler owned Butler's Buggy Shop and was a victim of Manson Family auto thefts. Odd that he knew Carr only as B.C. while Deemer apparently had the full story. Think they ever got around to comparing notes? 

Anyway. We think B.C. is dead. We found him and his son trapped for Internet eternity in a brain shattering loop of exposing Jewish conspiracies online, stopping the government from trafficking minors in space, Sovereign Citizenship, and deadly viruses none of them believed were real. The covid thing possibly killed B.C.'s son. The jury is still out on B.C. 

B.C. put his Senior Citizen Identification Card on his Facebook. He hasn't been there since 2019. The card remains valid through this fall. 

Here's B.C.'s Facebook page. Notice his employment at Volkswagen. What's in that one photo you say? Why, his willy of course. 

Bunt wanted me to mention this photo was taken postcoital. Our man B.C. was likely all drippy and whatnot. Shrinky. 

News that matters. Greenwhite with the hard facts. The Manson Blog is the only resource you will ever need. Btw, the lady who took the photo and informed the Internet of the snapshot's timing also accused B.C. of stealing her trailer home. Love hurts sometimes.  

Bunt's comments with the photo: 

"I had to delve deep into the B.C. family rabbit hole for this photo. Except there weren't any rabbits. Just racism, anti-Semitism, and insanity.  

Also, it wasn't a rabbit hole, it was a dumpster, and the dumpster was on fire.

Enjoy!"

Thanks, we sure did. But Mrs. B.C. absolutely steals the show. She's still out there posting fire memes and political hot takes, and you know we're all goodly and honest, so we'll keep that lil gem to ourselves like we keep so many other lil gems to ourselves. 

Empathy. The Several Searching Scholars' way. 

More from Bunt: 

"They lived in the sort of trailer park where neighbors with soiled pants come around asking for food. Imagine like a cross between the Addams Family, Deliverance and The Hills Have Eyes.

She's got a British flag on her trailer because she is actually Queen Elizabeth II while also being FDR's daughter. Also, most things appear to be the fault of the Jews. 

I seen things man. I seen things you can't imagine." 

Mrs. B.C. seriously believes she's the Queen of England somehow. And also knows everyone famous as all free women of the land are want to do. Oh, and this:

Two freakin likes. Facebook is a lonely place sometimes. 

We return to our searchings...

El Donkalito Goes Luau

You know the rule of Manson research that says whatever you think you discovered was actually discovered decades ago and has been discussed to death by people who know more than you might ever aspire to knowing? 

If you're unfamiliar with that rule and dropping hot takes online from sentences you pull from documents you also find online, go read that first sentence again and let it settle upon your brain. And please accept a bit of advice from a survivor if you're receptive. Any combination of hubris, newness, and not understanding what Googling for confirmation bias is may result in your fellow residents of the yellow submarine practicing their apoplexy upon you in extremely public ways. 

It's called being greenwhite'd. 

The joke is on them. I'm stronger and taller than mountains after emerging from the forge of insults, go aways, and I'm not sure if I like this's. Look down at my hands while I type, Thomas. I'm made of f'ing bronze. 

Oh! Same goes for repeating company lines outside of your assigned echo chamber. Don't do it. They will gobble you up with their razor teeth. Even your hair and biggest bones. 

Having said all of that, please indulge us one more time as we attempt to fill in the pieces of the Danny DeCarlo backstory. I'm not satisfied Danny was not the driver on the trip to Hinman's, and often wonder what else he was up to in those days. Bugliosi, Sanders, Ivor, the media, all those people had me believing Danny showed up with a biker gang out of the clear blue. Maybe he did. But Danny was also a local kid, and I always try to understand how the human puzzle fits together. 

We had some missing years for Danny. Equus Asinus. Hawaii should've been our first guess since that's where all hoodlums who sleep on the dirty ground with teenagers eventually end up. Screw college and following the rules amirite? 

Jealousy sometimes consumes me. I apologize. 

Like I mentioned, Danny had a few missing years. But then Deb said, "Dude, he lived in Hawaii," and included her research. Danny's mom had a crib in tiny Pahoa. I was like omg I'm about to discover there's more to the Hamburger Caper. Danny was in on it! 

My enshrinement into the Hall of Gurus was assured. I danced and exalted until I noticed, okay until Bunt pointed out, that Danny was in Hawaii years later. Immediately, my dreams exploded like the air from my bicycle inner tube after I rode across broken malt liquor bottles trying to get a better photo of a cartoon penis someone painted on a green dumpster.   

Pahoa Wikipedia page. Lava flows destroyed homes in 2014 and 2018. 

Danny's mother also owned an Italian restaurant in town. Ring ring, "Yeah, hi. Lemme get a chicken parm and a meatball sub, please. And a side of extra sauce. Pickup, please." 

A few addresses:

A building permit:

And that's it. This one went pretty much nowhere but hopefully fills in a bit more of the timeline so many of us are working on. Either way, thanks for reading me today and stopping by the place where scholars gather. You are a cut above. 

beep

beep

ride

in a green & white

jeep. xo

Charlie on the 1950 US Census

Caged at sixteen years old. Because I'm all bleeding heart and dumbly, I find myself wishing I could fire up the dune buggy time machine and morph into some 1950 Karlene Faith therapist dude and say, "Yo, Chuck. You gotta chill." But I'm not sure Charlie would listen. I surely did not listen to adults at sixteen. 

When I was sixteen, I loved a girl named Kira. She played bass, was more than a decade older, and married someone way more famous than me. So great was my pain I placed a curse upon their marriage. The curse eventually worked but Kira never came my way. 

By then, I loved a surfer named Janet anyway. But Janet never received my mind messages through the tv and was therefore also lost to me. 

I have one more post for the weekend unless some of the actual blog writers appear ready to go before then. One small issue with my upcoming post is I've temporarily misplaced all of the research. So there's that. 

I love you even if you don't love me. +ggw ohio. 

Manson Family High Schools Master List - Community Request Post

 
Happy Mother's Day to all the moms out there! 

Shoe's recent work motivated me to attempt to group the folks from the Manson arrests together and look for patterns and commonalities within the created groups. I've wondered if Paul Watkins was fibbing about Charles Manson sending him back to high school to procure young loves ever since I read Watkins' book on the Col's site during the halcyon days of my early Manson research. Let's start there.  

Hey, man,” Charlie said after a long silence. “Speaking of young love, how about you hustling some new blood? You know, maybe enroll in that high school. I see some fine-looking girls walking to school in the morning. Can you dig that?”

“Sure, why not… maybe I can get my diploma!”

Charlie chuckled. “Yeah… get educated… study the mystery of history, and the ramis-jamis… and in the meantime, we’ll call it the in-between time. Then, on the other hand, of course, you have a ring.” Charlie looked down at his left hand, the middle finger of which sported a turquoise ring. “Now,” he went on, “take the toad’s toenail… pretty ain’t it – bleep, bleep – ride in a jeep.”

And then..

It was two o’clock by the time we got back to the house. I had Stephanie draw me a bath, then I changed clothes and drove the BSA bike I’d just acquired down to Birmingham High to enroll.

The wrap up...

By then my stint as a student at Birmingham High had come to an end. After two weeks of classes, I’d gotten bored, but not before luring several attractive girls to Gresham Street to get loaded and make love. While none of these girls ever joined the Family, my success pleased Charlie.

“Motherfucker! Those little gals love your ass!”

* I don't necessarily believe Lil Paul remembered conversations word for word. Or even at all. 

When I wrote about Patricia Krenwinkel a couple of months back, we touched on today's cultural focus on stopping the sex trafficking of minors and discussed how our modern opinions influence parole hearings for crimes that took place over half a century ago.  

If I could somehow disengage from my generalized misanthropy, inability to suffer fools, germs thing, unwillingness to engage in or witness human contact, love of central air, dislike of discomfort and inconvenience, aversion to desert dumpsters, sleeping on the ground, viruses, and (of course) the murders, I can totally see myself enjoying machine guns, dune buggy races, and nonstop Tommy Chong-sized 1969 joints beside a campfire while assuring Mary Brunner that Wisconsin football will always take a back seat to the mighty Buckeyes. 

EJB could fill us in on the teams in the MAC. I'd say, "Yeller, put yer glasses on. That rule really ain't a rule. And your conference is junior varsity." But only if Bill wasn't around. I do my best to avoid fights with boxing champions. 

I'd wager Charlie was skilled at thumping bigger dudes. If the no eyeglasses rule really was a rule, maybe I could bribe the boss with a crow or some other desert animal I summoned via my magical powers and a triangle I stole from the Chatsworth High band room. How am I supposed to read my books without my spectacles, Charlie? 

Picture me rollin. Tokyo drifting across that hot sand with Brenda McCann in a bikini top beside me in the passenger seat. She's a minor. I'm a minor. We're all freakin minors with dune buggies and it's so hot outside. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you as always for tuning in to your forever honest journalist, Goodness Gracias Greene-Whyte, reporting from out back behind old George's movie ranch.  

Before I go ranking my favorite Manson girls and choosing a mattress that smells like cat urine, I have to know if anyone was exploiting minors. If yes, I want to know how that particular machine worked. Where did the minors come from and who reeled them in? 

If I turn to the Internet for answers, it's super easy to find someone saying, "Oh, they were a cult yackity yackity and all day was spent recruiting." That gem is uttered to death. 

Searching to verify, I'll sometimes ask others to ask this or that person from the family if they were part of a cult and spent all day recruiting. Without fail, the people always come back repeating things like, "No way. We met up in the morning for chores and then broke off into groups or alone to do whatever we wanted all day." 

But if I return here with that info and present a front row view from 1969, multiple views from front row 1969 even, some readers will scoff. "Whatever. They're a pack of g-damn liars who should burn in Hell." 

Oh, how the venom drips. Who am I left to believe? Someone who lived it, or someone on the Internet who acts like they know things? 

Rhetorical. The answer is obviously the Internet. Here's a short list of things I think we can believe without a ton of debate: 

- We have public records proving Charlie was a pimp in his younger days 

- Lynette Fromme mentions herself, Katie, and Brenda turning tricks out of Pete DiLeo's house 

- Prostitution has been with us longer than written language  

Let's take that list, the Manson mugs, sundry others caught with the Slippies, and build a shrine upon Mt. Data. I want to make a spreadsheet of their high schools and see if any rhyme or reason pivots out. 

See what I did there? I know. Writer jokes are corny but they're all I have. 

On with the show. I'm posting the mugs again below so no one has to scroll. Let's add as we go. Again, please feel free to correct. The people who steal this work and present it without credit to their cliques will appreciate you but not like I do. My love is real. 

Buntline got us started and I added what I know. Homie is en fuego. 

1. Charles Manson - No HS 

2. Bobby Beausoleil - Santa Barbara HS - CA

3. Danny DeCarlo - Crenshaw HS?- CA 

4. Clem Grogan - Simi Valley HS - CA

5. Sandra Good - Point Loma HS - San Diego, CA 

8. Susan Atkins - Leigh HS - San Jose, CA

8. Susan Atkins - Los Banos HS - CA 

11. Leslie Van Houten - Monrovia HS - CA

12. Sherri Cooper - Royal HS - Simi Valley, CA

13. Stephanie Rowe - University HS - Los Angeles, CA

14. Ella Jo Bailey - Holland HS - Holland, MI

15. Mary Brunner - Regis HS? - Eau Claire, WI 

16. Patricia Krenwinkel - Westchester HS -  CA

18. Catherine Share - Hollywood HS - CA

22. Harold True - Birmingham HS - Van Nuys, CA

23. Tex Watson - Farmersville HS - Farmersville, TX

27. Sue Bartell - Canoga Park HS - CA

29. Vern Plumlee - Washington HS - Portland, OR

31. Karate Dave - San Pedro HS - CA

32. Colleen Sinclair - Lutheran HS - Los Angeles, CA

33. Stephanie Schram - Grossmont HS - CA

34. Nancy Pittman - Hollywood HS -  CA

35. Dianne Lake - Big Pine HS - CA 

36. Kitty Lutesinger - Granada Hills HS - CA

38. Allen Lee Delisle - Granada Hills HS - CA

39. Catherine Gillies - Sanger HS - CA

40. Charlie Giffin - Simi Valley HS - CA

41. Bruce Davis - Roan County HS - TN 

42. Lynette Fromme - Redondo Union HS - CA

42. Lynette Fromme - Westchester HS - CA

44. Ruth Ann Moorehouse - Westmont HS - CA

45. "Madeline Cottage" - Freedom Area HS - PA

48. Linda Kasabian - Milford High School - NH

49. Diane Von Ahn - Washington HS - Portland, OR 

50. Barbara Hoyt - William H Taft HS - Woodland Hills, CA

53. Paul Watkins -  Thousand Oaks HS - CA

56. Ruth Gordon - Chatsworth HS - CA

58. Robert Earl Murray -  Pittsford Central HS - Pittsford, NY

59. Thomas Galella - Simi Valley HS - CA

----------------

Not shown in Mugshots but on Deemer's list or elsewhere:  

AL-Louis Covell - Woodrow Wilson HS - Long Beach, CA

Jennifer Gentry - Santa Monica HS - CA

Sharon Rayfield - George Porter MS - CA

Linda Rose Hovsepian - Leuzinger HS - Lawndale, CA

Chuck Lovett - Birmingham HS - Van Nuys, CA

Brooks Poston - Weslaco HS - TX

Kevin Schooler Raph - Chatsworth HS - CA

Onjya Sipe (JoAnn Myers) - Downey Union - CA 

Juanita Wildebush - Westwood HS - New Jersey 

----------------

* At a glance, several kids went to Simi Valley High. The most major figure from the family who attended Simi Valley is Steve Grogan. 

** I believe Lynette Fromme also attended Westchester HS but not at the same time as Pat. 

----------------

Music: 

MC5 - High School 

MC5 - American Ruse (The host announces Anne Murray as the following act at the end.) 

Manson Community message. 

We Solved for X!

Don't worry. We're not gonna bust you out to the world, Mr. X. 

You gave us stuff none of the gurus ever discovered in their "research." Your contribution is noted and appreciated. Same for you, Allegra. 

You probably said too much and they might find you like we did but your secret is safe with us. High five, dude. Keep that beat going. 

Manson Estate Battle Update

I'd love to see Jason Freeman play a lawyer. Who needs all that college anyway? 

-------------

LOS ANGELES - A probate court judge Tuesday took under submission a Florida man's assertion that he is the grandson of mass murderer Charles Manson, a claim being challenged by a former Manson pen pal as well as Manson's professed sister, who are also vying to administer the late cult leader's estate.

During Tuesday's virtual hearing, Los Angeles Superior Court Ruben Garcia said he will decide by May 20 whether 45-year-old Jason Freeman of Bradenton, Florida, is indeed the son of Manson's late son, Charles Manson Jr., who was also named Charles Jay White and who committed suicide in June 1993.

Alan Davis, an attorney for Dale Kiken — a lawyer and current temporary special administrator of the Manson estate who is advocating for Freeman's kinship claim — said that two court events conclusively establish Freeman's claim to be Manson's grandson.

In February 1986, an Ohio judge found that Freeman was the son of Charles Manson Jr., who was ordered to pay child support payments to Freeman's mother, said Davis, who added that proof of Manson Jr.'s payments to the woman have been documented.

In addition, in March 2018, a Kern County commissioner ruled that Freeman was entitled to Manson's remains and that order also established that Freeman was Manson's grandson, according to Davis.

Freeman also addressed the court during the hearing, saying he was a freshman in high school when his father died and the only reason he could continue playing high school sports was because of the child support payments his mother received of more than $600 a month.

Davis said the Ohio order remained unchallenged for decades until the current challenges by former Manson pen pal Michael Channels and by Nancy Claassen of Spokane, Washington, who alleges in her court papers that she and Manson had the same mother and that she therefore is his "sole heir-at-law."

"All of a sudden we're dealing with an estate and we have all these people coming out of the woodwork," Davis said.

But attorney Timothy Lyons, on behalf of Channels, said Judge Clifford Klein, who previously presided over the case and has since retired, gave no weight to the Ohio court decision. Lawyer Dilair Nafoosi, on behalf of Claassen, said the Ohio ruling dealt with child support and not whether Freeman was a Manson heir.

Klein signed an order in 2019 directing Freeman to take a DNA test, but his ruling was reversed by a three-justice panel of the 2nd District Court of Appeal in 2021. Freeman once told Klein that he would not voluntarily agree to DNA testing, but would obey a court order to do so.

Channels had asked for the DNA test of Freeman. In his court papers, Channels said Manson's 2002 will, filed in Kern County in November 2017, named him as the executor of Manson's estate.

Freeman, acting as his own attorney, has filed court papers stating that probate of the will should be denied because it was created "as a direct result of undue influence exercised by (Channels) over (Manson) and is not, and never was, the will of (Manson)."

Manson suffered from heart disease and other ailments before he died in 2017.

"Because of his weakened condition, (Channels) ... gained his confidence and easily influenced (Manson) to leave all of his estate to (Channels)," Freeman's court papers state.

Manson and members of his outcast "family" of followers were convicted of killing actress Sharon Tate — who was eight months pregnant — and six other people during a bloody rampage in the Los Angeles area in August 1969.

Prosecutors said Manson and his followers were trying to incite a race war he dubbed "Helter Skelter," taken from the Beatles song of the same name.

The Manson clan also stabbed to death grocery magnate Leno La Bianca and his wife Rosemary La Bianca the night after the Tate murders.

Manson was convicted of seven counts of first-degree murder and one count of conspiracy to commit murder in the deaths of Tate, the La Biancas, and four other people at the Tate residence — coffee heiress Abigail Ann Folger, photographer Wojciech Frykowski, hairdresser Jay Sebring and Steven Earl Parent, who was shot in his car on his way to visit an acquaintance who lived in a separate rented guest house on the Tate property.

Manson and followers Charles "Tex" Watson, Leslie Van Houten, Patricia Krenwinkel and the late Susan Atkins all were convicted and sentenced to state prisons in 1971. Manson also was convicted in December of that year of first-degree murder for the July 25, 1969, death of Gary Hinman and the August 1969 death of Donald Shea.

He and the others originally were sentenced to death, but a 1972 state Supreme Court decision caused all capital sentences in California to be commuted to life in prison. There was no life-without-parole sentence at the time.

Manson was denied parole a dozen times.

Tawna...

 Come join us here and write on the Manson Blog. 

Carol Loveless from the Manson Mugshots

Carol is #55 down below. She's located between Jack and Ruth Gordon. The photo is from the same yearbook and Barbara and Keith Carradine. You in there too, X? 

As is often the case, Buntline found Carol's photo for us. Does anyone know when she was arrested? 

Master List of Cielo Anomalies

This is the master list of anomalies concerning discrepancies between physical evidence and the more-or-less official narrative.

Thanks for your suggested additions.

Major Anomalies

The items on this list are fundamental to the events and to the sequence described in the official narrative, but they directly contradict the narrative.

1) Blood evidence at the doorway/porch.

This is at odds with all testimony. 

2) Towel on Sebring's head.

At odds with all testimony.

3) Stab wounds on Tate's back.

No version of the narrative unambiguously describes a situation in which she was attacked from behind.

Minor Anomalies

The items on this list raise questions about variations from the official narrative, but are not in themselves contradictory.

1) Broken guard rail.

Explained as being done by Parent, but without much detail.

2) Marks on Tate's face.

Watson has mentioned at least twice that he inflicted cuts on Tate's face as the first wounds; the Noguchi autopsy report and testimony say they are rope burns.

3) Knife found at the scene with no blood evidence.

The knife found in the chair had no blood on it, but appeared to be coated with some unidentified substance.

4) Moving or rearranging some of the bodies.

Initial investigators state that they believed that Tate's body had been in some sense handled or moved.

5) Glasses near the trunks.

Unexplained in the official narrative.

6) Blood trail on the trunks.

On close inspection the blood trails on the trunks appear to have been made while the trunks were in a different position than in which they were found.

7) Purple scarf found near Frykowski. 

There was a  purple scarf found on the front lawn near Frykowski. This scarf had Sebring's blood type on it.

8) Purple ribbons found on front door handle (or inside house).

This will take some digging. I've read about it in the 1st progress report, I think, but not much elsewhere. Blood type is identified simply as "O", no subtype.

9) Odd alignment of Folger's car in Cielo parking area.

Looking at the many available aerial photos of Cielo after the murders, I notice Abigail's Firebird parked considerably further away from the fence than Jay's Porsche. The fence I refer to here is the wood rail fence that separates the parking area from the front lawn. Why?

10) The state of the porch lights on front porch on the night of 8-9 Aug.

Looking at a photo of Roman in Life magazine on the Cielo porch a week after the murders, and I see one of the carriage lights on either side of the front door is burned out. Susan Atkins said that after turning out the lights inside the house, there was enough light coming in the windows from outside to carry out their attack. Makes one wonder if one of those lights was burned out on August 8th. Perhaps those lights were left on for a week post murders, and one of them burned out in that time.

11) The mystery of the dog that did not bark.

Christopher, Rudi Altobelli's Weimaraner, was let out by Bill Garretson, ostensibly unattended. Susan Atkins says she saw a "hunting dog" looking in at her while in the house. I believe this is a true statement, and I believe she saw Christopher. My question is: if Christopher was on the lawn during the attacks, did Tex or Patricia encounter him? How did Christopher make it back to the guesthouse on his own, and unhurt, if he was in the presence of armed killers. It is known that Christopher could sometimes be a mean dog, and at one time even bit Rudi. One would think that he would have barked wildly, and perhaps try to attack at least Tex, Patricia, or even Linda.

I'll try to develop new articles, each of which focuses on one or more of the anomalies. I invite other readers to do the same. As each anomaly is addressed in an article I'll modify the master list to show that it has been covered. 

What I may do is to go back to this list, and modify it, adding a hypertext link to the new article that deals with the anomaly in greater depth. The list could then become a sort of reference work with pointers toward supporting (or at least expanded) details.

The Episode Where Mr. X Says He Sold Owsley LSD to Charlie for a Dollar a Tab

And partnered with Charlie in drug ventures. I can't even with this dude anymore. 

Owsley acid was free and not around for as long as X thinks. His timeline is off. My basic research process is once I catch someone in one lie, they remain a liar. 

Anecdotally, I also know LSD cost a buck a hit in bulk in the Midwest during the 90's. Often, the price point was at fifty cents per. At least learn the numbers, X.  

Whatever. The greatest hits regurgitation of everything you ever read in Manson continues here. You'll love it if your name is Dupey McDuperson and you have time for an old man's bullshit stories. I can't wait until we know who this cat is for real. 

Owsley on his way to meet X, Chuck Sommers, and Sonny B.